LA - Mickey Shunick, 21, Lafayette 19 May 2012 - #26

[Isabelle]

I was talking to a man who has taught martial arts for something like 20 years. His opinion was that these limited-time self defense courses are of little value when a small woman is attacked by a 200 lb. man, for instance.

Some 200 lb men are probably out of shape and wimpy. A 200 lb man can't handle a frontal knee slam any better than a 145 lb man or any other for that matter. It is also in knowing about pressure points that if punched well enough could render an attacker unconscious. I love my kubaton! I don't care that it's illegal. An elementary pencil (fat one) would make a really good kubaton and that would be legal!

 

[slowlybutshelly]

I think that's probably true, but they will probably also talk about personal safety and offer some practical advice about how to keep yourself safe. There are many things a person can do to reduce her risk of being attacked or targeted.

I disagree. I went to a class for two hours and learned more in those two hrs than I ever had before (until now). I plan to keep going back. I almost lost 3 immediate family members in the last 2 years; and that realization hit me hard. There will be a day when I will no longer be able to rely on having family members to list as emergency contacts. I would like to think non family (friends) would let me add them to a contact list or that my place of work will protect me; but I am fast realizing I AM ON MY OWN.

And the fact is, I probably I have been long before now and just not realized it. So wakening up to reality is like a JOLT of lightening to me.

All self defense classes will help and cannot hurt.

 

[who knew?]

I don't think anyone is insulting anyone else's home. Unfortunately, the world isn't the same place it was 50 or 60 years ago. When I was a kid I rode my bike everywhere - library, swimming pool, day or night. I went away to college and when I went home over summer break, I took off walking late one night, just because I liked walking when it was cool. Let's just say I realized that night that we were no longer in the 50's and 60's. It's just a fact that we are not as safe as we used to be. The world has changed - I don't understand why but I'm sure someone on WS could enlighten us. I compare it to the old biblical days when evil was rampant and the earth was destroyed by water. (I realize some people consider this fairy tale - others believe.) The economy is bad, and it seems like a lot more crime happens when so many people are out of work.

I try to teach my grandchildren how to be safe. Protecting them from the knowledge does not help; scaring them does not help. They need information and confidence because, these days, I don't believe ANY neighborhood is 100% safe. Crime happens everywhere.

 

[A.C.I]

I was talking to a man who has taught martial arts for something like 20 years. His opinion was that these limited-time self defense courses are of little value when a small woman is attacked by a 200 lb. man, for instance.

The amount of force required to shatter a knee cap is about 20lbs. The nose, collar bone, or other small bones in and around the head...maybe 7lbs of force. The pressure required to dislodge an eye, or crush a windpipe...minimal. Probably equal force to crushing a soda can. All well within the range of what a female, or even a child can do. So it doesn't matter if you're 200 lbs or 500lbs. You're going down if any of these things happen to you. The key is learning to grapple, which is the one useful thing you learn in self defense classes. How to escape various holds easily, protecting your head so you aren't knocked out and keeping your opponents arms locked up so they cant beat on you until you get the opening to attack a vital target (eyes, throat, balls, knee caps etc.)

Also, everything around you is a weapon. Your keys, your purse, a loose piece of concrete or rock on the ground, some gravel or dirt....really anything

And if all else fails, bite their ****ing face off. We are animals. Embrace that when it's a fight for survival

The key is knowing that you have to fight for your life and NOT stop. Dont get it in your head that "well maybe they'll let me go". From the get-go, never stop fighting.

 

[slowlybutshelly]

----------------

Thank you for showing two contrasting outcomes for persons with the martial arts training. I know these cases well; one difference is that Meredith either complied because of the ATM card story, or was forced into the vehicle. Specialists will tell you that once a victim goes from crime scene (1) - in this case the walking path, to crime scene (2) - the vehicle, the control has shifted.

http://crime.about.com/b/2008/03/24/meredith-emerson-fought-hard-to-survive.htm

He said he calmed her down by telling her that all he wanted was her credit card and PIN number.

He finally managed to get her back down the trail and he put her and her dog Ella into his van. For the next three days, Emerson bought herself time over the next three days by giving Hilton the wrong PIN numbers.
--------

Also, I agree with the poster above, who said smaller women could be more easily overpowered. I believe the woman who escaped Gardner had a larger frame, and could fight him off more effectively.

I do not understand how this girl Meredith ended up on a hiking trail side by side haring an outing experience with a potential murderer? Did she know him from before? I find it hard to believe she would befriend someone on the trail; she must have felt secure with her dog.

Are our animals ever taught to defend us in self defense classes also.

 

[concentric]

Thank you both for these posts! I have to be honest - even though I know that self-defense techniques have the potential to save my life, I don't know whether or not I could follow through with hurting someone with my bare hands. First off - I'm not very strong, second off, I can't stand the thought of hurting someone. In the face of danger, that's crazy right?So Towerguy thank you for pointing out that we need to come to terms with what we're willing to do.

We are a southern, gun-toting, military, NRA kind of a family. My husband and boys have quite the array of guns, and my kids have all been trained from a very young age on gun safety. I am the only female in our house, (except for my dog and a few cats) and I am a bit terrified of guns.

But I would MUCH rather get a concealed weapons permit and carry a handgun for protection than do hand-to-hand combat.

Who knows what Mickey had the opportunity to do - there are so many scenarios. She could have been tasered, or she could have put a serious hurtin' on her attacker(s)...no way to know at this point. But I do think it is important (especially as women) that we are mentally prepared for situations. Because clearly...they do happen.

--------------

The man who is an expert in martial arts also said that it is very important for women to be fit and strong in addition to training, so that the self-defense stuff becomes second nature, and will immediately kick in. He also said that he personally carries a firearm. JMO - If at all possible, don't place yourself in a dangerous situation to begin with. Sad, but true. For example, no matter how independant minded a woman is, it's not safe to go jogging on an isolated path even during the day, or ride your bike in the early hours of the morning.

 

[slowlybutshelly]

Yes, but another local yesterday told me there is a lawyers office there and they often work day and night; he is not surprised if that blue car was one of them.

 

[rotten dingo]

Not saying it's her fault at all, and do not mean to sound sexist but she would have known the risk of being a young female alone at night in that part of town. It's not that she should be blamed for having that freedom, but the reality is it immediately puts her in the cross hairs of a certain type of individual.

rsbm.
There are umpteen more pages in this particular thread as I read this, so I apologize if someone else has voiced this sentiment. As an adult, I see your point. When I was her age, and even quite a bit younger, I pretty much thought I was invincible. Or, just didn't think about safety at all. I did all kinds of things that I would never do now, because I didn't think about the dangers. If she really carried mace, she may have felt she could defend herself if some bad situation did present itself. Also, by the time I was her age, (and long before that!) I would not have really cared what my family thought I should or should not do; I'd do it if I wanted to. I personally don't see anything unusual in this, really. Regardless, IMO, no situation or location gives one person the right to harm another. I'm not implying you said this, just throwing that out there
On a related note, they (scholarly types) say lack of good judgment and inability to clearly foresee possible consequences in teen years and early 20's is due to the under-development of the prefrontal cortex. I wish I had known this when I was a teen. I would have used it as an excuse for my often bad behavior
http://www.hhs.gov/opa/familylife/t...olescent_brain/Development/prefrontal_cortex/

 

[Foxfire]

I was talking to a man who has taught martial arts for something like 20 years. His opinion was that these limited-time self defense courses are of little value when a small woman is attacked by a 200 lb. man, for instance.

concentric, thanx for sharing and I agree.

In many cases the victim is overpowered due to physical size, number of abductors, or simply by a rouse. The one common denominator is that the abductor/s usually has the element of surprise over the victim/s, and many times armed with a firearm or knife.

Many times, a false sense of security may negate obvious safety precautions & awareness normally practiced, due to over confidence, imo.

Self defenses course are an excellent tool in abduction prevention, only when combined with other awareness and other preventive measures.

 

[saralsim]

You misunderstood me. I said that to me, the area does not look any different than the residential areas that surround other LA universities. I say that, because I went to college in Monroe, Baton Rouge and Hammond, LA - and I lived in Lafayette for a while as well too. I wasn't being emotional, sentimental, or trying to change your opinion or perspective - I was only sharing my own opinion, which is that I consider the neighborhood in question to be representative of many neighborhoods surrounding college campuses in Louisiana. My opinion.

Saralsim: What would make you think I'm comparing this Lafayette area with anything regarding campuses in Louisianna? I am looking at it without emotional sentimentality, from an entirely different geographic perspective, and from a very macro level. And my opinion stands--->but posted only to remind people to be safe.

 

[Isabelle]

OT but significant: 2 POI's in Jaren Lockhart case arrested and in custody!

 

[Isabelle]

The amount of force required to shatter a knee cap is about 20lbs. The nose, collar bone, or other small bones in and around the head...maybe 7lbs of force. The pressure required to dislodge an eye, or crush a windpipe...minimal. Probably equal force to crushing a soda can. All well within the range of what a female, or even a child can do. So it doesn't matter if you're 200 lbs or 500lbs. You're going down if any of these things happen to you. The key is learning to grapple, which is the one useful thing you learn in self defense classes. How to escape various holds easily, protecting your head so you aren't knocked out and keeping your opponents arms locked up so they cant beat on you until you get the opening to attack a vital target (eyes, throat, balls, knee caps etc.)

Also, everything around you is a weapon. Your keys, your purse, a loose piece of concrete or rock on the ground, some gravel or dirt....really anything

And if all else fails, bite their ****ing face off. We are animals. Embrace that when it's a fight for survival

The key is knowing that you have to fight for your life and NOT stop. Dont get it in your head that "well maybe they'll let me go". From the get-go, never stop fighting.

I often carry my keys with the ends sticking out between my fingers while holding my hand in a fist.

 

[concentric]

The amount of force required to shatter a knee cap is about 20lbs. The nose, collar bone, or other small bones in and around the head...maybe 7lbs of force. The pressure required to dislodge an eye, or crush a windpipe...minimal. Probably equal force to crushing a soda can. All well within the range of what a female, or even a child can do. So it doesn't matter if you're 200 lbs or 500lbs. You're going down if any of these things happen to you. The key is learning to grapple, which is the one useful thing you learn in self defense classes. How to escape various holds easily, protecting your head so you aren't knocked out and keeping your opponents arms locked up so they cant beat on you until you get the opening to attack a vital target (eyes, throat, balls, knee caps etc.)

Also, everything around you is a weapon. Your keys, your purse, a loose piece of concrete or rock on the ground, some gravel or dirt....really anythingAnd if all else fails, bite their ****ing face off. We are animals. Embrace that when it's a fight for survival

The key is knowing that you have to fight for your life and NOT stop. Dont get it in your head that "well maybe they'll let me go". From the get-go, never stop fighting.

-----------
Great advice. Martial Arts guy said that women need to use the weapons they have with them, or can find around them.

Here's a good one: hand weights

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

You misunderstood me. I said that to me, the area does not look any different than the residential areas that surround other LA universities. I say that, because I went to college in Monroe, Baton Rouge and Hammond, LA - and I lived in Lafayette for a while as well too. I wasn't being emotional, sentimental, or trying to change your opinion or perspective - I was only sharing my own opinion, which is that I consider the neighborhood in question to be representative of many neighborhoods surrounding college campuses in Louisiana. My opinion.

It's real simple---since we haven't heard from L.E. much regarding possible safety issues in Lafayette (or perhaps I missed all the news conferences by Lafayette L.E. ?), I want people to not think so warm and fuzzy about the area and be very careful. Be safe. I think it's good that L.E. is offering courses for women in self-defense but I would like them to be more pro-active about policing/enforcement. Perhaps they were pre-occupied? Just my 2 cents.

 

[nursebeeme]

I do not understand how this girl Meredith ended up on a hiking trail side by side haring an outing experience with a potential murderer? Did she know him from before? I find it hard to believe she would befriend someone on the trail; she must have felt secure with her dog.

Are our animals ever taught to defend us in self defense classes also.

bbm: absolutely not!

You can read about the case here
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=135"]Gary M Hilton - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

back to Mickey....

 

[Foxfire]

I do not understand how this girl Meredith ended up on a hiking trail side by side haring an outing experience with a potential murderer? Did she know him from before? I find it hard to believe she would befriend someone on the trail; she must have felt secure with her dog.

Are our animals ever taught to defend us in self defense classes also.

slowlybutshelly, Meredith's dog Ella was a rescue black lab & only a puppy. She now weighs 80 lbs. & resides in CO with MHE's parents. Although Meredith possessed great instincts, she held the belief that most of humanity are good & other folks with dogs, had only good intentions. Her abductor; GMH/SK, also had a dog; Dandy/irish setter.

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/the-mystery-on-blood-mountain-part-1/6wevjqz

The Mystery on Blood Mountain, Part 1
Aug. 27: Hiker Meredith Emerson goes missing on Georgia's Blood Mountain on New Year's Day 2008. Law enforcement officers become concerned after finding a police baton with some her possessions on a trail. Dateline NBC's Dennis Murphy reports.

 

[concentric]

The amount of force required to shatter a knee cap is about 20lbs. The nose, collar bone, or other small bones in and around the head...maybe 7lbs of force. The pressure required to dislodge an eye, or crush a windpipe...minimal. Probably equal force to crushing a soda can. All well within the range of what a female, or even a child can do. So it doesn't matter if you're 200 lbs or 500lbs. You're going down if any of these things happen to you. The key is learning to grapple, which is the one useful thing you learn in self defense classes. How to escape various holds easily, protecting your head so you aren't knocked out and keeping your opponents arms locked up so they cant beat on you until you get the opening to attack a vital target (eyes, throat, balls, knee caps etc.)
Also, everything around you is a weapon. Your keys, your purse, a loose piece of concrete or rock on the ground, some gravel or dirt....really anything

And if all else fails, bite their ****ing face off. We are animals. Embrace that when it's a fight for survival

The key is knowing that you have to fight for your life and NOT stop. Dont get it in your head that "well maybe they'll let me go". From the get-go, never stop fighting.

---------------
I took some courses in grappling--is Jiu Jitsu the only grappling methodology?

 

[A.C.I]

---------------
I took some courses in grappling--is Jiu Jitsu the only grappling methodology?

No, but it's by far the best IMO. Another good one is KFM. It uses a lot of the ideas of Jiu Jitsu mixed with pure street fighting experience and methods. Lots of holds, chokes, headbutts, elbows, and knees. They even have biting and eye-gouging thrown in there. It's basically meant to maim your opponent.

But a good core knowledge of Jiu Jitsu basics is invaluable IMO

 

[PeggyAnnMcKay]

I disagree. I went to a class for two hours and learned more in those two hrs than I ever had before (until now). I plan to keep going back. I almost lost 3 immediate family members in the last 2 years; and that realization hit me hard. There will be a day will I will no longer be able to rely on having family members to list as emergency contacts. I would like to think non family (friends) would let me add them to a contact list or that my place of work will protect me; but I am fast realizing I AM ON MY OWN.

And the fact is, I probably I have been long before now and just not realized it. So wakening up to reality is like a JOLT of lightening to me.

All self defense classes will help and cannot hurt.

bbm

Shelly I don't know that we can rely on other people to protect us, but we can certainly take measures and precautions to protect ourselves. The self defense class you took is a great example.

There is evil in this world, but we can't let fear paralyze us and keep us from living our lives. We can live purposefully and carefully, we can keep in touch with family members and friends, and we can use common sense when going about our day-to-day lives.

 

[A.C.I]

bbm

Shelly I don't know that we can rely on other people to protect us, but we can certainly take measures and precautions to protect ourselves. The self defense class you took is a great example.

There is evil in this world, but we can't let fear paralyze us and keep us from living our lives. We can live purposefully and carefully, we can keep in touch with family members and friends, and we can use common sense when going about our day-to-day lives.

Well said