Lies point us to the truth

[UKGuy]

That's Dr. Phil saying that. He's not a primary source. He's not even a secondary source. Probably some imaginary number.

fr brown,
Exactly, its what John told Dr. Phil, its John's latest addition to the R's version of events.

Likely scripted to benefit Burke in some manner as he was to answer the questions.

As we know he got some answers wrong, could be his smiling was all nerves, yet the viewers did not like it, prompting Dr. Phil to rush out an emergency third episode.

John wants everyone to know he took the flashlight upstairs. I do not buy this I reckon it was already upstairs on Christmas Eve, in Burke's bedroom, he was prepared for early gift hunting!

 

[UKGuy]

IF Burke was sexually abusing/inappropriate with JBR. What would the motive for that be? Surely not sexual at his age?

ReturnofSaturn,
That's what I used to think. Burke was nearly 10 years old, so could be he was an early starter?

In the Grand Jury Counts both parents are hit with child neglect charges, by virtue of their knowledge that JonBenet was in danger from the unamed person who assaulted her.

That is both parents looked the other way. It could be because Burke and JonBenet were both in therapy they thought they had done enough?

.

 

[icedtea4me]

Hey, I am new to this site so I thought I'd post a little something about my thoughts on the case. ( I apologize if these points have already been spoken on, feel free to ignore this if they have)

Something I recently learned about was that a few months before JB was murdered her brother had hit her in the head with a golf club because he was mad at her. I've always thought that the brother had done it and the parents had covered it up. This sounds like a child with anger issues, and I believe that he could have killed her in a rage.
When talking about the incident, Patsy also changes her story to make Burke sound younger. (She says the incident happened in 1993 when it happened in 1994. She also says that he is 2 and a half at the time, which was also incorrect). She also downplays the injury that JB received. It definitely feels like Patsy is trying to cover for Burke's anger issues.<snip>

1. Watch this video.

Would you say that it is impossible for someone to accidentally get hit in the face during a golf swing, yes or no?

2. If the accident happened prior to 6 Aug 1993, then JonBenet would've been 2.6 years of age.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Thomas stated in his book how JonBenet came to get her room via a double tragedy (i.e. Beth's death and Patsy's cancer diagnosis).

Maybe because Fleet White stated something about his misdial.

Linda Wilcox’s statement came before the murder; not after.

Maybe because Fleet White stated something about his misdial.

This has not been proven. It originated in DOI. I personally don’t believe a word from the R’s mouth.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

1. Watch this video.

Would you say that it is impossible for someone to accidentally get hit in the face during a golf swing, yes or no?

2. If the accident happened prior to 6 Aug 1993, then JonBenet would've been 2.6 years of age.

No, it is not impossible to get hit by a golf club accidentally. I was stuck by a maglite (accidentally) once, in the face. It happens.

ST:
In the summer of 1994 JB was accidentally hit on the left cheek by a golf club swung by her brother, BR, and her mother rushed her to see a plastic surgeon, who thought PR was overreacting.

 

[icedtea4me]

This has not been proven. It originated in DOI. I personally don’t believe a word from the R’s mouth.

When Patsy stated in DoI (pg 67, hardbound) that Beth gave her a birdbath and John monogrammed towels for Christmas 1991, was she lying, yes or no?

 

[Fabra]

IF Burke was sexually abusing/inappropriate with JBR. What would the motive for that be? Surely not sexual at his age?

Children who are sexually abused will often act this out with other children. Even the fecal smearing could be a sign of sexual abuse.

Just a thought.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

When Patsy stated in DoI (pg 67, hardbound) that Beth gave her a birdbath and John monogrammed towels for Christmas 1991, was she lying, yes or no?

I consider this a rhetorical question. What does this have to do with JB death?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Children who are sexually abused will often act this out with other children. Even the fecal smearing could be a sign of sexual abuse.

Just a thought.

Fabra,
Psychologists note that scatolia tends to occur in individuals with a history of obsessive-compulsive disorder, anxiety, schizophrenia, depression, bipolar disorder, ADD, autism or post-traumatic stress, especially trauma related to physical or sexual abuse. Author Donna Williams, who has autism, points out that rectal digging and fecal smearing serve many real purposes that are often overlooked by caregivers and medical providers:

1. Provides a sense of control over one’s body and environment when other areas of life are out of control
2. Provides a sense of ownership over one’s actions
3. Expresses feelings of anger, frustration, helplessness and powerlessness
4. Prevents unwanted social interaction
5. May be associated with other comforting emotional experiences
6. May be part of a personal ritual that provides comfort
7. May be part of an obsession that is spiraling out of control

In each of these cases, care and attention must be given to the individual’s quality of life to make sure all needs are being met. Inpatient psychiatric treatment may be needed for severe anxiety or OCD.

As for BR playing doctor w/JB it was reported by the housekeeper long ago. Also, his grandmother (PR mom-Nedra) made inappropriate remarks about BR privates. And his aunt PP, gave him the directive to yell at people and tell them to get out of his room. Why would this ever be necessary or acceptable for an aunt to give this directive and a grandmother to make this sort of statement as well as “all children are a little abused.”

 

[Logic101]

Hey, I am new to this site so I thought I'd post a little something about my thoughts on the case. ( I apologize if these points have already been spoken on, feel free to ignore this if they have)

Something I recently learned about was that a few months before JB was murdered her brother had hit her in the head with a golf club because he was mad at her. I've always thought that the brother had done it and the parents had covered it up. This sounds like a child with anger issues, and I believe that he could have killed her in a rage.
When talking about the incident, Patsy also changes her story to make Burke sound younger. (She says the incident happened in 1993 when it happened in 1994. She also says that he is 2 and a half at the time, which was also incorrect). She also downplays the injury that JB received. It definitely feels like Patsy is trying to cover for Burke's anger issues.

I have a little theory that Burke was angry at Jonbenet, possibly because she took his pineapple or was eating it. I think that because Patsy, Burke and Jonbenet's fingerprints were found on the bowl it is possible that Patsy had gotten Burke a snack, and went to another room. Jonbenet came in and took the pineapple, which angered Burke.

Burke lashed out and killed her. The mother wrote the ransom note, while the father tried to make it look like a kidnapping. I believe Patsy was in the same clothing as the night before because she hadn't slept that night. She was up writing her 3-page ransom note.

As for the unknown DNA found in the underwear, and this is a THEORY, but it is possible for unknown DNA to be found in brand new underwear (or any clothing). This has been tested before and sometimes DNA is found in clean, unused clothing because it is not sterile.

I don’t believe the golf club incident was anything but an accident because if it had been inten

Hey, I am new to this site so I thought I'd post a little something about my thoughts on the case. ( I apologize if these points have already been spoken on, feel free to ignore this if they have)

Something I recently learned about was that a few months before JB was murdered her brother had hit her in the head with a golf club because he was mad at her. I've always thought that the brother had done it and the parents had covered it up. This sounds like a child with anger issues, and I believe that he could have killed her in a rage.
When talking about the incident, Patsy also changes her story to make Burke sound younger. (She says the incident happened in 1993 when it happened in 1994. She also says that he is 2 and a half at the time, which was also incorrect). She also downplays the injury that JB received. It definitely feels like Patsy is trying to cover for Burke's anger issues.

I have a little theory that Burke was angry at Jonbenet, possibly because she took his pineapple or was eating it. I think that because Patsy, Burke and Jonbenet's fingerprints were found on the bowl it is possible that Patsy had gotten Burke a snack, and went to another room. Jonbenet came in and took the pineapple, which angered Burke.

Burke lashed out and killed her. The mother wrote the ransom note, while the father tried to make it look like a kidnapping. I believe Patsy was in the same clothing as the night before because she hadn't slept that night. She was up writing her 3-page ransom note.

As for the unknown DNA found in the underwear, and this is a THEORY, but it is possible for unknown DNA to be found in brand new underwear (or any clothing). This has been tested before and sometimes DNA is found in clean, unused clothing because it is not sterile.

Hey, I am new to this site so I thought I'd post a little something about my thoughts on the case. ( I apologize if these points have already been spoken on, feel free to ignore this if they have)

Something I recently learned about was that a few months before JB was murdered her brother had hit her in the head with a golf club because he was mad at her. I've always thought that the brother had done it and the parents had covered it up. This sounds like a child with anger issues, and I believe that he could have killed her in a rage.
When talking about the incident, Patsy also changes her story to make Burke sound younger. (She says the incident happened in 1993 when it happened in 1994. She also says that he is 2 and a half at the time, which was also incorrect). She also downplays the injury that JB received. It definitely feels like Patsy is trying to cover for Burke's anger issues.

I have a little theory that Burke was angry at Jonbenet, possibly because she took his pineapple or was eating it. I think that because Patsy, Burke and Jonbenet's fingerprints were found on the bowl it is possible that Patsy had gotten Burke a snack, and went to another room. Jonbenet came in and took the pineapple, which angered Burke.

Burke lashed out and killed her. The mother wrote the ransom note, while the father tried to make it look like a kidnapping. I believe Patsy was in the same clothing as the night before because she hadn't slept that night. She was up writing her 3-page ransom note.

As for the unknown DNA found in the underwear, and this is a THEORY, but it is possible for unknown DNA to be found in brand new underwear (or any clothing). This has been tested before and sometimes DNA is found in clean, unused clothing because it is not sterile.

I have always believed the golf club incident was accidental because if, as some believe, her fatal injury was administered by Burke, then the golf club blow would have been as severe as her fatal head injury!

 

[Fabra]

As for BR playing doctor w/JB it was reported by the housekeeper long ago. Also, his grandmother (PR mom-Nedra) made inappropriate remarks about BR privates. And his aunt PP, gave him the directive to yell at people and tell them to get out of his room. Why would this ever be necessary or acceptable for an aunt to give this directive and a grandmother to make this sort of statement as well as “all children are a little abused.”

Ugh!

Answer is, it's never appropriate or necessary. I was not aware of those statements, but it all fits the cyclic nature of sexual abuse, sadly.

 

[Logic101]

DR PHIL: I think your dad had said he used the flashlight that night to put you to bed, and then you snuck downstairs to play?

BURKE: Yeah, I had some toy that I wanted to put together. I remember being downstairs after everyone was kinda in bed, and wanting to get this thing out.

DR PHIL: Did you use the flashlight, so you wouldn't be seen?

BURKE: I don't remember. I just remember being downstairs, I remember this toy.

SOURCE: Dr Phil Episode 9/13 - Burke Ramsey Interview (Part 2) - approx 35:00 mark

I remember that slightly differently. I remember John being caught unaware after Burke tells Dr Phil FIRST that he had gone back downstairs.

 

[UKGuy]

I don’t believe the golf club incident was anything but an accident because if it had been inten


I have always believed the golf club incident was accidental because if, as some believe, her fatal injury was administered by Burke, then the golf club blow would have been as severe as her fatal head injury!

Logic101,
The important aspect regarding the golf club incident is not whether it was accidental or not.


It's the behavior of Patsy : she takes JonBenet to a medical facility immediately and receives a diagnoses and prognosis, including that of facial surgery.

It all works out in the end and everything soon returns to normal.

Why does this matter, well consider the events of Christmas Day night and into the morning and ask yourself was JonBenet afforded medical attention right away?

If you compare and contrast these two events in JonBenet's short life it can help you decide if one might be an accident and the other might not!

.

 

[HEY YOU!]

I don’t believe the golf club incident was anything but an accident because if it had been inten


I have always believed the golf club incident was accidental because if, as some believe, her fatal injury was administered by Burke, then the golf club blow would have been as severe as her fatal head injury!

Or after the golf club incident, he knew he had to hit harder. Just a thought.

 

[HEY YOU!]

I remember that slightly differently. I remember John being caught unaware after Burke tells Dr Phil FIRST that he had gone back downstairs.

I remember that both Burke and John talked about putting together a toy before bed. What toy was it?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I remember that both Burke and John talked about putting together a toy before bed. What toy was it?

HEY YOU!,
BPD interview April 49, 1997
TT: Okay. (inaudible) Let’s go back to the 25th, sorry about that. Get home about nine, nine-fifteenish, Burke’s downstairs playing; do you remember what kind of toy that was?

JR: Oh, it was a little thing that kind of unfolded, and it was like car ramp or something and then it folded all back together and it made something else.

TT: Was it like (inaudible) . . .Was it like putting stickers on it?

JR: Well, it was a plastic thing he had to assemble and he had some stickers too, and uh, he was intent on getting it done before he went to bed, so . . .

What I wonder is, was that toy still downstairs the morning of the 26th?

 

[UKGuy]

All depends on what Burke’s downstairs means: is that down the basement steps, or down the staircase to the room where the Christmas Gifts were laid beneath the tree?

.

 

[icedtea4me]

All depends on what Burke’s downstairs means: is that down the basement steps, or down the staircase to the room where the Christmas Gifts were laid beneath the tree?

.

I should think that it means down the staircase to the room where the Christmas gifts were laid beneath the tree. After all, why would they put brand new toys down in a basement such as theirs?

 

[UKGuy]

I should think that it means down the staircase to the room where the Christmas gifts were laid beneath the tree. After all, why would they put brand new toys down in a basement such as theirs?

icedtea4me,
I tend to agree, its just that some of John's early statements have been retracted, or revised, consider his remarks regarding Burke's upcoming birthday gifts in the wine-cellar where he states 'Patsy never knew they were there', then later Patsy says she opened those gifts, onto John advising Dr. Phil he put Burke to bed using the flashlight, in distinction to what Patsy says he would normally use the flashlight for.

Patsy or John hid Burke's birthday gifts down in the basement. The role of the wine-cellar is open for debate.

Reading between the lines I get the impression the R's arrived home and it was business as usual where they all did their own thing with Patsy wanting everyone off to bed as they were flying off the following morning?

JonBenet dressed for bed, had her dressed in ponytails and snacked in the breakfast bar along with Burke who might have been dressed in his blue pajama top and bottoms of an unknown color.

Left to their own devices as Patsy was busy packing for the flight and John was getting ready for bed.

Burke and JonBenet left the breakfast bar and headed upstairs to share JonBenet's bedroom possibly complete with the flashlight?


The rest is history.


.

 

[Logic101]

Logic101,
The important aspect regarding the golf club incident is not whether it was accidental or not.


It's the behavior of Patsy : she takes JonBenet to a medical facility immediately and receives a diagnoses and prognosis, including that of facial surgery.

It all works out in the end and everything soon returns to normal.

Why does this matter, well consider the events of Christmas Day night and into the morning and ask yourself was JonBenet afforded medical attention right away?

If you compare and contrast these two events in JonBenet's short life it can help you decide if one might be an accident and the other might not!

.

My entire post was based on whether or not Burke had such a vindictive nature as to intentionally try to fatally harm his sister and I don’t believe that he did!