Luka Magotta AKA Eric Newman Trial, Week Nov 20, 2014 - Trial Thread #4

[Rayemonde]

He's just describing the basics of schizophrenia. Positive and negative symptoms. Flattened affect is another one of the negative symptoms. Apparently when people fake, they usually just fake the positive symptoms (hallucinations and delusions) and forget about the negative symptoms (loss of motivation, poverty of speech, flattened affect etc).

 

[Rayemonde]

http://m.smh.com.au/world/no-angel-...of-dismembering-his-lover-20120603-1zqk2.html

Really? That doesn't bode well for an "expert" witness. Where has he been interviewed? :notgood:

MOO

Article from 04/06/2012
"Psychologist Gilles Chamberland told Radio Canada Magnotta exudes "narcissistic, anti-social" behaviour, having described himself as being "incredibly beautiful"."

You can listen to his radio interview online but it's in French.

 

[maxfactor]

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 3h 3 hours ago

And feeling afraid that police are recording conversations and cameras filming him, that's not necessarily unusual either #Magnotta
0 replies 5 retweets 3 favorites
suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 3h 3 hours ago

If #magnotta was harassed by animal rights group, and he was afraid, that would be totally normal
0 replies 3 retweets 3 favorites
suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 3h 3 hours ago

Just because voices are heard, doesn't mean one has lost touch with reality. #Magnotta

This is the kind of thing the jury needs to hear, instead of the defense psychiatrists who called it psychosis.

 

[maxfactor]

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 3h 3 hours ago

Interpersonal relationships suffer, as do ambition, hygiene, vocabulary, Chamberland says #Magnotta

 

[Kamille]

I'm still at a loss as to how LM was able to avoid any attempt at LE interrogation and to refuse any assessments by a prosecution psychiatrist. I'm stunned at the special treatment he received thanks to the demands of Dr. Barth and some kind of...what would you call it? Fear? On behalf of LE? Or who? Why did they send a military plane and a bunch of LE to pick LM up? Why the special treatment? Did they really think he was some kind of crazed Hannibal Lector?

Like I said, I didn't really follow the hunt or the capture but watching this trial unfold it all seems rather silly and over the top. Nothing scary at all about LM. He's just pathetic and didn't require any of that special treatment. But I'll bet he loved every minute of it and manipulated the situation in his favour. LE made a lot of mistakes with this guy. Lets hope the jury doesn't do the same. Nothing special about him at all. He's a manipulator and now a murderer. Time to stop coddling this guy and let him finally pay the consequences for his actions.

MOO

 

[maxfactor]

As Mr. Leclair pointed him to the reams of Mr. Magnotta’s psychiatric records — which Dr. Paris never saw, though he intended to get them — he said that in retrospect, the frequent mentions of schizophrenia “causes me concern, but I don’t take for granted it was the correct diagnosis, given he [Mr. Magnotta] showed none of the symptoms of schizophrenia” he has seen “in the hundreds of cases” he has handled in his long career.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...murder-did-not-see-symptoms-of-schizophrenia/

 

[matou]

Mr. Magnotta’s “moments of disorganization” in his speech and thought “means he went off on a tangent. That’s not a symptom of schizophrenia,” he said bluntly.
He told Mr. Leclair he remembered the interview “vividly” because, such a short time later, the story of Mr. Lin’s slaying was all over the news. But at no time, he said, did Mr. Magnotta have the disorganized speech that is typical of schizophrenics.
Dr. Paris tentatively diagnosed him as suffering from borderline personality disorder, which is characterized by an acute fear of abandonment and unstable relationships, and intended to see Mr. Magnotta again for a further assessment. The plan was that he would be called that summer and given a follow-up appointment at the personality disorders section, and by that time, Dr. Paris said, he would have asked him to release his medical records.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...murder-did-not-see-symptoms-of-schizophrenia/

 

[matou]

As Dr. Chamberland put it once, Mr. Magnotta “said a lot of things to a lot of psychiatrists. … You could give an entire course in psychiatry [through] this case.” It had everything, he said – diagnoses that ranged from schizophrenia to bipolar disorder, anxiety issues, panic attacks, personality disorders, the taking of drugs and, oh yes, “the possibility of malingering.”

Dr. Chamberland will continue his evidence Wednesday, the last anticipated witness of the trial.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...murder-did-not-see-symptoms-of-schizophrenia/

 

[Rayemonde]

I'm still at a loss as to how LM was able to avoid any attempt at LE interrogation and to refuse any assessments by a prosecution psychiatrist. I'm stunned at the special treatment he received thanks to the demands of Dr. Barth and some kind of...what would you call it? Fear? On behalf of LE? Or who? Why did they send a military plane and a bunch of LE to pick LM up? Why the special treatment? Did they really think he was some kind of crazed Hannibal Lector?

Like I said, I didn't really follow the hunt or the capture but watching this trial unfold it all seems rather silly and over the top. Nothing scary at all about LM. He's just pathetic and didn't require any of that special treatment. But I'll bet he loved every minute of it and manipulated the situation in his favour. LE made a lot of mistakes with this guy. Lets hope the jury doesn't do the same. Nothing special about him at all. He's a manipulator and now a murderer. Time to stop coddling this guy and let him finally pay the consequences for his actions.

MOO

I think it's because of politics. The Germans didn't want to anger the Canadians by letting LM kill himself in custody or something like that. Everyone was just trying to cover their backs IMO. Plus there was such a lot of press attention, if anything had happened there would have been big trouble. Plus LM was probably doped up on psychiatric meds when he was extradited, and maybe the German authorities wanted someone there just in case of an adverse drug reaction. And they wouldn't t want LM kicking up a fuss afterwards and claiming his human rights had been abused.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

TRIAL CONTINUES - WEDNESDAY 26 NOVEMBER, 2014:

https://twitter.com/sleecjad

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

"SIMPLY FAKING PSYCHOTIC SYMPTOMS":

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...d-to-meet-with-crown-s-psychiatrist-1.2849623

 

[Kamille]

I'll be out most of today if anyone is available to post up the tweets.

 

[Rayemonde]

I can do some for a bit, but then I have to go and collect the dog from the vet.

Domenic Fazioli @DomenicFazioli · 13h 13 hours ago
Luka #Magnotta numbers:
Trial: 35 days
Week: 9
Crown: 52 witnesses
Defence: 12 witnesses
Jury: 8 women, 6 men
Courtroom: 501

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 6m 6 minutes ago
#Magnotta jury to come in soon. More testimony today from the Crown's psychiatrist, Dr. Gilles Chamberland. #cbcmtl

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 1m 1 minute ago
Chamberland begins to describe criteria for schizophrenia...and the defence asks to address something in the absence of the jury #Magnotta

Stephane Giroux @SGirouxCTV · 2m 2 minutes ago
Jury walks in and, immediately the defence demands to speak in their absence...Happens often actually. #Magnotta

Stephane Giroux @SGirouxCTV · 58s 58 seconds ago
Dr Chamberland was about to explain the definition of schizophrenia, according to the DSM-5, the reference manual in psychiatry #Magnotta

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 3m 3 minutes ago
And here we are again on DAY 35 of #Magnotta. Jury came in and now going out cause Leclair wants to raise legal issue.

Stephane Giroux @SGirouxCTV · 2m 2 minutes ago
Dr Chamberland was about to explain the definition of schizophrenia, according to the DSM-5, the reference manual in psychiatry #Magnotta

 

[Rayemonde]

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 20s 20 seconds ago
OK, we’re back in #Magnotta. Crown’s expert psychiatrist is explaining schizophrenia according to DSM, psychi Bible

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 3m 3 minutes ago
#Magnotta jury back. Chamberland goes through mental health guidebook, and criteria necessary for diagnosis of schizophrenia.

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 3m 3 minutes ago
There’s a baby gurgling in the overflow room in #Magnotta

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 2m 2 minutes ago
#Magnotta didn’t function well in school, Chamberland said.

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 1m 1 minute ago
Often patient can respond well to medication, he says #Magnotta

François Messier@MessierSRC 3m
For the diagnosis of schizophrenia, we must be sure the smptoms are not attributable to the consumption of drugs
Pour diagnostiquer schizophrénie, il faut s'assurer que symptômes ne sont pas attribuables à consommation de drogues -Chamberland #Magnotta

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 1m 1 minute ago
Chamberland calls attention to criteria/symptoms needed to diagnose schizophrenia. He says doctors have to eliminate drug use as factor.

christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins
The psychiatrist Chamberland think that the behavior is due to #Magnotta taking substances , more than schizophrenia.
Le psychiatre Chamberland pense que le comportement de #Magnotta est attribuable à prise de substances, plus que par schizophrénie.

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV 2m2 minutes ago
Chamberland describes the symptoms of schizophrenia to the jury.

Isabelle Richer ‏@IsabelleRicher
according to "the literature" one must have at least two of 6 symptoms to be diagnosed with schizophrenia
Selon la "littérature" il faut présenter au moins 2 des 6 symptômes répertoriés pour un diagnostic de schizophrénie #Magnotta

Isabelle Richer ‏@IsabelleRicher 2m2 minutes ago
Dr Chamberland contends that Magnotta does not meet the criteria
Dr Chamberland soutient que #Magnotta ne répond pas aux critères

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV 3m3 minutes ago
#Magnotta's symptoms could be provoked by drug use, rather than schizophrenia, Chamberland explains

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 5m 5 minutes ago
Patients will respond to questions but in a way that makes sense to their own little world, he says. Ask what they ate, respond 48. no sense

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue 2m2 minutes ago
Patients don’t get a lot of pleasure out of doing things or the memory of having done things, Chamberland says #Magnotta

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV 28s28 seconds ago
A minority of people can recover from schizophrenia. Majority will be permanently affected #Magnotta

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC
Chamberland explains changes in schizophrenia . Most patients will stay with "debilitating symptoms" #Magnotta
Chamberland explique l'évolution de la schizophrénie. Plupart des malades vont rester avec des "symptômes handicapants" #Magnotta

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 3m 3 minutes ago
On disorganized speech, Chamberland says anxiety can cause this but for schizophrenia diagnosis, has to be severe.Virtually incomprehensible

christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins 54s54 seconds ago
Chamberland spoke to the father of Magnotta, whose schizophrenia is controlled with medication. But he is anxious anyway.
Le Dr Chamberland parle du père de #Magnotta, dont la schizophrénie est contrôlée par médicaments. Mais il est anxieux quand même.

 

[Rayemonde]

christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins 3m3 minutes ago
Attenuated expression of emotions, Chamberland noted about the father of Magnotta
Expression des émotions atténuée, a remarqué Dr Chamberland au sujet du père de #Magnotta.

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 3m3 minutes ago
Chamberland revisits the testimony of the father of magnotta. He showed the negative symptoms of the illness - short answers, little emotion.
Chamberland revient sur témoignage du père de #Magnotta. On y voyait les symptômes négatifs de la maladie: réponses courtes, peu d'émotions

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM 4m4 minutes ago
He takes the example of the father of #Magnotta , taking many medications to control his schizophrenia .
Il prend en exemple le père de #Magnotta, qui prend de nombreux médicaments pour contrôler sa schizophrénie.

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 1m1 minute ago
Chamberland talks of #Magnotta father, who testified for defence. Says clear his medication working, but you see effects of schizophrenia

christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins 4m4 minutes ago
We bcp info about history #Magnotta says Dr. Chamberland . He cites example from the psych report of Dr. Allard to 2007.
On a bcp infos sur histoire de #Magnotta, dit Dr Chamberland. Il cite exemple tiré du rapport psych de Dr Allard, pour année 2007.

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM 1m1 minute ago
Magnotta has auditioned for a reality tv show. Defence objects. Without jury.
#Magnotta avait auditionné pour une téléréalité. Objection de la défense. Hors-jury.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue 58s59 seconds ago
Leclair has an objection. Jury heading out #Magnotta

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV 2m2 minutes ago
Chamberland was about to play a video of #Magnotta auditioning for a reality TV show, but defence raised an objection. Jury out. Again.

Isabelle Richer ‏@IsabelleRicher 2m2 minutes ago
In late 2007, his doctor described #Magnotta very incapacitating symptoms, but in early 2008, he auditioned for a reality show and seems good.
Fin 2007, #Magnotta décrit à son médecin des symptômes très incapacitants mais début 2008, il auditionne pour une téléréalité et semble bien

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 2m2 minutes ago
Before the suspension, Chamberland explained that in 2007 the Ontario #Magnotta psy considered the suffering , considered the hospital.
Avant suspension, Chamberland expliquait qu'en 2007, le psy ontarien de #Magnotta le considérait souffrant, considérait l'hospitaliser.

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 3m3 minutes ago

Defence objection came when he wanted to show the 2008 audition for the tv show
Objection de la défense est venue lorsqu'il a voulu présenter vidéo d'une audition passée par #Magnotta en 2008 pour émission de téléréalité

 

[Rayemonde]

I gotta run, can nanyone take over? x

 

[Rayemonde]

I'm back, and we haven't missed anything! The jury stayed out until lunch!

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 2h 2 hours ago
Defence has an objection, so #Magnotta jury out of room again.

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 1h 1 hour ago
#Magnotta trial still in legal discussions without the jury. This could take awhile.

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 31m 31 minutes ago
#Magnotta trial breaks for lunch after a long legal discussion without the jury. Back at 2pm.

 

[Rayemonde]

Right, here's what the court have been arguing about this morning - from my timeline thread:

August 21st 2007 - LM sees his psychiatrist Dr. Sooriabalan. LM says he is not sleeping. Says people are spreading rumours that he is dating Karla Homolka. The Dr. writes that LM is no longer receiving any disability allowance. Adjusts his dosage of medications. Note: After his arrest, LM eventually admitted that he started the rumours about Homolka himself.

September 2007 - LM is filmed by the Toronto Sun denying rumours that he is dating Karla Homolka.
View the video here:
Luka Magnotta gives interview about Karla Homolka Rumours

September 21st 2007 - files a police report saying he was being harassed. Said he was a gay sex worker who advertised in several magazines and online sites, and that he recieved a death threat. The police wrote “He said he was the victim of a recent newspaper article that mentioned he had a liaison with Karla Homolka. He said he’d received several emails since that story was published asking him how to contact her.”

October 18th 2007 - LM tells his psychiatrist that he has been making *advertiser censored* movies. Magnotta also told Sooriabalan, “Everyone is talking about me … I am being investigated.” He showed the doctor a newspaper clipping from the Toronto Sun - the story is LM saying that the rumours that he is dating Homolka are not true.
The doctor wants to hospitalise LM but he refuses.
“Patient doesn’t think it is his own delusional thought … doesn’t want to be admitted,” Sooriabalan wrote.

February 2008 - LM is filmed auditioning for "Plastic Makes Perfect", hoping to win further hair transplants.
Watch the video here - this is the video that LM's lawyer is trying to prevent the jury from seeing:
Luka Magnotta on 'Plastic Makes Perfect'

 

[BorgQueen]

He is slightly awkward, but there is nothing "wrong" with the way he is speaking. He comes off as incredibly vain, but otherwise "normal".

 

[Rayemonde]

DSM-IV-TR: Diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia:

A. Characteristic symptoms: Two (or more) of the following, each present for a significant portion of time during a 1-month period (or less if successfully treated):

(1) delusions
(2) hallucinations
(3) disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence
(4) grossly disorganized or catatonic behaviour
(5)negative symptoms, i.e., affective flattening, alogia (poverty of speech), or avolition (lack of motivation)
Note: Only one Criterion A symptom is required if delusions are bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running commentary on the person's behavior or thoughts, or two or more voices conversing with each other.

B. Social/occupational dysfunction: For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, one or more major areas of functioning such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care are markedly below the level achieved prior to the onset (or when the onset is in childhood or adolescence, failure to achieve expected level of interpersonal, academic, or occupational achievement).
C. Duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least 6 months. This 6-month period must include at least 1 month of symptoms (or less if successfully treated) that meet Criterion A (i.e., active-phase symptoms) and may include periods of prodromal (symptomatic of the onset) or residual symptoms. During these prodromal or residual periods, the signs of the disturbance may be manifested by only negative symptoms or two or more symptoms listed in Criterion A present in an attenuated form (e.g., odd beliefs, unusual perceptual experiences).

Subtypes of schizophrenia:
1. 1. Paranoid Type A type of Schizophrenia in which the following criteria are met:

A. Preoccupation with one or more delusions or frequent auditory hallucinations.
B. None of the following is prominent: disorganized speech, disorganized or catatonic behavior, or flat or inappropriate affect.