Lies point us to the truth

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cochise

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Also, why hire help for your entire house, that are mostly pedophiles? God bless jonbenet, innocent baby. God knows who all did this.
 

cochise

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Also, why hire help for your entire house, that are mostly pedophiles? God bless jonbenet, innocent baby. God knows who all did this.
 

cochise

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I've been reading for months on this, I remember this tragedy when it happened. Colorado just has what seems like an illuminati of their own. I mentioned patsy clutching jonbenet's arm, gold jewelry like she knew jonbenet wasn't going to be around longer. It's so horrible.
 

David Rogers

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My 1st post, does anyone else see how patsy is clutching her arm in the morning Christmas picture. Does anyone else think it's strange, that she recieved gold presents from her closest family members, a grama gold ring, a gold cross from her auntie and a gold bracelet from patsy? Ned paugh left on an unboooked flight the 24th, 911 called 23rd. It Is known incest in the family. Also John, all incest went to far, even to neighbors. His older kids. Possibly a pedophile culdesac. Like others premeditated maybe. ?? To much info, and who saw what. Also burke underage to be charged. Wt freak?
Remember that John Ramsey divorced his first wife 18 years precious to the murder but got her a lawyer. Now why would his ex wive of 18 years need a lawyer? What are they covering up?
 

cochise

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I think they are covering up multitudes of possible diabolical NOUNS. people, places and things. I think John Andrew (1), as he lived in Boulder down the block. When you have a private jet; I would think you could get out of anywhere quickly. I've read he was at the 23rd Christmas party. Everything is tainted and has everyone jumping down Alice in Wonderland bunny holes.
Michael Helgroth, I believed was murdered not suicide, they say he shot himself in the head, with his undominating hand, really? I think Ramsey & Co. framed him, so it looked like an IDI.
I always have thought BDI, with help of parents covering. However once in a while, I think JR and PR threw him under the bus with no wheels, because of the law under 10, you can't be charged or your name even mentioned ever, therefore if JR or PR or whoever did this, would be Scott free, because it's on Burke. So if it was John, Patsy etc... Burke would always be free, because of that law. Pin it on him. Everyone else gets away as well.
 
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cochise

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I think when the truth is near to being found out, someone always gets dropped as a friend, or killed. They Ramsey's certainly have enough money and power to kill people who they think are gona talk. I think it's a large underground pedophile ring, or it's so simple.
 

cochise

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Also, Burke was in boy scouts, learned to tie all sorts of knots, using knives, etc. Has medical mental illnesses, .. when you're in a RAGE, age doesn't matter, size doesn't matter.
I don't even think pineapple has alot to do with this. Maybe just used for a time reference for when JB was killed. They also found grapes Unpeeled and other fruit. I do not think that the events leading up to and after JB murder, are anything at all like it really went. The pineapple theory is; I think believed because its been told repeatedly so many times everyone believes it. Like brainwashing.
 

cochise

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In my heart, No IDI did this. I think Ramseys alliegence of people, maybe even BPD, district attorneys, judge, etc. Dr. Phil, whom I respected till his interview, all of them have the SAME lawyers. Including Jeffrey Epstein. REALLY? IS THIS A COINCIDENCE ??????? I would like to believe it was a horrid accident. I wish one or more of the GJ would go drive to a different state, go to a public library, and log on under anonymous and tell what they know. I'm so Grateful God knows. He knows we are all freaking out over this for years. Then also, who us the blond girl that looks like an older jonbenet with burke in a picture together???? Is something more ludicrous going on ??? My head hurts now puke.
 

cochise

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Again, If BDI, they didnt let him know that his blow was fatal, even if he told them he hit her on the head.
 

David Rogers

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Again, If BDI, they didnt let him know that his blow was fatal, even if he told them he hit her on the head.
Burke might have hit her but the parent thinking she was dead may have actually killed her staging the crime.
 

UKGuy

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Again, If BDI, they didnt let him know that his blow was fatal, even if he told them he hit her on the head.

cochise,
Hey there, you seem concerned enough to post.

Guess what, if the case is BDI and the parents put him to bed and staged everything else then he knows now he is an adult.

Here is another hint, how often do you see Burke Ramsey on the media, ever see him stepping out with his girlfriends, etc, how often does he do interviews, to help find JonBenet's killer, bottom line he is Missing In Action, which can only mean one thing?

The pineapple is simply a forensic timeline marker nothing else. The pineapple whacking theory is nonsense, there is no evidence of a struggle in the breakfast bar, check the online photos, it is all nice and pristine, shiny and tidy, i.e. no skull breaking here.

Another hint: why bother hiding the sexual assault and redressing JonBenet if it was a nasty pedophile intruder that did it?

What intruder stages the crime-scene and leaves a ransom note, how does he know BPD will not employ canine sniffers right away, then the ransom call can be ignored, does it all add up?

Check out the crime-scene photographs of JonBenet, see how the ligature encloses her hair, and is embedded into the ligature knotting, i.e. its likely postmortem?

All evidence of postmortem staging, yet compare and contrast the staging with what you might expect from either parent, how can you explain the amateur elements?

If the case is JDI and PR is assisting JR as per the GJ True Bills, then why does she leave JonBenet wearing the Bloomingdale's size-12's and Burke's long johns?

Similarly if the case is PDI, how come Patsy has no viable explanation for the size-12's, she should as she is staging for herself, meaning she injected Burke via his long johns into a homicide case?

The answers to all the above is that the case is BDI with the parents staging after the fact, the rest all being invented and faked?

More clues are included in JonBenet's bedroom pictures, again compare and contrast it with Burke's bedroom pictures.

My best guess is that Burke Ramsey whacked JonBenet not because she took some of his pineapple but because she was going to tell Patsy that night, what had been going on for a few weeks, leaving JonBenet depressed and complaining about her looks at the Ramsey Christmas Party?
 

UKGuy

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Burke might have hit her but the parent thinking she was dead may have actually killed her staging the crime.

David Rogers,
Yes, this aspect is what would have made any court case fascinating, much more compelling than OJ, patently a relationship homicide?

Any parent would have dialled 911 right away or even simply put JonBenet in the car and driven her straight to the nearest medical facility, money not an issue here, just save her life?

Then what parent would not check for a pulse, heartbeat, or breath via say the mirror test?

Have to conclude the parents knew what they were doing and why, i.e. save Burke's reputation?

Could even be it was one of the parents who whacked JonBenet on the head, precisely to kill her. With no visible sign of death they had to embark down the ligature route?

Then you have Hunter deliberately hiding the True Bills from the public by not filing them, what is all that about if the case is really PDI or JDI?

Means Hunter did not want a court case under any circumstances which would mean the production of forensic evidence related to Burke Ramsey, regardless of the case being BDI, consider the children's medical records?

Remember Hunter knows that JR and PR are facing Homicide True Bills, so burying the True Bills in a fog of administrative moves cannot benefit them.
 

Rain on my Parade

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My best guess is that Burke Ramsey whacked JonBenet not because she took some of his pineapple but because she was going to tell Patsy that night, what had been going on for a few weeks, leaving JonBenet depressed and complaining about her looks at the Ramsey Christmas Party?

UKGuy,
Who’s to say that the pineapple incident wasn’t the final rage inducing act.
It was said that part of JB’s light went out before Christmas and she did cry because she thought she wasn’t pretty. Being sexually abused as a child could account for this feeling in JB; no doubt.
There may have been multiple people JB was going to tell on. Crazy enough I feel, JR wasn’t one of them. MOO.

The pineapple is simply a forensic timeline marker nothing else. The pineapple whacking theory is nonsense, there is no evidence of a struggle in the breakfast bar, check the online photos, it is all nice and pristine, shiny and tidy, i.e. no skull breaking here.

I believe the pineapple consumption is more then a forensic time line marker. It discredits the R’s story of JB being asleep when they arrived home that she didn’t even wake up when PR’s account is thus: removed her shoes, her pants and replaced w/BR long Johns. Got her headed lifted enough to put yet another pony tail in her hair. Sleeping in ponytails breaks the hair, so why another unnecessary one? Especially if she is zonked out?
Where does this leave the Barbie gown and it’s purpose in the wine cellar if she was dressed this way (going to bed)?
As for the shiny and tidy: why was JB’s bed pillow found on the breakfast bar?

The answers to all the above is that the case is BDI with the parents staging after the fact, the rest all being invented and faked?

Except the pineapple (over looked), and the scarf on the wet bar that wasn’t taken into evidence, and the disappearance of BR bike the next morning (not noted by BPD).
Mistakes were made e.g. the pen in its original container.

I don’t think it was JB’s first time to tell on her abuser/abusers. Definitely a motive could be found here.
 

UKGuy

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UKGuy,
Who’s to say that the pineapple incident wasn’t the final rage inducing act.
It was said that part of JB’s light went out before Christmas and she did cry because she thought she wasn’t pretty. Being sexually abused as a child could account for this feeling in JB; no doubt.
There may have been multiple people JB was going to tell on. Crazy enough I feel, JR wasn’t one of them. MOO.



I believe the pineapple consumption is more then a forensic time line marker. It discredits the R’s story of JB being asleep when they arrived home that she didn’t even wake up when PR’s account is thus: removed her shoes, her pants and replaced w/BR long Johns. Got her headed lifted enough to put yet another pony tail in her hair. Sleeping in ponytails breaks the hair, so why another unnecessary one? Especially if she is zonked out?
Where does this leave the Barbie gown and it’s purpose in the wine cellar if she was dressed this way (going to bed)?
As for the shiny and tidy: why was JB’s bed pillow found on the breakfast bar?



Except the pineapple (over looked), and the scarf on the wet bar that wasn’t taken into evidence, and the disappearance of BR bike the next morning (not noted by BPD).
Mistakes were made e.g. the pen in its original container.

I don’t think it was JB’s first time to tell on her abuser/abusers. Definitely a motive could be found here.

Rain on my Parade,
Who’s to say that the pineapple incident wasn’t the final rage inducing act.
Quite simply because the pineapple bowl was left on the Breakfast Bar table, with no attempt at removal, complete with Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints.

It was said that part of JB’s light went out before Christmas and she did cry because she thought she wasn’t pretty. Being sexually abused as a child could account for this feeling in JB; no doubt.
I agree, JonBenet wanted someone to talk to, to share her secret with?

when PR’s account is thus: removed her shoes, her pants and replaced w/BR long Johns.
Nope, Patsy is making all this up. Burke is the stager, he put the size-12's and long johns on JonBenet. The ponytails suggest either prior staging or alike the pineapple marker it just blows Patsy's version of events out of the water.

Where does this leave the Barbie gown and it’s purpose in the wine cellar if she was dressed this way (going to bed)?
Leaves it as present at the original crime-scene, either as JonBenet's primary bed clothing or intended to be, but due to forensic cross-transfer, i.e. bloodstains, it was removed, possibly being replaced by the red turtleneck, which had been rinsed out, bloodstains anyone?

As for the shiny and tidy: why was JB’s bed pillow found on the breakfast bar?
Patently because her head was resting on it at some point?

This does not mean finding the pillow in the Breakfast Bar means anything took place there, more likely it was just left or dumped there, i.e. away from the secondary crime-scene.

Why, because the pillow belongs in JonBenet's bedroom, unless, unless, of course it belonged in Burke's Bedroom?

BPD likely never knew anything about the bike, particularly if it had been used as a getaway bike, as promoted by past members?

All the mistakes were never followed up as BPD knew the case was never going to court as it was BDI.

I don’t think it was JB’s first time to tell on her abuser/abusers.
Right, so she and BR get to do therapy and BR is told hands off, etc.

Then guess what, BR encourages JonBenet to indulge again, that's a bit lame, lets say he bullies her, and JonBenet does not like this one bit. More so if her therapist is telling JonBenet about the sanctity of her body, etc.

The motive is sexual, Kolar is suggesting one with more complex features, e.g. a fecal fetish?

Kolar does not advance his unstated theory one iota by introducing a fetish, we could all forget it and still arrive at a good account of what took place?

The fetish means you might need a dictionary to check out if it could all be classed as incest?

I reckon Kolar is hinting at postmortem behavour, along with the possibility of Burke staging then moving JonBenet?

One person who I think knows is Fleet White, he can tell us if the case is BDI, he definitely knows something we do not, including any of the CSI Photographers!!!

.
 

Rain on my Parade

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Quite simply because the pineapple bowl was left on the Breakfast Bar table, with no attempt at removal, complete with Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints.

UKGuy,
IF BDI, I doubt his explanation wasn’t because she ate my pineapple and was going to tell on me. I see him saying it was an accident; I didn’t mean to. When in fact he most definitely meant to. For that matter whoever hit JB, did it intentionally. Let’s not forget about that tea bag left in a tall glass. That looks staged, IMO.

I agree, JonBenet wanted someone to talk to, to share her secret with?

Yes, she wanted it stopped.

Leaves it as present at the original crime-scene, either as JonBenet's primary bed clothing or intended to be, but due to forensic cross-transfer, i.e. bloodstains, it was removed, possibly being replaced by the red turtleneck, which had been rinsed out, bloodstains anyone?

Do we know the red turtleneck sweater was found wet?

Nope, Patsy is making all this up. Burke is the stager, he put the size-12's and long johns on JonBenet. The ponytails suggest either prior staging or alike the pineapple marker it just blows Patsy's version of events out of the water.

Of coarse she is making all this up. I wonder if BR saw his mom wrap Jennie’s underwear or if they were simply left in the laundry room for the taking? Wonder what the cutesy pictures were all about? It is possible that the second ponytail was added to distract from the head wound. Seriously, what where they thinking?

All the mistakes were never followed up as BPD knew the case was never going to court as it was BDI.

Yes, except we have to take into account ST book and accounts.

One person who I think knows is Fleet White, he can tell us if the case is BDI, he definitely knows something we do not, including any of the CSI Photographers!!!

Will FW ever be free to tell his story? Does the cover up go away once JR passes?
 

UKGuy

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UKGuy,
IF BDI, I doubt his explanation wasn’t because she ate my pineapple and was going to tell on me. I see him saying it was an accident; I didn’t mean to. When in fact he most definitely meant to. For that matter whoever hit JB, did it intentionally. Let’s not forget about that tea bag left in a tall glass. That looks staged, IMO.



Yes, she wanted it stopped.



Do we know the red turtleneck sweater was found wet?



Of coarse she is making all this up. I wonder if BR saw his mom wrap Jennie’s underwear or if they were simply left in the laundry room for the taking? Wonder what the cutesy pictures were all about? It is possible that the second ponytail was added to distract from the head wound. Seriously, what where they thinking?



Yes, except we have to take into account ST book and accounts.



Will FW ever be free to tell his story? Does the cover up go away once JR passes?

Rain on my Parade,
For that matter whoever hit JB, did it intentionally. Let’s not forget about that tea bag left in a tall glass. That looks staged, IMO.
I agree, it was no accident. It was born out of either rage or staging, it's difficult to rule one out as the head blow did contribute towards her death.

The tea bag, what does that show, other than someone drank tea?

Did BPD analyse the tableware for dna, e.g. saliva?

Yes, she wanted it stopped.
You bet, note how neither Patsy or John seemed to bothered, yet others picked up on JonBenet's apparent stress signals?

Do we know the red turtleneck sweater was found wet?
No, from memory it was found balled up on her bathroom counter, so likely dry?

ST said that at 7:33 a K-9 unit with a tracking dog was put on standby, but not used
I'll bet he regrets not sending the dogs in?

were simply left in the laundry room for the taking? Wonder what the cutesy pictures were all about? It is possible that the second ponytail was added to distract from the head wound.
The size-12's might have been what BR Partially Opened as he was snooping for gifts in the basement Christmas Afternoon. Kolar claims to have written evidence to back this claim up?

Patsy has some explanation for the cutesy pictures, they are yet another open question.

IMO The extra ponytail was added by Patsy as she prepared JonBenet for bed.

Can you imagine it, fashion savvy JonBenet who refused the red turtleneck in preference for the white Gap Top, agreeing to wear Burke's long johns, as Patsy combs her hair and applies the second ponytail?

Nope that is too much to believe, JonBenet likely wore the same pink pajama set she wore the night before?

Yes, except we have to take into account ST book and accounts.
Sure, but its a rehash or revised version due to litigation issues, i.e. the full story is not contained therein.

Will FW ever be free to tell his story? Does the cover up go away once JR passes?
Who knows, but he is definitely someone I would have a question for if there was ever a Q&A session.

Fleet White was witness to the wine-cellar before JR decided to take a belated look, he was also witness to BR dressing for the day, etc.

Fleet White's eyes saw a lot of things and he definitely observed something that could break the case.

He might even have forgotten all about it, nor thought it of any importance?

The cover up has to carry on. Too many officials have invested their careers in the cover up.

Yet, someone will come forward, they always do. They will be waiting for JR to pass, since the dead cannot be defamed.

Disentangling all the JDI theories from the truth will take a while, but once the dust settles BDI will be back on the table.

So will Burke undertake media interviews, i.e. take his father's role in promoting IDI on the airwaves, or will his lips be sealed?

Bear in mind JonBenet's therapist also knows the truth, as will Burke's therapist assuming he told the therapist the truth postmortem?

All this will be on record somewhere, and I'm willing to bet JR would like the records deleted.

Then there are the GJ members, documentary makers will be making them interview offers of thousands of dollars, so there is plenty yet to make it into the public domain.

Consider Holly Smith who was head of the Boulder County Sexual Abuse team and has been called into the investigation, as she says, "to consult about some of the dynamics and some of the things people suspected might be going on with this case." i.e. incest That was part of Smith's job. But then she was abruptly pulled off the investigation and told police were handling everything. "There was a lot of territoriality around the case,” she says. Also her autobiography had the Ramsey account removed or redacted. Patently she knew stuff the Ramsey's preferred to keep secret.

So she might decide to do a coded interview, along the lines of Kolar's book.
.
 

proust20

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The significance of the bowl of pineapple is the fact that it was left out in view. This suggests that one or both parents did not understand its importance in establishing the timeline, or they'd removed it. Were the parents aware that JB had eaten it? JB's fingerprints are not on the bowl. Did someone feed her by hand? Without the bowl, it would have been more difficult to say from where the pineapple originated. Have to go back to the White's party? I think that this part of the autopsy findings surprised the Rs. It's the unforeseen, seemingly trivial detail that trips up. The pineapple is a huge obstacle for IDI. In BR's second interview, with the male psychologist, he had no problem in identifying the glass with the tea bag.

The GJ indictments are strong BDI indications. The torn Christmas wrapping is intriguing. The GAP top is incongruous with the long johns and the size 12s. These items along with the Barbie nightgown, the turtleneck, the extra hair tie, the missing pj bottoms and the missing size 6 Wed. panties form a complex array of garments. All the while JB kept on her new gold jewelry gifts. The staging was being made up as it went along. People who are in a panic cannot be expected to be thinking lucidly. PR may not have known what size Bloomies she found? Replacing one Wednesday pair with another one may been uppermost in her mind as she ran around frantically?

BR could confess at any time without being pursued criminally.
 

UKGuy

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The significance of the bowl of pineapple is the fact that it was left out in view. This suggests that one or both parents did not understand its importance in establishing the timeline, or they'd removed it. Were the parents aware that JB had eaten it? JB's fingerprints are not on the bowl. Did someone feed her by hand? Without the bowl, it would have been more difficult to say from where the pineapple originated. Have to go back to the White's party? I think that this part of the autopsy findings surprised the Rs. It's the unforeseen, seemingly trivial detail that trips up. The pineapple is a huge obstacle for IDI. In BR's second interview, with the male psychologist, he had no problem in identifying the glass with the tea bag.

The GJ indictments are strong BDI indications. The torn Christmas wrapping is intriguing. The GAP top is incongruous with the long johns and the size 12s. These items along with the Barbie nightgown, the turtleneck, the extra hair tie, the missing pj bottoms and the missing size 6 Wed. panties form a complex array of garments. All the while JB kept on her new gold jewelry gifts. The staging was being made up as it went along. People who are in a panic cannot be expected to be thinking lucidly. PR may not have known what size Bloomies she found? Replacing one Wednesday pair with another one may been uppermost in her mind as she ran around frantically?

BR could confess at any time without being pursued criminally.

proust20,
Its obvious the parents either never knew about the pineapple snack or had forgotten all about it, as the primary crime-scene was upstairs in JonBenet's bedroom.

Revisit the size-12's here, in terms of memory, i.e. Patys offer an explanation, whereas for the pineapple snack, nothing. Suggesting Patsy might never have known JonBenet snacked pineapple as it was Burke who fetched the bowl for them both, before they retired to JonBenet's bedroom? Meaning whatever transpired next was premeditated?

PR may not have known what size Bloomies she found? Replacing one Wednesday pair with another one may been uppermost in her mind as she ran around frantically?
Nope, she could have selected a pair of Bloomingdale's size-6 at the same point she says she picked Burke's long johns from JonBenet's bathroom drawer, remember she is on record stating she purchased a set for JonBenet on her NY trip.

BR could confess at any time without being pursued criminally.
This will never happen, it would mean all his litigation awards being struck down along with the possibility of federal charges relating to theft and conspiracy, etc never mind what any new litigation the media companies might hit him with, demanding payback?
 

Rain on my Parade

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The tea bag, what does that show, other than someone drank tea?

UKGuy,
You don’t make hot tea in a glass. This is what I find to be unusual.

Did BPD analyse the tableware for dna, e.g. saliva?

That information is probably intentionally lost or destroyed.

You bet, note how neither Patsy or John seemed to bothered, yet others picked up on JonBenet's apparent stress signals?

JR was seldom @ home. I don’t find it usual that he missed this.

ST said that at 7:33 a K-9 unit with a tracking dog was put on standby, but not used
I'll bet he regrets not sending the dogs in?

Yep, considering this case the dogs were pulled per instructions = further coverup.

The size-12's might have been what BR Partially Opened as he was snooping for gifts in the basement Christmas Afternoon. Kolar claims to have written evidence to back this claim up?

I checked this book out 3 times and read it in its entirety each time. I don’t recall this reference. Do you think you could help? I’d appreciate it!

IMO The extra ponytail was added by Patsy as she prepared JonBenet for bed.

Can you imagine it, fashion savvy JonBenet who refused the red turtleneck in preference for the white Gap Top, agreeing to wear Burke's long johns, as Patsy combs her hair and applies the second ponytail?

Nope that is too much to believe, JonBenet likely wore the same pink pajama set she wore the night before?

I still don’t by the extra ponytail was added before the staging took place. And JB could have worn the Barbie nightgown. It’s presence in the WC with her blood on it, is hard to explain otherwise. As we only have the pink top present and no bottoms; it would make seem logical to assume that this is what she wore that night.

All the mistakes were never followed up as BPD knew the case was never going to court as it was BDI.

Yes, except we have to take into account ST book and accounts.

Sure, but its a rehash or revised version due to litigation issues, i.e. the full story is not contained therein.

I don’t believe ST had access to all the facts in this case.

Bear in mind JonBenet's therapist also knows the truth, as will Burke's therapist assuming he told the therapist the truth postmortem?

Are these people still alive? I thought they were either murdered or had passed.

Consider Holly Smith who was head of the Boulder County Sexual Abuse team and has been called into the investigation, as she says, "to consult about some of the dynamics and some of the things people suspected might be going on with this case." i.e. incest That was part of Smith's job. But then she was abruptly pulled off the investigation and told police were handling everything. "There was a lot of territoriality around the case,” she says. Also her autobiography had the Ramsey account removed or redacted. Patently she knew stuff the Ramsey's preferred to keep secret.

So she might decide to do a coded interview, along the lines of Kolar's book.

BDI:
Let’s keep out fingers crossed this comes to pass.
 

icedtea4me

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I've been reading for months on this, I remember this tragedy when it happened. Colorado just has what seems like an illuminati of their own. I mentioned patsy clutching jonbenet's arm, gold jewelry like she knew jonbenet wasn't going to be around longer. It's so horrible.

I'd have to say that Patsy subconsciously knew JonBenet was coming to her demise.
1. In her 1996 Xmas letter she wrote-

outrageous 40th birthday bash

rage
birthday (Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ)
bash (blow to the head)

1996christmasnewsletter.htm

2. Patsy wrote in DoI about being in the basement laundry room on Xmas Eve night. She said she removed the lid from the My Twinn doll box and saw JonBenet lying in a coffin. Forensic psychiatrist Dr Andrew G Hodges stated in his book Who Will Speak for JonBenet that this was a subconscious wish of Patsy's treated as a fear to make the wish more palatable. (The eyes of the My Twinn dolls are stationary. They do not close shut.)
 
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