Lies point us to the truth #2

[887sMtreme]

I don't know, but post case analysis is critical for LEO. I respectfully suggest, that if correct procedures had been followed, the case could have been solved.

Instead, it was sloppy, and careless police work. No excuse for the disaster. INMO, there was a deliberate, planned event to obfuscate the officers.

There’s no chance that anyone would disagree with you on this is! It’s almost a classic case study in what NOT to do. I’d be surprised if it were not used in that light.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Yes, it looks that way, why does Patsy not make the diaper claim, as it appears valid enough?

UKGuy,
PR is intelligent, although I don’t think she was banging on all 8 cylinders during this ordeal. Remember we are dealing with a drama Queen.

Yes, ITA. Underlines how it was really a rushed job. Did the missing size-6 and size-12's leave inside a doll taken by Pamela Paugh?

That would probably account for the cotton found in the wine cellar. Also, I never looked at it like this but JB was strangled with a cord the same manner as the American girl dolls heads were held onto their bodies? I read on FFJ that PP took out 2 American girl dolls.

BPD in their interviews know enough not to ask any relevant follow up questions, and Hunter behind the scenes is making sure the forensic evidence is funneled out of public view.

This strategy continues with the Cold Case Status, meaning little evidence reaches the public domain.

It all stays stored away is some depositary, presumably somewhere in Colorado state.

Do you think that vault will ever be opened up?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
PR is intelligent, although I don’t think she was banging on all 8 cylinders during this ordeal. Remember we are dealing with a drama Queen.



That would probably account for the cotton found in the wine cellar. Also, I never looked at it like this but JB was strangled with a cord the same manner as the American girl dolls heads were held onto their bodies? I read on FFJ that PP took out 2 American girl dolls.



Do you think that vault will ever be opened up?

Rain on my Parade,

PR is intelligent, although I don’t think she was banging on all 8 cylinders during this ordeal. Remember we are dealing with a drama Queen.

Sure, she play acted on that aspect though, remember she not only had some media savvy from her pageant days, but also insights from her degree Major on structuring narrative, i.e. that's a polite way of saying she told convincing lies!

That would probably account for the cotton found in the wine cellar. Also, I never looked at it like this but JB was strangled with a cord the same manner as the American girl dolls heads were held onto their bodies? I read on FFJ that PP took out 2 American girl dolls.

Yes, PP likely took out the incriminating evidence, the parents could not undertake this as they never knew in advance if they were to be arrested, etc.

For others: Think on the above, if PP does not remove the dolls, the parents will still eventually be allowed custody of the dolls, only once they are ruled out of course.

So removing the dolls suggests obtaining custody was not the overiding factor?

Do you think that vault will ever be opened up?

Of course it will. The media know full well everyone and their dog wants to know what happened, Who Killed JonBenet, etc?

There are currently JonBenet documentaries ready for broadcast, they are waiting for legal clearance, etc.

The release of choice forensic evidence, just as they did with the size-12's and long johns, will green light specific documentaries, so it's likely not everything will be opened up?

Consider all those BPD retiree investigators who want to present their case, etc.

They know what forensic artifacts are available and what best helps them present their case.

Meaning, although there will be no court case, once JR moves on, mainstream media will be at liberty to broadcast JonBenet moneyspinners claiming new just, released evidence reveals who killed JonBenet!

.

 

[UKGuy]

Yup. Quite sure. It took a couple/few years for eBay to flesh out enough to have major retailers marketing their stuff through eBay.
As I recall it, eBay would not have been anyone’s first choice for such a specific item. It was easy enough to just call the store’s order center if you knew the store and that they carried what you wanted. Bloomies had a big catalog that Patsy might have gotten in her mail. The phone number would have been prominently featured in it.

887sMtreme,
Patsy was likely to have had an account with Bloomingdale's, or did they do a Charge Card way back then?

The financials are shrouded in mystery here, this is one of many reasons why the size-12's remain relevant.

The visit to Bloomingdale's was really for JonBenet. Allowing her to look over the styles and fashions, etc. This would have formed part of their wardrobe purchases for upcoming Christmas events, not everything Patsy might suggest as cute would meet with JonBenet's approval.


The suggestion regarding Ebay is just that some third party could have supplied the returned size-12's, they need not be the originals.

Has anyone matched any of the dna found on the pair JonBenet wore to any of those returned, i.e. a disconfirming negative?

.

 

[Whatsunderthenighttable96]

Rain on my Parade,

Sure, she play acted on that aspect though, remember she not only had some media savvy from her pageant days, but also insights from her degree Major on structuring narrative, i.e. that's a polite way of saying she told convincing lies!


Yes, PP likely took out the incriminating evidence, the parents could not undertake this as they never knew in advance if they were to be arrested, etc.

For others: Think on the above, if PP does not remove the dolls, the parents will still eventually be allowed custody of the dolls, only once they are ruled out of course.

So removing the dolls suggests obtaining custody was not the overiding factor?


Of course it will. The media know full well everyone and their dog wants to know what happened, Who Killed JonBenet, etc?

There are currently JonBenet documentaries ready for broadcast, they are waiting for legal clearance, etc.

The release of choice forensic evidence, just as they did with the size-12's and long johns, will green light specific documentaries, so it's likely not everything will be opened up?

Consider all those BPD retiree investigators who want to present their case, etc.

They know what forensic artifacts are available and what best helps them present their case.

Meaning, although there will be no court case, once JR moves on, mainstream media will be at liberty to broadcast JonBenet moneyspinners claiming new just, released evidence reveals who killed JonBenet!

.

Are you suggesting these programs were already recorded and are in post production? Or that “script” ideas are in the works for the right time/ awaiting a green light? A dead patriarch. Without sounding too feudal, he’s got 2 heirs that go on TV. Or 1 at least. Who can and will sue regardless?

I agree with the original doll poster Jahazafat that the navy blue wool fibers were from the doll and the sweater and skirt were used as a wiping cloth. They had blood on them, they didn’t want the doll or instruments in police custody?

This is going to sound a little woo woo, but someone has to say it.

So we are 90s Nickelodeon kids right. Play is influenced by media, creating a shared experience, that’s pop culture.

In 1994 an episode of Are You Afraid of The Dark aired called the Tale of the Dollmaker. On Tumblr, it says this show was JonBenet’s favorite and the episode is very memorable for a child. It’s creepy and interesting. We all remember it.
HER NAME WAS JONBENET

The episode summary is here:The Tale of the Dollmaker

and you can watch it here:

Its a stretch but—I wonder if a re-run aired in Dec 96 and was a source of inspiration in the basement? Maybe it aired 12/23 at the party. Maybe Reddit poster SnooHamster could find out about TV broadcasts in 1996. Who knows. I’m reaching, but it includes the following imagery; dolls, dollhouse (dr Phil) attic with a secret door (not a basement) in a mansion, a flashlight, becoming a doll, bonfires (Charlevoix), the doll Character Susan in a pink nightgown, a hammer (whoops took her down quietly), ball of twine, jumping out a window.

I know, it’s a kids program featuring common household items and themes. I know. Not that anyone else is following this but the program aired on Saturdays during Nick at Night and the gingerbread party and Christmas were on a Monday and Wednesday respectively.

Just feel it needs to be said. That is all.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,

Sure, she play acted on that aspect though, remember she not only had some media savvy from her pageant days, but also insights from her degree Major on structuring narrative, i.e. that's a polite way of saying she told convincing lies!


Yes, PP likely took out the incriminating evidence, the parents could not undertake this as they never knew in advance if they were to be arrested, etc.

For others: Think on the above, if PP does not remove the dolls, the parents will still eventually be allowed custody of the dolls, only once they are ruled out of course.

So removing the dolls suggests obtaining custody was not the overiding factor?


Of course it will. The media know full well everyone and their dog wants to know what happened, Who Killed JonBenet, etc?

There are currently JonBenet documentaries ready for broadcast, they are waiting for legal clearance, etc.

The release of choice forensic evidence, just as they did with the size-12's and long johns, will green light specific documentaries, so it's likely not everything will be opened up?

Consider all those BPD retiree investigators who want to present their case, etc.

They know what forensic artifacts are available and what best helps them present their case.

Meaning, although there will be no court case, once JR moves on, mainstream media will be at liberty to broadcast JonBenet moneyspinners claiming new just, released evidence reveals who killed JonBenet!

.

UKGuy,
Thanks for the updated information! It will indeed be very interesting to see who comes forth and what cards they lay on the table!

The long Johns are sort of a red flag. They belonged to BR. They never were in her room or her bathroom drawers. There is a fecal smear on the carpet in JB bedroom that has never been addressed.
One has to wonder other then the obvious explanation of bag and carry to and from JB bedroom to the basement of the purple duffel bag. Does make one wonder what took place in her bedroom that night.
I have my reasons but had rather not go into detail with them that the assault took place in the Sunroom. She could have been dragged down to the basement from there by BR. I also recently reviewed the autopsy report and the quarter size mark on her left throat area is stated as an abrasion? Which says to me that it is more of a scrape then a bruise. Wonder how that could have happened? It’s like the strange burn like mark by her right ear and the train track punctures. So needing clarification on these matters!

For some reason I don’t think we have long to wait for JR to pass. Then the real tell all will begin.

 

[887sMtreme]

Snipped for focus

887sMtreme,
Patsy was likely to have had an account with Bloomingdale's, or did they do a Charge Card way back then?

I’m sure PR a had accounts at all the major department stores. And of course there were charge cards “way back then.” Some stores started phasing out their proprietary accounts, though, in favor of taking MasterCard, Visa, Amex, and so on. Bank debit cards were also becoming popular at that time. Point is, Patsy could easily have called up Bloomies to place a credit card order. I frankly don’t see her constitutionally capable of buying anything second-hand through eBay of anywhere else. And as I said, eBay was in its infancy then. It wasn’t the go-to place to look for things that it is today, and it has never been a vehicle for brand-new items the way Amazon is.

I realize this is nit-picking, but such details can be important.

 

[UKGuy]

Snipped for focus


I’m sure PR a had accounts at all the major department stores. And of course there were charge cards “way back then.” Some stores started phasing out their proprietary accounts, though, in favor of taking MasterCard, Visa, Amex, and so on. Bank debit cards were also becoming popular at that time. Point is, Patsy could easily have called up Bloomies to place a credit card order. I frankly don’t see her constitutionally capable of buying anything second-hand through eBay of anywhere else. And as I said, eBay was in its infancy then. It wasn’t the go-to place to look for things that it is today, and it has never been a vehicle for brand-new items the way Amazon is.

I realize this is nit-picking, but such details can be important.

887sMtreme,

I realize this is nit-picking, but such details can be important.

No you are right. I was using Ebay as an example rather than claiming Patsy was shopping online, etc.

This is why I mentioned the dna. Does the handed in size-12 dna match any found on the size-12's JonBenet was wearing, i.e. the packing transfer theory?

Did BPD contact Bloomingdale's for information regarding Patsy's purchases?

The size-12's blow a big hole in the Ramsey's claim that the case is IDI !

.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Thanks for the updated information! It will indeed be very interesting to see who comes forth and what cards they lay on the table!

The long Johns are sort of a red flag. They belonged to BR. They never were in her room or her bathroom drawers. There is a fecal smear on the carpet in JB bedroom that has never been addressed.
One has to wonder other then the obvious explanation of bag and carry to and from JB bedroom to the basement of the purple duffel bag. Does make one wonder what took place in her bedroom that night.
I have my reasons but had rather not go into detail with them that the assault took place in the Sunroom. She could have been dragged down to the basement from there by BR. I also recently reviewed the autopsy report and the quarter size mark on her left throat area is stated as an abrasion? Which says to me that it is more of a scrape then a bruise. Wonder how that could have happened? It’s like the strange burn like mark by her right ear and the train track punctures. So needing clarification on these matters!

For some reason I don’t think we have long to wait for JR to pass. Then the real tell all will begin.

Rain on my Parade,

The long Johns are sort of a red flag. They belonged to BR. They never were in her room or her bathroom drawers. There is a fecal smear on the carpet in JB bedroom that has never been addressed.

BBM: You have a source for this, as it just adds to Kolar's theory?

Yes, the long johns. Personally I reckon Patsy's tale about the long johns is one of her fabrications.

It all sounds credible until you ask about the size-12's, i.e. did Patsy not see them when she dressed JonBenet in Burke's long johns, or how about: why did they not fall down? Patsy has an answer of course but it's lame!

Also why would Patsy not replace the size-12's with a pair of normal size-6 underwear as they were available in the same drawers she sourced the long johns?

I have my reasons but had rather not go into detail with them that the assault took place in the Sunroom.

Sure, it could be anywhere upstairs, with her bedroom a prior staging event.

You can bet any bag, suitcase, etc would have been put to use in moving stuff down to the basement, hence all the forensic artifacts with no obvious reason for being located in the basement, e.g. Samsonite suitcase. Along with Patsy's backup excuse for handling any bags, I was packing for our vacation flight?

I also recently reviewed the autopsy report and the quarter size mark on her left throat area is stated as an abrasion? Which says to me that it is more of a scrape then a bruise. Wonder how that could have happened? It’s like the strange burn like mark by her right ear and the train track punctures.

From memory it could be an abrasion resulting from say an arm choke hold, where the fabric on the arm scrapes the skin? Alternatively JonBenet was dragged, say by her feet, on a bed, or similar material which ends up causing an abrasion?

I just came to the conclusion that someone went postal on JonBenet, physically assaulting her, then dragged her body to some other location, thereby causing the various abrasions and contusions?

For some reason I don’t think we have long to wait for JR to pass. Then the real tell all will begin.

Yes, you will be able to work out who did what, once certain forensic items are released or not, meaning they are a red flag.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

BBM: You have a source for this, as it just adds to Kolar's theory?

UKGuy,
Sure under Media links #309.

Yes, the long johns. Personally I reckon Patsy's tale about the long johns is one of her fabrications.

It all sounds credible until you ask about the size-12's, i.e. did Patsy not see them when she dressed JonBenet in Burke's long johns, or how about: why did they not fall down? Patsy has an answer of course but it's lame!

Also why would Patsy not replace the size-12's with a pair of normal size-6 underwear as they were available in the same drawers she sourced the long johns?

Exactly. Makes no sense but the story was somehow bought.

From memory it could be an abrasion resulting from say an arm choke hold, where the fabric on the arm scrapes the skin? Alternatively JonBenet was dragged, say by her feet, on a bed, or similar material which ends up causing an abrasion?

I just came to the conclusion that someone went postal on JonBenet, physically assaulting her, then dragged her body to some other location, thereby causing the various abrasions and contusions?

The abrasion point was eye opening to me. It looked as many have referred to as a pooling of blood rather than an abrasion. Very odd abrasion!

Yes, you will be able to work out who did what, once certain forensic items are released or not, meaning they are a red flag.

Except for the fact that there are items used in the crime scene (MOO) that were not taken into evidence. The cops knew to leave the crime scene alone. Case in point: Officer French. He knew the story didn’t add up (as he said) yet he still failed to search the wine cellar. Leaving that up to FW and JR.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Sure under Media links #309.



Exactly. Makes no sense but the story was somehow bought.



The abrasion point was eye opening to me. It looked as many have referred to as a pooling of blood rather than an abrasion. Very odd abrasion!



Except for the fact that there are items used in the crime scene (MOO) that were not taken into evidence. The cops knew to leave the crime scene alone. Case in point: Officer French. He knew the story didn’t add up (as he said) yet he still failed to search the wine cellar. Leaving that up to FW and JR.

Rain on my Parade,
Thanks for the link.

Exactly. Makes no sense but the story was somehow bought.

ITA. IMO, BPD knew it was nonsense, this why any details regarding JonBenet's underwear taken from the house and referenced in Patsy's interview with BPD, have never been released, telling us they are not only a red flag, but a case insight question for Patsy if she ever took the stand.

The abrasion point was eye opening to me. It looked as many have referred to as a pooling of blood rather than an abrasion. Very odd abrasion!

A pooling of blood with no broken skin should be a contusion, an abrasion can break the skin with blood evident but not venous, e.g. a scuff.

With adults involved you could say there had been a fight, but with an adult versus a six-year old child it's no competition really.

Here is today's case question: If some of JonBenet's abrasions were caused by her being dragged somewhere, where would that originating location be, assuming that the parents moved her down to the basement?

Except for the fact that there are items used in the crime scene (MOO) that were not taken into evidence.

Sure, but they could release all the dna lab results or even just those relating to someone whose dna should not be anywhere near say the size-12's?

JonBenet afficionados will be able to eliminate particular family members just by having particular hearsay confirmed.

Although some crime-scene items were not taken into evidence that does not mean we do not know they existed, i.e. we can have prior Ramsey photographs, e.g. Patsy or JonBenet at the White's.

Then there is Fleet White who likely glimpsed the untouched crime-scene before the BPD investigated.

Fleet White can confirm what was where and if it had been removed or relocated.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

ITA. IMO, BPD knew it was nonsense, this why any details regarding JonBenet's underwear taken from the house and referenced in Patsy's interview with BPD, have never been released, telling us they are not only a red flag, but a case insight question for Patsy if she ever took the stand.

UKGuy,
Have you ever heard of a crime scene in which a family member is allowed inside to collect items? This alone simply screams corruption in the judicial system. Never mind the keystone cops and all the other evidence (we whom seek justice for JB) must turn a blind eye to.

Here is today's case question: If some of JonBenet's abrasions were caused by her being dragged somewhere, where would that originating location be, assuming that the parents moved her down to the basement?

The wine cellar floor.

Sure, but they could release all the dna lab results or even just those relating to someone whose dna should not be anywhere near say the size-12's?

JonBenet afficionados will be able to eliminate particular family members just by having particular hearsay confirmed.

The autopsy report also states that the amount of blood found on the crotch of the size 12’s is 1/2 inch. Yet there is an inner mixing of an unknown male dna within that? I suspect that dna is linked to BR and/or his mates.

Although some crime-scene items were not taken into evidence that does not mean we do not know they existed, i.e. we can have prior Ramsey photographs, e.g. Patsy or JonBenet at the White's.

I can’t get the scarf on the wet bar out of the picture. Yet they took a brick from the fireplace? Reminded of the window that opens inward just before the front staircase. What a convenient place to deposit the baseball bat w/basement carpet fibers attached.

Then there is Fleet White who likely glimpsed the untouched crime-scene before the BPD investigated.

Fleet White can confirm what was where and if it had been removed or relocated.

More then likely this was what started the riff between FW and JR. FW states he saw nothing. Blows a big whole in the R’s story. So, their friendship went by the way side.

Here is my question for the day:
Since we know these facts exist, how is it after 25 years, JB still doesn’t have justice? It’s no wonder we have trust issues in this case.

 

[887sMtreme]

Apropos no particular post, and for folks who may not be familiar with the venerable U.S. retailer Bloomingdale’s, please know that it’s been affectionately known by its customers for decades by the nickname Bloomie’s. The underwear we keep talking about wouldn’t be called “bloomies”; there is no such thing. Bloomie’s (note the apostrophe) is the name of the store where the underwear set was purchased. It’s perfectly okay, I guess, to refer to the “size 12 bloomies,” since us old-timers know what’s meant, but this might be confusing to newcomers to this case. At this anniversary time, I suppose there will be some.

 

[peanutJelly]

Rain on my Parade,
IMO what you get in the wine-cellar is all staging, even BR's birthday gifts.

It's the outcome of dismantling a prior staging, this is why there are bloodstains on the nightgown.

If there actually was a barbie doll left in the wine-cellar, then it would seem like abandoned staging, since it would not really represent an actual crime-scene, only that of one fabricated to hide evidence.

If it is on the BPD evidence list or somebody credible can testify to its existence then rather than simply representing staging it might be a critical part of the case?

i.e. Did Burke Ramsey return back down stairs once everyone was in their bedroom and retreive a Barbie Doll intended as a supplemental Christmas gift during the upcoming vacation?

I reckon folks are looking in all the wrong places for clues. The breakfast bar was ignored by the Ramsey's, note the plural, as they all forgot about it, it meant nothing to them, evidentially it was irrelevant.

We know different of course, as the pineapple demonstrates JonBenet was awake after returning from the White's.

So along with JonBenet's two ponytails, the above assumptions, her missing pink pajama bottoms, which Patsy claimed were not on her bed when she put JonBenet to bed, we can assume JonBenet made it to her bed, wearing her pink pajama set.

Otherwise you have to suggest there was a prior staging that incorporated the two ponytails?

Things were overlooked, we know as nobody from BPD bagged the fecally soiled pajamas for inclusion on the evidence list, then there is JonBenet's candy-box smeared with fecal matter, again was this bagged and stored in an evidence cage? If yes, were there any dna lab test ran on the fecal matter?

It's as if the investigators know not to go there, as cross-referencing any dna-results with that of the Ramsey's might yield an unwanted match?

I keep returning to my original theory that there were multiple staging events, how else to explain the forensic complexity ?

They might go something like this:

Staging event 1: The basement.

Staging event 2 : JonBenet's bedroom.

Staging event 3 : The Wine-Cellar.

IMO the GJ should have leveled a First Degree Homicide True Bill against Patsy as there is enough forensic evidence to not only place her at the alleged crime-scene, but also on the ligature/device that killed JonBenet.

Why do I cite 1, 2 and 3? As there is forensic evidence linking all three locations, e.g. pink pajama bottoms missing from 2. Along with the barbie nightgown appearing in 3. And of course the blue samsonite suitcase along with other miscellaneous items pop up in varying places in 1.

The entirety of the forensic evidence does not match the Ramsey version of events. This can demonstrate that the Ramsey's colluded post-mortem.

Also if the holiday barbie doll is verified then it's possible it played a role in a staging setup by Patsy, using the doll and nightgown in a staged crime-scene?


Depends on what you think took place, e.g. JonBenet dressing up in barbie nightgown, etc for another family member, or did JonBenet join Burke down in the basement to fetch the size-12's, the doll or both, with it all tragically going wrong?

As the Ramsey's ignored the kitchen we can rule it out, leaving the basement and JonBenet's bedroom as the focus for investigation.

.

Is it possible that BR went into the basement to look for his birthday gifts? Was there a present he wanted for Xmas that he didn’t get, and wanted to know if it’s wrapped up for birthday? In doing so he unwraps size 12 pants (small Xmas gift not given yet), Barbie (some parents give children a present on siblings birthday so they don’t feel left out). JB wakes up, goes to BR bedroom as she sometimes does but he’s not there. She goes to look for him, pops a piece of pineapple in her mouth as she goes past the bowl, then finds him in the basement unwrapping gifts. Tells him he’ll be in trouble when parents find out. RB (who has sneaked down with the flashlight that his dad maybe used earlier putting to bed) and hits her with it. In all the later staging to protect RB the flashlight ends up on the breakfast bar. Parents might not even realise it’s significance until later. There must have been so much panic that night especially given early start with everyone knowing they were flying out early… Just a theory been niggling me, anyone got thoughts on any of it?

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>RB (who has sneaked down with the flashlight that his dad maybe used earlier putting to bed) and hits her with it. </snip>

Why would John have left his flashlight with Burke?

 

[UKGuy]

Is it possible that BR went into the basement to look for his birthday gifts? Was there a present he wanted for Xmas that he didn’t get, and wanted to know if it’s wrapped up for birthday? In doing so he unwraps size 12 pants (small Xmas gift not given yet), Barbie (some parents give children a present on siblings birthday so they don’t feel left out). JB wakes up, goes to BR bedroom as she sometimes does but he’s not there. She goes to look for him, pops a piece of pineapple in her mouth as she goes past the bowl, then finds him in the basement unwrapping gifts. Tells him he’ll be in trouble when parents find out. RB (who has sneaked down with the flashlight that his dad maybe used earlier putting to bed) and hits her with it. In all the later staging to protect RB the flashlight ends up on the breakfast bar. Parents might not even realise it’s significance until later. There must have been so much panic that night especially given early start with everyone knowing they were flying out early… Just a theory been niggling me, anyone got thoughts on any of it?

peanutJelly,

Is it possible that BR went into the basement to look for his birthday gifts? Was there a present he wanted for Xmas that he didn’t get, and wanted to know if it’s wrapped up for birthday? In doing so he unwraps size 12 pants (small Xmas gift not given yet), Barbie (some parents give children a present on siblings birthday so they don’t feel left out).

Here is what Kolar says about the gifts in the basement:
James Kolar, Foreign Faction, Excerpt

I learned, over the course of my inquiry, that it was Burke who had actually been responsible for tearing back the paper of the presents while playing in the basement on Christmas Day, and I wondered why Patsy would claim responsibility for doing this. Patsy had also told investigators that the unwrapped box of Lego toys in the same room was being hidden for Burke's upcoming January birthday.

I didn?t give much thought about the presence of Christmas presents in the room at the time, but would later think these played a role in some of the events that took place on Christmas day.

So it looks like something is going on with the gifts wrt JonBenet and Burke, just what remains open for debate?

Tells him he’ll be in trouble when parents find out. RB (who has sneaked down with the flashlight that his dad maybe used earlier putting to bed) and hits her with it.

Here is Burke's reply to what you suggest:
Dr Phil Interview with Burke Ramsey, episode 2, excerpt

Dr Phil: I think your dad had said he used the flashlight that night to put you to bed, and then you snuck downstairs to play?

Burke: Yeah, I had some toy that I wanted to put together. I remember being downstairs after everyone was kinda in bed, and wanting to get this thing out.

Dr Phil: Did you use the flashlight, so you wouldn't be seen?

Burke: I don't remember. I just remember being downstairs, I remember this toy.

Dr Phil: Did you hit your sister over the head with a baseball bat or a flashlight?

Burke:Absolutely not.

Burke develops ramnesia on whether he used the flashlight.

Note: he does not deny using the flashlight. Then again, he might just be giving his father an alibi, as JR was the last person known to use the flashlight.

In all the later staging to protect RB the flashlight ends up on the breakfast bar.

It might be JR who was protected, but is this because he was actively staging himself or Burke out of JonBenet's homicide, you decide?

.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Have you ever heard of a crime scene in which a family member is allowed inside to collect items? This alone simply screams corruption in the judicial system. Never mind the keystone cops and all the other evidence (we whom seek justice for JB) must turn a blind eye to.



The wine cellar floor.



The autopsy report also states that the amount of blood found on the crotch of the size 12’s is 1/2 inch. Yet there is an inner mixing of an unknown male dna within that? I suspect that dna is linked to BR and/or his mates.



I can’t get the scarf on the wet bar out of the picture. Yet they took a brick from the fireplace? Reminded of the window that opens inward just before the front staircase. What a convenient place to deposit the baseball bat w/basement carpet fibers attached.



More then likely this was what started the riff between FW and JR. FW states he saw nothing. Blows a big whole in the R’s story. So, their friendship went by the way side.

Here is my question for the day:
Since we know these facts exist, how is it after 25 years, JB still doesn’t have justice? It’s no wonder we have trust issues in this case.

Rain on my Parade,

Have you ever heard of a crime scene in which a family member is allowed inside to collect items? This alone simply screams corruption in the judicial system. Never mind the keystone cops and all the other evidence (we whom seek justice for JB) must turn a blind eye to.

it does happen, but rarely, if ever, in homicide cases.

Usually the crime-scene is sealed and that's that.

Patently one of the red flags in this case, it tells us it's not a simple IDI, open and shut case.

The wine cellar floor.

I doubt that. More likely a room upstairs. If Burke dragged JonBenet on any carpeted part of the basement this might inflict abrasions?

My money is on a room upstairs. JonBenet's bedroom is a mess, is this because it's the original crime-scene or a variant staging?

The autopsy report also states that the amount of blood found on the crotch of the size 12’s is 1/2 inch. Yet there is an inner mixing of an unknown male dna within that? I suspect that dna is linked to BR and/or his mates.

Well Kolar states there are multiple partial dna profiles in the underwear bloodstain. so everything is on the table.

To move forward you have to rule out dna environmental deposition.

This will be difficult as all the dna lab results have not been published.

I can’t get the scarf on the wet bar out of the picture. Yet they took a brick from the fireplace? Reminded of the window that opens inward just before the front staircase. What a convenient place to deposit the baseball bat w/basement carpet fibers attached.

What role does the scarf play in the staging or JonBenet's homicide, i.e. what is the percentage?

More then likely this was what started the riff between FW and JR. FW states he saw nothing. Blows a big whole in the R’s story. So, their friendship went by the way side.

JR never knew that Fleet White had visited the basement before he did that morning, this was revealed in one of JR's BPD interviews.

Fleet White searched about the basement moving some items as he looked, he would be able to confirm to BPD any claims made by JR. To date Fleet White's BPD interview has never been released, suggesting he is a police witness?

Also Fleet White attended Burke Ramsey's bedroom, helping him by making his bed and generally tidying up. Later he assisted in moving Burke out of the house ASAP at JR's request.

So Fleet White saw a lot, more than some police officers.

He returned to the wine-cellar directly after JR lifted JonBenet upstairs, searching, observing patently looking for answers.

IMO, Fleet White knows who killed JonBenet!

This is why JR unleashed a media campaign against him, labelling him a suspect.

Since we know these facts exist, how is it after 25 years, JB still doesn’t have justice? It’s no wonder we have trust issues in this case.

Self evidently because the case is BDI. Meaning Burke is protected by Colorado Statute.

The parents are not so their True Bills can be released to the public.

.

 

[peanutJelly]

elannia,
Dateline NBC "Who Killed JonBenet"

You cannot beat the horse's mouth.

And there is this:


So it's all staging from beginning to end. Yet millions of people believe what the Ramsey's said and think an intruder killed JonBenet.

.

Can’t imagine BR with tears in his eyes, either then or later

 

[peanutJelly]

Why would John have left his flashlight with Burke?

Why not?

 

[peanutJelly]

peanutJelly,


Here is what Kolar says about the gifts in the basement:
James Kolar, Foreign Faction, Excerpt

So it looks like something is going on with the gifts wrt JonBenet and Burke, just what remains open for debate?


Here is Burke's reply to what you suggest:
Dr Phil Interview with Burke Ramsey, episode 2, excerpt



Burke develops ramnesia on whether he used the flashlight.

Note: he does not deny using the flashlight. Then again, he might just be giving his father an alibi, as JR was the last person known to use the flashlight.


It might be JR who was protected, but is this because he was actively staging himself or Burke out of JonBenet's homicide, you decide?

.

I think both, hence IDI