Let's talk about the "deer camp"

Discussion in 'Netflix Series: Making A Murderer' started by shadowraiths, Mar 22, 2016.

  1. shadowraiths

    shadowraiths LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special Staff Member Moderator

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    While the "deer camp" is only briefly mentioned in the following 3 trial transcripts:


    I think it is an interesting detail, in that it appears to be fairly secluded... or rather, away from other dwellings, has 3 trailers, and is easily accessible to the Radant Quarry area where the partial pelvic bone was found.

    [​IMG]

    Also, notably, the RAV4 seemed to have gone through some muddy areas. And, of course, there's the headlight damage.

    [​IMG]

    While neither defense, prosecution, or for that matter LEOs, appeared to consider this place, I cannot help but to wonder if this may have been used by Ms. Halbach's killer. That is, Avery or someone else.

    While it is very likely nothing, I thought I would raise it as some food for thought.
     
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  3. ksterling3408

    ksterling3408 New Member

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    Would this be the place where Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey both went hunting? When they were each other's alibi...it seems like I recall that both of them said they were going/had gone hunting that day. Just curious if this "deer camp" in question was their destination.
     
  4. SgtScraps

    SgtScraps New Member

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    I'm not sure if this is where they hunted? If so, it looks like they could access it through the salvage yard and not pass each other on the road which they testified to?
     
  5. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

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    From Day 4 page 77:
    That was a camp that Radandts used. They own most of the land around this area and they used that for deer hunting. It consisted of three mobile homes that they had set up for deer hunting or something of that nature.

    This was not a hunting camp that was used by the Avery's/Tadych's. But I don't think it means that it couldn't have been used. I have not come across anything that indicates it was investigated at all.
     
  6. ZOOL

    ZOOL New Member

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    Neither have I.
    It appears to be a fair distance from SA's garage; and also on a circuitous route. Further, its seclusion and privacy would be tenuous because it belonged to the Radandts.
     
  7. ksterling3408

    ksterling3408 New Member

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    I mentioned in another thread that Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey were each other's alibi...to me, it just seemed curious that they were both "going hunting" the same day, around the same time, and conveniently passed each other and waved. Bobby Dassey was even questioned as to what made him look at the clock at that exact time and specifically remember that detail down to within 10 minutes or so. Then when reading about this deer camp, I was wondering if this was their destination, or if either of them ever did give LE a destination. Just food for thought...
     
  8. Limaes

    Limaes New Member

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    Self deleted...wrong thread

    Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
     
  9. BigCityAccountant

    BigCityAccountant New Member

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    I was at work today on a break when I read this, and I've been dying all day to post on this. Somewhere I read that they did in fact check the deer camp and they found a steak bone there in the burn barrel or trash. I'll have to go back and find out where I saw this one too (Gosh I think I'm getting old because this is the 2nd time today that I had to post I don't remember where I read that)...LOL
     
  10. BigCityAccountant

    BigCityAccountant New Member

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    No, this is not where either went hunting. I do recall that your question was answered in another thread. :)

    By the way--warning this site is addictive. :wagon:
     
  11. BigCityAccountant

    BigCityAccountant New Member

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    It was, they found a steak bone there in the garbage or burn barrel--not sure where I read that...Going back to :lookingitup::findinglink:
     
  12. BigCityAccountant

    BigCityAccountant New Member

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    This was not either's destination. I think your question was answered in the other thread as well. ;)
     
  13. BigCityAccountant

    BigCityAccountant New Member

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    Ok...found it... Transcript Date March 7, 2007.

    35
    1 A. Special Agent Ronald Evan was with me at a couple
    2 points.
    3 Q. And did you have the opportunity to examine other
    4 potential debris locations on that day?
    5 A. Yes, sir, we did.
    6 Q. And what areas -- Did you come to examine an area
    7 that's been referred to as the Radandt deer camp?
    8 A. Yes, sir.
    9 Q. And tell us about your examination of that area.
    10 A. There were a couple burn barrels there. And we
    11 went there with the intent of examining those to
    12 see if there were any items that could be of
    13 significance. So we went through that and the
    14 immediate area around that.
    15 Q. And did you find any items of evidentiary
    16 significance there?
    17 A. As I recall, there was one unburned bone. It
    18 looked like a steak bone that was there, but we
    19 did take that, just in the possibility that it
    20 could be important.
    21 Q. Now, was there another location for one of the
    22 Radandt Sand and Gravel operation that you
    23 examined some debris?
    24 A. I don't recall. I believe it was right at the
    25 trailer, there was a burn barrel there. And it
    36
    1 was around that area that we were looking.
    2 Q. Okay. In terms of your investigation of these
    3 areas and items, you indicate you didn't require
    4 -- excuse me -- you did recover some men's
    5 clothing. If you found anything you thought of
    6 significance, who was your contact with the
    7 Calumet Sheriff's Office for receipt of any
    8 information you determined of evidentiary
    9 significance?
    10 A. That would be Deputy Riemer.
    11 Q. Now, in your examination of the burn barrels, I
    12 think you said your first task in this -- Well,
    13 let me ask you, did you have an opportunity to
    14 investigate or to examine some burn barrels as
    15 part of this?
    16 A. Yes, on Saturday, the 12th, I believe it was.
    17 When I was done at the fire pit at the Avery
    18 property, I came back over to the Sheriff's
    19 Department and there were several 50 gallon
    20 barrels that they asked us to go through.
    21 Q. All right. And tell us about those burn barrels.
    22 A. Those barrels were here at the Sheriff's
    23 Department here in Chilton and Special Agent Evan
    24 and I, along with Deputy Riemer, went to an area
    25 and Deputy Riemer would produce a 50 gallon
    37
    1 barrel and its contents and we would conduct an
    2 examination of it. If we found anything that we
    3 suspected would be potential evidentiary value,
    4 we separated that from the barrel. The barrels
    5 were being retained for evidence. But we
    6 separated out things that might have been
    7 important and set them aside and gave them
    8 directly to Deputy Riemer for preservation.
    9 Q. Now, of those barrels, how many of them did you
    10 actually find anything that had some potential
    11 evidentiary significance?
    12 A. I think only one barrel. We recovered some bone
    13 fragments at the time.
    14 Q. Now, those bone fragments which were recovered,
    15 how did those bone fragments compare with the
    16 fragments that you found that were sifted from
    17 the burn pit itself; was there anything distinct
    18 in your mind about the condition of those
    19 fragments or the size of those fragments compared
    20 to those in the burn pit debris?
    21 A. Yes, the fragmentation that I was finding from
    22 the burn pit was very small. Much of it was --
    23 in some cases was the size of half of your little
    24 fingernail, if you will. Most of the bones were
    25 very fragmented in there. Where the bones that 1 were recovered from that barrel on Saturday, the

    2 burn barrel, they were of larger mass.
    3 Q. All right. In your examination of materials from
    4 the burn barrel, did you find anything such as
    5 rivets, or grommets, or any other articles of
    6 clothing?
     
  14. ksterling3408

    ksterling3408 New Member

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    Bigcityaccountant, thanks for the info! And actually, the other thread was more about their alibis and whether LE checked them out, how solid they were, etc. This thread was more about me asking if the deer camp in question was their destination or if anyone knew anything about where they actually ended up hunting. So two threads along similar lines but having a little bit of a different topic. I read and posted about the deer camp first, which got me to thinking about how they alibied each other, so I posed the question in a new thread just to see what everyone's thoughts were about that. Between the two threads I've gotten lots of info that I was looking for and even more things to ponder :)
     
  15. missy1974

    missy1974 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that in the Summary report http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Summary-Report-on-Homicide-Investigation.pdf on page 15, Jost mentions that he "heard" that Joshua Radandt had checked on his hunting trailers on Monday evening, he saw that there was a large fire burning near SA's property, and the fire was "larger than usual"

    Just brings some more questions. I wonder if there is a statement from Radandt?
     
  16. BigCityAccountant

    BigCityAccountant New Member

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    So, I have some questions regarding the deer camp.

    Why would JR use the quarry road to access his deer camp instead of the more direct route Kuss Road?

    According to trial testimony, there were 5 silt ponds located at JR's main headquarters for their quarry. The dive team couldn't dive 2 of those because there was too much sludge in them. Why was JR & Company allowed to dig up 2 of those ponds while LE watched? After all this was a crime scene. Is is normal operating procedure? Seems like KK mentions this and then moves on rather quickly. Doesn't mention if anything of significance was found.

    ...and going back Why were the men's clothing found on the quarry property never tested or investigated? Seems like a strange place to find men's clothing. I don't have an exact area of where these were found on the quarry property and their distance to or from the ponds. Anyone else find anything on the men's clothing found? Size, color, and type of description other than "men's clothing"??
    Could it be possible any evidence that relates to the men's clothing could have been washed away in the ponds?
     
  17. wasnt_me

    wasnt_me New Member

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    My question about this, if anyone knows, is if they tested the mud on the Rav4 tires.
     
  18. BigCityAccountant

    BigCityAccountant New Member

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    Missy may weigh in here, but to my knowledge the tires were not tested. I'm not sure what that would show. Would you mind sharing your train of thought here? Oh~~and by the way~~:welcome4:
     
  19. wasnt_me

    wasnt_me New Member

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    Yeah.

    I think I've seen cases where they take soil samples and determine where the soil came from. So, thinking about the Quarry, I'm just feeling it ought to have unique sand or something combined in it to determine that the car had to have been back there.

    Because it's so close to that area, and it has mud all over the wheels, it's logical, right?

    Plus, where is all this mud on it coming from? Did it rain before her death or just after?

    To me, the car looks fairly clean on the outside besides the mud. When did she last wash it? Did her family or friends know when she ever went through some mud like that? It might be a long shot that anyone could say that for sure.

    But I'd like to know where this mud came from.

    http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-289-RAV4-Drivers-Exterior.jpg

    http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-30-RAV4-side.jpg

    are there other pics of the right side of this car? I only see pics unobstructed of the driver's side.

    It's pretty thick in this tire:

    http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-32-RAV4-tire.jpg

    So what's the telling us about where the Rav4 has been? Did the police investigate that? I am still at the tip of the iceberg as far as researching, so I apologize if it's been exhausted already.
     
  20. BigCityAccountant

    BigCityAccountant New Member

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    What you are seeing in those photos of the mud seems common to me for the area. Remember this area is rural and most people do not have concrete or asphalt driveways. Most driveways in the area are made with a layer of gravel on top of dirt. That being said, rain, snow and the such sometimes wash out areas in the driveway and I commonly see mud on vehicles in that manner.

    Also regarding your inquiry about the rain. IIRC (Correct me if I'm wrong Missy) I believe it rained on the 5th pretty substantially.

    All great questions!!
     
  21. wasnt_me

    wasnt_me New Member

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    I guess you could be right. I have never been up there, but it just seems like a lot of mud on that car to me, and looking at the area around there, it would be worth it to test the mud on the car against it.

    I saw in one of those videos that SA's truck looked pretty clean. but I'd have to go back and really look. TH's suv seems to sit up high, or is that my imagination? I'm thinking that's why it didn't get more mud up on the doors.
     

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