Loved to Death

Before we get started, let me be clear: this is a hypothetical, purely for the sake of argument.

Here we go. I'm merely speculating, but I think PR figured that JB would make her famous as a beauty queen. With JB dead, that was no longer an option. But make a good crime scene and do your best acting job and you will become a magnet for sympathy. She becomes the ultimate victim. Michael Kane did an interview in 2002 where he said that the staging of the crime was so overdone, it would have to have been done by someone with a proclivity for showmanship. He used these words: "It was a very theatrical production and Patsy is a very theatrical person." He described her as a narcissist who "loves being known as the mother of a murdered beauty queen." It's an old story. History is full of people who, once they've outlived their usefulness, have become worth more to a cause dead than alive. Che Guevara is a good example. As is John F. Kennedy. Or the one that JB seemed destined to accompany: Marilyn Monroe. Let me lay this illustration on you: PR often likened her daughter to Marilyn Monroe, even printing it on JonBenet's name badge at one pageant. Who better to associate your beauty queen daughter with than the most famous blonde of all time? But, what most people overlook is this: one of the big reasons why Marilyn's legend is so strong is because she died tragically. Marilyn died young and at the peak of her fame, her beauty undiminished. She was not allowed to grow old and obscure. Instead, the gods lifted her up to them in full loveliness.

Well, what happened to Marilyn happened to JonBenet, and I can't help but wonder if for the same reason. I don't necessarily mean that JonBenet's death was premeditated (although, there may be those who do). I'm just saying that, if it did start out as an unintentional killing, it might explain to all those naysayers why 911 wasn't called and why all of the staging was done: a child beauty queen, so destined for greatness killed in a common, garden-variety, run-of-the-mill, humdrum domestic incident? That would NEVER do! She was so spectacular in life. She HAD to be spectacular in death. Nothing but the best (or worst, depending on how you see it) for JonBenet. And she IS spectacular in death! Her death made her more well-known to more people than all of her performances put together. Not to mention that it's almost 15 years later and people STILL remember her! Would a simple domestic death merit such attention? No. But a child beauty queen killed in her own home under the noses of her loved ones on what is supposed to be the happiest day of the year...how cool is that!

And it had the perfect capper: that massive public funeral, where everyone could pledge their condolences and see the perfect little princess, beautiful forever, displayed in a coffin that served the same purpose as a jewel box. PR acted like a mother would at her daughter's wedding day, because it WAS JB's wedding day. As a former poster titled "voynich" put it, a wedding day with Death. Or if you prefer, her wedding day with God.

And all of it motivated by love. I've considered the idea that PR was saving JB from something, something that made it necessary to preserve her in memory as perfect, but this is heart-wrenching enough as it is.

Okay. Let the chips fall where they may.

I thought a lot about this thread of yours lately.
I was reading about how JR reacted to Beth's death.Sad and emotional,really and I convinced he really really LOVED Beth.Maybe he died (emotionally) as well when she died.This obviously changed the man completely even if we don't really know how.And his change probably changed PR.
Beth seemed the perfect daughter,life&school&everything.
Do you think he ever compared the two?Beth and JB?
Do you think he was ever concerned about JB's future from this point of view?Beth would have had a beautiful future ,what about JB?A beauty queen?I doubt this is what he had in mind for her,but could he have resisted PR and Nedra?Maybe deep inside he was disappointed.
 
I thought a lot about this thread of yours lately.

I'm glad to hear that. I hate to think that any of my time here is wasted, or that I'm wasting someone else's time.

I was reading about how JR reacted to Beth's death.Sad and emotional,really and I convinced he really really LOVED Beth.Maybe he died (emotionally) as well when she died.This obviously changed the man completely even if we don't really know how.And his change probably changed PR.
Beth seemed the perfect daughter,life&school&everything.
Do you think he ever compared the two?Beth and JB?
Do you think he was ever concerned about JB's future from this point of view?Beth would have had a beautiful future ,what about JB?A beauty queen?I doubt this is what he had in mind for her,but could he have resisted PR and Nedra?Maybe deep inside he was disappointed.

madeleine, I'd like to pursue this further, if that's all right.
 
I thought a lot about this thread of yours lately.
I was reading about how JR reacted to Beth's death.Sad and emotional,really and I convinced he really really LOVED Beth.Maybe he died (emotionally) as well when she died.This obviously changed the man completely even if we don't really know how.And his change probably changed PR.
Beth seemed the perfect daughter,life&school&everything.
Do you think he ever compared the two?Beth and JB?
Do you think he was ever concerned about JB's future from this point of view?Beth would have had a beautiful future ,what about JB?A beauty queen?I doubt this is what he had in mind for her,but could he have resisted PR and Nedra?Maybe deep inside he was disappointed.

Before we get started, let me be clear: this is a hypothetical, purely for the sake of argument.
This is not only not true, it is silly, quite frankly. In reality, this is the foundation, if it can be called that, of SD's position. It is certainly "hypothetical" at best, but that is not what SD really believes. Proof, you demand. It is abundant. Read his posts. The following constitutes what he believes really took place, including the psychological underpinnings.

Here we go. I'm merely speculating,

(Excuse me. This opening statement, "but I think PR figured" is serious, considered opinion and not "merely speculation" at all.)
Here we go. I'm merely speculating, but I think PR figured that JB would make her famous as a beauty queen. With JB dead, that was no longer an option. But make a good crime scene and do your best acting job and you will become a magnet for sympathy. She becomes the ultimate victim. Michael Kane did an interview in 2002 where he said that the staging of the crime was so overdone, it would have to have been done by someone with a proclivity for showmanship. He used these words: "It was a very theatrical production and Patsy is a very theatrical person." He described her as a narcissist who "loves being known as the mother of a murdered beauty queen." It's an old story. History is full of people who, once they've outlived their usefulness, have become worth more to a cause dead than alive. Che Guevara is a good example. As is John F. Kennedy. Or the one that JB seemed destined to accompany: Marilyn Monroe. Let me lay this illustration on you: PR often likened her daughter to Marilyn Monroe, even printing it on JonBenet's name badge at one pageant. Who better to associate your beauty queen daughter with than the most famous blonde of all time? But, what most people overlook is this: one of the big reasons why Marilyn's legend is so strong is because she died tragically. Marilyn died young and at the peak of her fame, her beauty undiminished. She was not allowed to grow old and obscure. Instead, the gods lifted her up to them in full loveliness.

Well, what happened to Marilyn happened to JonBenet, and I can't help but wonder if for the same reason. I don't necessarily mean that JonBenet's death was premeditated (although, there may be those who do).

"And away we go!"

I'm just saying that, if it did start out as an unintentional killing, it might explain to all those naysayers why 911 wasn't called and why all of the staging was done: a child beauty queen, so destined for greatness killed in a common, garden-variety, run-of-the-mill, humdrum domestic incident? That would NEVER do! She was so spectacular in life. She HAD to be spectacular in death. Nothing but the best (or worst, depending on how you see it) for JonBenet. And she IS spectacular in death! Her death made her more well-known to more people than all of her performances put together. Not to mention that it's almost 15 years later and people STILL remember her! Would a simple domestic death merit such attention? No. But a child beauty queen killed in her own home under the noses of her loved ones on what is supposed to be the happiest day of the year...how cool is that!

And it had the perfect capper: that massive public funeral, where everyone could pledge their condolences and see the perfect little princess, beautiful forever, displayed in a coffin that served the same purpose as a jewel box. PR acted like a mother would at her daughter's wedding day, because it WAS JB's wedding day. As a former poster titled "voynich" put it, a wedding day with Death. Or if you prefer, her wedding day with God.

And all of it motivated by love. I've considered the idea that PR was saving JB from something, something that made it necessary to preserve her in memory as perfect, but this is heart-wrenching enough as it is.

Okay. Let the chips fall where they may.
 
This is not only not true, it is silly, quite frankly. In reality, this is the foundation, if it can be called that, of SD's position.

Not really the foundation. It's built ON the foundation. But otherwise, you've pretty much summed it up.

It is certainly "hypothetical" at best, but that is not what SD really believes.

Whether I do or not, I still felt, and feel, that it was worth pursuing. Yes, it is what I believe. But I'm not 100% on it. That's partly why I offered it up for discussion: to find its weaknesses.

(Excuse me. This opening statement, "but I think PR figured" is serious, considered opinion and not "merely speculation" at all.)

Come now, Fang. Surely by now you realize that EVERYTHING I say here is my serious, considered (like you wouldn't believe!) opinion?
 
I'm just saying that, if it did start out as an unintentional killing, it might explain to all those naysayers why 911 wasn't called and why all of the staging was done:
SD

let's see. they thought she was dead, so they staged the strangulation to make her death appear spectacular? they really weren't so much afraid of going to jail as they were fearful Joni wouldn't attain celebrity status like Marilyn Monroe?


a child beauty queen, so destined for greatness killed in a common, garden-variety, run-of-the-mill, humdrum domestic incident? That would NEVER do! She was so spectacular in life. She HAD to be spectacular in death. Nothing but the best (or worst, depending on how you see it) for JonBenet. And she IS spectacular in death! Her death made her more well-known to more people
SD

And Patsy had UMI?
 
SD

let's see. they thought she was dead, so they staged the strangulation to make her death appear spectacular? they really weren't so much afraid of going to jail as they were fearful Joni wouldn't attain celebrity status like Marilyn Monroe?

I'd say the first was foremost in their minds (probably the only thing on JR's mind). The second was most likely PR's theatrical instincts coming through.

SD

And Patsy had UMI?

I don't know, Fang. I'll probably never be 100% on that, one way or the other.
 
They feigned strangulation to promote her death as sensational; murdered spectacularly to ensure she got the kind of attention and fame in death that she deserved in life?
Is that right?


Res ipsa loquitur
 
They feigned strangulation to promote her death as sensational; murdered spectacularly to ensure she got the kind of attention and fame in death that she deserved in life?
Is that right?

That's a good way to put it.
 
They feigned strangulation to promote her death as sensational; murdered spectacularly to ensure she got the kind of attention and fame in death that she deserved in life?
Is that right?


Res ipsa loquitur

I don't think this is why they staged her strangulation. While they knew there would be extensive media coverage of this murder and the subsequent funeral, I don't think for one minute they strangled their daughter so it would be a spectacular death!
They staged the strangulation because the head blow seemed to have killed her and there was no outward signs of the head blow or why she was dead. The damage was internal. So here was their child, lying dead (actually not quite dead yet but they might not have known that) and so how to explain it? They couldn't bring themselves to just dispose of her body elsewhere, so they had to provide a cause of death that was apparent as soon as you looked at her. They may not even have realized there would be an autopsy (that would disclose the head bash - and pineapple) and I am sure in the heat of those moments they were not thinking of the autopsy.
 
Very good. I'd like to know your thoughts first.

I don't know,I hear the song but not the lyrics.I need to do some research first (religious stuff).-rituals,merciful killings,exorcism
Where are JB's medical records btw.Did LE ever get them?Because the R's seemed pretty cool with her death only 5 days after the murder,she's safe now,she's in a better place,she'll never have to suffer.Was she sick or something.Was someone hurting her (outta too much love,we've seen that before) and decided to put an end knowing this will never stop?
And I still don't think it's a coincidence that she died on Christmas night.Could have a religious meaning as well.
 
I don't know,I hear the song but not the lyrics.I need to do some research first (religious stuff).-rituals,merciful killings,exorcism
Where are JB's medical records btw.Did LE ever get them?Because the R's seemed pretty cool with her death only 5 days after the murder,she's safe now,she's in a better place,she'll never have to suffer.Was she sick or something.Was someone hurting her (outta too much love,we've seen that before) and decided to put an end knowing this will never stop?
And I still don't think it's a coincidence that she died on Christmas night.Could have a religious meaning as well.

The DA's office denied a warrant for JB's school AND medical records. I don't know when or if they ever got them.
I just don't see this as a religious-driven killing, though I can see a religious-driven forgiveness if RDI (not so much for an IDI killer, though). While many people who live their lives with religious fervor will forgive anyone who acts against them, I don't see the Rs as being in quite that same place. They might not voice hatred for the killer, but the Rs (and JAR made a POINT of saying he felt "forgiveness") seemed a bit too complacent about the "killer" for me.
 
I don't think this is why they staged her strangulation. While they knew there would be extensive media coverage of this murder and the subsequent funeral, I don't think for one minute they strangled their daughter so it would be a spectacular death!
They staged the strangulation because the head blow seemed to have killed her and there was no outward signs of the head blow or why she was dead. The damage was internal. So here was their child, lying dead (actually not quite dead yet but they might not have known that) and so how to explain it? They couldn't bring themselves to just dispose of her body elsewhere, so they had to provide a cause of death that was apparent as soon as you looked at her.

Why was this important to them?



They may not even have realized there would be an autopsy (that would disclose the head bash - and pineapple) and I am sure in the heat of those moments they were not thinking of the autopsy.
 
I don't know,I hear the song but not the lyrics.I need to do some research first (religious stuff).-rituals,merciful killings,exorcism
Where are JB's medical records btw.Did LE ever get them?

If they did, I certainly don't know about it.

Because the R's seemed pretty cool with her death only 5 days after the murder,she's safe now,she's in a better place,she'll never have to suffer.Was she sick or something.Was someone hurting her (outta too much love,we've seen that before) and decided to put an end knowing this will never stop?

Very good questions.

And I still don't think it's a coincidence that she died on Christmas night.Could have a religious meaning as well.

Maybe. I'm not sold on it, though.
 
If they did, I certainly don't know about it.

Because the R's seemed pretty cool with her death only 5 days after the murder,she's safe now,she's in a better place,she'll never have to suffer.Was she sick or something.Was someone hurting her (outta too much love,we've seen that before) and decided to put an end knowing this will never stop?

Very good questions.

They were in agony. She was in heaven. They were searching for something to sustain them through their grief.

The problem is with us. Where did our empathy go? They seemed "pretty cool" with her death?
 

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