Lies point us to the truth #2

[Rain on my Parade]

Armygirl2319,

I know I am new to this discussion but I don't understand why anyone thinks she was killed at the house. It is much more logical she was killed somewhere else and they brought the dead girl home to stage the scene. The oversized panties which PR probably did buy, for another child, a child that lived where the real murder happened, were used because that was all that was available and her actual underwear probably were compromised. The fruit was eaten at this party as well. No way a mother puts those on a child without realizing they are the wrong size and JBR was too old for diapers especially considering she was on the pageant circuit.

We have evidence of the pineapple being consumed from the home that was found in her small intestine. The fruit matched down to the rind found in the Ramsey’s home. So, she had to have been killed at the house.
What if the scenario was BR dressing JB in the oversized bloomies. He most likely didn’t care about the size detail.

The whole story reeks of child sex trafficking. My guess is they were at a Christmas party and the children were for sale during it. Probably way more than just their own. One of the perverts killed JBR and they brought her home in the suitcase. They started with convincing the brother she was alive when they came home, coached him. Once they put him down they staged the scene. They called the police before they were really ready because time of death couldn't be allowed to go too long before the police were called. Their helpful friends were all at the Christmas party and were helping screw up the scene because they were involved.

Okay, so let’s consider that sex trafficking was going on at the Whites home. There were guests there as well parents of the Whites. Do you really think they would be doing dirty deeds with them in attendance? I honestly don’t think FW and PR was be such advocates that justice be served in this case if they were involved.

The parents covered it up because they were guilty, not of the murder but of how the murder happened. They could never tell the truth about any of the real details without screwing themselves big time.

Sure, they wanted to keep their last remaining child with them. So, you could look at it this way: The parents helped in staging the crime scene so that BR was not sent to a home for mental illness. As it is, I wonder if he didn’t receive electric shock therapy to help him forget what he did.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The only "official statement" I've seen that suggests that JBR was the victim of abuse (other than the trauma from the night of the murder) is that Arndt lady. Whom was subsequently fired, after her tv interview.

(I want to say that there was something published about her previous medical records from her pediatrician- that never indicated any type of abuse)

Eddie99,

For reference:
The Boulder Police provided Dr McCann with the autopsy report and photographs. Dr McCann observed that the genitals of JonBenét Ramsey met all the diagnostic criteria for prior sexual abuse.
According to McCann, examination findings that indicate chronic sexual abuse include the thickness of the rim of the hymen, irregularity of the edge of the hymen, the width or narrowness of the wall of the hymen, and exposure of structures of the vagina normally covered by the hymen. His report stated that there was evidence of prior hymeneal trauma as all of these criteria were seen in the post mortem examination of JonBenet.

The vaginal opening, according to Dr. Robert Kirschner of the University of Chicago's pathology department, was twice the normal size for six-year-olds. "The genital injuries indicate penetration," he says, "but probably not by a penis, and are evidence of molestation that night as well as previous molestation."

No one knows what the pediatrician records state.

 

[danablue1]

danablue1,
Because there was evidence of chronic and acute sexual assault, so the parents knew this could not be hidden.

So the staging was a fling of the dice an attempt to play for time and see how it all worked out.

JR was on his phone to his pilot to arrange a flight out of Colorado interstate ASAP that morning, so this tells you what his game plan was.

The coverup is just smoke and mirrors with an intent to evade prosecution, in this they were successful.

Most folks know the family was involved, but nobody has found the Smoking Gun that tells us exactly who did what?

.

I really like this

 

[danablue1]

I just don't get the elaborate coverup why not just say she fell and hit her head or say they found her at the bottom of the stairs and call 911 if they didn't want to implicate anyone

Now I know why, the sexual abuse would have been discovered

 

[danablue1]

Armygirl2319,



We have evidence of the pineapple being consumed from the home that was found in her small intestine. The fruit matched down to the rind found in the Ramsey’s home. So, she had to have been killed at the house.
What if the scenario was BR dressing JB in the oversized bloomies. He most likely didn’t care about the size detail.



Okay, so let’s consider that sex trafficking was going on at the Whites home. There were guests there as well parents of the Whites. Do you really think they would be doing dirty deeds with them in attendance? I honestly don’t think FW and PR was be such advocates that justice be served in this case if they were involved.



Sure, they wanted to keep their last remaining child with them. So, you could look at it this way: The parents helped in staging the crime scene so that BR was not sent to a home for mental illness. As it is, I wonder if he didn’t receive electric shock therapy to help him forget what he did.

I don't think JR would pay much attention to the size of the undies or BR's long underwear. Most men are not very observant when it comes to the difference between girls or boys clothing or proper sizing.

 

[Eddie99]

So, there's this:

In an interview with KUSA-TV, JonBenet's pediatrician, Francesco Beuf, said he never saw any indication that the child had ever experienced sexual abuse.
"I can tell you as far as her medical history is concerned there was never any hint whatsoever of sexual abuse," he said. "I didn't see any hint of emotional abuse or physical abuse. She was a very much loved child, just as her brother."
Beuf said that as a pediatrician he sees all sorts of children and he can normally tell whether a child is happy.
Beuf described JonBenet as "just a wonderful, happy kid who had the strength to deal with some very tough situations with regard to her mother's illness."


I came to this site 10 years ago, while looking up a cold case in my area I hadn't heard of beforehand.

I found this site to be interesting. I enjoy reading folks thoughts, questions, theories and some of the research skills.

None if that is true about this thread. It's by far and away the worst on this site. Wild speculation, bombastic theories. I realize that the subject matter on here can be disturbing. I get it, but some of the narratives on here are so wildly perverse its sickening.

This isn't a cut and dry case, like Casey Anthony, or the doomsday lady & her boyfriend. There is serious things in this case that point to an intruder of some sort.

Not the least of which is these people had no history of any type of depraved conduct before or after the murder.

Like I said before, I don't know what the odds are or even how to calculate them. But for a spose to murder a child, abs the other to be ok with it - with no cultish, brainwashing, drug addled derangement, has to be a billion to one.

Child abuse is the worst thing in the world. Heinous. Utterly Heinous. Every single aspect of it. Including haphazardly throwing about accusations. It's so bad, that one really needs to be judicious when leveling such accusations.

 

[proust20]

I agree that JB was denied medical help because of the SA. The final assault was staging? It was meant to seem that she was victimized by the kidnapper(s). The Rs were naive in thinking that the chronic situation wouldn't be revealed. Patsy was shocked by the findings, and continual denials followed. SA cannot be ruled out in BDI. More probable than sudden fit of anger? The paintbrush could be used variously.

Even so, what would prompt Patsy to fashion the ligature with her brush and apply it so mercilessly? If she intended self-incrimination as a shield, there ought to be more evidence that would point to her. Of course, the RN could be seen in this light. However, Patsy was defiant in her LE interviews. The minority view that the head blow was staging for the asphyxiation has some credence in this regard.

It is reasonable to conclude that BR wouldn't pay attention to the size of the panties. If he put JB in the size 12s and long johns, why did the parents leave her like that? She was wiped down after being dressed the way that she was found. So, the weird way she was clad was observed. I don't consider BR to be the wiper, as it'd make more sense for him to do that before he redressed his sister. Care was taken to wrap JB in the blanket which is at odds with the violence. And how would this elaborate staging indicate that what happened was at the hands of a terrorist whose kidnapping attempt for 118k went awry? The disconnect between RN and WC leads me in the direction of the author of the RN being occupied in writing it independently from whatever the stager was doing in the WC. At times Patsy herself seems not to know all the answers.

John reading the RN in his underwear has its echo in his tale of stripping down to his undies when he broke the basement widow. This is due to the size 6s weighing on his mind?

JonBenet was a happy child? With toileting issues at 6 years old. + "I don't feel pretty."

 

[Rain on my Parade]

In an interview with KUSA-TV, JonBenet's pediatrician, Francesco Beuf, said he never saw any indication that the child had ever experienced sexual abuse.
"I can tell you as far as her medical history is concerned there was never any hint whatsoever of sexual abuse," he said. "I didn't see any hint of emotional abuse or physical abuse. She was a very much loved child, just as her brother."
Beuf said that as a pediatrician he sees all sorts of children and he can normally tell whether a child is happy.
Beuf described JonBenet as "just a wonderful, happy kid who had the strength to deal with some very tough situations with regard to her mother's illness."

Eddie99,

The only way Dr. Beuf would have been able to tell if JB had been sexually abused would have been to exam her privates. Dr’s don’t normally do this unless this is brought to their attention. This would traumatize a 6 year old little girl. I had many urinary tract infections due to medical procedures I won’t go into here; when I was young. I couldn’t take bubble baths but took one whenever no one was paying attention as I loved them so. No doctor examined by privates, yet I was SA. At age three, JonBenet visited her doctor twice complaining about vaginal irritation and redness. This has been touted as a sign that she was sexual assaulted, although her doctor insists that the irritation came from her bubble bath. As I said, most 6 year olds are uncomfortable with a private part’s exam. Sexual abuse can leave no trace.

This isn't a cut and dry case, like Casey Anthony, or the doomsday lady & her boyfriend. There is serious things in this case that point to an intruder of some sort.

There is no evidence of an intruder in this case.

Not the least of which is these people had no history of any type of depraved conduct before or after the murder.

This is broad speculation. You do not know what goes on behind closed doors.

Like I said before, I don't know what the odds are or even how to calculate them. But for a spose to murder a child, abs the other to be ok with it - with no cultish, brainwashing, drug addled derangement, has to be a billion to one.

It does seem unimaginable. But these cases do exist as you well know. Let PR speak in this case:
In her CNN appearance:
“You know, America has just been hurt so deeply,” Patsy said, “with the — this — the tragic things that have happened. The young woman who drove her children into the water, and we don’t know what happened with the O.J. Simpson — and I mean, America is suffering because we have lost faith in the American family.”

Child abuse is the worst thing in the world. Heinous. Utterly Heinous. Every single aspect of it. Including haphazardly throwing about accusations. It's so bad, that one really needs to be judicious when leveling such accusations.

I would agree that it is heinous indeed. How much have you studied up on this case? I believe you will discover the facts if you delve deeper.

 

[danablue1]

<modsnip>
If the R's had been truthful and consistent from the beginning we wouldn't have reason to suspect them

 

[Eddie99]

We can (respectfully) agree to disagree.

Aside from the typical readers of this thread/site - there are probably plenty of friends and family of the R's that visit this site. It's one thing to read theories about the case, that include aspersions on the family. It's quite another thing to read the needless, graphic and hurtful narratives.

Disgusting really.

I can't belive the moderators allow some of this to stay on here.

Lastly, there is a big difference between saying something in the normative and in the positive. People are looking at wrapping paper and pineapples and underwear and weaving these (probably meaningless) details into forensic glossolalia.

My kids left iced tea, and a half a bowl of popcorn on my kitchen counter last night. Good forbid something happened - what would these people concoct in their minds about that?

 

[Eddie99]

<modsnip>
If the R's had been truthful and consistent from the beginning we wouldn't have reason to suspect them

Example(s)?

 

[proust20]

Just a few of the many deceptions by the Rs:

JonBenet was asleep when put to bed Christmas night. The extra hair tie belies this.
Burke was asleep when the 911 call was placed.
John offered at least two explanations as to how he broke the basement window.
JR's bogus trip to the mail box on the 26th.
Patsy's claim that her son did not have Hi-Tec boots.
PR didn't remember why she phoned Dr. Beuf several times in one day.
PR insisted that Sundays were the only time spent on pageant activities.
JR's suddenly urgent meeting in GA which necessitated his flying out of state as his daughter's body was lying under the tree. At the hour he tried to get a flight out of CO, he had planned long before to be in MI.
The Rs firstly denied that the Maglite belonged to them; but, it was a gift from JAR.
The R's said that the scratches on the exterior door were fresh; but, a neighbor had noticed them previously.
Patsy said that she didn't read the RN before calling 911.


Et al.

 

[Eddie99]

What do any of those things have to do with the case, even if they are all 100% true - (which I don't think they are)

I read all the transcripts. I don't recall anything about a "urgent meeting" in Georgia.

*with calling the doctor: My son had mono 2 years ago. His throat was so swollen he could hardly breath (i think he had a bacterialthing too). I called the emergency line. We spoke
Several times, and he phoned in a prescription.

Now God forbid something happened - what would you make of that? Would it be a sign big my guilt?

 

[BOESP]

(snipped for focus) ...
I read all the transcripts. I don't recall anything about a "urgent meeting" in Georgia....

Here's a starter for finding out about the meeting in Georgia: JonBenet Ramsey Murder Case: The Denver Post

Also check post #312
Media Links Only
for an analysis on Patsy Ramsey and deception.

 

[Eddie99]

That doesn't say there was a "meeting". It says the family was going to go home to Atlanta.

I tried to imagine myself in that circumstance. I think I would have done the same thing.

I also think that if JR didn't think about getting the family out of Boulder the general consensus on the internet would be - "oh look he didn't even try to get his family out, because he knew who killed her"

As far as the language interpretation and body language. I'm just not sure about this stuff. Even in a couple of the cases that there is no doubt, like that watts deal. They had someone analyzing his body language. Now I think he is guilty all day long, but I don't know about the body language thing.

This article you attached - if anything shows that there was a propensity for the officals in Boulder to use the media as a weapon.

There is a 3+ hour YouTube of various interviews in this case. In one of them, the DA gets really testy, and says something to the effect of 'I'll leave and go tell the reporters what's going on here". That struck me as very unprofessional.

Another thing I noticed in the interviews is that JR seemed to appreciate that detective :Arndt. He seemed to "appreciate" her efforts to prep him for a potential ransom call.

This was before she went on TV with her claims that she thought she would have to kill him, and "counted off 18 rounds" because she didn't know if they would all be alive. Which was obviously unfounded. Which no one seems to mention. I couldn't find anything that stated she told/reported this to anyone else until her national TV interview.

Anyway -

Something else that I can't find anymore information on; the pineapple in the bowl.

I didn't see where they found any type of wrapper, can, or rind (I'm not sure what the outside of a pineapple is called). I don't know what that means, but it just odd.

 

[UKGuy]

That doesn't say there was a "meeting". It says the family was going to go home to Atlanta.

I tried to imagine myself in that circumstance. I think I would have done the same thing.

I also think that if JR didn't think about getting the family out of Boulder the general consensus on the internet would be - "oh look he didn't even try to get his family out, because he knew who killed her"

As far as the language interpretation and body language. I'm just not sure about this stuff. Even in a couple of the cases that there is no doubt, like that watts deal. They had someone analyzing his body language. Now I think he is guilty all day long, but I don't know about the body language thing.

This article you attached - if anything shows that there was a propensity for the officals in Boulder to use the media as a weapon.

There is a 3+ hour YouTube of various interviews in this case. In one of them, the DA gets really testy, and says something to the effect of 'I'll leave and go tell the reporters what's going on here". That struck me as very unprofessional.

Another thing I noticed in the interviews is that JR seemed to appreciate that detective :Arndt. He seemed to "appreciate" her efforts to prep him for a potential ransom call.

This was before she went on TV with her claims that she thought she would have to kill him, and "counted off 18 rounds" because she didn't know if they would all be alive. Which was obviously unfounded. Which no one seems to mention. I couldn't find anything that stated she told/reported this to anyone else until her national TV interview.

Anyway -

Something else that I can't find anymore information on; the pineapple in the bowl.

I didn't see where they found any type of wrapper, can, or rind (I'm not sure what the outside of a pineapple is called). I don't know what that means, but it just odd.

Eddie99,

I didn't see where they found any type of wrapper, can, or rind (I'm not sure what the outside of a pineapple is called). I don't know what that means, but it just odd.

BBM: Whatever, rest assured it was found and lab assayed as part of the autopsy. All your questions and skeptical queries have all been answered and documented.

Not much point in being asked to be spoon-fed then not approving of the diet.

You should source a recent book on the JonBenet case, e.g. Kolar's book is fine, available second hand on amazon, ebay or new, even your public library might have a copy.

.

 

[BOESP]

Not sure what happened to my post that linked A Candy Rose to this topic, but I'll try again. Anyone wanting information that can be gleaned on the Internet will find a lot of good links:

s-Flight755-15thStreet.htm

 

[Eddie99]

Eddie99,

BBM: Whatever, rest assured it was found and lab assayed as part of the autopsy. All your questions and skeptical queries have all been answered and documented.

Not much point in being asked to be spoon-fed then not approving of the diet.

You should source a recent book on the JonBenet case, e.g. Kolar's book is fine, available second hand on amazon, ebay or new, even your public library might have a copy.

.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying here. I realize they found a bowl of pineapple chucks. I'm saying that I didn't ever read where this came from.

If it was canned, or in a baggie, or fresh cut.

It had to come out of a container, where is the container?

 

[UKGuy]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying here. I realize they found a bowl of pineapple chucks. I'm saying that I didn't ever read where this came from.

If it was canned, or in a baggie, or fresh cut.

It had to come out of a container, where is the container?

Eddie99,
Patsy says the pineapple was purchased fresh from the supermarket, walmart, whoever.

The pineapple was fresh cut, used, then stored in the fridge by Patsy. Opening the fridge door and reaching up to fetch the pineapple was beyond JonBenet's ability.

So someone else fetched the precut bowl of pineapple from the fridge placing it on the the table in the breakfast bar. There are crime-scene photographs documenting this.

Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints were found on the pineapple bowl, go figure!

Like I say, get a good book such as Kolar's then you can move beyond your current scepticism.

.

 

[proust20]

The puzzling aspect of the pineapple is not from where it came; but rather, why was the bowl left out to be documented as part of the CS. The Rs didn't understand its significance. Burke was willfully ignorant with the psychologist, and refused to identify the pineapple in the bowl that had his fingerprints on it. Patsy objected to the size of the spoon, which is irrelevant. The Rs never could explain the autopsy findings other than to add it to their list of blatant denials.