Linguistics

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Holdontoyourhat, Aug 25, 2010.

  1. Holdontoyourhat

    Holdontoyourhat Former Member

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    We apparently don't have fingerprints, but we have linguistics, handwriting, and DNA. Unlike fiber, they are unique signatures that can be matched to its owner, a real person. The person who murdered JBR could ultimately be identified by their DNA, handwriting, or linguistics.

    We've been over handwriting and DNA enough, but what about linguistics? I'm specifically looking for expressions within the ransom note that are probably personal mannerisms. Unique traits, like a signature.

    If it is the tendency of a person to use lines from movies, then that is one of their personal mannerisms.

    If it is the standard practice of someone to end their letters with the closing salutation 'Victory!' then that person is probably matching the linguistic profile of the ransom note author.

    Is there a linguistic profile, and if so what are its characteristics?

    Was this the first ransom note written by this person? Was it the last? Was this the first 3 page letter ever written by this person, or is this person an author, a journalist, or a screenwriter?

    Here's the main question I have: What specific expressions or linguistic profile traits apparent in the ransom note could be expected to be found in other writings by the same person?
     
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  3. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

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    Thanks for putting this up HOTYH, it's interesting.

    I think you for one evaluate the RN as the writer's real feelings.

    There are others who believe it was simply written to taunt the Rs.

    Still others who believe it was written to throw the investigators off the real reason for her death and distract attention from the real killers.

    Perhaps it will be a matter of who you think committed the murder as to how you view the RN.

    As RDI, it obviously locks you into the cover-up scenario.

    As IDI, the possibilities are as broad as are the possibilites of who the murderer is.
     
  4. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    To me, the note matches Patsy in linguistics and handwriting.
     
  5. Holdontoyourhat

    Holdontoyourhat Former Member

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    Someone who ends a letter with the salutation 'Victory!' all the time would be a really strong match to the linguistic profile of the ransom note, wouldn't it? Because its very unique.

    I'll repeat my question: What specific expressions or linguistic profile traits apparent in the ransom note could be expected to be found in other writings by the same person?

    I have a few ideas of my own but I'd like to hear from the regulars.
     
  6. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    Hmm! HOTYH, what would you say if I told you that I knew of someone who had a tendency to speak and write very similarly to how the RN reads?

    If it is the standard practice of someone to end their letters with the closing salutation 'Victory!' then that person is probably matching the linguistic profile of the ransom note author.

    Good questions. I've read some linguistic profiles of this.

    Now we're cooking!

    HOTYH, this might be the best thread you've started.
     
  7. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    Or, just the opposite. Perhaps the analysis of the RN determines who you think did it.
     
  8. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    Well, I guess it would be things like repetition, word combinations, use of punctuation, tendency to use acronyms.

    Those are just the ones I can think of now.
     
  9. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

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    HOTYH, you are a genius!

    No one ends a letter with the salutation "Victory!".
    No one begins a letter with "Listen carefully".

    This is because this is not a ransom note.

    It is a script.

    It was not meant to be read by PR.

    It was meant to be heard by JR.

    The script was to be acted out in a telephone call to JR.

    :woohoo:
     
  10. Holdontoyourhat

    Holdontoyourhat Former Member

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    Well thanks.

    I'm really hoping to get some feedback as to specific expressions in the ransom note that we could expect to see in other writings by the same person.

    Does PR begin letters with 'listen carefully' or end them with 'Victory!'? Has she ever started a sentence with 'At this time...'? What are the specific expressions in the ransom note that match some of PR's preexisting writings?

    I know how you like to focus on PR as RN author...
     
  11. Holdontoyourhat

    Holdontoyourhat Former Member

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    A script or a speech? Or a lecture:

    the delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested
    Use that good southern common sense of yours. Dont try to grow a brain.
    Dont think that killing will be difficult. Follow our instructions...Make sure that you bring...so I advise you not to provoke them...

    This person says so I advise you a lot. This is an example of a specific expression or mannerism that I would expect to see in other writings by this person. Things are this way, so I advise you to do that. Except the author uses no comma. There's no pause.




    Spoken as in a script, speech, or lecture but with no pausing:
    1. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested.
    2. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them.
    It could've been a script, not a ransom note. I thought the ransom note seemed too rhetorical. Wasn't there a phone call the next day?
     
  12. Holdontoyourhat

    Holdontoyourhat Former Member

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    'so I advise you' is repeated, is a word combination, and omits the comma punctuation (no pausing). Can you find this in PR's preexisting writing?
     
  13. Holdontoyourhat

    Holdontoyourhat Former Member

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  14. tapu

    tapu Pretty scary.

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    hi! i happen to BE a linguist. (BA, MA, univ of calif)

    and, i dont know much at all about the case, which is perfect for looking at the note/letter the way you are asking for.

    i left laptop at work. am on iphone. i'll come by tomorrow. i'll have to get h/c of transcript (not the writing)

    looking fwrd to it! --tapu
     
  15. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

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    Ok, well maybe it is me that's the genius LOL.

    I can hear the conversation now:

    Bring!!- Bring!! Bring!! - Bring!!

    Mr Ramsey

    Listen Carefully!
    .....

    She dies.
    She dies.
    She dies.

    It's up to you now John

    Victory!


    Would he have used a foreign accent?

    Or would he have used a voice synthesizer to sound like Darth Vader?

    And what is S.B.T.C ? Notice, no full-stop after C?
    Was it short hand for something to be spoken, or is it a stage direction?
     
  16. Holdontoyourhat

    Holdontoyourhat Former Member

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    Here's the text:


    http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/16/ramsey.ransom.note/

    "Mr. Ramsey: Listen Carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business, but not the country it serves.
    At this time, we have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.
    You will withdraw $118,000 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank.
    When you get home, you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between 8 and 10 a.m. tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence and earlier pickup of your daughter.
    Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains for a proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them.
    Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as police or F.B.I. will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in way marked or tampered with, she dies. You can try to deceive us, but be warned we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics.
    You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to outsmart us. Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny, as well as the authorities.
    Don't try to grow a brain John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us, John. Use that good, Southern common sense of yours. It's up to you now John! Victory! S.B.T.C."
     
  17. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    I can't wait to hear what tapu has to say about the linguistics. Personally, I don't think the writer of the note had to have been the person who killed JonBenet, but I do believe the writer either intentionally or unintentionally wanted to cast John in a very bad light.
     
  18. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    Hm.
    I just noticed something.

    You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult.

    What is the writer implying?That it's no big deal for "fat cats" to kill?According to the writer,both him and JR are fat cats.So what exactly do they have in common,killing,something else?
     
  19. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    I always had the feeling that there are actually two parts

    1.Mr. Ramsey: Listen Carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business, but not the country it serves.
    At this time, we have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.
    You will withdraw $118,000 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank.
    When you get home, you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between 8 and 10 a.m. tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence and earlier pickup of your daughter.
    Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains for a proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them.
    Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as police or F.B.I. will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in way marked or tampered with, she dies. You can try to deceive us, but be warned we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics.
    You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to outsmart us. Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny, as well as the authorities.



    2.Don't try to grow a brain John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us, John. Use that good, Southern common sense of yours. It's up to you now John! Victory! S.B.T.C."


    To me it sounds like nr.1 and nr.2 are from two different stories.The tone is totally different.Nr.2 is full of ego,nr.1 is instructions.
     
  20. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

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    I can almost agree with this to the extent that I can imagine No 1 being spoken flatly with a voice synthesizer a la Darth Vader. It's all business and lacking in emotion. Part 2 on the other hand, is emotional and sounds like he is being taunted and nagged!!
     
  21. Holdontoyourhat

    Holdontoyourhat Former Member

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    Here's my take on it:

    You are not the only fat cat around [there are other fat cats besides you] so don't think that killing [other fat cats] will be difficult.
     

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