Lisa has been Missing for 6 Months now

[hambirg]

Snipped to respond to part of this post. My responses in red.

food for thought: there was at least one cadaver dog hit @

-- the anthony home (caylee's remains found; not taken by "Zanny" as alleged)
There were at least TWO hits in this case (I think there were more, but thats off the top of my head)
-- lauryn dickens' home (mother convicted of 2nd; child not given to sitter as alleged; still missing)
Several dog hits were reported in this case.
-- bianca jones' home (father charged with murder; child not taken by carjacker as alleged; still missing)
LE found, again, SEVERAL hits in this case: the car, home and carseat to name three.


I believe the poster was pointing out the fact there was only ONE dog hit in this case. And yes, I realize there COULD be more to back up this one hit, but we the public have no such knowledge.

Please provide proof that there was only one dog hit in this case. TIA. .

 

[hambirg]

It's a darn good thing that we don't pick jurors based on their ability to "read" people. hoh:

The point is that members of a jury are compelled to vote their conscience. This nonsense that they must follow the letter of the law and their hands are bound by that is hooey. The idea that they are not allowed to use judgement is false. They are asked to judge and weigh witness testimony in every case. Is the witness credible? That takes judgement and "reading" people. In fact, juries are compelled to vote their conscience even if it opposes the law! It is OK if they find a witness, or the defendant, or any of the lawyers or even the judge him/herself hinky. I, for one, am glad that I live somewhere that picks juries, and compels them to vote a JUST verdict regardless of the law. Google "jury nullification." Not that it applies here. .. but I find the argument abrasive. Juries are asked to vote their conscience. Period.

 

[hambirg]

Look at Keegan Schuchart. His mother was shot in a parking lot and he was taken by a woman desperate for a baby. It's crazy, but random stranger abductions DO happen. It's why I'm fence sitting - there's just not enough information for me. After Jaycee Dugard, I've learned not to jump to conclusions.

I hear Jaycee Dugard brought up a lot in this case. She was a much older child taken for sexual purposes. The same is not true for Lisa. Babies Lisa age are taken by some whack-a-doo that wanted a baby or for illegal adoption. I think the whack-a-doo theory has been ruled out for me. She was taken from her home, not a hospital, medical facility, or daycare facility. Whack-a-doos usually have some kind of prior relationship with the child and are found out fairly quickly. Not the case here. Illegal adoption? I would consider it if the parents had a consistent story and were less defensive and more proactive about finding their missing baby. That leaves me leaning towards the most statistically likely scenario. . .Lisa was harmed by somebody in the home and a cover-up ensued.

 

[Melon]

Please provide proof that there was only one dog hit in this case. TIA. .

I think this is the one thing that drives me crazy in these discussions.:banghead: People will allow for a kidnapper despite any concrete evidence pointing to one. People will allow for a benelovent abductor, despite the odds that children are very rarely abducted and kept for altruistic purposes.

Some of those same people seemingly refuse to allow the possibility of more than one hit (or more than one dog verifying the same hit) because it is not explicitly spelled out in the search warrant. We know the warrant was written after at least one HDR hit, we know the FBI is involved (with all their resources), we know they were looking for a body when the warrant was served, we know LE wanted the warrant sealed. We know there are policies and procedures to follow. Those policies and procedures become even more critical when investigating a possible death of an baby. Verifying the HRD hits would be high on the priority list for this case, one would think. I don't see how you can look at all of those things and automatically conclude "only one" hit.

LE does not have to lay out their entire case to get a judge to sign a search warrant. Why would they do so in this case? For those that conclude "only one" hit, do they expect to see every hit listed in the warrant if there are multiple hits? I have to leave the possibility open that there was more than one hit or multiple verifications of the same spot. I can conclude we were told about one hit, I simply do not see enough information to conclude there was ever only one hit. YMMV.

 

[AnaTeresa]

I hear Jaycee Dugard brought up a lot in this case. She was a much older child taken for sexual purposes. The same is not true for Lisa. Babies Lisa age are taken by some whack-a-doo that wanted a baby or for illegal adoption. I think the whack-a-doo theory has been ruled out for me. She was taken from her home, not a hospital, medical facility, or daycare facility. Whack-a-doos usually have some kind of prior relationship with the child and are found out fairly quickly. Not the case here. Illegal adoption? I would consider it if the parents had a consistent story and were less defensive and more proactive about finding their missing baby. That leaves me leaning towards the most statistically likely scenario. . .Lisa was harmed by somebody in the home and a cover-up ensued.

The point about Jaycee Dugard is not to compare cases - of course people who abduct older children do so for different motivations than those who abduct babies. That's not in dispute. The point is that making an assumption about a case (her stepfather did it, she was likely deceased, etc.) can be a bad thing, because although the statistics say one thing, there are always outliers and exceptions.

And, Keegan Schuchart was taken by a complete stranger in a parking lot, which was the other case I mentioned.

 

[RANCH]

I think this is the one thing that drives me crazy in these discussions.:banghead: People will allow for a kidnapper despite any concrete evidence pointing to one. People will allow for a benelovent abductor, despite the odds that children are very rarely abducted and kept for altruistic purposes.

Some of those same people seemingly refuse to allow the possibility of more than one hit (or more than one dog verifying the same hit) because it is not explicitly spelled out in the search warrant. We know the warrant was written after at least one HDR hit, we know the FBI is involved (with all their resources), we know they were looking for a body when the warrant was served, we know LE wanted the warrant sealed. We know there are policies and procedures to follow. Those policies and procedures become even more critical when investigating a possible death of an baby. Verifying the HRD hits would be high on the priority list for this case, one would think. I don't see how you can look at all of those things and automatically conclude "only one" hit.

LE does not have to lay out their entire case to get a judge to sign a search warrant. Why would they do so in this case? For those that conclude "only one" hit, do they expect to see every hit listed in the warrant if there are multiple hits? I have to leave the possibility open that there was more than one hit or multiple verifications of the same spot. I can conclude we were told about one hit, I simply do not see enough information to conclude there was ever only one hit. YMMV.

BBM
We only know about the one HRD dog hit. Sure, there could be more than one hit. Exactly what LE has in the way of evidence is a mystery. Whatever they do have hasn't been enough for an arrest at this point. Maybe their still trying to put a case together but I have doubts about that. JMO.

 

[redheadedgal]

1) because although the statistics say one thing, there are always outliers and exceptions.

2) Keegan Schuchart was taken by a complete stranger in a parking lot

1) any of those "outliers and exceptions" have a cadaver dog hit?

2) there was concrete evidence of the abduction... his mother was shot and killed. there is no such evidence that lisa was "taken" other than the word of her parents. and, keegan was recovered which fits with the statistics of stranger abduction... i believe whisperer has posted these stats several times.

 

[AnaTeresa]

I'm not going to list every single case that didn't follow the normal stats. I simply posted my opinion that, because of such cases, I PERSONALLY do not have enough evidence to come to any conclusions about this case. We have heard so little about it, the cadaver dog hit is not enough for me.

I'm not going to go round and round about this, since that's basically all Lisa's forum has devolved into. I'm one of the minority fence sitters because of cases like Jaycee's where the unexpected happened. End of story.

 

[melissasmom]

Snipped to respond to part of this post. My responses in red.




Please provide proof that there was only one dog hit in this case. TIA. .

I am not really sure what you are asking for. I can post links to articles that state "cadaver dog hit at Lisa Irwin's home" (or some variation thereof). In fact proabably dozens of articles. I can post a link to the search warrant indicating the dog hit. That is what has been made public in this case.

Not going to go waste my time digging up those articles right now however. I have a feeling that you have seen these articles yourself, and I don't care to go around in circles about this matter again, it accomplishes nothing. If you honestly want links stating the fact of the one dog hit, I will provide them per TOS.

JMO

 

[redheadedgal]

i didn't ask for a list of every single case that didn't follow normal stats... i asked if any (even one) with a cadaver dog hit were later proven abducted by a stranger. no case was provided... b/c there are none? however,


Decades of statistics on infant abductions in the U.S. suggest one of the least likely scenarios in this week’s disappearance of a Kansas City baby is that a stranger broke into her home and took the child as her family slept.

http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com...u-s-suggest-stranger-home-abduction-unlikely/

 

[norest4thewicked]

I'm not going to list every single case that didn't follow the normal stats. I simply posted my opinion that, because of such cases, I PERSONALLY do not have enough evidence to come to any conclusions about this case. We have heard so little about it, the cadaver dog hit is not enough for me.

I'm not going to go round and round about this, since that's basically all Lisa's forum has devolved into. I'm one of the minority fence sitters because of cases like Jaycee's where the unexpected happened. End of story.

I am wondering if you can name one case in which parents whose child was taken and found after six months, did nothing after the fourth day the child went missing? Can you name one case where the parents didn't cooperate with the police for months and years, where their child was found dead or alive and they weren't responsible? JUST ONE.

 

[redheadedgal]

I am wondering if you can name one case in which parents whose child was taken and found after six months, did nothing after the fourth day the child went missing? Can you name one case where the parents didn't cooperate with the police for months and years, where their child was found dead or alive and they weren't responsible? JUST ONE.

wait! they haven't done "nothing"... there was the creation of a very amateur website and that appearance on dr phil (where DB whined so much about all the nasty meanies on the internet) that should be considered... plus all those pages of "notes" that throw others under the bus... !! that's not nothing !!

 

[norest4thewicked]

wait! they haven't done "nothing"... there was the creation of a very amateur website and that appearance on dr phil (where DB whined so much about all the nasty meanies on the internet) that should be considered... plus all those pages of "notes" that throw others under the bus... !! that's not nothing !!

Well, and Dr. Phil isn't even in a lot of major cities. But I guess that doesn't bother them, since they don't seem to want Lisa to be found.

Oh yeah...the notes...I forgot about those.

Can you name ONE mother of a missing baby that wrote notes for LE rather than assisting them by answering questions?

 

[redheadedgal]

no, i can't.

and i still am wondering why DB wasn't at the 6 month balloon release...

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I know DGC..I hear ya.

They pulled it off by having a benefactor step in and hire three different High profile defense attorneys. At about the third day, they had a Law professor with them for a LE interview. All in all, they had four different defense attorneys. They have an international one who panders to the media and threatens LE to dare try and bring them in.

LE could have solved this case within two weeks....but the rich oil woman from Texas stepped in and protected them and spent major bucks doing it.

:seeya: Just thought of something while reading your post :

The "benefactor : Now WHY hasn't LE gone to Texas to interview this woman ?

LE should have flown out to Texas like 6 months ago to interview her !

LE should have INVESTIGATED her "connection" as well as her "interest" in DB and JI ...

:moo:

 

[dog.gone.cute]

no, i can't.

and i still am wondering why DB wasn't at the 6 month balloon release...

Good Question : WHY wasn't Deb at the 6 month Ballon Release ? Besides the fact that her attorneyS do NOT want her talking to the media without them there "holding her hand" ?

IF -- IF -- a "kidnapper" came into their home in the middle of the night and "abducted" baby Lisa, then WHY is Deb "hiding" ?

JMO and MOO ... but the answer is simple : g u i l t !

:moo::moo::moo:

 

[redheadedgal]

i don't think it's guilt. she went on dr phil in february (but with no audience) and she had no problem talking to media when lisa first went "missing"... so what's different now?

 

[4Jacy]

no, i can't.

and i still am wondering why DB wasn't at the 6 month balloon release...

"adult time" perhaps

 

[dog.gone.cute]

i don't think it's guilt. she went on dr phil in february (but with no audience) and she had no problem talking to media when lisa first went "missing"... so what's different now?

:seeya: Good points ...

This is what I was thinking ... FWIW ... lol ...

Maybe Deb does not want to face the "backlash" from the "public" she would have received IF she had went to the 6 Month Balloon Release ?

Let may say this : I have read other "moderated forums" and the "comments sections" in the MSM articles on Baby Lisa, and the MAJORITY believe Deb is guilty. And there were "protesters" at the home recently.

This is JMO and MOO ... but Deb does NOT come across at all as "sincere" and does NOT come across concerned about her allegedly "kidnapped" baby ...

Now, IF Deb was concerned about Lisa still being out there and "kidnapped", she would have nothing to hide and would be "banging down LE's door" asking them to find her baby !

And Deb is NOT ...

It is not always "what" you do ... it is "what" you are NOT doing ...

:moo::moo::moo:

 

[norest4thewicked]

no, i can't.

and i still am wondering why DB wasn't at the 6 month balloon release...

Deb is a coward. She either killed her child or covered it up. She feels that a LOT of people know it and she can't stand the scrutiny of being out in public and her guilt is screaming out by her hiding. They know that they have to do something, because of the public outcry. So, they decide that Jeremy will go to the balloon release and she sits on her butt inside her house and answers softball questions on the phone to a reporter.

This was all done for the 6 month anniversary. Now they can sit back on their butts and wait for the one year anniversary. Then, Deb can maybe draw a photo of Lisa to give to the media, or something equally unimportant to satisfy people enough to say that they are actually doing anything to find Lisa. :maddening: