Lies point us to the truth #2

OldBackstop

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Y'all need to take a break from this.

Wait! JonBenet, hoping to find her Xmas magic unicorn pony gift, starts to unwrap and discovers that Santa was giving her Size 12 Bloomingdale underwear.

She strangles herself.
 

UKGuy

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UKGuy,

Absolutely could be Evan was a scapegoat. But the dna is said to contain another unknown male on the long johns which is still unidentified. Can you share what you know here please?

Rain on my Parade,
An unknown male on the long johns might simply be cross-transfer from Burke attending a sleepover, you need the dna deposit to have thirteen clear points before it can be used.

Meaning is any foreign dna deposited on Burke's long-johns the same as that found on JonBenet's underwear?

Were all the CSI investigators elimated as contributing to the crime-scene? Review the Amanda Knox case to get a feel for what can go wrong, i.e. the foreign dna in JonBenet's underwear has been identified subjectively not on the basis of any dna matching.

So even if DS's dna turned up on the long johns it can be explained away, although in the context it would not be a good look.

Kolar, in his book, was citing more than two sample deposits of foreign dna in JonBenet's underwear, so who selects or rejects what should become a dna profile?

.
 

proust20

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With IDI, what is supposed to have happened that turned the abduction into a murder? This assumes that the killing was unplanned, and that in trying to take JB out of the house they wound up asphyxiating her with the paintbrush ligature after abusing her. The R supporters never fill in the blanks. The WC staging could have helped promote this scenario, but it doesn't. The broken basement window might have been used as evidence of a break-in until John offered his explanation(s).
 

Rain on my Parade

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An unknown male on the long johns might simply be cross-transfer from Burke attending a sleepover?you need the dna deposit to have thirt clear points before it can be used.

I wonder how you come into said dna info. I understand there is also another male’s dna found on the cord. It could have originated from the sale of the item. Why do you think PR purchased this cord? Seems ironic; don’t you think? It reminds me of the person whom wrote the RN, and then returned the sharpie to it’s home. If it was an intruder wouldn’t they take it with them (along with the panties and pink pj bottoms) or just simply lay it down? How many peoples dna were found on the pen?

BPD states they also found dna on the paintbrush as an unknown male. Now this is curious indeed. Why did BPD mention it if the likelihood of anybody else (male) outside the family would have dna on it? Is it all just apart of the coverup? The BPD blundered the investigation. The FBI exited to the left. The DA exonerates the R’s. They lost phone records; they just disappeared. If it was me they’d still have them for what is it 20 years? I wish you were my neighbor and we could have a cup of coffee because you know things that are privy.
 

Sillybilly

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Very sorry, some posts were selected for deletion and a blanket explanation was sent accidentally to members whose posts were simply a response, not the original violation.
 

Rain on my Parade

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The autopsy indicates that JB ate the pineapple around midnight. She was to short to manage getting it from the fridge by herself. The bowl with it had Burke's fingerprints as did the glass of tea next to it. Patsy said that she wouldn't serve it with the type of spoon which was used.

proust20,

I believe the kids ate pineapple closer to the time arriving home. And I don’t think the parents put the kids to bed, before all @#%* broke loose. In MOO, PR was a very controlling mother to JB. They say a picture speaks a thousand words. So I look at the last picture taken of PR and JB, Christmas morning. PR has a death grip on JB forearm. This hold (bruise) appears in other photos of JB; as well. On the 23rd PR told JB to march right back upstairs and take off her makeup for the party. Why when she helped to teach her to be a sexy witch? There is so much dysfunction going on in this house.

I do not feel that the WC setting suggests a kidnapping gone wrong scenario, if that were intended. It doesn't appear haphazard nor thrown together in flight. Rather it seems almost ritualistic, and certainly carefully laid out. There's a striving for an effect that eludes. Why would the kidnapper(s) want to take the wrapped presents? JB is supposed to have been abducted by terrorists! I've no idea what the Rs or LS thought went wrong with the 'abduction'. Team R never fabricated a plausible narrative of the crime.

It looks as though the R’s had to come up with a plot that involved an intruder. So they picked kidnapper. Since this was just mentioned to PR that seems plausible excuse. So she writes the RN, and puts the sharpie in its rightful place.

Since the size 6s and pj bottoms were removed and never found, it's safe to assume that they were incriminating. If BR did so, it could not be because of semen. That leaves blood of which there isn't much at the CS, and which would very difficult to eradicate completely. What would be the source of blood? Or could there have been a potty incident connected with them? Burke could have showered at some point?

There was JB blood found on her sleeve, the nightgown, her panties, and perhaps her pillowcase. We know there was found blood in her vault. She could have been bathed at some point as well.
 

UKGuy

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I wonder how you come into said dna info. I understand there is also another male’s dna found on the cord. It could have originated from the sale of the item. Why do you think PR purchased this cord? Seems ironic; don’t you think? It reminds me of the person whom wrote the RN, and then returned the sharpie to it’s home. If it was an intruder wouldn’t they take it with them (along with the panties and pink pj bottoms) or just simply lay it down? How many peoples dna were found on the pen?

BPD states they also found dna on the paintbrush as an unknown male. Now this is curious indeed. Why did BPD mention it if the likelihood of anybody else (male) outside the family would have dna on it? Is it all just apart of the coverup? The BPD blundered the investigation. The FBI exited to the left. The DA exonerates the R’s. They lost phone records; they just disappeared. If it was me they’d still have them for what is it 20 years? I wish you were my neighbor and we could have a cup of coffee because you know things that are privy.

Rain on my Parade,
The dna info is distributed over all the lab results and documents released by court order.

The dna on the cord could be from a male cashier who handed it over to PR?

The male dna on the paintbrush handle might have arrived when a male at one of Patsy's art classes handled it?

JonBenet attended the White's party so she will have some dna deposits from males she came in contact with.

Here is the issue: some or all of the foreign dna deposited on JonBenet might be degraded, so who selected a sample as representative of the suspect?

BPD tell us about the degraded samples but not about those with complete, sound profiles?

I am currently analysing the dna reports to see if they are consistent. This includes checking who signed the dna profiles off, and if the chain of custody was secure?

Bottom line is, I'm trying to establish that the manner in which the dna sample(s) were processed could amount to staging, even unknowingly by default. Although I reckon a nod and a wink played a part.

i.e. were BPD knowingly involved in tweaking the variables that contributed to the dna profile that was entered into CODIS?

Rather than wade through all the statistics, lab results, etc. It's simpler to read up on the Amanda Knox trial notes paying attention to where the CSI went wrong with respect to the dna.

The allocated forensic geneticist, Dr. Patrizia Stefanoni did not follow the reccomended procedures when analysing the dna sample?

This resulted in Amanda Knox being found guilty.

Now consider the samples found on JonBenet, who sequenced them, what method did they use, who signed the results off, etc.

In other words were the correct procedures applied, and was the chain of custody applied to the results anonymously refereed?

Knowing the answers might tell us why, if there are good male dna profiles found on JonBenet, e.g. BR, DS, etc why they have not been published?


The DA exonerates the R’s. They lost phone records; they just disappeared. If it was me they’d still have them for what is it 20 years? I wish you were my neighbor and we could have a cup of coffee because you know things that are privy.
Yes, coffee would be nice, but there might never be any closure, but if it can be shown that the degraded dna sample(s) have been arrived at using suspect procedures then you might have an answer to why records disappeared and BPD have never released other evidence, e.g. details of the underwear taken from JonBenet's underwear drawer.

.
 

UKGuy

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proust20,

I believe the kids ate pineapple closer to the time arriving home. And I don’t think the parents put the kids to bed, before all @#%* broke loose. In MOO, PR was a very controlling mother to JB. They say a picture speaks a thousand words. So I look at the last picture taken of PR and JB, Christmas morning. PR has a death grip on JB forearm. This hold (bruise) appears in other photos of JB; as well. On the 23rd PR told JB to march right back upstairs and take off her makeup for the party. Why when she helped to teach her to be a sexy witch? There is so much dysfunction going on in this house.



It looks as though the R’s had to come up with a plot that involved an intruder. So they picked kidnapper. Since this was just mentioned to PR that seems plausible excuse. So she writes the RN, and puts the sharpie in its rightful place.



There was JB blood found on her sleeve, the nightgown, her panties, and perhaps her pillowcase. We know there was found blood in her vault. She could have been bathed at some point as well.

Rain on my Parade,
On the 23rd PR told JB to march right back upstairs and take off her makeup for the party. Why when she helped to teach her to be a sexy witch? There is so much dysfunction going on in this house.
BBM: This suggests Patsy knew JonBenet was becoming cognitively confused. For JonBenet the Christmas Party was just another audience to dress up for and impress with her songs and dance routines.

For Patsy the Christmas Party had guests attending who were ignorant over the finer points of pageant routines, So she vetoed the makeup.

Was Patsy worried that some guests might think JonBenet was acting up beyond her years, particularly with the makeup?

This is where JDI pops up, so after Patsy telling LHP about her love life, could be this was never solved and JR looked elsewhere for emotional release, with PR turning a blind eye.

Not saying this is the case, just that some have suggested this as the rationale for JonBenet not being offered any medical attention, and that the original cause was accidental or out of anger, the rest being staging?

.
 

Rain on my Parade

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I am currently analysing the dna reports to see if they are consistent. This includes checking who signed the dna profiles off, and if the chain of custody was secure?

Bottom line is, I'm trying to establish that the manner in which the dna sample(s) were processed could amount to staging, even unknowingly by default. Although I reckon a nod and a wink played a part.

UKGuy,

I’m looking forward to your conclusion!
 

Rain on my Parade

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This is where JDI pops up, so after Patsy telling LHP about her love life, could be this was never solved and JR looked elsewhere for emotional release, with PR turning a blind eye.

Not saying this is the case, just that some have suggested this as the rationale for JonBenet not being offered any medical attention, and that the original cause was accidental or out of anger, the rest being staging?

UKGuy,

This would account for JR or PR covering up for one another. It still could be BR they were covering up for. I just have such a hard time understanding how they could bring themselves to assault and strangle JB = murder and molest her! Yet, this doesn’t explain away the poking train marks on JB.
 

UKGuy

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UKGuy,

I’m looking forward to your conclusion!


Rain on my Parade,
Simple bias can be explained away but not intentional tweaking of the samples.

The latter would strengthen a BDI theory over any other RDI, unless you want to toss in the possibility of BPD corruption?

.
 

UKGuy

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UKGuy,

This would account for JR or PR covering up for one another. It still could be BR they were covering up for. I just have such a hard time understanding how they could bring themselves to assault and strangle JB = murder and molest her! Yet, this doesn’t explain away the poking train marks on JB.

Rain on my Parade,
It could actually be a mixture of both, which would then make a lot of folks happy, i.e. everyone is right?

I go for BDI on the night due to the number of amateurish staging affects. Another aspect is both Patsy and John talking BR out of the case with their version of events, which as you know has been revised continuously since PR made her TV appearance!

Yet the forensic evidence places BR in locations where his parents say he never visited, e.g. breakfast bar, JonBenet's bedroom, Wine-cellar, etc.

Not a good look for BR.

.
 

Rain on my Parade

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Rain on my Parade,
It could actually be a mixture of both, which would then make a lot of folks happy, i.e. everyone is right?

I go for BDI on the night due to the number of amateurish staging affects. Another aspect is both Patsy and John talking BR out of the case with their version of events, which as you know has been revised continuously since PR made her TV appearance!

Yet the forensic evidence places BR in locations where his parents say he never visited, e.g. breakfast bar, JonBenet's bedroom, Wine-cellar, etc.

Not a good look for BR.

.

UKGuy,

It makes more sense that BDI. We have to explain away the evidence connected with him and the wine cellar otherwise.

Although one wonders how JR was cool as a cucumber when the police arrived. And PR peeking through her fingers while her hands are on her face. And doesn’t rush to see her daughter once she is found. Questionable actions by both. Then JR wants to fly the family across state lines almost immediately after finding JB. Leaves one to wonder.
 

Eddie99

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I think there is something to be said about being in control of your emotions.

If I were in the position JR was in (crazy note, incompetent police, not knowing wtf was happening, and having another home) I would have gotten my family the hell out of there too.

What's maddening is that whole people on here are talking about stained underwear, ripped wrapping paper, and pineapple.....

The police have dna evidence and aren't doing anything with it.
 

proust20

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No matter from where the DNA came. it wouldn't prove anything per se. The never ending search for the intruder(s). GMAB. One would think that the final abuse would provide evidence, but...? Given several remarkable happenstances of the crime, it's almost like the Rs were aware to clean as they went. A type of efficiency even suggests premeditation, which is remote.

Difficulty with the timeline: The murder occurs 1-2AM. Patsy calls 911 at 5:50AM. The latest that the RN could be started is about 5:20AM. The parents say they got out of bed around 5AM. That leaves only 20 min. to figure out what happened, what to do next, including the RN. IMO Patsy did not go to bed. Fifty minutes is too short, bearing in mind the time for the staging.

How long was JR in the shower? Supposedly, he got up first. Then, he read the RN on the floor in his underwear, almost at the same time as the 911. Forty five minutes after arising, JR was still in his underwear? The family had to get ready for the flight to MI at 7AM.

Burke is present at the 911 call. He is wearing pajamas. What time did he awake, if he slept? "What did you find?" indicates a search by the parents that ate up more time. So now the onset of events is well before 5AM. (Obviously, earlier is also closer to the asphyxiation.) It would seem that BR knew that his parents were looking for something when they set out? He didn't ask -Where were you? or What are you doing? The WC scene had been completed (or mostly?) when the 911 was made. It's unlikely the Rs were still fumbling around when they decided to call BPD. Then, there's at least 20 min. between head blow and asphyxiation.

A neat resolution is if the 20 min.+ between blow and strangling were spent composing the RN. The RN is meant to deflect motive. Perhaps this double lethality is a byproduct of it? One means as staging for the other, which in some way is supposed to be tied to the FF? On CNN, the Rs were not concerned about terrorists. They never framed it as political, even though S.B.T.C made the motive clear. PR warned that there was a killer on the loose - Son of Sam, not bin-Laden. She said there were two people who knew what happened to JB - not the "group of individuals" of the RN. Oh but, maybe Patsy never read the note!

Couldn't JB have worn the GAP top to bed along with the pink pj bottoms? The kids would have to be gotten ready for the flight on a tight schedule, and this would save time.
 
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UKGuy

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I think there is something to be said about being in control of your emotions.

If I were in the position JR was in (crazy note, incompetent police, not knowing wtf was happening, and having another home) I would have gotten my family the hell out of there too.

What's maddening is that whole people on here are talking about stained underwear, ripped wrapping paper, and pineapple.....

The police have dna evidence and aren't doing anything with it.

Eddie99,
The police have dna evidence and aren't doing anything with it.
Makes you wonder why not, particularly if you know the dna profile entered into CODIS is invalid, i.e. a mix from numerous profiles.?

.
 

UKGuy

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No matter from where the DNA came. it wouldn't prove anything per se. The never ending search for the intruder(s). GMAB. One would think that the final abuse would provide evidence, but...? Given several remarkable happenstances of the crime, it's almost like the Rs were aware to clean as they went. A type of efficiency even suggests premeditation, which is remote.

Difficulty with the timeline: The murder occurs 1-2AM. Patsy calls 911 at 5:50AM. The latest that the RN could be started is about 5:20AM. The parents say they got out of bed around 5AM. That leaves only 20 min. to figure out what happened, what to do next, including the RN. IMO Patsy did not go to bed. Fifty minutes is too short, bearing in mind the time for the staging.

How long was JR in the shower? Supposedly, he got up first. Then, he read the RN on the floor in his underwear, almost at the same time as the 911. Forty five minutes after arising, JR was still in his underwear? The family had to get ready for the flight to MI at 7AM.

Burke is present at the 911 call. He is wearing pajamas. What time did he awake, if he slept? "What did you find?" indicates a search by the parents that ate up more time. So now the onset of events is well before 5AM. (Obviously, earlier is also closer to the asphyxiation.) It would seem that BR knew that his parents were looking for something when they set out? He didn't ask -Where were you? or What are you doing? The WC scene had been completed (or mostly?) when the 911 was made. It's unlikely the Rs were still fumbling around when they decided to call BPD. Then, there's at least 20 min. between head blow and asphyxiation.

A neat resolution is if the 20 min.+ between blow and strangling were spent composing the RN. The RN is meant to deflect motive. Perhaps this double lethality is a byproduct of it? One means as staging for the other, which in some way is supposed to be tied to the FF? On CNN, the Rs were not concerned about terrorists. They never framed it as political, even though S.B.T.C made the motive clear. PR warned that there was a killer on the loose - Son of Sam, not bin-Laden. She said there were two people who knew what happened to JB - not the "group of individuals" of the RN. Oh but, maybe Patsy never read the note!

Couldn't JB have worn the GAP top to bed along with the pink pj bottoms? The kids would have to be gotten ready for the flight on a tight schedule, and this would save time.

proust20,
No matter from where the DNA came. it wouldn't prove anything per se.
Oh yes it would. e.g. where was BR's dna found, where was JR's dna found, where was PR's dna found, what type was it: saliva, blood, semen, etc?

The Ramsey version of events, including their timeline is fake, this is why you are finding it difficult to chronicle the events.

Burke is present at the 911 call. He is wearing pajamas.
So yet more people who know what color of pajamas Burke was wearing that morning. PR cites ramnesia when asked about this.

Couldn't JB have worn the GAP top to bed along with the pink pj bottoms? The kids would have to be gotten ready for the flight on a tight schedule, and this would save time.
Quite possible, but knowing this does not explain why her pink pajama bottoms and size-6 underwear, presumably Bloomingdale's Day Of The Week, vanish into thin air?

A partial solution to the Ramsey timeline can be accomplished by assuming BR staged JonBenet along with the parents making minimal changes to what we are presented with by JR when he finds JonBenet?

Burke asking that question suggests he does not realize his parents have tweaked his staging, because he knows JonBenet is available to be found, and that his mother is dialling 911 to report JonBenet kidnapped, I guess his head was spinning at this point?

So many red flags in this case.

.
 

UKGuy

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UKGuy,

It makes more sense that BDI. We have to explain away the evidence connected with him and the wine cellar otherwise.

Although one wonders how JR was cool as a cucumber when the police arrived. And PR peeking through her fingers while her hands are on her face. And doesn’t rush to see her daughter once she is found. Questionable actions by both. Then JR wants to fly the family across state lines almost immediately after finding JB. Leaves one to wonder.

Rain on my Parade,
IMO, BDI is the best explanation to date, no other theory comes close.


Although one wonders how JR was cool as a cucumber when the police arrived
Probably because he had phoned for legal advice on his cellphone and knew what to expect? Don't forget that phone call to the governor of Colarado?

The question is at what point did the case become BDI for BPD and Alex Hunter, et al? As this would determine their initial approach?

Sending an ex-drugs investigator to run the show looks questionable after the event?

JR attempting to flee interstate by private plane tells you the extent of his arrogance, some might even classify it as an example of CEO Psychopathy?

Once JR leaves us ex-police officers will do interviews citing evidence where JR staged things. So there is more to come, and BR will have to be prepared to do media interviews or face trial by the media. It will be interesting as to whom BR engages as his legal advisor?

The case has possibly another twenty years to run until it becomes jaded and boring, although there might never be a conviction, some of the unreleased evidence can tell us whether the case is RDI and which Ramsey killed JonBenet?

I can imagine the headlines: Did JonBenet's Mother Kill Her To Save Burke?

.
 

Eddie99

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Help me with the BR theory, here.

Let's say he did kill her. He's 9 years old. He's not going to jail. Never going to happen. Not to mention, if I'm reading this forum correctly the idea is that he killed her out of jealousy because J.B. got all the attention. Then suddenly, the parents learn he killed their daughter. At this point, we have to belive that in that soul shattering moment, two adults decide the best thing to shield their son from (at worst) evaluation and treatment
And write a preposterous ransom note, and do things that could only invite more scrutiny on themselves, whom can go to prison for life.

It makes no sense.

I also say the odds of one parent killing a child and the other being willing to cover it up are astronomical.

BPD messed up. There is no disputing that.
It seems like instead of owning it. They danced around it.

I don't understand Colorado law. But it seems to me the Colorado State police, should take over the case.
 

InstantProof

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Help me with the BR theory, here.

Let's say he did kill her. He's 9 years old. He's not going to jail. Never going to happen. Not to mention, if I'm reading this forum correctly the idea is that he killed her out of jealousy because J.B. got all the attention. Then suddenly, the parents learn he killed their daughter. At this point, we have to belive that in that soul shattering moment, two adults decide the best thing to shield their son from (at worst) evaluation and treatment
And write a preposterous ransom note, and do things that could only invite more scrutiny on themselves, whom can go to prison for life.

It makes no sense.

I also say the odds of one parent killing a child and the other being willing to cover it up are astronomical.

BPD messed up. There is no disputing that.
It seems like instead of owning it. They danced around it.

I don't understand Colorado law. But it seems to me the Colorado State police, should take over the case.

If BDI I don't think Patsy was worried about Burke going to jail, but her reputation and image. She would be a mom that raised a "monster". I think the home was dysfunctional and she knew it but she was too busy with decorating and matching outfits. The Grand Jury saw through this, saying the parents permitted JonBenét to be placed in a dangerous situation.
 
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