Lawmaker works to make bestiality illegal in Florida

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ITA zadari, it is weird and I will go so far as to say sick, gross, disgusting and a perversion against nature, but until we can look it in the eye and call a spade a spade, the lawmakers can't get the recognition and backing they need to put the laws in place to help stop it. There are many sick and gross things going on out there that people don't want to look at or acknowledge because it ruins their day or is a mood killer. We want to be happy and believe that people are essentially good and that "Life is Good" and looking at this crap can be profoundly depressing. But so long as it is allowed to continue existing in the shadows because we are hesitant to drag it out into the light, animals and as Missizzy says children will continue to be abused, degraded, traumatized and traded like commodities. Because these things DO go hand in hand. And animals can't tell you "that bad man touched me"........much like small children. :Bennymonkey:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...iled-to-pass-a-law-banning-bestiality/1092905
Why the state Legislature failed to pass a law banning bestiality
By Cristina Silva, Times/Herald Tallahassee Bureau
In Print: Thursday, May 6, 2010

~BBM
Lawmakers said they didn't want to be accused of wasting time addressing a rare crime when Floridians needed them to help create jobs. They also didn't want to debate the icky subject in public meetings occasionally frequented by children.
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And yet the children are the ones who will ultimately be impacted by the failure to debate this "icky subject". :twocents:

A 1971 Florida Supreme Court decision struck down a law written in 1868 that banned animal bestiality on the grounds that is was too vague.
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They must prove the suspect violated Florida's animal cruelty law, which prohibits tormenting or hurting an animal.
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A separate bill that addressed only animal bestiality never made it to the House floor.

Rep. Mary Brandenburg, D-West Palm Beach, summed up the topic's unpopularity: "It is yucky."
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I absolutely have no words. I just cannot wrap my mind around any of this let alone the act itself. :sick:
 
Pocono Sleuther said:
Ok, seriously here...where the heck are all of these sickos coming from? Is anyone else surprised this is only illegal in 34 states? Plus why would this be punishable by death yet we are, imo, letting pedo. off with a slap?

I am with GlitchWizard. What is this world coming to?
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Sex with animals is not new. Most people I know who grew up on farms knew boys who tried it.
 
eileenhawkeye said:
It's nice to know that gay marriage is illegal in Florida, but bestiality isn't. :banghead:
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I know your heart's in the right place, but I wish you hadn't made that comparison. Rick Santorum and his ilk are always available to go there.

Without the benefit of any personal experience, I believe most sex with animals is experimentation by boys during puberty. It's relatively rare for the fetish to survive into adulthood.

I think we should keep that in mind before we make it a capital crime.
 
Nova said:
I know your heart's in the right place, but I wish you hadn't made that comparison. Rick Santorum and his ilk are always available to go there.

Without the benefit of any personal experience, I believe most sex with animals is experimentation by boys during puberty. It's relatively rare for the fetish to survive into adulthood.

I think we should keep that in mind before we make it a capital crime.
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Of course they'll go there, dumb as it is, since an animal can't say, "Well, I love humans and would love to boink you" and two adults can indeed give consent.

Anyway, I find it curious as to why outlawing this is so unpopular? To me, it's an animal cruelty issue.
 
reportertype said:
Of course they'll go there, dumb as it is, since an animal can't say, "Well, I love humans and would love to boink you" and two adults can indeed give consent.

Anyway, I find it curious as to why outlawing this is so unpopular? To me, it's an animal cruelty issue.
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I agree: it's an animal cruelty issue and should be illegal.

My sense from the articles linked above is that a bill outlawing it keeps getting shoved aside because (a) actually incidents are rare (as far as anyone knows); and (b) lawmakers are uncomfortable talking about it.

The latter is why I say let's forget the sexual issue and focus on the cruelty to the animal.
 
When I did my research for the Douglas Spink thread, I was actually quite disturbed that the stereotype of teen boys experimenting with bestiality (a common one) didn't pan out. Zoophilia is a thriving "lifestyle". For those truly wanting to know more about it, just check out Beastforum. It is not illegal to look at the forum (I checked) and because it is based somewhere in Europe, they are allowed to post things not allowed in the US.

There are categories for health issues, finding partners and animals, pointers on filming, information concerning film and literature, etc. There's also a busy forum for stories and erotica and one for photos (which I did not click on). A quick google check on the subject of zoophilia and the law will bring up many articles and allow those interested to have a window into an entirely unique lifestyle. And I want to assure you that it's highly unlikely that you will accidentally stumble upon any images. Those are kept under wraps and one must look for them. Even Scientific American ran an article last year on the growing "trend":

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=animal-lovers-zoophiles-make-scient-2010-03-24

Many people think that Spink is actually one of the people mentioned in the article and one of the commenters.

IMO, there's simply no way to remove the issue of sexuality from this crime. Child sexual abuse and elder sexual abuse and rape are simply not "assault" issues. They each contain a sexual component and the issue of inability to consent and control. The same holds true for animals. Being that studies show that many many killers and psychopaths start out by both torturing and sexually abusing animals, I believe that lawmakers are forced to confront this issue from both angles....cruelty to animals and sexual abuse of animals. In my mind, they are two very different crimes which often, but not always, overlap.

Concerning the connection to child sexual abuse and child *advertiser censored*, it seems to come up time after time. I know that I've personally started many many threads which link the crimes together. I just did an archive search for the words "child *advertiser censored* dog" and came up with three pages of threads. In running through them, I see many many cases where the crime specifically involved the filming of children having sexual contact with dogs for filming purposes.

Personally, I know that I wouldn't have been happy if my children's rapist had merely been convicted of assault charges. They were raped and that's what he was convicted of. Sadly, they were raped after the young man had raped/sexually abused chickens, cats, dogs, and bunnies.

IMO, we cannot ignore the sexual component as much as it makes us uneasy.
 
Seriously? They have to work to make it illegal? Does that mean that they can't all agree on this issue?
 
Nova said:
Without the benefit of any personal experience, I believe most sex with animals is experimentation by boys during puberty. It's relatively rare for the fetish to survive into adulthood.

I think we should keep that in mind before we make it a capital crime.
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Perusing the topic on the net should disabuse you of this misconception. This is an industry, and children and animals are being abused and exploited and it needs to STOP.

And I agree with Missizzy. Why let a person such as this off with a simple cruelty to animals charge? Sexual assault is sexual assault. If the shoe fits....
 
 
lovelabs said:
That poor goat. There are certain things that I just can't wrap my brain around this is one of those things. ARGGG
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Ya huh, me neither. I mean how does a person get to this point that they would rather have realtions with a goat than another human being?

I will never, ever again point to my DH across the room and say "that is my old goat over there"!
 
Unfreakingbelievable! I guess I am in a party of one...going back to biblical days when crap like this was punishable by stoning. Innocent animals, innocent children...not a big leap...these peeps are dangerous.
 
I fully realize that most people do NOT want to look at Beastforum so I'll help you out. I have to admit that it's quite disconcerting to know that they track my logging on to their site, although I've never received any emails or spam related to this subject. I've never opened one of the forums and have just looked at the main page. It's actually very similar in format to WS and here's a smattering of sub-groups and forums. I simply cannot believe that these are all teen boys who might be experimenting:

Female home-made bestiality pictures and movies
Male home-made bestiality pictures and movies
Mating pictures and movies
Genitalia pictures and movies
Fan clubs, packs and groups
How-to's, FAQ's and technical help
Zoophilia experiences
Bestiality webcam chatroom (????)
Home-made artwork
Bestiality fantasies (please refrain from under-age stories)
Requests to amateurs
Fall movie archive
Free movies swap shop
Photo swap shop ("tons on new & exciting free photos uploaded daily!!")
Jokes and fun
Furries, Anime, Manga & cartoons
Personal ads & dating:
US (16,743 topics and 115,826 replies)
Europe (8,414 topics and 31,873 replies)
Australia, Asia & Pacific (3,437 topics and 13,457 replies)
Animal sex movies (women and animals)
Animal sex movies (men and animals)
A variety of fetish photos, films and discussions (for which I can't include the titles)
Hardcore non-animal *advertiser censored* movies ("lots of different niches")


There are currently, as I write this, 1717 users on line--835 guests, 813 member and 69 anonymous members. 10 moderators are currently overseeing the site.

"Our members have made a total of 5,958,728 posts
We have 879,391 registered members

Most users ever online was 10,632 on Jun 19 2010, 08:32 PM"


Now, I need to go gently and appropriately cuddle my own special dogs. That site bothers me to no end but I refuse to ignore it as I know in my heart that what is discussed on that forum and what is practiced by many of the posters is illegal and just plain wrong. I'm also very concerned about the different "niches" which are mentioned.
 
What I posted was that I believe bestiality is "relatively rare," i.e., relative to some other fetishes. It's hard to know from a quick internet search how much on-line curiosity translates into actual behavior.

If you look at the numbers Missizzy produced, the average "registered member" at Beastforum has made fewer than 7 posts, so I think a lot of those users come from the idly curious.

It's yet another leap to insist we make sex with animals into one more capital crime "to protect the children." Missizzy's point about sex and control is a good one, but it's not the same as hard data showing that perpetrators commonly move from one to the other.

I have no problem with attaching criminal penalties to beastiality, but we all need to face the fact that in most cases there is no complaining witness and no one to testify at trial.
 
Ick, it is disgusting...for the poor animal who has to submit to the monster of a "human"...

Come on Florida and other states, just make it a felony, don't turn it into a "circus" by shouting for the death penalty to make news.
 
Another thread of possible interest:

WA man arrested in sting/wants to "train" girls to have sex with dogs - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


And an excellent article concerning the difficulties facing legislators concerning outlawing bestiality:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-10-29-tn-beastiality-law_N.htm

"...."We had no idea this sort of thing was happening," said Maury County [TN] Detective Terry Chandler. "This goes on. These people live all across the United States, and they know each other." Washington State is considering a new law that would add bestiality offenses to the sexual offender registry, and Chandler said he would like to see a similar law in Tennessee...."

and

"...It was Rep. Debra Maggart, R-Hendersonville [TN], who pushed to get a bestiality bill on the books. The law makes it a class E felony to engage in sexual activity with an animal, or to help someone else do so, or to allow it to happen on one's property, or to take or possess pictures or videos of such activities, or to advertise, organize or promote that sort of behavior. The law makes exceptions for commercial animal husbandry activities. "You can imagine all the remarks I got," Maggart said. "It sounds funny, until you know what's going on."

Maggart and groups like the Humane Society of the United States point to studies that show the high correlation between sexual abuse of animals and sexual abuse of children. She said she sponsored the bill at the urging of local law enforcement officials.

One study, linked on the Humane Society Web page, found that 96% of juveniles who engaged in sexual abuse of animals also admitted to sex offenses against humans. In another study, some 37% of sexually violent juvenile offenders were found to have a history of animal sexual assault. An FBI study found that serial killers have a high rate of animal sexual abuse as well...."

more at link


And for those interested in some theories about the correlation/connection between child *advertiser censored* and bestiality:

http://twelfthbough.blogspot.com/2010/04/one-tiny-brick-in-wall-of-depravity.html


While looking back at the Douglas Spink thread, I noted that I wrote a post about checking out Beastforum. I even noted just how many visitors were on the forum at 10 am Western time, last year--999. This morning it was 1717 at the same time of day. Must be getting more popular.
 
Fine, fine, the house is on fire! (Actually, surveys on sexuality are notoriously unreliable because people tend to lie and definitions are fuzzy, but never mind.)

Pass all the laws you want. You still have a crime that is hard to detect and very difficult to prosecute because the victim can't make a complaint or testify in court. (Yes, forensic evidence may be left, but without a complainant, how will anyone know to run tests?)
 
Thank you, Nova, that's exactly what I'm trying so hard to do. I don't believe, though, that a Class E felony is a capital crime.

And please keep in mind that quite often we don't have witnesses able to testify ie. in cases involving infants, toddlers, the intellectually and developmentally disabled or with those with dementia. If I remember correctly, the horses at Enumclaw or those with Douglas Spink last year did not have to testify for a conviction.

I have no doubt that some people remain merely on the sidelines, only fantasizing about these acts. However those people also support an industry which, by mere definition, abuses and defiles our animals.

If a "class" of victims depends upon the protection of greater society, I believe we must step up. And I do have to agree with you, that the house, indeed, in on fire.
 
Missizzy said:
Thank you, Nova, that's exactly what I'm trying so hard to do. I don't believe, though, that a Class E felony is a capital crime.

And please keep in mind that quite often we don't have witnesses able to testify ie. in cases involving infants, toddlers, the intellectually and developmentally disabled or with those with dementia. If I remember correctly, the horses at Enumclaw or those with Douglas Spink last year did not have to testify for a conviction.

I have no doubt that some people remain merely on the sidelines, only fantasizing about these acts. However those people also support an industry which, by mere definition, abuses and defiles our animals.

If a "class" of victims depends upon the protection of greater society, I believe we must step up. And I do have to agree with you, that the house, indeed, in on fire.
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I was paraphrasing you about the house, Missizzy. We know a lot of people explore things on the internet that they wouldn't have the nerve or even the inclination to try in public.

But I have no problem with protecting abused animals. And you are right: we don't neglect to make a law just because it will be difficult to prosecute.

ETA: Perhaps one problem in getting a law passed is in defining limits. I've heard of people who get off on seeing women squash bugs with high-heeled shoes. Now I find that creepy, but I don't think we need to protect cockroaches or to support such people in prison. That's just one example.
 
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