Lies point us to the truth

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So I was reading Paula Woodward’s book We Have Your Daughter and took an interest in the photographs.

Particularly Burke's room, his decor is so linear its nearly post-modern, the wallpaper has a repeating helicopter or plane motif which dazzles the eyes.

Also there is a Christmas photo of Burke and JonBenét Ramsey and I thought I could see Burke's pajama bottoms which looked the same color as his pajama top. This photograph was in black and white, so I searched online and found this one:

Burke-Ramsey-with-JonBenet-at-Xmas.jpg


Which definitely shows Burke wearing Blue Pajama Bottoms which match his top.

Here is what we usually see published:
jonbenet.four.we.have.your.daughter.cropped.png

Note how its cropped, they invariably crop Burke Ramsey at the waist excluding his pajama bottoms, likely a coincidental feature, but it had me wondering?

Why does this matter, well Kolar claims there was a pair of Fecally Soiled pajama bottoms found on JonBenet's bedroom floor.

The above photograph was obviously taken Christmas Morning, so unless he changed his pajamas on Christmas night, then the above pajama bottoms are what Burke Ramsey would have worn on Christmas Night?

So if we can find out the color of the Fecally Soiled pajama bottoms found on JonBenet's bedroom floor, then we can compare them with the color in the photograph.

Not rocket science, not a smoking gun, but if they are Blue, then its game on!

.

UKGuy,
I found this:
THOMAS HANEY: So if we start off with photo number 1, can you just describe that and talk to us about that. PATSY RAMSEY: Well, this is JonBenet's bedroom and this is the door outside to outside little den. Her bathroom would have been back behind the door. This is the bed she was sleeping in. This is the second twin bed. THOMAS HANEY: Are there any other things in photo number 1 that you can identify, say on top of this trunk there is some blue clothing item. Light blue.

I’m still searching further.
 
UKGuy,
I found this:
THOMAS HANEY: So if we start off with photo number 1, can you just describe that and talk to us about that. PATSY RAMSEY: Well, this is JonBenet's bedroom and this is the door outside to outside little den. Her bathroom would have been back behind the door. This is the bed she was sleeping in. This is the second twin bed. THOMAS HANEY: Are there any other things in photo number 1 that you can identify, say on top of this trunk there is some blue clothing item. Light blue.

I’m still searching further.

What page # is that?
 
UKGuy,
I found this:
THOMAS HANEY: So if we start off with photo number 1, can you just describe that and talk to us about that. PATSY RAMSEY: Well, this is JonBenet's bedroom and this is the door outside to outside little den. Her bathroom would have been back behind the door. This is the bed she was sleeping in. This is the second twin bed. THOMAS HANEY: Are there any other things in photo number 1 that you can identify, say on top of this trunk there is some blue clothing item. Light blue.

I’m still searching further.

Rain on my Parade,
Yes, such a pity he never described the clothing item as blue bottoms or whatever? Worth keeping in mind though, in case you ever have chance to chat with Kolar, say online, you can ask him what the the color of the discarded bottoms were?

Also the clothing item is on top of this trunk and Kolar reported the bottoms lying on JonBenet's bedroom floor.

.
 
[
Rain on my Parade,
Yes, such a pity he never described the clothing item as blue bottoms or whatever? Worth keeping in mind though, in case you ever have chance to chat with Kolar, say online, you can ask him what the the color of the discarded bottoms were?

Also the clothing item is on top of this trunk and Kolar reported the bottoms lying on JonBenet's bedroom floor.

.
UKGuy,
I know we have discussed this but I went back and reviewed JB outfit, description and the last photo taken of her. I believe the Black jacket she wore over the white gap top is on her other bed. If you look at the photos you will notice the snaps on it. Perhaps this is what made the mark on her face by her ear. The pants are with her shoes just inside her doorway. It looks like white lace on the bottom edges of the pants.

About the pants on the floor. The only item’s I see on the floor of interest other then all the pony tail holders is the purple object (there are 2) by her Christmas tree. As well as what looks to me like another pillow case (beauty and the beast) behind the left hand side of her headboard. *Go to Media links and my last post there for reference.

Sure, I’ll see what Kolar is willing to cough up, lol!
 
icedtea4me,
Acandyrose rose, BPD Crime Scene Photo Discussion - JonBenet's Bedroom. First notation.

Rain on my Parade,,

Is the photo you are referencing?
005jonbenetbedXXLARGE.jpg


Or this one?
000jonbenetsbedroom.jpg


Oh in case I forget, check out Burke's taste in wallpaper:
042burkebedroom.jpg



.
 
Last edited:
[

UKGuy,
I know we have discussed this but I went back and reviewed JB outfit, description and the last photo taken of her. I believe the Black jacket she wore over the white gap top is on her other bed. If you look at the photos you will notice the snaps on it. Perhaps this is what made the mark on her face by her ear. The pants are with her shoes just inside her doorway. It looks like white lace on the bottom edges of the pants.

About the pants on the floor. The only item’s I see on the floor of interest other then all the pony tail holders is the purple object (there are 2) by her Christmas tree. As well as what looks to me like another pillow case (beauty and the beast) behind the left hand side of her headboard. *Go to Media links and my last post there for reference.

Sure, I’ll see what Kolar is willing to cough up, lol!

Rain on my Parade,
From memory JonBenet wore a black velvet waistcoat to match her pants. You could be right about the snaps and the marks on her face, others have said it was Patsy's rings?

The pants are with her shoes just inside her doorway. It looks like white lace on the bottom edges of the pants.
Did Patsy not ID her black velvet pants as lying on the spare bed?

That crime-scene video takes forever to unfold, I'll have to stream a copy for personal use.

.
 
I found another inconsistency in PR and JR statements about JB coat she was wearing to the White’s Christmas party.

TOM HANEY: Photo 63.
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh.
13 TRIP DEMUTH: Which vehicle did you take to
14 the lake, was that the white Jaquar, is that what that
15 is?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Yeah, I'm almost
17 sure. Yeah, I think it is. And there is JonBenet's
18 coat back there.
19 TRIP DEMUTH: Is that the coat she wore that
20 night?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. I think so.


0114
1 MIKE KANE: In terms of the button on the
2 garage door, is it on the interior of the garage
3 or the interior of the house?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: I think it's on the interior
5 of the house.
6 MIKE KANE: So you can be fully in the house
7 before you push that button?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: I believe so, as I recall,
9 yeah.
10 So, anyway, I took her upstairs, laid her on the
11 bed. Usually what I would do, and I remember
12 either taking her shoes off or taking her coat
13 off,
kind of getting her sort of started and then
14 Patsy took over getting her into bed. I went down
15 stairs --

JR states he also carried JB inside the house, pushed the button to close the garage door and carried JB up the spiral staircase. JB weighted 45lbs. I have stated in earlier posts that it is very hard to walk up A spiral staircase without holding onto the rail; plus carrying 45 lbs. It also seems virtually impossible to step over papers laid out on the rungs. Just saying.
So, where was JB’s coat? Probably in the backseat of the car since PR is identifying a police photo.
 
Did Patsy not ID her black velvet pants as lying on the spare bed?

UKGuy,
THOMAS HANEY: Okay. Anything else on the bed? PATSY RAMSEY: Well, this looks like a little -- the little pot holder square she was making. This multi-colored thing here. This black thing I can't (INAUDIBLE). Oh, that's sort of looks like it might be the little velvet dress (INAUDIBLE). Little silver snaps. TRIP DeMUTH: When did she last wear that? PATSY RAMSEY: She wore that to the Whites on the 25th. - (0255-21) THOMAS HANEY: Well, it was documented also on video and I believe there is a description of what's in each room.
DOI (HB) Page 7:

“She wanted JonBenet to wear a red turtleneck with her black velvet pants so that mother and daughter would be dressed alike, but JonBenet wanted to wear the complete outfit she’d chosen. Finally Mom gave in. JonBenet put on her outfit with her black boots which zipped up the front and had a bit of animal print trim along the top. JonBenet loved to dress up. Burke could care less.”
upload_2020-8-10_18-10-39.png


Apparently, the black velvet pants are on the chest @ the end of JB bed:
upload_2020-8-10_18-12-6.png


Right there on the floor out in the open is a large sized canvas duffel bag (blue or purple depending on lighting accuracy). It appears to be empty, open side down, with the cardboard base liner laying on the floor beside it.
upload_2020-8-10_18-14-48.png
 

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UKGuy,
THOMAS HANEY: Okay. Anything else on the bed? PATSY RAMSEY: Well, this looks like a little -- the little pot holder square she was making. This multi-colored thing here. This black thing I can't (INAUDIBLE). Oh, that's sort of looks like it might be the little velvet dress (INAUDIBLE). Little silver snaps. TRIP DeMUTH: When did she last wear that? PATSY RAMSEY: She wore that to the Whites on the 25th. - (0255-21) THOMAS HANEY: Well, it was documented also on video and I believe there is a description of what's in each room.
DOI (HB) Page 7:

“She wanted JonBenet to wear a red turtleneck with her black velvet pants so that mother and daughter would be dressed alike, but JonBenet wanted to wear the complete outfit she’d chosen. Finally Mom gave in. JonBenet put on her outfit with her black boots which zipped up the front and had a bit of animal print trim along the top. JonBenet loved to dress up. Burke could care less.” View attachment 259175

Apparently, the black velvet pants are on the chest @ the end of JB bed: View attachment 259176

Right there on the floor out in the open is a large sized canvas duffel bag (blue or purple depending on lighting accuracy). It appears to be empty, open side down, with the cardboard base liner laying on the floor beside it. View attachment 259179

Rain on my Parade,
Yes, John changed his story quite few times. I think BPD were OK with JonBenet's clothing, they seemed to have identified it all, they appeared to be running through these photograph viewing sessions just to slip in the odd question to lock the Ramsey's into their version of events, e.g. no intruder brought the size-12's into the house.

Could the canvas duffel bag have been used to bring stuff, e.g. Christmas gifts back upstairs?

From memory JonBenet's socks were white laced?

JonBenet IMO had the better dress sense, i.e. white with black, red and black seems to clash?

Also red is traditionally an emotion arousing color, representing danger in nature, red berries, etc.

The thing about JonBenet's red turtleneck is if Patsy relented and JonBenet never wore it, why was it left in the bathroom balled up, and not put back in a drawer or on a hanger?

.
 
Yes, John changed his story quite few times. I think BPD were OK with JonBenet's clothing, they seemed to have identified it all, they appeared to be running through these photograph viewing sessions just to slip in the odd question to lock the Ramsey's into their version of events, e.g. no intruder brought the size-12's into the house.

UKGuy,
I had another light bulb moment about the size 12 bloomies. Bloomingdales wrapped the Christmas presents for free. So Jennie’s size 12 would have been wrapped and sent with the other presents to the house. I’ve always seen this in my mind, yet failed to connect that simple dot.

Could the canvas duffel bag have been used to bring stuff, e.g. Christmas gifts back upstairs?
It appears as though this is what could have happened. Transport is what a canvas bag is for after all.


From memory JonBenet's socks were white laced?

JonBenet IMO had the better dress sense, i.e. white with black, red and black seems to clash?

Also red is traditionally an emotion arousing color, representing danger in nature, red berries, etc.

Red and black do clash unless it’s for a man. i.e. JR scarf lying on the wet bar. I personally love red as in in the kitchen. With black and white.

The thing about JonBenet's red turtleneck is if Patsy relented and JonBenet never wore it, why was it left in the bathroom balled up, and not put back in a drawer or on a hanger?

Or, if PR felt so strongly about the sweater why not place it on the other twin bed for the next mornings departure. Or dress JB in it that night. Perhaps, she did.
 
UKGuy,
I had another light bulb moment about the size 12 bloomies. Bloomingdales wrapped the Christmas presents for free. So Jennie’s size 12 would have been wrapped and sent with the other presents to the house. I’ve always seen this in my mind, yet failed to connect that simple dot.


It appears as though this is what could have happened. Transport is what a canvas bag is for after all.




Red and black do clash unless it’s for a man. i.e. JR scarf lying on the wet bar. I personally love red as in in the kitchen. With black and white.



Or, if PR felt so strongly about the sweater why not place it on the other twin bed for the next mornings departure. Or dress JB in it that night. Perhaps, she did.

Rain on my Parade,
I had another light bulb moment about the size 12 bloomies. Bloomingdales wrapped the Christmas presents for free. So Jennie’s size 12 would have been wrapped and sent with the other presents to the house. I’ve always seen this in my mind, yet failed to connect that simple dot.
This is a big topic:

Atlanta 2000 , Patsy Interview Excerpt
18 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Well, let's start
19 with what - I will make it very simple for
20 you, Mrs. Ramsey. What information are you
21 in possession of or what do you know about
22 the underwear that your daughter was wearing
23 at the time she was found murdered?
24 A. I have heard that she had on a
25 pair of Bloomi's that said Wednesday on them.
0078
1 Q. The underwear that she was
2 wearing, that is Bloomi's panties, do you
3 know where they come from as far as what
4 store?
5 A. Bloomingdales in New York.
6 Q. Who purchased those?
7 A. I did.
8 Q. Do you recall when you purchased
9 them?
10 A. It was, I think, November of '96.


Atlanta 2000 , Patsy Interview Excerpt
2 Q. Which of those two trips did you
3 purchase the Bloomi's?
4 A. The first trip.
5 Q. Was it something that was selected
6 by JonBenet?
7 A. I believe so.
8 Q. Was it your intention, when you
9 purchased those, for those to be for her,
10 not for some third party as a gift?
11 A. I bought some things that were
12 gifts and some things for her. So I
13 don't --
14 Q. Just so I am clear, though, it is
15 your best recollection that the purchase of
16 the underpants, the Bloomi's days of the
17 week, was something that you bought for her,
18 whether it was just I am buying underwear
19 for my kids or these are special, here's a
20 present, that doesn't matter, but it was your
21 intention that she would wear those?
22 A. Well, I think that I bought a
23 package of the -- they came in a package of
24 Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
25 I think I bought a package to give to my
0081
1 niece.
2 Q. Which niece was that?
3 A. Jenny Davis.
4 Q. They came in, if you recall, do
5 you remember that they come in kind of a
6 plastic see-through plastic container.
7 A. Right.
8 Q. They are rolled up?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. So if I understand you correctly,
11 you bought one package for Jenny Davis, your
12 niece, and one for JonBenet?
13 A. I am not sure if I bought one or
14 two.
15 Q. Do you remember what size they
16 were?
17 A. Not exactly.
Note how Patsy states the underwear was selected by JonBenet patently a size-6 set.


Atlanta 2000 , Patsy Interview Excerpt
12 Q. Okay. I am slightly confused,
13 and I would like this clarified. When I
14 first started to ask you about the purchase
15 of the panties in November, I got the
16 impression that you were somewhat unclear as
17 to whether you bought two sets or one.
18 In follow-up questions, I got the
19 impression that you felt confident that you
20 only bought one. Do you know?
21 A. I really can't remember.
22 Q. Do you recall that you did -- you
23 never mailed this pair out to --
24 A. Jenny, yes.
25 Q. Okay. So if there was an
0112
1 unopened package, it would have been left in
2 the house?
3 A. Yes.
That means

Atlanta 2000 , Patsy Interview Excerpt
11 Q. And I will just state a fact
12 here. I mean, there were 15 pair of panties
13 taken out of, by the police, out of
14 JonBenet's panty drawer in her bathroom. Is
15 that where she kept -
16 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
17 Q. -- where you were describing that
18 they were just put in that drawer?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. And every one of those was
21 either a size four or a size six. Okay?
22 Would that have been about the size pair of
23 panties that she wore when she was six years
24 old?
25 A. I would say more like six to
0094
1 eight. There were probably some in there
2 that were too small.
3 Q. Okay. But not size 12 to 14?
4 A. Not typically, no.
5 MR. KANE: Okay.
6 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) And you
7 understand the reason we are asking this, we
8 want to make sure that this intruder did not
9 bring these panties with him, this was
10 something --
11 A. Right.
12 Q. - that was in the house.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And we are clear that, as far as
15 you know, that is something that was in this
16 house?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. -- that belonged to your daughter,
19 these panties?
20 A. Correct.
Patsy is locked into purchasing and relocating the size-12's.

So if Patsy purchased two sets of Bloomingdales one in size-12 for her niece Jenny and one in size-6 for JonBenet, this should mean there were two sets of Bloomingdale underwear in the Ramsey house?

If Patsy purchased two sets of size-12 underwear then there should still have been a size-12 set remaining in the house over and above the set that Patsy put in JonBenet's underwear drawer.

Yet the investigators stated:
20 Q. Okay. And every one of those was
21 either a size four or a size six. Okay?
i.e. No size-12's.

Which suggests the Bloomingdale's Wednesday size-12's on JonBenet replaced a Bloomingdale's Wednesday size-6 pair purchased by Patsy during her November trip to New York as selected by JonBenet?

How could JonBenet select a set and Patsy select a set for Jenny and there not be two new sets of underwear in the house?

So is the wrapping you think the size-12's came in?
12261996foaschwartz.jpg


JonBenet with the FAO Schwartz gift wrapping in the background:
12251996christmasmorning.gif


Bear in mind Patsy said she opened the gifts after wrapping them, duh!
 
Rain on my Parade,

This is a big topic:

Atlanta 2000 , Patsy Interview Excerpt



Atlanta 2000 , Patsy Interview Excerpt

Note how Patsy states the underwear was selected by JonBenet patently a size-6 set.


Atlanta 2000 , Patsy Interview Excerpt

That means

Atlanta 2000 , Patsy Interview Excerpt

Patsy is locked into purchasing and relocating the size-12's.

So if Patsy purchased two sets of Bloomingdales one in size-12 for her niece Jenny and one in size-6 for JonBenet, this should mean there were two sets of Bloomingdale underwear in the Ramsey house?

If Patsy purchased two sets of size-12 underwear then there should still have been a size-12 set remaining in the house over and above the set that Patsy put in JonBenet's underwear drawer.

Yet the investigators stated:

i.e. No size-12's.

Which suggests the Bloomingdale's Wednesday size-12's on JonBenet replaced a Bloomingdale's Wednesday size-6 pair purchased by Patsy during her November trip to New York as selected by JonBenet?

How could JonBenet select a set and Patsy select a set for Jenny and there not be two new sets of underwear in the house?

So is the wrapping you think the size-12's came in?
12261996foaschwartz.jpg


JonBenet with the FAO Schwartz gift wrapping in the background:
12251996christmasmorning.gif


Bear in mind Patsy said she opened the gifts after wrapping them, duh!
That’s FAO Schwarz gift wrap not Bloomingdales! That was their signature design in 1996 on all boxes as well as paper, little wooden horses
 
Rain on my Parade,

This is a big topic:

Atlanta 2000 , Patsy Interview Excerpt



Atlanta 2000 , Patsy Interview Excerpt

Note how Patsy states the underwear was selected by JonBenet patently a size-6 set.


Atlanta 2000 , Patsy Interview Excerpt

That means

Atlanta 2000 , Patsy Interview Excerpt

Patsy is locked into purchasing and relocating the size-12's.

So if Patsy purchased two sets of Bloomingdales one in size-12 for her niece Jenny and one in size-6 for JonBenet, this should mean there were two sets of Bloomingdale underwear in the Ramsey house?

If Patsy purchased two sets of size-12 underwear then there should still have been a size-12 set remaining in the house over and above the set that Patsy put in JonBenet's underwear drawer.

Yet the investigators stated:

i.e. No size-12's.

Which suggests the Bloomingdale's Wednesday size-12's on JonBenet replaced a Bloomingdale's Wednesday size-6 pair purchased by Patsy during her November trip to New York as selected by JonBenet?

How could JonBenet select a set and Patsy select a set for Jenny and there not be two new sets of underwear in the house?

So is the wrapping you think the size-12's came in?
12261996foaschwartz.jpg


JonBenet with the FAO Schwartz gift wrapping in the background:
12251996christmasmorning.gif


Bear in mind Patsy said she opened the gifts after wrapping them, duh!

UKGuy,
If your a loyalist member they gift wrap for free. If you are not they wrap in a white box with a ribbon. Prior to 1996 Bloomingdales had been in bankruptcy court for the previous two years. In order to beef up sales they hired extra help with gift wrapping to satisfy customers long wait times (while they shopped). I’m sure PR took every opportunity to not have to do something if she didn’t have to. I still believe Jenny’s bloomies were with the rest of the presents that were not mailed or delivered prior to Christmas, not in JB drawer as she stated.
 
UKGuy,
If your a loyalist member they gift wrap for free. If you are not they wrap in a white box with a ribbon. Prior to 1996 Bloomingdales had been in bankruptcy court for the previous two years. In order to beef up sales they hired extra help with gift wrapping to satisfy customers long wait times (while they shopped). I’m sure PR took every opportunity to not have to do something if she didn’t have to. I still believe Jenny’s bloomies were with the rest of the presents that were not mailed or delivered prior to Christmas, not in JB drawer as she stated.

Rain on my Parade,
Depends, depends ... JonBenet might have wanted her purchase immediately? They were not a large item so could easily have been put in a shopping bag?

The thing about the size-12's is that some of Patsy's facts will have been invented.

So gift-wrapped by Bloomingdale's or not once Patsy arrived back in Boulder did she unwrap both gifts and give JonBenet her size-6 set and put the size-12 set in a drawer to be dealt with later?

Assuming Patsy eventually decided to gift wrap the size-12's for Jenny, say in the basement as she claims, then she does not need to open them again as surely she will have tagged or marked them in some way, so to identify them, even if its by using different patterned paper?

Also consider they may never have been gift wrapped at all, they might have been left to last, but never dealt with due to events?

Patsy's story regarding the size-12's, is after the fact, designed to explain the postmortem evidence, not whatever really happened?


.
 
Rain on my Parade,
Depends, depends ... JonBenet might have wanted her purchase immediately? They were not a large item so could easily have been put in a shopping bag?

The thing about the size-12's is that some of Patsy's facts will have been invented.

So gift-wrapped by Bloomingdale's or not once Patsy arrived back in Boulder did she unwrap both gifts and give JonBenet her size-6 set and put the size-12 set in a drawer to be dealt with later?

Assuming Patsy eventually decided to gift wrap the size-12's for Jenny, say in the basement as she claims, then she does not need to open them again as surely she will have tagged or marked them in some way, so to identify them, even if its by using different patterned paper?

Also consider they may never have been gift wrapped at all, they might have been left to last, but never dealt with due to events?

Patsy's story regarding the size-12's, is after the fact, designed to explain the postmortem evidence, not whatever really happened?


.

UKGuy,
I don’t know? Like I said, “I have always seen the bloomies as being wrapped”. I won’t go into that any further. Don’t want to freak anybody out. I realize PR wasn’t the best housekeeper. With that being said she had a lot of Christmas gifts going to different people. There had to be some sort of arranging system. Perhaps in the butlers pantry and/or the basement. As a mother, she knew the size 12’s were to big for JB. Whoever dressed her in them did so in my opinion because they were within arms reach of the staging. Yes, they could have been brought up from the basement in the duffle bag.
Of course we can not rely on what actually happened with what PR says. We both know this.
 
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