Lies point us to the truth

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Rain on my Parade, Jan 10, 2020.

  1. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Well-Known Member

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    It isn't that there were no prints found on the flashlight. It's that no usable prints were found.
     


  2. Rain on my Parade

    Rain on my Parade Well-Known Member

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    It is true that rough or textured surfaces don’t easily retain fingerprints (as in maglite); but batteries do.
     
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  3. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Rain on my Parade,
    That's good to hear. If I was to author a JonBenet Who Did It, the above would go in along with all the Ramsey oops moments when their version of events does not match the real world.

    JR was quite active early on fabricating scenarios then quietly dropping them, then it seems as if Patsy took over and JR stepped back?

    Burke Ramsey's Christmas gift: a nice shiny bike has vanished into the ether anyone know why? Patsy is on record as purchasing :

    dailycamera.com, 1997, excerpt
    Then there is the Chair and Suitcase the latter which JR claims responsibility for its arrival in the basement.

    This was the only example where I have seen John stating "hey we employ a housekeeper to clean up after us, but I like to help out too?"

    Consider the Partially Opened Gifts which JR is on record saying Patsy knows nothing about them!

    Then later Patsy says, "Hey guys I opened them as I must have forgot who was getting what?"

    Duh.


    Their attorney must have told them you can say what you want outside court, but in court you are under oath, so just deny and forget stuff ...

    In terms of forensic deposits Patsy seems to outscore the others. With John and Burke about equal with a deposit each.

    JR, it seems, was very forensically aware. Patsy appears not to have cared less, and apart from his touch-dna Burke is nearly invisible.

    I wonder if we will ever see the therapists reports. Since Burke and JonBenet were both in therapy.

    The parents probably ignored medical advice and paid the price with JonBenet's death, they must have thought they were above and immune from life's problems?

    If the case is BDI, how will this play out for BR's state of mind once JR leaves us, he is getting on you know?

    BR will be adrift in a world that will want exclusive interviews, will he take his father's place in JonBenet Who Did It documentaries?

    Could he slip up, live on TV, there is obviously more to come ...

    .
     
  4. ReturnofSaturn

    ReturnofSaturn New Member

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    Sorry if this has been covered lots or sounds ridiculously far fetched...

    The references to the Stines loyalty and their odd behaviour including impersonating the police officer etc..

    How close were Doug Stine and Burke? Do we know if they ever had sleepovers?
    How possible would it be that Doug went back with the Ramseys that night for a sleepover and they both ended up being involved in JBR's murder?

    The Ramsey's then sent Doug home on the bicycle.
     
  5. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    ReturnofSaturn,

    Burke and Doug Stine have remained buddies and are in regular close contact.

    Susan Stine reported an overheard conversation between Burke and Doug, where Burke describes details surrounding the death of JonBenet.

    Yes Burke had sleepovers, on many occasions, JonBenet it appears had none.

    A former member BlueCrab suggested that Doug Stine returned with the Ramsey's to their house for an overnight stay, was caught up in the death of JonBenet and returned home early morning on Patsy's bike?

    In this case just about anything is possible, did a bike play a part, JR says he sold Patsy's bike at a later date.

    Also Burke was given a bike as a Christmas gift by Patsy, as was JonBenet, Burke's bike has vanished, although this might simply be due to postmortem mayhem, i.e. who cares about bikes when your daughter is dead?

    The thing about the bikes is: are they a dead end, or did one of them play a role in allowing someone early morning transport out of the hellhole?

    Here are some snippets of information, see what you think:

    6/23/1998 BPD John Interview, Excerpt
    So That's two bikes, one for Patsy, one for JonBenet.

    6/23/1998 BPD John Later in Interview same day, Excerpt
    Now we are at three bikes.

    6/25/1998 BPD Interview Continued, Excerpt
    That's back to two bikes again.

    We Have Your Daughter by Paula Woodward, pp. 26
    That's back to three again.

    The Daily Camera, Boulder; By JULIE POPPEN, Camera Staff Writer; Friday, December 26, 1997; Excerpt
    That's back to three bikes with a third party referring to this aspect prior to JR being interviewed !

    Also on Dr Phil we have Burke saying:
    Again that's three bikes.

    So I guess the Doug Stine sleepover theory might fly, apparently Burke's bike is missing, and of course this might explain why the Ramsey's offered the Stines employment and Susan Stine was emailing fake news to BPD, all very suspicious?

    .
     
  6. ReturnofSaturn

    ReturnofSaturn New Member

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    Yes, so it seems the inconsistencies revolve around Burkes bike.

    That would fit the Doug going back with them theory as surely if they needed to send him home on a bike, then Burkes bike would be most suitable for him.
     
  7. 8771

    8771 Well-Known Member

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    The same clothes the next day for PR really bothers me. I don't consider myself too vain; I'll go out with a messy bun and/or no makeup here and there and even when my makeup and hair is done, it's low maintenance and somewhat minimal. That being said, if I'm traveling - especially early in the morning - I know what I'll be wearing the day of travel. In packing, I set aside or at least mentally note what I'll be wearing on travel day(s). Furthermore, I don't wear anything twice in a row aside from jeans.

    It baffles me that a woman as put together and focused on her appearance would wear the same clothing two days in a row. She had plenty of money to afford more than one favorite/nice/festive/etc outfit and she sure strikes me as the type to plan outfits in advance and also strikes me as the type that wouldn't risk being seen in the same outfit two days in a row. I just don't see why she would opt for the same outfit two days in a row. It seems very out of character in my opinion.
     
  8. ReturnofSaturn

    ReturnofSaturn New Member

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    Exactly. It's nonsensical that she would get up and put the same party clothes back on.
    I can't however believe that after all the staging and other stuff they must have done all night that she then also simply forgot to change clothes before the police arrive?? That also bothers me!
     
  9. Fabra

    Fabra Member

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    Apologies if this has been covered, but fairly new to the JBR forum.: )

    Like most, I have a hard time buying the IDI theory, but it's surprising that she would have decided to keep wearing the very clothes that could implicate her in her daughter's death. She had to have known that even the slightest drop of JBR's blood found on her outfit would've catapulted her into lead POI status.

    Makes me wonder about a lot of very different scenarios, including whether the crime was committed in her night clothes, perhaps, or whether she was looking to put an implicating outfit (or 2 or 3...) in the wash (she was fiddling by the washing machine before "finding" the RN, according to some reports).

    "Fox Television quoted sources as saying an examination of clothes worn by John and Patsy Ramsey on the eve of the 6-year-old's killing is giving investigators new hope of solving the case...
    Boulder police Cmdr. Mark Beckner, the lead investigator, told reporters earlier this month that there had been an important development in the case. He refused to discuss it further, except to say it was "exciting." The test results had only become available a few days earlier"

    Ramsey clothing offers clue

    Lots of questions here (maybe someone knows some of the answers): What were the results of the testing on PR's and JR's clothing that were so "exciting"? What was the clothing, specifically, that was tested? And did they not test BR's clothing from night of 12/25? Was any sleepwear from Ramsey family ever tested?

    TIA!
     
  10. Rain on my Parade

    Rain on my Parade Well-Known Member

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    PR walked out of the house with her cloths on, long fur coat and purse on December 26, 1996. The cloths were not turned over to the police until January of 1998. PR sweater fibers were consistent with those found in the ligature, blanket, paint tray, duct tape and blanket. JR fibers from his sweater matched fibers found in JB labia.

    BR pajamas were never tested to my knowledge.
     
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  11. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Fabra,

    From Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? by A. James Kolar; pages 367-70
    Well could be they tested his pajama bottoms and do not want to release the results. Any fiber analysis and later dna results have not been made public either.

    Was it the pajamas bottoms in the photo below, JonBenet aficionados might have noticed Kolar does not offer the color, hints of the long underwear, here which was code for Burke's longjohns!
    [​IMG]

    Burke loves the media attention:
    [​IMG]

    He said:
    The killer was “probably some pedophile in the pageant audience” who “saw her at one of the pageants,” he explained to the Dr. Phil.

    And if you want to believe the media he works from home as a software contractor and maybe has a girlfriend?

    [​IMG]

    Have you considered that Patsy wearing the previous nights clothing might have been part of the staging?

    Patsy was not concerned greatly by forensic details. Not changing her clothes was a deliberate choice, look at John he showered and changed.

    The parents had all night to cleanup and wash stuff. It only takes twenty minutes to run the washing machine and another twenty to spin-dry, she could have washed lots of evidence away?

    I'm guessing Patsy was playing the "Patsy", hoping to send investigators down the wrong line of inquiry?

    .
     
  12. Fabra

    Fabra Member

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    It's utterly inconceivable the clothes weren't turned over for 2 years. In what world is that acceptable from a LE perspective? But that answers my question re: DNA or blood evidence on PR's/JR's clothing. Thank you, Rain.

    UKGuy, your response made me chuckle in spots. But I guess what you're getting at (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that Patsy was willing to play the fall guy for her son. Def more noble an act than I ever gave her credit for. And when you think about it, it would require a level of genius to self-reference so adroitly--and then stop just short of incriminating herself time and again. Almost literary, really.

    What I can't get around, though, is staging the body in such an abhorrent way--smacks of something way more disturbed, particularly if she was only covering for a potential accident on BR's part.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
  13. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    In JonBenet Steve Thomas says: "Since the flashlight held no fingerprints, did the intruder carefully wipe it down, inside and out, even the batteries, then just forget it? It didn't fit....That it bore no fingerprints was consistent with a piece of equipment being handled in cold weather by a cop wearing gloves...."

    Thomas doesn't say that partial or smudged prints were found. Where did you get your information?
     
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  14. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    Not only that, but she supposedly put on the previous day's clothing without taking a shower. In DOI she says she wanted to take a shower, but her shower was broken. There were 3 showers on the second floor alone. She had a long day ahead of her, much of which she would be spending with her stepchildren who had a good relationship with their mother, John's ex-wife. I think Patsy would have been done up to the nines.
     
  15. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    Fabra,
    Yes, the staging of JonBenet's death is macabre, possibility of exaggerated drama here? Patsy definitely knotted and attached the ligature, the piece of paintbrush that might be JR, who knows?

    All done to mask whatever went before, and all three Ramsey's were complicit, right down to Burke faking being asleep.

    Burke even has a theory these days, i.e. pedophile from the pageants, to which he did not attend regularly, he liked his cars, boats, Nintendo, model-kits and gadgets, etc.

    The R's were covering for each other, here is the sequence for the Partially Opened Gifts:

    June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane
    Yet, John knows ...

    Later Patsy claims she opened the gifts, after wrapping them? Large Scotch please.

    Kolar opines:
    James Kolar, Foreign Faction, Excerpt
    Conclusion: If Kolar's claims are correct then John knew Burke had been in the wine-cellar, and he was trying to remove Patsy from the suspect list, possibly because he put them in there along with JonBenet?

    So, yes definitely I reckon Patsy went out of her way to make sure Burke appeared to have no involvement?

    .
     
  16. Rain on my Parade

    Rain on my Parade Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps, PR didn’t forget to change her cloths. They got a get out of jail free card; after all.
     
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  17. Fabra

    Fabra Member

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    UKGuy,

    Burke's theory leaves a lot to be desired. Not least of which is how arbitrary he wants this to seem--just some 'random pedophile' they unwittingly enticed at a pageant. And yet all the staging is crafted to point to someone "in the know."
    Makes no sense, I agree.
     
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  18. Nova

    Nova Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure, but it was established here at WS decades ago that under Colorado law at the time, no child under the age of 10 could be charged with a felony. So BR was never in any legal jeopardy.

    Now whether the Rs KNEW that is another matter. But even if they didn't know on the night JBR died, they were certainly told when they "lawyered up" in the next day or so.
     
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  19. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Well-Known Member

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    Please point out where I said "Thomas said that partial or smudged prints were found".

    There was a Ask Me Anything that was held a few years ago by either Thomas or Beckner and one of them said that no usable prints were found on the flashlight.
     
  20. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    James Kolar's Q&A / AMA March 28, 2015, Excerpt

    I am former Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner. I worked in law enforcement for 36 years, and headed the investigation into the JonBenet Ramsey murder. AMAA.

     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
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