Linda arndt's gut feeling on 12/26

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by ellen13, Sep 9, 2006.

  1. ellen13

    ellen13 New Member

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    :confused: okay, linda said when she was around jr near the x-mas tree, she had her finger on her gun or something like that, as if she had a sick feeling in her gut that it was he, jr who had killed jbr. (sorry, not verbatim)
    i thought a lot about that this week after i opened my door to a psycho neighbor and saw the look in his eye. had i had a gun in a holster, i probably would have wanted to pull it on him.
    here's my question: i wonder how many times linda arndt's instinct and gut feelings were right about someone or something-a woman's intuition with police background?? i mean we knew lou smit's stats for solving unsolved crime, but what about hers?:confused:
    just curious for anyone whose interested.
     
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  3. Love_Mama

    Love_Mama Rest In Peace

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    I'd say her gut feeling about thinking JR did it.......was Close. I think Patsy did it and John covered for her. Also think that LInda should never had picked up the body and moved it! THEN she should have thrown all the guests OUT of the house and TOLD JR. and wife to stay there. Seem's to me all the cops at the house seemed to be afraid of the Ramseys...........

    xxxxxxxxxoooooo
    mama
     
  4. angelwngs

    angelwngs New Member

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    How many homicides/kidnappings had Linda Arndt worked in her entire life?
    For that matter how many had the entire, current Boulder PD ever worked?

    Very few, if my memory serves me correctly.

    A lone female detective, who had called for back-up and had received none for far too long during the day of the 26th, would, IMO, feel as if the entire situation was already totally out of hand, even by the time she arrived on the scene. Given that it was thought to be a kidnapping and she was female, she was probably even more hesitant to kick everyone out of the home and secure it as it should have been even if it was still thought to be a kidnapping. After JBR"s body was found, IMO things just continued to escilate to mass confusion. Did she perform logically and professionally as she should have? Nope. Did she do the best that she was capable of under the circumstances of the dysfunction evident within her own department? Probably.

    (Please excuse my generalizations about the fact that she was female. I know this opinion is politically incorrect, but I sincerely believe that females in certain roles, being given equal power of a male counterpart is often, at best, absurd. Many females either let it go to their head and force an unnecessary 'show of power' to demonstrate their "ability" to do the job as well as their male counterparts or fail miserably to stand up to the job at hand. Go ahead. Shoot me now. I know I often say exactly what I think and should keep my mouth shut! :eek: )
     
  5. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    I think a competent female officer is every bit as capable of handling a dangerous situation as competent male officer.
    Regarding the "gut" or "hunch" of an officer, that can lead to a lot of trouble, IMO.It is a good competent officer that knows how to act on their "instinct" and that usually involves skill.
     
  6. sandraladeda

    sandraladeda Inactive

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    I remember an interview from way back in which Linda Arndt describes this "gut feeling" and "looking into JR's eyes and just knowng he did it". In more recent years, as I have become more interested (aka obsessed) with this case, I have been surprised that, having had such a strong feeling on day 1 of the investigation, why did she turn into such a toolbox as far as pursuing justice for JBR? Someone please correct me on where things turned around for her, because didn't she eventually get kind of chummy with the Rs, or at least PR? I though I read that somewhere.....

    In any event, I would think any cop who felt she had "looked into the eyes of a killer" would not stop until JR came to justice. Why did she do goofy things like withold her investigative notes from LE?
     
  7. capps

    capps New Member

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    While it was still considered a kidnapping,Det.Arndt felt secure enough in John Ramsey,and felt no threat in John Ramsey to ask him to search the house on his own ...moments later as John brings up JonBenet's body,Det.Arndt knew then and there that John was the killer of JonBenet,even to the point of checking how many bullets she had in her gun.I'm sure her attitude towards John changed quite a bit,and I'm sure she shared her "instant revelation" with the rest of the LE.I don't call that professional.

    I'd get myself an attorney real quick.
     
  8. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    Yes,she did,I think she said it was because she always felt JR was the killer and PR the victim of him.
     
  9. JMO8778

    JMO8778 ..at the beach!

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    I don't know how right on target she was,but I think she could see in his eyes and from his look that he knew what happened to her,and was giving her a threatening look.That much seems plausable to me.
     
  10. Old Broad

    Old Broad New Member

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    There's been to many times in my own life that I've seen people be fooled/wrong about someone. They may be fooled into thinking someone is good, when in fact they do very bad things, and sometimes they can believe someone did a very bad thing when in fact they did not. Linda had already totally lost any control of the crime scene and then she is presented with the body of a dead 6 year old girl. IMO she had no clue as to what to do, she needed backup and a lot of help hours before!! I would not put much trust in her judgement at that time. Many times people see what they want to see, regardless of what the truth is.

    OB
     
  11. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    You got it Capps. Then people find it odd that the R's got attorneys.
     
  12. leighl

    leighl New Member

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    In reference to the original post,

    In general I agree that going with one's initial observations and gut feeling is often the clearest path and best source of information. That's why I believe that any investigation or speculation at this point should focus on reports, notes, evidence, interviews, etc. collected/made within the first few hours/days after the supposed "kidnapping" and subsequent discovery of JB's body.

    I give little credence to theories based on interviews, remembrances, behaviours, observations, etc. occurring months or years after the fact. By the time the bits and pieces of the case have been plastered all over various media outlets, intertwined with rumour and mere innuendo, guessing, emotions and prejudices which have nothing to do with the case at hand (none of which are grounded in clear, observable, verifiable fact), people are remembering what they have been coached/pressured/conditioned to remember, what they think they should remember, and only those things that their egos will allow them to remember because they have devoted so much time, energy, argument, and other resources to pursuing one theory that, for whatever reason, they simply are not willing to relinquish -- even at the cost of wrongly accusing someone or never solving the case.

    That said, we cannot be sure LA's “gut feelings” were really that. She did not actually make notes on the case until 5 years after the fact, and even then such notes were transcribed from voice recordings by a friend. By that point any notes made were clouded, tainted, and/or influenced by her current feelings about the case, relationship with the R's, frustrations, prejudices etc., which is really too bad. Had she made her notes immediately, perhaps we would have a clearer picture with which to work/solve this case.

    I am not saying that the way this case has been bungled rests on LA’s shoulders alone, she is human and was dealing with a crime absolutely beyond the realm of humaneness and understanding.

    Dealing with this crime around Christmas/New Year’s, within a department not equipped/experienced to deal with crimes of this nature, etc. all contributed to the break down in following best practice. Her supervisor should have stepped in and allowed her time off from the hands on part of the investigation in order to take care of the paperwork end, or, at the very least, hired out the transcription.

    Anyone with experience in transcription, law enforcement, medical, social work practice, etc. knows that shorthand notes and voice recorded notes by their very nature/neccessity are often made in haste, with a few quick catch words and phrases meant to conjure feelings, pictures, and general lines of thoughts about a particular case.

    Voice recorded notes are often made when there is so much information coming in that one cannot possibly encode and organize it into long term memory immediately, much less write down all that has happened. Thus short notes and catch phrases/words are made to return to the moment, remember the entire picture. If we don’t transcribe/expand these shorthand/voice recorded notes within a certain amount of time, all the details of the broader picture, our initial lines of thought, etc. never make it into long term memory, and thus when we try many years afterwards to transcribe them, we simply are not getting the entire story -- those catch phrases and words hold no meaning any more, the ability of catch phrases and words to conjure the entire picture has dissolved -- so any gaps are filled in with current day thoughts, prejudices, emotions, etc.
     
  13. IrishMist

    IrishMist You can't control the wind - but you can adjust yo

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    I don't find it odd that they retained attorneys... I found it odd that they got them so quickly.
     
  14. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    Well if LA said she had a gut feeling or a hunch he was the killer when he brought JBR up the stairs, I would say they needed them pretty quick.
     
  15. IrishMist

    IrishMist You can't control the wind - but you can adjust yo

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    Well, I don't think she said that out loud.
     
  16. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    But do you think it affected her actions?
     
  17. Betsy

    Betsy New Member

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    Is this true???
     
  18. IrishMist

    IrishMist You can't control the wind - but you can adjust yo

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    The R's were lawyered up before it had any effect on her actions, IMO.
     
  19. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    When would you say the R' s became aware that they were the main "suspects" so to speak? I remember hearing it reported on the news almost immediately here in CA. It was my initial introduction to this case.
     
  20. IrishMist

    IrishMist You can't control the wind - but you can adjust yo

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    I would say within days, whereas they had lawyers within hours. I don't believe they got attorney's in response to Det. Arndt's gut feeling. Unless they were going on a gut feeling. In which case, what's good for the goose is good for the gander in my book.
     
  21. Jolynna

    Jolynna Active Member

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    That is true.

    In my opinion,Linda Arndt acted in the beginning as if the Ramseys were what she expected them to be, frightened and innocent parents. That is why she allowed the Ramsey's friends and minister to be with them for comfort. That is why, in my opinion, she asked John and Fleet to search the house again.

    I think Arndt assumed because of the Ramsey's obvious affluence (and maybe because their MINISTER was there in support) that these were good people who could be trusted to be allies.

    However, as the day passed, after the body was found and the phone call to the pilot to go to Atlanta made, the red flags became too obvious to ignore.

    Linda Arndt was not the ONLY one to become uneasy about John and Patsy that day.

    I believe that the police allowed the Ramseys to have people over and to wander through the house on the 26th because of their assumptions about certain kinds of people.

    For the police and Ramsey friends to become uncomfortable with the Ramsey's attitude, after being so sympathetic and accommodating in the beginning, something about the Ramseys had to have been off...not right.
     

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