Luka Magotta AKA Eric Newman Trial, Week Nov 20, 2014 - Trial Thread #4

[Kamille]

He probably was being "robbed" by other patients. Those places are notorious for things going missing aren't they? I know it's very bad in lock down wings of homes for patients with Alzheimers and other dementia. Not that schizophrenia is dementia but I'd imagine there were people with other forms of mental illness there as well?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 2m2 minutes ago
Me Leclair note qu'une résidence comme Harrison House est un dernier recours. On n'y habite pas par choix, mais quand problème #Magnotta

Translation: Mr. Leclair notes that residences such as Harrison House are a last resort . No one lives there by choice, but when they have a problem #Magnotta

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM · 1m1 minute ago
Au début de l'âge adulte, #Magnotta avait été mis dans foyer pour schizophrène. "On ne les amènent pas là pour des pb de drogue, dit défense

Translation: In early adulthood, #Magnotta had been placed in homes for schizophrenic. " They were not there to bring drugs, says defense

christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins · 20s20 seconds ago
#Magnotta. Pas évident de tweeter ce pm. Bcp de petits bouts ici et là. En gros, défense veut montrer que client était schizo ds sa jeunesse

Translation: #Magnotta . Not easy to tweet this pm . Bcp little bits here and there. Basically, defense wants to show that client was schizo in his youth

 

[Kamille]

christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins · 9m9 minutes ago
#Magnotta prend un médicament qui fait prendre du poids, c'est un effet secondaire non désiré.

Translation: #Magnotta takes a drug that gaining weight is an unwanted side effect.

(And shouldn't that be a red flag that he never took any drugs before that caused this problem?)

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM · 3m3 minutes ago
On est encore à passer au travers des rapports médicaux. #Magnotta

Translation: We still go through medical reports. #Magnotta

 

[Kamille]

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM · 2m2 minutes ago
Fin de la journée, le contre-interrogatoire du Dr Chamberland continue demain. #Magnotta

Translation: End of the day, the cross examination of Dr. Chamberland continues tomorrow

 

[Kamille]

Looks like we've all had enough of this trial. So quiet in here. :giggle:

Time to just get on with the deliberations and wait for the verdict I guess? :jail:

 

[Rayemonde]

That's not good - Chamberland admitted he still hasn't read the medical notes properly!! It does indicate that he'd already made up his mind before he wrote his report.

Letters from LM in his medical records? I really wish we could see the records. He also got into trouble for writing a lot of letters to the Canadian FBI equivalent around the same time, iirc. Accusing them of spying on him and stuff.

And I really, really wish we could hear from some of LM's treating psychiatrists from the past!! It's very suspicious that the defence have not chosen to call any IMO. My guess is that they would say LM has schizophrenia (which is probably why the Crown hasn't called them either) but they would also say things harmful to the defence, eg he was a compulsive liar who exaggerated him symptoms. Also I'm pretty certain that they would express the opinion that schizophrenia had NOTHING to do with his crimes.
I wish the Crown hadn't chosen to argue so strongly that LM doesn't have schizophrenia and never has had a serious mental illness. That's not what the jury has to decide. All that matters is, was he CR? And even if he truly has suffered from paranoid delusions and heard voices for years, I still think it's clear that this had nothing to do with his crimes. Chamberland did touch upon this, but it seemed like an afterthought to his main argument (that LM does not have schizophrenia).

 

[Rayemonde]

Looks like we've all had enough of this trial. So quiet in here. :giggle:

Time to just get on with the deliberations and wait for the verdict I guess? :jail:

It has been an extremely exasperating trial, hasn't it!! From LeClair's random questions and making the court watch tons of CCTV footage that didn't even have LM on it, to the farcical 'expert' witnesses who seem to have no interest in justice at all.

No wonder the journalists are completely sick of it. Such a long, drawn-out trial for a crime that seems very cut-and-dry - LM advertised the video BEFORE he made it. That seems to have barely been mentioned but that's the.most important fact of all IMO.

 

[Fairy]

Looks like we've all had enough of this trial. So quiet in here. :giggle:

Time to just get on with the deliberations and wait for the verdict I guess? :jail:

I got a bit lost after I missed a few days when I was trying to do some Christmas shopping. Still attempting to catch up and follow along, but finding it hard to digest a lot of this psycho-analysis. Thank you for posting the tweets, helps so much in getting up to speed (especially since I have no idea who is tweeting this anymore!!).

 

[Tiger09]

Dude, I'm lost. I am totally lost. Correct me if I'm wrong. But this is what I've gathered (and thank you dearly to the twitter posters/translators! You deserve nutella on a bagel that doesn't make you fat

Crown witness doc didn't read medical notes, but watched a lot of LRM you tube vids. One in which he licked his own pic. The animal abuse stuff was introduced, despite the defense freaking out. Every witness doctor said basically that LRM's meds made him gain weight, and that he did not stay on them. One doc questioned him being schizophrenic, said he was bipolar. LRM eats his hair. Manny is an illusion. LRM posted ads to get raped on Craigslist. LRM's mother distanced herself from him. Personality disorder on the table, but crown witness says he wasn't having an episode at the time of the murder.

 

[Kamille]

Dude, I'm lost. I am totally lost. Correct me if I'm wrong. But this is what I've gathered (and thank you dearly to the twitter posters/translators! You deserve nutella on a bagel that doesn't make you fat

Crown witness doc didn't read medical notes, but watched a lot of LRM you tube vids. One in which he licked his own pic. The animal abuse stuff was introduced, despite the defense freaking out. Every witness doctor said basically that LRM's meds made him gain weight, and that he did not stay on them. One doc questioned him being schizophrenic, said he was bipolar. LRM eats his hair. Manny is an illusion. LRM posted ads to get raped on Craigslist. LRM's mother distanced herself from him. Personality disorder on the table, but crown witness says he wasn't having an episode at the time of the murder.

:floorlaugh:

You missed the part where LeClair compared LM to the character from the movie "A Beautiful Mind". So are we expecting LM to win a Nobel Peace Prize or an Oscar for his amazing cinematography and movie editing skillz? :scared:

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I got a bit lost after I missed a few days when I was trying to do some Christmas shopping. Still attempting to catch up and follow along, but finding it hard to digest a lot of this psycho-analysis. Thank you for posting the tweets, helps so much in getting up to speed (especially since I have no idea who is tweeting this anymore!!).

Not much to catch up on really. The defence thinks LM is NCR and the prosecution thinks he is. Not surprisingly their "experts" are following script. We're just waiting on final arguments at this point and the verdict.

Hopefully the jury has been able to wade through the muck to the few most important points of the testimony and is able to decide if a premeditated, planned out murder that was advertised days in advance, qualifies for a NCR verdict based on a spontaneous moment of psychosis at just the wrong time when LM is entertaining a man he picked up somehow and brought back to his apartment for an evening of wine, benedryl and Temazepam.

MOO

 

[maxfactor]

That claim, Dr. Chamberland said, is impossible to square with the detailed directions Mr. Magnotta indirectly provided to Montreal Police and which led them in July of 2012 to Mr. Lin’s head in a local park.

The severed head of the 33-year-old student from China was found in tall grass by one of several ponds in the park; the police were given explicit instructions (“walk left on the pathway,” “once you get to the bottom of the pond,” etc.) to locate it.

“This appears to be a very detailed memory,” Dr. Chamberland said, and at odds with Mr. Magnotta’s claim “he didn’t remember anything.”

The park isn’t close to Mr. Magnotta’s apartment, and Dr. Chamberland wondered aloud about how Mr. Magnotta may have paraded about the city, perhaps even travelling on the Metro, with Mr. Lin’s head in hand.

Dr. Chamberland suggested that perhaps Mr. Magnotta was planning to visit it again. “It looks like he disposed of the head in a manner so he could find it again, in the future,” he said.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...e-homicide-was-wrong-prosecution-expert-says/

 

[maxfactor]

At first I thought it was a bad thing that Dr Chamberland had given interviews about the case early on, but now I think it might not be so bad to see that from day one Personality disorders were so apparent to an expert. I remember early on a lot of us here thought the same thing and I do not believe for a minute that LM is schizophrenic. I have been in contact with schizophrenics fairly regularly in my life and they would never be able to do anything like this. In fact when they were having delusions or psychosis I could see it in their eyes and behaviour without them even speaking. I think his behaviour might have been out there when he was arrested because I am sure he thought he would never get caught and he was probably panicking trying to figure out how to get out of it. I really hope the jury can sort out the difference between personality disorders and schizophrenia, after all they have heard they could easily be very confused. I would NOT want to be in their shoes.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

TRIAL CONTINUES - WEDNESDAY 3 DECEMBER, 2014:

https://twitter.com/montgomerysue


:jail::jail::jail::jail::jail:

 

[Kamille]

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 56m56 minutes ago
#Magnotta trial is sitting today but is currently in the middle of a legal discussion in the absence of the jury.

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 51m51 minutes ago
Procès #Magnotta reprend avec jury. L'expert en psychiatrie légale de la Couronne, Gilles Chamberland, est contre-interrogé par la défense

Translation: #Magnotta Trial resumes with jury. The Crown expert in forensic psychiatry, Gilles Chamberland, is again crpss examined by the defense

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 52m52 minutes ago
#Magnotta trial resumes with jury. Defence continues cross-examination of Dr. Gilles Chamberland, Crown's expert psychiatrist.

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 45m45 minutes ago
Me Leclair interroge Chamberland sur sa préparation avant les entrevues qu'il a données dans les jours suivant le meurtre #Magnotta

Translation: LeClair asks Chamberland about his preparation for interviews given in the days following the murder

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 45m45 minutes ago
Chamberland répète qu'il se prononçait en fonction des infos qu'il avait. "Ça ne vaudra jamais d'avoir évalué la personne", dit-il #Magnotta

Translation: Chamberland repeats that he pronounced according to information he had. "It will never be as good as having assessed the person," he said #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 45m45 minutes ago
Defence suggests Chamberland did 2012 media interviews while police were searching for #Magnotta w/ little info, no time to prepare opinion.

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 44m44 minutes ago
Chamberland says he doesn't accept interviews if nothing to say. Has never gone on air after deciding opinion only 5 min before #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 43m43 minutes ago
Leclair wanted to have Chamberland as expert but the Crown had already reserved him #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 42m42 minutes ago
Court hears #Magnotta defence approached Dr. Chamberland to hire him for his psychiatric expertise, but the Crown had already reserved him.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 41m41 minutes ago
Chamberland is paid by the Crown, he confirms. I took the reports (re #magnotta) I formed an opinion and presented it here, he says

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 38m38 minutes ago
Defence back to yesterday's questions: why Chamberland didn't contact Drs who saw #Magnotta in past. Witness says that's not his role.

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 37m37 minutes ago
Chamberland repeats his job in this case is not to investigate, but to give his opinion on what defence psychiatrists concluded. #Magnotta

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM · 39m39 minutes ago
Par contre, le Dr Chamberland a parlé au Dr Paris, qui avait rejeté la schizophrénie, note la défense. #Magnotta

Translation: But Dr. Chamberland spoke to Dr. Paris , dismissing schizophrenia, notes the defense. #Magnotta

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM · 39m39 minutes ago
"Ça confirme l'opinion que j'avais, ça aurait pu l'infirmer", note le témoin. #Magnotta

Translation: It confirms the opinion I had , it could have been the opposite ," said the witness. #Magnotta

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 37m37 minutes ago
Me Leclair revient maintenant sur le dossier médical de #Magnotta à Rouge Valley (Ont.). L'accusé y a longtemps vu le Dr Sooriabalan

Translation: Mr. Leclair is now up on the medical records #Magnotta Rouge Valley( Ont.). The accused had seen Dr. Sooriabalan there for a long time

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 36m36 minutes ago
Le Dr Chamberland concède qu'au moins 5 psychiatres ontariens ont conclu à un diagnostic de schizophrénie pour #Magnotta

Translation: Dr. Chamberland concedes that at least 5 Ontario psychiatrists concluded with a diagnosis of schizophrenia #Magnotta

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM · 37m37 minutes ago
L'avocat de #Magnotta s'arrête en plein milieu d'une phrase. "Court's indulgence please", dit-il en plongeant dans les docs.

Translation: #Magnotta 's Lawyer stops in the middle of a sentence . "Court 's indulgence please", he said with a look in the docs

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 38m38 minutes ago
Leclair asking for morning break "to find something I cannot find." #Magnotta

 

[Kamille]

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 7m7 minutes ago
Procès #Magnotta a repris. La défense dit que le Dr Baer, évoqué avant la pause, est peut-être un généraliste plutôt qu'un psy.

Translation: #Magnotta trial resumes. The defense says Dr. Baer, ​​spoke about before the break may be a gp rather than a psychiatrist.

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 6m6 minutes ago
Chamberland interrogé sur le fait que #Magnotta a été hospitalisé deux fois, en mars 2003, à Rouge Valley.

Translation: Chamberland asked about the fact that #Magnotta was hospitalized twice in March 2003 at Rouge Valley

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 4m4 minutes ago
1ère hospitalisation: #Magnotta était accompagné d'un travailleur social. Donc, on considérait qu'il en avait besoin d'un, dit la défense

Translation: First hospitalization : #Magnotta was accompanied by a social worker. So they felt he needed one, said the defense

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 4m4 minutes ago
Travailleur social écrivait alors (mars 2003) qu'il était considéré très paranoïaque, qu'il entend des voix, souligne la défense #Magnotta

Translation: Social worker was wrote (March 2003) he was considered very paranoid, he hears voices , said the defense #Magnotta

(Isn't this around the time he was arrested for the fraud? Was this the first time he used "voices" as an excuse for criminal behaviour? And of course the Crown cannot bring that information into the trial :notgood

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 4m4 minutes ago
Le psy Sooriabalan a aussi noté que #Magnotta était "très effrayé et agité", acceptait volontairement d'être hospitalisé, dit la défense

Translation: The psychiatrist also noted that Sooriabalan wrote #Magnotta was "very frightened and agitated" voluntarily agreed to be hospitalized, said the defense

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 2m2 minutes ago
"Vous pensez que c'est le fun pour M. #Magnotta" d'être hospitalisé avec diagnostic de schizophrénie paranoïde. "Non" -Chamberland

Translation: You think it's fun for Mr. #Magnotta being hospitalized with diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. "No" -Chamberland

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 3m3 minutes ago
Chamberland ajoute que pour certains patients, c'est "rassurant" plutôt que traumatisant d'être hospitalisé. "Un moindre mal" #Magnotta

Translation: Chamberland added that for some patients , it is "reassuring" rather than traumatic to be hospitalized . "Lesser evil" #Magnotta

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 3m3 minutes ago
Chamberland dit que cette hospitalisation "semble avoir été un moment de récupération" pour #Magnotta

Translation: Chamberland said that this hospital "seems to have been a time of recovery" to #Magnotta

 

[Kamille]

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 4m4 minutes ago
La défense décrit des symptômes déclarés par #Magnotta lors de 2e hospitalisation, mars 2003. "On n'a pas de preuve de ça", note Chamberland

Translation: The defense describes symptoms reported by #Magnotta during the second hospitalization, March 2003. "We have no evidence of that," says Chamberland

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 2m2 minutes ago
Chamberland note que l'évolution des symptômes de #Magnotta à Rouge Valley est aussi compatible avec un sevrage

Translation: Chamberland noted that the evolution of symptoms #Magnotta at Rouge Valley is also compatible with withdrawal

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 35s35 seconds ago
Chamberland souligne aussi à nouveau que les gens qui ont un trouble de la personnalité limite peuvent faire des micropsychoses #Magnotta

Translation: Chamberland also reiterates that people who have borderline personality disorder can have micropsychoses #Magnotta

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 36s36 seconds ago
#Magnotta rapportait incidemment à Rouge Valley qu'il craignait que son cochambreur aille dire au personnel qu'il prenait du crack.

Translation: #Magnotta reported incidentally to Rouge Valley that he feared his roommate would tell the staff that he was taking crack.

(Is this roommate the one who was also charged with fraud? And wasn't this also the year he began stripping which evolved into the escort business? No doubt he was hanging with a drug crowd at that time. Or was his roommate the guy who became his pimp?)

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta niait prendre de la drogue. Mais Chamberland trouve "particulier" qu'il a dit craindre être accusé de prendre du crack

Translation: #Magnotta denied taking drugs. But Chamberland said it is odd that he fears being accused of taking crack

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 3m3 minutes ago
"Peut-être que M. #Magnotta fait de la prévention" en disant craindre d'être accusé de prendre du crack -Chamberland

Translation: Maybe Mr. #Magnotta made ​​prevention by saying he fears being accused of taking crack -Chamberland

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 3m3 minutes ago
La défense dit que la thèse de Chamberland se fonde sur une évaluation d'une heure, soit celle du Dr Paris (avril 2012) #Magnotta

Translation: The defense said that Chamberland's thesis is based on an hour evaluation of the report of Dr. Paris ( April 2012) #Magnotta

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 4m4 minutes ago
Chamberland répond que ce qui est illogique, c'est de se baser sur le temps où un nombre de pages rédigés #Magnotta

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 4m4 minutes ago
Chamberland répond que ce qui est illogique, c'est de se baser sur le temps où un nombre de pages rédigés #Magnotta

Translation: Chamberland replied that it is illogical to base the time a number of pages were written #Magnotta

 

[Kamille]

New sketch of LM...

 

[Kamille]

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 9m9 minutes ago
Dr Chamberland maintenant interrogé sur le rapport médical de #Magnotta à l'hôpital Mount Sinai, à Miami (janvier 2011).

Translation: Dr. Chamberland is now questioned about the #Magnotta medical report at Mount Sinai Hospital in Miami (January 2011)

 

[Kamille]

Reporters are pretty much tweeting that they've got other more important stories to deal with today (the Guy Turcotte story for one) and it appears that the repetition of LM's hospital records has taken a back seat.

The Guy Turcotte story is an interesting read. Cardiologist who was found NCR for stabbing his two children to death has been ordered to stand trial again for murder. He only spent 46 months in Pinel Psychiatric Institute before he was released. Today's decision was to allow him to remain out on bail pending the new trial. It's interesting that this "farce" of a NCR decision is being challenged at the same time as LM is trying to obtain one. I wonder if any of the jury members are familiar with the Turcotte case?

MOO