Lies point us to the truth

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UKGuy

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UKGuy,
Exactly!



Dr. Phil did leave that comment out by BR. From my understanding BR was made to attend a lot of JB activities and hated it.

How convenient they have the same attorney. It’s no wonder I’m not a fan of Dr. Phil!

DR PHIL: OK. This is what really bothers me about this. And in interrogation, police have the right to lie to a suspect. They do. This went beyond that.

They put into the media that there were no footprints in the snow. What they failed to mention is there was no snow. [AUDIENCE laughter]

OK this is the window that you saw Lou Smit, this is a picture taken the morning of the crime. There's no snow!

So all of these people that on the internet, all of these years have been saying that you debunk the intruder theory because there were no footprints in the snow -- THERE WAS NO SNOW!

The Boulder Police they said under oath they were doing this to put pressure on the Ramseys so they would come forward and confess.

Yep, they forgot about the snow in the front yard. There was enough coverage to leave tracks in the snow.



Great point!



Yes AH is a criminal in his own right for his failure to file the true bills in this case IMO.
And yes, let’s get that spotlight off BR whatever it takes. JR stated this was his last interview. We shall see. Perhaps that is one reason he has shoved JAR in the limelight.



Could be BDI. That was the only thing I walked away from that interview with and liked. Dr. Phil stated that some people believe that BDI and the parents sacrificed the one for the other. It was posed at a question to BR. BR replies let the evidence or lack there of speak for itself. Okay, let’s open up that vault!

I wonder if BR will fail that interview as well? I’d bet my stimulus check on it.

Sorry, I stopped my previous post. I could only take so much of that interview.

Rain on my Parade,
BR hated pageants, who said that? Reminds me of Patsy saying JR did not know JonBenet was appearing in Las Vegas, or would not approve, i.e. he is so moral, reads the good book, etc.

Dr. Phil stated that some people believe that BDI and the parents sacrificed the one for the other. It was posed at a question to BR. BR replies let the evidence or lack there of speak for itself. Okay, let’s open up that vault!
Interesting reply by BR since does he think there is nothing to connect him to JonBenet, e.g. fecally stained pajama bottoms?

I reckon JAR has gone public to check out what Lou Smit left behind, e.g. anything dodgy?

JR or BR doing this would have the tabloids crawling all over the story.

I reckon its obvious one of the parents did sacrifice themself to save whomever assaulted JonBenet, i.e. does not take three people to kill a 6-year old.

BR is linked by forensic evidence to the breakfast bar and the wine-cellar and according to BR's and the parent's version of events he should not be so linked.

The case should be JDI with PR assisting, a classic domestic homicide, but a deep dive on the evidence suggests actually it might be BDI?

How can it be PDI with Patsy trailing all her forensic markers in the wine-cellar and on JonBenet, including in her own paint-tote. How can that be called staging?

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Rain on my Parade

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Rain on my Parade,
BR hated pageants, who said that? Reminds me of Patsy saying JR did not know JonBenet was appearing in Las Vegas, or would not approve, i.e. he is so moral, reads the good book, etc.

UKGuy,
I read that BR disliked attending JB events as they were boring. I do not recall what book it was from. When I read the statement I thought to myself : “I don’t blame him.

Interesting reply by BR since does he think there is nothing to connect him to JonBenet, e.g. fecally stained pajama bottoms?

I reckon JAR has gone public to check out what Lou Smit left behind, e.g. anything dodgy?

JR or BR doing this would have the tabloids crawling all over the story.

I reckon its obvious one of the parents did sacrifice themself to save whomever assaulted JonBenet, i.e. does not take three people to kill a 6-year old.

BR is linked by forensic evidence to the breakfast bar and the wine-cellar and according to BR's and the parent's version of events he should not be so linked.

The case should be JDI with PR assisting, a classic domestic homicide, but a deep dive on the evidence suggests actually it might be BDI?

How can it be PDI with Patsy trailing all her forensic markers in the wine-cellar and on JonBenet, including in her own paint-tote. How can that be called staging?

All three of them were involved that night. Why did BR lay in bed with a police officer coming into his room to check on him (all the while pretending to be asleep), a house full of people and not leave his room or ask any questions? Children are full of questions, normally. JR fiber evidence in JB labia and PR fiber evidence all over the place.
 

UKGuy

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UKGuy,
I read that BR disliked attending JB events as they were boring. I do not recall what book it was from. When I read the statement I thought to myself : “I don’t blame him.



All three of them were involved that night. Why did BR lay in bed with a police officer coming into his room to check on him (all the while pretending to be asleep), a house full of people and not leave his room or ask any questions? Children are full of questions, normally. JR fiber evidence in JB labia and PR fiber evidence all over the place.

Rain on my Parade,
BR being bored at pageants might just be for public consumption?

BR lay in bed because he was patently told to do so, i.e. And Do Not Get Up!

BR was ring-fenced from any interaction with anyone, even the guests, FW made BR's bed.

What does that tell you, well minimally BR knows stuff because the parents do not want him talking with anyone?

The JR's fiber evidence is normally good enough to charge anyone for sexual assault, never mind a homicide charge.

His fiber evidence being not only on JonBenet's labia but also located in the wine-cellar links JR directly to JonBenet.

JR's fibers are distinct from your run of the mill USofA fabrics as they originated in Israel, anyone care to work out the probability that some intruder purchased the same make of shirt?

Similarly with PR fibers all over the wine-cellar and JonBenet, meaning she and JR are directly linked to the wine-cellar and given the nature of the evidence suggests they both played a part in staging JonBenet?

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Rain on my Parade

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Rain on my Parade,
BR being bored at pageants might just be for public consumption?

UKGuy,
I highly doubt it. I can’t imagine my brothers being forced to go to my ballet classes! BR would rather be playing his Nintendo. Who are we kidding?


BR lay in bed because he was patently told to do so, i.e. And Do Not Get Up!

Of coarse he is doing what he is told but why? So he doesn’t talk to anyone? Well that changed once he was out of the house and at the Whites. Perhaps a better reason is they didn’t want him seeing JB deceased when JR planned on finding her and therefore shuttled him off.

What does that tell you, well minimally BR knows stuff because the parents do not want him talking with anyone?

The JR's fiber evidence is normally good enough to charge anyone for sexual assault, never mind a homicide charge.

His fiber evidence being not only on JonBenet's labia but also located in the wine-cellar links JR directly to JonBenet.

JR's fibers are distinct from your run of the mill USofA fabrics as they originated in Israel, anyone care to work out the probability that some intruder purchased the same make of shirt?

Similarly with PR fibers all over the wine-cellar and JonBenet, meaning she and JR are directly linked to the wine-cellar and given the nature of the evidence suggests they both played a part in staging JonBenet?

So, you agree that all three were involved?
 

UKGuy

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UKGuy,
I highly doubt it. I can’t imagine my brothers being forced to go to my ballet classes! BR would rather be playing his Nintendo. Who are we kidding?




Of coarse he is doing what he is told but why? So he doesn’t talk to anyone? Well that changed once he was out of the house and at the Whites. Perhaps a better reason is they didn’t want him seeing JB deceased when JR planned on finding her and therefore shuttled him off.



So, you agree that all three were involved?

Rain on my Parade,
BR would rather be playing his Nintendo. Who are we kidding?
He can do both, BR and JonBenet were closer than folks think.

Perhaps a better reason is they didn’t want him seeing JB deceased when JR planned on finding her and therefore shuttled him off.
Sure but this is your sensible opinion trumping criminal reality. If the case is BDI then he was already present when JonBenet was assaulted and close to death, i.e. no staging!

btw I used to have the same opinion, but that was before BDI went mainstream.

Lots of the case in the public domain is right out of PR or JR's mouth during interviews where they knew what impression they were trying to convey, check out Patsy's remarks about JonBenet appearing in Las Vegas, you know that place that hosts strippers and prostitutes.


So, you agree that all three were involved?
Sure I'm on record saying all three Ramsey's colluded postmortem to stage JonBenet's homicide.

Given what we know now, how could it be otherwise?

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proust20

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There is no need to parse the latest propaganda from Team R. The hoax began with the RN and the 911. All that the R's ever are able to offer is in furtherance of their hoax. BR w Dr. P was on a par with exhibiting JB in the pageants. However, this instance of shoving your child into the limelight cannot be due to PR.

I don't mind silly questions like: "Is this your mother's handwriting?", as the response can't be known beforehand given this case history. What is annoying is how the Rs are never asked pertinent, probing questions. The interviews are slanted from the outset. Doubtlessly, the Rs should not withstand the questions which the posters here should pose.

The most egregious oversight by MSM is that the Rs are never asked for their narrative of events after arriving home on Christmas night. Firstly, I'd like to know by what means did the intruder(s) arrive at the residence? Surely, after 25 years of their own private intense investigations, the family should have better answers then someone, somewhere, somehow, sometime. How ironic that PR referred to OJ!
 
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Rain on my Parade

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Rain on my Parade,
BR being bored at pageants might just be for public consumption?

UKGuy,
Burke Ramsey, Police Interview, June 10-12 1998
DS (Detective Dan Schuler)

Burke on Pageants/Dance Lessons

DS: What about, you know, when you'd get stuck having to go to JonBenet's things? Those weren't the most fun things. Those were pretty boring, huh?

BR: Yeah.

DS: Did you ever have to go to, when she had dance lessons and things like that?

BR: Yeah, I had to go to ballet and stuff.

DS: Did you? How did you like that?

BR: It didn't last that long but I was thankful. It was boring, the short time it lasted. It was really bad, the short time it lasted.

DS: What else did you have to go to that was really boring? You know, with JonBenet, when she had to do it.

BR: That's about it.
 

UKGuy

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UKGuy,
Burke Ramsey, Police Interview, June 10-12 1998
DS (Detective Dan Schuler)

Burke on Pageants/Dance Lessons

DS: What about, you know, when you'd get stuck having to go to JonBenet's things? Those weren't the most fun things. Those were pretty boring, huh?

BR: Yeah.

DS: Did you ever have to go to, when she had dance lessons and things like that?

BR: Yeah, I had to go to ballet and stuff.

DS: Did you? How did you like that?

BR: It didn't last that long but I was thankful. It was boring, the short time it lasted. It was really bad, the short time it lasted.

DS: What else did you have to go to that was really boring? You know, with JonBenet, when she had to do it.

BR: That's about it.

Rain on my Parade,
Those are leading questions by Detective Dan Schuler. If the case is BDI then BR will just roll with them.

Assuming BDI, BR does not mind tagging along with the pageant crew. If he gets bored he can play some nintendo.

Big clue in BR's final reply BR: That's about it. Not really there is more but its secret so he is not telling.

So: BR: That's about it. Do I believe that, not for one minute. BR did not mind sharing bedrooms with JonBenet.

Regular pageant outings are not going to faze BR, If BDI then maybe he could anticipate opportunities.

Remember he was JonBenet's best friend.

.
 

Rain on my Parade

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Rain on my Parade,
Those are leading questions by Detective Dan Schuler. If the case is BDI then BR will just roll with them.

Assuming BDI, BR does not mind tagging along with the pageant crew. If he gets bored he can play some nintendo.

Big clue in BR's final reply BR: That's about it. Not really there is more but its secret so he is not telling.

So: BR: That's about it. Do I believe that, not for one minute. BR did not mind sharing bedrooms with JonBenet.

Regular pageant outings are not going to faze BR, If BDI then maybe he could anticipate opportunities.

Remember he was JonBenet's best friend.

.

UKGuy,
I was merely pointing out that BR stated he disliked going to JB’s activities here.

Sure, there is a secret he is not telling. After all he is discovered discussing how JB was strangled with his best friend (DS) a few days after the murder. And he knew what happened in his account with the Dr. a few weeks after the murder. And yes, there were other things going on in their bedrooms.

BR was involved in JB’s murder sequence. I am not completely sure what part he took in the crime. Depends on when the head bash occurred, IMO.

Do you think BR was JB best friend because he was allowed friends over where JB was to busy for that?
 

proust20

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"That's about it." is a terse, abrupt reply worthy of his Mom. I did not realize that JB and BR were besties, not just siblings.
 

GoBuckeyes

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"That's about it." is a terse, abrupt reply worthy of his Mom. I did not realize that JB and BR were besties, not just siblings.

"That's about it" is always a red flag phrase in my mind. It signals that's not at all it, and, more importantly, the most significant details about "it" have been omitted.
 

UKGuy

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UKGuy,
I was merely pointing out that BR stated he disliked going to JB’s activities here.

Sure, there is a secret he is not telling. After all he is discovered discussing how JB was strangled with his best friend (DS) a few days after the murder. And he knew what happened in his account with the Dr. a few weeks after the murder. And yes, there were other things going on in their bedrooms.

BR was involved in JB’s murder sequence. I am not completely sure what part he took in the crime. Depends on when the head bash occurred, IMO.

Do you think BR was JB best friend because he was allowed friends over where JB was to busy for that?

Rain on my Parade,
I was merely pointing out that BR stated he disliked going to JB’s activities here.
Nobody put a gun to his head and said, you will enjoy the pageants!

Sure, there is a secret he is not telling. After all he is discovered discussing how JB was strangled with his best friend (DS) a few days after the murder. And he knew what happened in his account with the Dr. a few weeks after the murder. And yes, there were other things going on in their bedrooms.
Excellent summary. He should never have known all those homicide details, he knew specific stuff, as Kolar outlines in his book, that went beyond mere aquaintance with the case, i.e. all the public domain facts released into the ether. Then there is his penknife left at the crime-scene, or was this Patsy framing BR? Along with his footprint again left at the crime-scene, although with no timestamp, it should not really be there.

BR has his secrets, as does the Ramsey family including the Paughs. They remind me of the Medici's when asked about how they accumulated all their wealth and consolidated their power in Florence, Cosimo Medici replied Secret Things, that is code for beneath the table deals, running multiple copies of the financial books, blackmail, murder, etc. Not far removed from today's political lobbies that splash the cash to get the laws they want enacted.

BR was involved in JB’s murder sequence. I am not completely sure what part he took in the crime. Depends on when the head bash occurred, IMO.
I agree. Although the head bash might represent a failed staging attempt by BR or one of the parents? Neither the parents or BR needed to apply blunt force to detain JonBenet, she could be restrained by the use of arms alone.

One interpretation of Kolar's take on a BDI is that of a child driven by a compulsion, e.g. fecal fetish, whilst also engaging in playing doctor?

Kolar suggests the fecally soiled pajama bottoms left on JonBenet's bedroom floor could be BR's due to their size. This would be consistent with a perimortem or/and postmortem sexual assault on JonBenet, e.g. Digital Penetration as outlined by Coroner Meyer.

The rest is staging by BR and the parents, also explains why they never wanted BR's medical records to be produced as evidence.

You can still have a standard BDI homicide without the fetish or postmortem speculation. It's a straight forward sexual assault followed with a head injury then an asphyxiation as part of the parents staging, i.e. the KISS version of Kolar's ideas.

Do you think BR was JB best friend because he was allowed friends over where JB was to busy for that?
JonBenet was deemed to young to have sleepovers. Yet she was a pageant star, so periodically was allowed to join in BR's, more secret stuff here.

.
 

UKGuy

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"That's about it." is a terse, abrupt reply worthy of his Mom. I did not realize that JB and BR were besties, not just siblings.

proust20,
JonBenet never really had anyone else in the world to turn to other than Burke, she trusted him implicitly.

The shared bedrooms together, played doctor together according to LHP the housemaid who walked in on them, it was all so normal JonBenet told LHP to Go Away.

I reckon the best angle, is to see JonBenet as trapped by her age and size in large house with a brother overseeing her moves.

Her parents simply neglect her, leaving lots of things for the housemaid to deal with. e.g. cleaning up the fecal stuff.

This is likely the background to the abuse true bill levelled by the GJ?

Because there was no court case, details relating to JonBenet as a victim have never been made public.

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UKGuy

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"That's about it" is always a red flag phrase in my mind. It signals that's not at all it, and, more importantly, the most significant details about "it" have been omitted.

GoBuckeyes,
Sure That's about it is code for that's all I'm telling you.

BR is linked to the breakfast bar by his fingerprints and by his dna to the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown left in the wine-cellar, and speculatively to the fecally soiled pajama bottoms left on JonBenet's bedroom floor, i.e, the likely primary crime-scene?

Only Patsy can match these links, although you could suggest JR was successful in removing the majority of his links?

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Rain on my Parade

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Nobody put a gun to his head and said, you will enjoy the pageants!

UKGuy,
No. But they did force him to go. I can look at his comment about JB “prancing around”; in this situation. You believe they are best friends. But, you did not live behind those closed doors. According to Judith Philips who had known the Ramsey family for more than ten years. She revealed in an interview with The Sun newspaper: “When Burke was born he was the absolute apple of Patsy’s eye. Then along came this little girl who stole all the attention. He could well have been very jealous.”
Also, JP stated “I think Burke had a bad temper. It’s like he had a chip on his shoulder. He had hit JonBenet. Before the murder, I would have to say, it was probably a year and a half. They were playing in the yard and apparently he hit her with the golf club, right here [points to area under eye]. She [Patsy] says the kids were playing, Burke lost his temper and hit her with a golf club.”
What message do you suppose Burke was sending to JB by smearing his feces oh her walls, her bed, perhaps her candy?

I agree. Although the head bash might represent a failed staging attempt by BR or one of the parents? Neither the parents or BR needed to apply blunt force to detain JonBenet, she could be restrained by the use of arms alone

No, the parents didn’t need to attempt blunt force trauma to restrain JB. The head bash was possible an intentional act. It makes sense that BR did this out of anger; not realizing the consequences of his actions.

JonBenet was deemed to young to have sleepovers. Yet she was a pageant star, so periodically was allowed to join in BR's, more secret stuff here.

Where is it written that JB was to young for sleepovers?
 

UKGuy

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UKGuy,
No. But they did force him to go. I can look at his comment about JB “prancing around”; in this situation. You believe they are best friends. But, you did not live behind those closed doors. According to Judith Philips who had known the Ramsey family for more than ten years. She revealed in an interview with The Sun newspaper: “When Burke was born he was the absolute apple of Patsy’s eye. Then along came this little girl who stole all the attention. He could well have been very jealous.”
Also, JP stated “I think Burke had a bad temper. It’s like he had a chip on his shoulder. He had hit JonBenet. Before the murder, I would have to say, it was probably a year and a half. They were playing in the yard and apparently he hit her with the golf club, right here [points to area under eye]. She [Patsy] says the kids were playing, Burke lost his temper and hit her with a golf club.”
What message do you suppose Burke was sending to JB by smearing his feces oh her walls, her bed, perhaps her candy?



No, the parents didn’t need to attempt blunt force trauma to restrain JB. The head bash was possible an intentional act. It makes sense that BR did this out of anger; not realizing the consequences of his actions.



Where is it written that JB was to young for sleepovers?

Rain on my Parade,
BR was likely jealous of JonBenet, but that does not mean BR and JonBenet were not friends, simply demonstrates the variety of emotions in play.

What message do you suppose Burke was sending to JB by smearing his feces oh her walls, her bed, perhaps her candy?
Well, either that she should engage or its simply BR's fetish playing out, other factors cannot be ruled out.

IMO it's a classic big brother case with the fetish as a complicating factor?

It makes sense that BR did this out of anger; not realizing the consequences of his actions.
Yes, obviously makes the grade as an explanation.

Where is it written that JB was to young for sleepovers?
From memory it was Patsy replying to a question about BR having sleepovers, and she was asked Did JonBenet have sleepovers?

I'll try and track it down for you and post it up.

The key to this case will be BR's medical records, if they are ever leaked online then we will know precisely what the relationship was between BR and JonBenet and whether it played a significant role in JonBenet's death.

.
 

David Rogers

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UKGuy,
No. But they did force him to go. I can look at his comment about JB “prancing around”; in this situation. You believe they are best friends. But, you did not live behind those closed doors. According to Judith Philips who had known the Ramsey family for more than ten years. She revealed in an interview with The Sun newspaper: “When Burke was born he was the absolute apple of Patsy’s eye. Then along came this little girl who stole all the attention. He could well have been very jealous.”
Also, JP stated “I think Burke had a bad temper. It’s like he had a chip on his shoulder. He had hit JonBenet. Before the murder, I would have to say, it was probably a year and a half. They were playing in the yard and apparently he hit her with the golf club, right here [points to area under eye]. She [Patsy] says the kids were playing, Burke lost his temper and hit her with a golf club.”
What message do you suppose Burke was sending to JB by smearing his feces oh her walls, her bed, perhaps her candy?



No, the parents didn’t need to attempt blunt force trauma to restrain JB. The head bash was possible an intentional act. It makes sense that BR did this out of anger; not realizing the consequences of his actions.



Where is it written that JB was to young for sleepovers?
Maybe they knew another girl would be at risk during a sleepover exposing the problem.
 

UKGuy

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Maybe they knew another girl would be at risk during a sleepover exposing the problem.

David Rogers,
Could be, it might also be hearsay. With JonBenet and Burke attending a therapist prior to JonBenet's death along with JonBenet's doctor allegedly destroying her and/or Burke's medical records does suggest something was going on that both parents were aware of, particularly Patsy?

The sleepover angle has been largely under-investigated and might provide a clue as to where Burke obtained his MO?

.
 

cochise

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My 1st post, does anyone else see how patsy is clutching her arm in the morning Christmas picture. Does anyone else think it's strange, that she recieved gold presents from her closest family members, a grama gold ring, a gold cross from her auntie and a gold bracelet from patsy? Ned paugh left on an unboooked flight the 24th, 911 called 23rd. It Is known incest in the family. Also John, all incest went to far, even to neighbors. His older kids. Possibly a pedophile culdesac. Like others premeditated maybe. ?? To much info, and who saw what. Also burke underage to be charged. Wt freak?
 
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