Kyron's General Discussion Thread for 2012-13

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Mollyandme

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~bbm

Attempted hits are never, ever prosecuted without direct evidence that the person who solicited the hit did in fact solicit it and intended to pay for it. There's ALWAYS some type of recording or writing required. That's because the whole point is prosecuting a solicited a crime that never happened. You need irrefutable proof of the solicitation b/c there is no crime and no body. Similar to prosecuting prostitution. You have to get the person to specifically offer money for sex. And it has to be unambiguous, which is why most people soliciting online or in other media refer to "donations" or call themselves "escorts."

That's why LE did what they did with the landscaper. If his word were enough, they would have prosecuted. It wouldn't be, so they couldn't. They had to get her on tape essentially admitting it. They couldn't. So no prosecution. Has no bearing on whether it actually happened. And, for the same reason, has no bearing on whether there's a continuing RO. Especially given the passage of time and change in proximity, etc.

jmo


thank you for your post. i appreciate everyones feedback. this makes a lot of sense, thank you :) excellent point
 

Mollyandme

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Actually the MFH doesn't even figure into my thoughts about Terri's guilt in Kyron's disappearance. The biggest reasons she looks guilty are her proximity to the child directly before he disappeared, her behavior directly after he disappeared, and her willingness to give up her own baby to avoid talking to LE about the disappearance. And IMO that's what "ruined her life".

In any case, was LE supposed to have hired an actor to play the part of the landscaper who told them about the MFH plot?

excellent points Ami. these are all the reasons i thought she was involved initially too, i still have a hard time getting past them. i think im back to sitting on the fence after everyones thoughtful responses to my post the other day lol. that's the beauty of websleuths, the thoughtful and healthy discussions that keep us thinking and keeping Kyron in our minds and hearts.
 

Mollyandme

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I also respect your opinion. I only have a problem with people making comments about the victims in the case that directly contradicts the evidence. And even still, it's not because I don't think they care about Kyron, IMO it's a different issue entirely operating there. If there was evidence, or even a likely possibility but no "direct" evidence, then it would feel productive and beneficial to talk about it.

In your scenario, that someone else who either hasn't been checked out at all because LE doesn't know about his existence or who has been checked out but critical info overlooked - that to me wouldn't be unlikely, because it doesn't contradict the facts that we do know. Is that too many negatives? lol I mean that I can see how that scenario would fit.

After all this time, although I believe TMH knows what happened and that's why she's given up her child and freedom, a scenario in which someone else did the actual grabbing would still make sense to me. I don't rule it out in the least, and that scenario would also explain a lot of holes. However I still believe that TMH knows at least part of what happened to him.


sorry in advance for hijacking the thread this morning, this has been my first time coming back to read after my long post the other day so i wanted to make sure i addressed all my responses.

i firmly agree one billion percent that Kaine and Desiree are victims of Kyron's disapperance and have the utmost respect for them. I find it upsetting when they are talked down on. I think LE has been abundantly clear that the only family member who hasn't been cleared is TMH so i just cannot understand or wrap my mind around theories that Kaine could have some involvement. As critical as I have been of LE in this case, I have to believe that the first thing they did was try to rule out immediate family members, and it's clear they successfully were able to do that for everyone but TMH.
 

Karmady

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Entrapment is illegal. LE cannot do that

Are you talking about putting a wire on the landscaper? If so, they can do it.

The State's evidence showed that an informant apprised the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI) that appellant had requested his assistance in arranging for a hired killer to murder appellant's wife. During a subsequent meeting between the informant and a GBI agent, the informant telephoned appellant and told him that he had found a hit man, but that the hit man insisted upon a personal meeting before accepting a contract to murder appellant's wife. Appellant agreed to the meeting and, within the hour, he met with a GBI agent posing as the hit man. During the course of this meeting, which was secretly taped, appellant agreed to pay the GBI agent $12,000 if his wife was murdered on that same day. Appellant assured the GBI agent that his wife would be at home and he gave the GBI agent a cash deposit of $1,000, a key to the house, and a map. Appellant also discussed details of the way in which the crime was to be committed, indicating that he "need[ed] it to look like a burglary or rape or whatever." Appellant also made arrangements that the balance of $11,000 would be paid within 60 days. At the close of the conversation, appellant was placed under arrest.
Appellant testified that the idea of having a hit man murder his wife was first suggested by the informant. He did not, however, give
any additional testimony indicating how he was "induced" into following that suggestion due to the employment of undue persuasion, incitement, or deceitful means by either the informant or the GBI agent who taped appellant's solicitation to commit murder."`Entrapment exists where the idea and the intention to commit the act originate with a police officer, who, by undue persuasion and deceitful means, induces the defendant to violate the law. But there is no entrapment where the officer merely furnishes an opportunity to a defendant who is ready to commit the offense.' [Cit.]" Huskey v. State, 139 Ga.App. 752, 753 (1) (229 S.E.2d 547) (1976).


http://www.leagle.com/decision/1989852190GaApp662_1590
 

human

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Karmady--i am very familiar with this as my neighbor was arrested for hiring a hit man to off his wife. The hit man went to LE and was wired so they could get evidence . My neighbor offered the money, etc and was arrested.

On posts up above, posters are saying that LE set up the whole hit man thing and it was fake.

Here is the definition of entrapment. LE cannot make up a fake crime and get you to buy into it. That is entrapment. LE simply could not get the verification for the MFH, just as you posted awhile back here. Because she is not arrested does not mean it is not true!
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment"]Entrapment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 

Knox

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BBM. The actual point in time that Kyron "disappeared" remains unknown so it is impossible to prove anyone's alibi other than Desiree because she lived and worked so far away. Have LE cleared Kaine or anyone else? I've never believed the murder for hire plot. I believe it was a LE tactic to drive a wedge and it worked.
JMO

I disagree. There is a window of time in which he disappeared.

8:45 a.m. Terri Horman leaves after watching Kyron walk toward his classroom after touring the science fair.
9 a.m. Kyron is reportedly seen by a student near the south entrance of the school, according to Sheriff Dan Staton, who says that was the last time the boy was seen. Multnomah County authorities later backtrack on that statement.
10 a.m. Classes begin.
At some point, Kyron's homeroom teacher, Kristina Porter, reports him absent.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_chronology_of_eve.html

I would imagine attendance is taken/recorded shortly after class begins. Miss Porter marked him absent at that time. So regardless of when attendance is reported to the admin office, the key point is he was marked absent at the very beginning of the school day.

Kaine was at work, period.
 

gwenabob

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Terri is showing all the signs of deep depression from the loss of her daughter. But also, it takes a ridiculous amount of money to get your hair colored and cut at a salon (at least to me, maybe not to richer folks), and she has no source of income. I'm sure she doesn't want to burden her parents with that cost.

I don't understand why she still hasn't received spousal support. She contributed to that household too and they were a family. I don't think that she can work anywhere in public due to the danger. Some people have openly posted that someone should kill her.

Actually, she did not contribute much. And I might ask, why isn't she paying child support. She is a parent and should help support her child. Maybe one washes the other. Also, how do we know whether or not she is getting spousal support?
 

greenpalm

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Actually, she did not contribute much. And I might ask, why isn't she paying child support. She is a parent and should help support her child. Maybe one washes the other. Also, how do we know whether or not she is getting spousal support?

At this point, they're not divorced. Can those things be arranged prior to going through the legal proceedings of the divorce? I wouldn't think so. That's probably part of the reasoning behind the courts allowing the divorce to proceed in spite of repeated requests of the criminal investigators to forstall it further. All those decisions are at a standstill.
 

ami

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Do we know what comes next as far as trial or hearing dates?
 

La Louve

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This article (http://www.kgw.com/news/Hearing-today-in-Horman-divorce-case-227238101.html) concludes with the following:

"However, the judge told Terri that she must appear for a deposition taken by Kaine's lawyers. He said a prosecutor for the district attorney’s office would not be allowed to attend that deposition. Indeed, the DA’s office said it had no interest in the divorce."

So it sounds like the next event will be when TH is deposed by KH's attorneys.
 

daisy7

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A Multnomah County judge Friday afternoon is expected to hear the state's formal motion asking to intervene in the pending divorce and child custody case between Kaine Horman and his estranged wife, Terri Moulton Horman.

Multnomah County prosecutors had sought to limit the areas of questioning for Kaine Horman, the father of missing Kyron Horman. Lawyers for Terri Horman have argued that county prosecutors should have no standing in the case, not even in a limited sense as the district attorney's office is seeking.

(snip)

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/..._to_hear_more_arguments_i.html#incart_m-rpt-2
 

Tink56

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This article (http://www.kgw.com/news/Hearing-today-in-Horman-divorce-case-227238101.html) concludes with the following:

"However, the judge told Terri that she must appear for a deposition taken by Kaine's lawyers. He said a prosecutor for the district attorney’s office would not be allowed to attend that deposition. Indeed, the DA’s office said it had no interest in the divorce."

So it sounds like the next event will be when TH is deposed by KH's attorneys.

I am a little slow, but "reading between the lines" it appears Terri sidestepped the psychological evaluation...????

True???? (I hope not!!)
 

La Louve

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I am a little slow, but "reading between the lines" it appears Terri sidestepped the psychological evaluation...????

True???? (I hope not!!)

My recollection is that your assumption is correct.

Just reported on KATU:

Divorce trial set for January 2nd, 2014.

Temporary parenting time/support hearing scheduled for December 19 and 20, 2013.

Fully custody hearing set for June 11-13, 2014 (psychologist needs until May to complete the evaluation)

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Terr...ing-time-and-temporary-support-231215911.html
 

Knox

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In other action Friday, the judge denied the state's motion to intervene in the case. Multnomah County District Attorney Rod Underhill, in court papers, sought to intervene to preserve "the integrity of an ongoing criminal investigation'' into Kyron's disappearance.

"To have the state intervene as a party creates all kinds of issues and problems the state does not want,'' the judge said.

Yet Kantor said he would continue to allow input from the district attorney's office from time to time, adding that the state has a "very significant interest here.''

According to an affidavit filed in court by Don Rees, a Multnomah County chief deputy district attorney, a grand jury convened to investigate Kyron's disappearance "has recently been extended by order of the court for another term of six months.''

"While the case has yet to be resolved, the investigation is currently active and the grand jury continues to receive evidence and consider the testimony of witnesses presented by the Multnomah County District Attorney's Office,'' Rees wrote Oct. 28.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/..._allows_horman_divorce_tr.html#incart_m-rpt-2
 

keeponsearching

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Thinking of Kyron. I really wish he would come home. I sent my son who is now in 3rd grade to kindergarten that fall after Kyron disappeared, and again my daughter went through kindergarten and is now in 1st grade. Kryon you are so missed, time for you to come home!
 

human

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MyBelle

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Now I'm confused. Earlier you were saying that you believe that LE lied about the MFH plot as a strategy but now you're saying that you believe there is a witness? If there was a witness saying that Terri hired him, it doesn't mean that the MFH thing happened for sure as the witness may have been lying or mistaken but it also means that LE did not make the plot up for tactical reasons (unless they told the witness to lie?but surely LE encouraging perjury would be somewhat illegal?). If LE believed a witness who was lying it doesn't mean that LE lied, it means they were wrong.

I do not believe LE ever found the landscaper credible. The guy came to them only AFTER Kyron disappeared which was many months after the so-called MFH offer was supposedly extended by Terri.

I believe LE lied about it to Kaine and Desiree in order to drive a wedge between Terri and Kaine/Desiree and it worked.

I haven't followed this case as closely as some of you and if LE has publicly cleared anybody as a suspect, I'd love to see a link.

JMO
 
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