Luka Magotta AKA Eric Newman Trial, Week Nov 20, 2014 - Trial Thread #4

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Domenic Fazioli ‏@DomenicFazioli 19m19 minutes ago
Crown asks Dr Joel Paris if he thought Luka #Magnotta was schizophrenic. "No". He thinks LM suffers from borderline personality disorder
 
Kamille said:
He only told Dr. Paris about one that I'm aware of. Paxil?

MOO
Click to expand...

Ah, I think you're right, I just reread and it sounds like he told the doc he was taking Paxil (an antidepressant not an antipsychotic btw) and he had been taking 2 antipsychotics in the past but was no longer taking them.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 4m4 minutes ago
Was taking two antipsychotics and sleeping pill #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
Witness says #Magnotta told him about taking two anti-psychotic meds and sleeping pill.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Witness says #Magnotta told him about taking anti-depressant.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Witness says #Magnotta was on anti depressant at the time, and for some time before that.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 4m4 minutes ago
#Magnotta told Paris he was currently on Paxil, an anti-depressant

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 4m4 minutes ago
#Magnotta also told Paris his original diagnosis was amended later to bipolar disorder. Said he didn't need antipsychotic medication.
 
Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 9m9 minutes ago
Break over. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 8m8 minutes ago
#Magnotta is keeping his head down for the testimony of Dr. Joel Paris who is resuming his testimony.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 7m7 minutes ago
Jury returns. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 6m6 minutes ago
Crown: if #Magnotta suffered from schizophrenia would you have found out?

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 4m 4 minutes ago
Witness says not certain. Possible to determine in 1 hr consultation. But possibe patient can hide symptoms. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 5m 5 minutes ago
And defence asking to address issue out of jury presence. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
Crown is done with Dr. Joel Paris. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Jury is back. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 38s38 seconds ago
Defence resumes cross examination of Dr. Joel Paris. #Magnotta
 
Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 12m12 minutes ago
From NY? Correct. Defence refers to conversation it had with witness. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 12m12 minutes ago
What remember of conversation? If I had testimony helpful to trial. Don't know if report was correct, conclusive. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 11m11 minutes ago
I remember I didn't want to be called as witness, he says. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 12m12 minutes ago
Made a comment in reference to career? #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 11m11 minutes ago
Witness says mentioned he would have liked not to appear as expert witness as he wraps up his career. #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 11m11 minutes ago
#Magnotta defence lawyer talks of chat he had with Dr. Paris. Do you recall saying this was probably the biggest mistake of your career?

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 10m10 minutes ago
Remember saying it was the biggest mistake of your career? No, witness says. #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 10m10 minutes ago
Witness says he doesn't remember saying that, but did express wish to not testify. Has never testified in court before. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 10m10 minutes ago
Resident psychiatrist who was part of assessment actually met with #Magnotta first? I came in a few minutes later, witness says.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 9m9 minutes ago
Defence says resident psych did 1st 20-30 min with #Magnotta. Witness says possible missed 1st 10 min,not 20.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 9m9 minutes ago
Deence suggests 2nd yr resident psych got witness after her consultation and then they asked questions together. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 8m8 minutes ago
Witness says asked most of the questions with his resident psych.#Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 8m8 minutes ago
Witness says brought in #Magnotta after consultation and presented recommendations after he and resident conferred.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Defence insists on fact that witness had no collateral info to back up evaluation.Shows him past med reports. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Witness points to note about paranoid schizophrenia and personality disorder, trying to figure out which one. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Not unusual at beginning to have different diagnoses? No, witness says. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Another report, 2002, Scarborough. Witness says it only considerend schizophrenia but not as well documented as other reports. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Another report, Harrison House group home in Peterborough. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
You didn't have that? That's right, witness says. Habitat Services report. Didn't have that either? No. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Witness says can only comment on his consultation with #Magnotta.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
What's strange about your report, you refer #Magnotta back to CLSC doctor...Crown objects. Judge overrules.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Defence also mentioned that witness did not have access to report of psych in Berlin,which witness agreed was correct. #Magnotta
 
Rayemonde said:
What was his purpose in going to London, though? I'm sure that the cat videos weren't filmed there. Did he go to London just to upload them and make people think they were filmed there?
Click to expand...

Just saw this. He had a VPN. He likely could have chosen to upload them from a London IP address? Don't think he had to go to London to do this. He didn't stay in a very nice hotel did he? And he didn't pay right? Isn't that the reason why he was kicked out? Not because the reporter had gotten in there. Was a story ever written on him from that encounter?

They found him because of décor in the room didn't they? How did they do this? What was uploaded that someone recognized the décor?

I found it interesting that this London incident is the only thing he mentions to this new doctor. No Manny, no Miami...just the London trip. Why?

MOO
 
Kamille said:
Just saw this. He had a VPN. He likely could have chosen to upload them from a London IP address? Don't think he had to go to London to do this. He didn't stay in a very nice hotel did he? And he didn't pay right? Isn't that the reason why he was kicked out? Not because the reporter had gotten in there. Was a story ever written on him from that encounter?

They found him because of décor in the room didn't they? How did they do this? What was uploaded that someone recognized the décor?

I found it interesting that this London incident is the only thing he mentions to this new doctor. No Manny, no Miami...just the London trip. Why?

MOO
Click to expand...

No, IIRC someone gave the newspaper a tip-off about where he was staying (the newspaper thinks LM himself was behind this). I'm sure it wasn't filmed in London.
 
Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 6m6 minutes ago
#Magnotta referred back to referring doctor, defence says. Clinic report says accused has bipolar disorder, taking meds for 2 months.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 6m6 minutes ago
So you were referring #Magnotta back to clinic for med followup? Normal procedure, witness says.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Mt Sinai report. #Magnotta didn't know how he got to Miami. Defence wants to make witness aware of it.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Rouge Valley report.Hospitalization #Magnotta might have mentioned is included in this book, defence says. Didn't have it? No, witness says.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Just remember I didn't call you here, the crown called you, the defence says. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
You said it was a complicated and difficult case, why say that? #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
I was told he was treated at different places and different diagnoses. Drugs may have been factor. May go back to childhood. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Witness says #Magnotta lived in different places, no fixed address. So it was a challenge.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Should have caused you concern #Magnotta was hospitalized four times? And get the records?

Brigitte Noël ‏@Brige_Noel · 1m1 minute ago
Leclair showing Paris variety of other psych reports from #Magnotta's past. Paris says he had not seen those documents.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness says usually they follow up with more detailed specialized consultation, send back to referral doctor in meantime. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness says don't take for granted diagnosis of schizophrenia esp when didn't present symptoms at time. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Thought process mostly logical, what mean?He was quite anxious, moments he got off topic,we had to ask questions to get him back. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 36s36 seconds ago
Thought disorganization symptom of schizophrenia? Yes but part of much broader diagnosis. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
What tell you #Magnotta dad is schizophrenic? Risk is there but chance you don't develop same disorder as father.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 5m5 minutes ago
Having schizophrenic father increases chances of inheriting 1-5 percent, Paris says. Leclair says it's closer to 10 percent #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
Defence says witness didn't look for schizophrenia. Witness says that's his opinion. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 5m5 minutes ago
Paris didn't even consider schizophrenia, Leclair charges #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 5m5 minutes ago
#Magnotta defence suggests Paris did not do a test for schizophrenia, that he "offhand dismissed it". Paris repeats he saw no symptoms.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 5m5 minutes ago
#Magnotta went off on tangents as docs questioned him and he became more anxious but that wasn't sign of schizophrenia Paris says

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
Witness says #Magnotta was anxious as they pressed with questions but says not a symptom of schizophrenia.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Defence shows witness list of symptoms of schizophrenia, ie delusions, disorganized speech, frequent derailment of thoughts. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Witness says he remembers interviews rather vividly. No time he had disorganized speech. #Magnotta

Domenic Fazioli ‏@DomenicFazioli · 4m4 minutes ago
#Magnotta's lawyer Luc Leclair grilling Dr Joel Paris about his report. Suggesting he should not have dismissed schizophrenia for Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
You have bias towards borderline personality disorder which you are known for, defence suggests. #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 3m3 minutes ago
#Magnotta defence lawyer suggests Paris has a bias towards borderline personality disorder because it's his specialty.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Going over symptoms of borderline personality disorder. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Frantic efforts to avoid abandonment and unstable relationships fit the criteria, witness says. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness says #Magnotta had many different relationships over time.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Witness says #Magnotta was very promiscuous.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness reads out part about #Magnotta having 3 serious romantic relationships, 1 1/2 yrs with man ended in 2010. Unstable? defence asks.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 50s51 seconds ago
Witness says the pattern overall in lifetime is unstable. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 48s48 seconds ago
Witness says would have needed another hour to talk about those relationships. #Magnotta
 
This 11/2 year relationship with a man that ended in 2010. Is LM referring to the man in his 70's from Toronto that took him travelling?

Or was he travelling with a 70yr old man during this "stable" relationship? What a load of BS. Too bad the Crown can't seem to put stuff like this together on the fly.

(For Jodi Arias watchers, Juan would make mincemeat out of all this testimony with his cross references and quick mind ;) )

MOO
 
Rayemonde said:
No, IIRC someone gave the newspaper a tip-off about where he was staying (the newspaper thinks LM himself was behind this). I'm sure it wasn't filmed in London.
Click to expand...

So he went to London to purposely get into the news and issue his denial about the videos and tipped off the press about where he was staying. But they ambushed him in his track pants instead of setting up a proper interview in his "ready for my closeup Mr DeMille" new clothes which pissed him off. And then they never did a story at all? Which prompted the email 2 days later? Threatening for a bigger and better video with humans? And they still didn't do a story? Which is like a personal affront to someone like LM. After he went to all the trouble of flying to London and all. So he came back to Montreal and started planning for that video?

MOO
 
Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 7m7 minutes ago
Defence shows article witness wrote about why psychs hesitant to diagnose borderline personality disorder. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 6m6 minutes ago
Self cutting in #Magnotta story? Witness says he did it in teen years.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 6m6 minutes ago
Defence reads out cases of women who scored high on evaluations of borderline personality disorder. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
Defence reads out case of man with mood instability and unstable relationships, heard voices when stressed but knew imaginary. #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 5m5 minutes ago
#Magnotta defence lawyer produces article Paris wrote entitled: Why psychiatrists are reluctant to diagnose borderline personality disorder

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
Did #Magnotta go thorough similar test? No witness says, would have if sent to borderline personality clinic.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
That should be borderline personality disorder clinic. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
So tentative diagnosis? Witness says yes, in those circumstances. #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 5m5 minutes ago
Defence: Do you agree your diagnosis of #Magnotta was a tentative one? Witness: All diagnoses after 1 visit tend to be tentative.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Defence suggests if suffer from schizophrenia, therapy is useful but would need meds? #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Primary treatment for schizophrenia is medication, witness says. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Witness says #Magnotta told him he had stopped taking meds. Don't know for how long.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
So if you had more time, you would have done test for borderline personality disorder? Yes. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
So you did not explore micro psychotic episodes/symptoms? Contradiction, witness says. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
We did ask him about paranoid ideas but not being cut off from reality, witness says. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Micro psychotic episode: brief cut off from reality. Transient thing, witness says. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 22s23 seconds ago
Paris said he didn't expect the case would end up in court at the time he wrote his report on #Magnotta
 
Notice the difference on a non paid defence witness doctor? He's answering honestly. No "I don't know, I didn't ask" answers coming from this professional. Feel sorry for him though. He didn't want to ever testify in court. Another LM victim. I'm sure he has an opinion on the paid "experts" that went before him. ;)

MOO
 
The court hasn't heard anything about the 70 year old man though, it was just that newspaper that published an article saying they'd spoken to a 70 year old man who travelled Europe with LM.
 
Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
Know Dr. Chamberland? Just met him today. Discuss report? Discussed personality disorder. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
When found out about schizophrenia/psychiatric history, consult Cnd Med Protections Association? No. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
Witness says didn't see the need. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
One of the most unusual cases in my career, witness says. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 4m4 minutes ago
This is one of most unusual cases I've seen in a lifetime of psychiatry, Paris says #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Defence done. Witness done. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 4m4 minutes ago
That's the end of Paris testimony. Lunch break - back at 2:15 #Magnotta
 
Well one thing is for sure. All of the doctors who have dealt with LM are stumped. Most unusual case in all their years of working with mental illnesses.

Which is probably what happens when you've got a mentally ill liar who lies. You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped and continually lies for "secondary gain" IMO. Since the entire field is based on self reporting symptoms, how can you know when a histrionic drama queen is having a legit "episode" and is not just screaming for attention or malingering?

You can't. And he's been working it a long time and will continue to do so if he's found NCR and sent to a psychiatric facility. Give him meds for schizophrenia and put him in solitary in prison for life...where he belongs.

MOO
 
Rayemonde said:
The court hasn't heard anything about the 70 year old man though, it was just that newspaper that published an article saying they'd spoken to a 70 year old man who travelled Europe with LM.
Click to expand...

True...he might have been looking for his 15 minutes. And I can't see the Crown being able to have any of these witnesses in the trial because that would open up a whole can of worms as to what he was doing during the years in question and whether any of those witnesses had any credibility. Looks like they didn't want to bother. Or they lost the argument. Either way it's a shame. This jury, whichever way they go, will probably never know the whole story of LM.

MOO
 
I assume the 70 year old man paid LM to accompany him. A client rather than a boyfriend.
 
You think the Prosecution will call an expert forensic psychiatrist next? Should be interesting! Or maybe they've even tracked down some of LM's old psychiatrists!
 
Kamille said:
So he went to London to purposely get into the news and issue his denial about the videos and tipped off the press about where he was staying. But they ambushed him in his track pants instead of setting up a proper interview in his "ready for my closeup Mr DeMille" new clothes which pissed him off.
Click to expand...

:floorlaugh:
 
Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 12m12 minutes ago
Lunch break over. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 8m8 minutes ago
5 min break for legal issues. #Magnotta
 
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