GUILTY MA - Colleen Ritzer, 24, brutally murdered, Danvers, 22 Oct 2013 #2

Assist1

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14 Year old reported missing yesterday was located. He is in custody and will be charged with murder of a 24 year old teacher Colleen Rizner. Rizner was found in the woods behind the high school.

Police/DA cannot release the suspects name due to State law but did confirm the "Missing Teen" was connected to the homicide investigation and had been located.
https://www.facebook.com/colleen.ritzer589?fref=ts

http://www.wcvb.com/news/local/bost...m=facebook&utm_campaign=wcvb+channel+5+boston

https://www.facebook.com/DanversPolice

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/23...-schools-closed-wednesday-due-to-police-probe

https://twitter.com/msritzermath

Thread #1

Please continue discussion here at thread 2

Philip Chism, 16 is on trial for the murder of teacher Colleen Ritzer

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jacct

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Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
Holleran: Identifying picture of Colleen Ritzer's body uncovered in woods, with the stick found.

Victoria WarrenVerified account ‏@vwarrenon7 2m2 minutes ago
This testimony has both mother's (Colleen's and Philip's) holding their heads. #PhilipChism remains emotionless, head down.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
Gallery gets even quieter and stiller, as the photo of Ritzer's dead body is shown to witness. Lots of tension.

Laura Crimaldi ‏@lauracrimaldi 2m2 minutes ago
Holleran IDs picture of Colleen Ritzer's body after it was uncovered in woods. Prosecution wants to publish photo on projector

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
These pictures of Colleen Ritzers body will be passed among the jurors

Laura Crimaldi ‏@lauracrimaldi 2m2 minutes ago
Judge Lowy tells jury sometimes evidence can "illicit an emotional response." Asks them to be disciplined

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 2m2 minutes ago
Lowy: if any juror wants to recess, let me know. picture being shown to jurors now.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 43s44 seconds ago
The picture is in a manilla folder. Each juror is opoening the folder, looking, passing it down. One just grimaced.
 

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Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 46s46 seconds ago
Meanwhile the lawyers are at sidebar

Laura Crimaldi ‏@lauracrimaldi 1m1 minute ago
Jury takes morning recess. They return at 11:05 am
 

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Laura Crimaldi ‏@lauracrimaldi 2m2 minutes ago
Jurors are back in courtroom for #PhilipChism trial. Lawyers are at sidebar.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 1m1 minute ago
Now Osler with cross of State Police Lt. Holleran.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Osler asking about area around where Ritzer body found

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
On screen is a crime scene photo that shows leafy area of woods with black and yellow backpack on ground

Laura Crimaldi ‏@lauracrimaldi 57s57 seconds ago
Hollernan says the backpack contained #PhilipChism's school papers. He IDs identification belonging to Chism.

Laura Crimaldi ‏@lauracrimaldi 1m1 minute ago
Holleran estimates #PhilipChism's backpack was found 10 ft. from Colleen Ritzer's body. His testimony is done. Next up is Trp. Michael Perry

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
Osler is done with Holleran. Defense, again, is trying to show irrationality of crime. Why leave ID 10 feet from body?

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 3m3 minutes ago
Judge Lowy tells jurors trial is "fairly well ahead of schedule."

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 4m4 minutes ago
Next: Trooper Michael Perry of crime scene services section. Responded to scene with Holleran night of murder.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
He responded to DHS for murder probe, assigned to help Crump. Perry did video

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
Took video in the dark in the woods

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
Assisted Holleran in uncovering Ritzer. Slowly removed debris from the body. He stood near her feet, was bent over

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 3m3 minutes ago Beverly, MA
#PhilipChism prosecutors are having Perry detail again, very graphically, the condition of Ritzer's body.
 

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Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 4m4 minutes ago
"there was a stick coming out of the leaves. I attempted to remove the stick from between her legs." Stick was in vaginal area

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
Perry told Holleran he felt resistance moving the stick

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
Perry handed an evidence bag by ADA. It's the bag they placed stick in. Perry takes stick out of bag

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 3m3 minutes ago Beverly, MA
#PhilipChism prosector is having Perry confirm and hold up for jury a stick found in Ritzer's body.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
Stick is about three feet long

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
ADA puts stick bag in bag. No cross by defense. Perry leaves stand. Next up Trooper James Crump

Laura Crimaldi ‏@lauracrimaldi 2m2 minutes ago
Trooper James Crump is now on witness stand. The recycling barrel has been wheeled backed into the courtroom.

Laura Crimaldi ‏@lauracrimaldi 2m2 minutes ago
Crump is assigned to crime scenes services section of @MassStatePolice. He is trained in fingerprint collection and analysis.

Laura Crimaldi ‏@lauracrimaldi 1m1 minute ago
Judge Lowy calls a sidebar with lawyers
 

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Laura Crimaldi ‏@lauracrimaldi 52s52 seconds ago
Sidebar over. Crump describes taking photographs at Danvers High on Oct. 23, 2013

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 39s40 seconds ago
Crump took into evidence items that didn't have any biological material -- like the note near RItzer's body

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 44s45 seconds ago
The note says "I hate you all" in blue pen

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 54s55 seconds ago
The note is entered into evidence. It was first folded and face down (writing down) but prosecutor shows it straight up.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Crump now looking at #PhilipChism Danvers High school ID which was also found #PhilipChism

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
Also entering into evidence school ID on black lanyard, with thumb drive. Placed on projector.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 51s52 seconds ago
Trooper Crump was asked to test for fingerprints as part of his job. The bin was tested for prints.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 55s56 seconds ago
Crump looking directly at jury pool as he explains fingerprinting processing

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 52s53 seconds ago
Trooper used a typical method for identifying prints - Superglue fumes. But he had to create a large test chamber first.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 52s52 seconds ago
Four prints were developed but one was extremely clear says trooper. He's now showing jurors where print found.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Crump now showing jurors how he found fingerprints on the bin, along the top, consistent with someone opening bin
 

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Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
The trooper took a photo of the print so he could enlarge it and better see the pattern.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
A blow up of a fingerprint found on recycling bin is up on projection screen

Laura Crimaldi ‏@lauracrimaldi 1m1 minute ago
MacDougall calls for a sidebar.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 35s36 seconds ago
Added fingerprint to Mass. database that includes fingerprints of all known criminals. #PhilipChism came up. In there bc of arrest.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 39s39 seconds ago
Print matched in #PhilipChism because he was arrested in Danvers on 10/23/13. It was his right middle finger

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 44s44 seconds ago
Crump IDs an inked impression of #PhilipChism middle finger

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 56s57 seconds ago
Big black and white fingerprint now up on #PhilipChism projection screen

Laura Crimaldi ‏@lauracrimaldi 1m1 minute ago
Jury is looking side by side of a fingerprint taken from recycling barrel and a fingerprint taken of #PhilipChism when he was arrested.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 47s47 seconds ago
Crump also examined branch removed from Ritzer body
 

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Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
Prosecutor asks about the stick Perry found. Crump explains whether the stick would tested for prints or forensic evidence.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Crump talking about good surfaces to find fingerprints. Glass window is good, carpeting is bad

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
How an object is handled can also effect fingerprints. Environment too. "fingerprints are very fragile," Crump said

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 56s56 seconds ago
They decided not to test the stick for fingerprints. More likely to get biological evidence from the stick than fingerprint.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Crump also processed the box cutter #PhilipChism was found with

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
Quick cross from Osler. #PhilipChism was in fingerprint database only bc of his arrest in this case? Yes. Nothing else in database? No.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago Defense stresses the only reason #PhilipChism prints in database were due to his arrest the day of the murder. That's only question.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
Danvers police Detective Robert Sullivan is taking the stand.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 27s27 seconds ago
He worked with Baldassare on video. Jurors about to see more footage.
 

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Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 50s51 seconds ago
Video clip of Danvers High being shown. Shows Ritzer coming up a stairwell shortly b4 7 am that morning

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Next clip shows Ritzer going into her classroom. Another shows #PhilipChism arriving at school, walking in hallway.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 58s58 seconds ago
Another vantage shows #PhilipChism walking down hallway. He's in blue jeans and red shirt. He's wearing a back pack & carrying 2 other bags

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 59s59 seconds ago Salem, MA
Now seeing video of #PhilipChism walking in crowded hallway outside Ritzer's classroom.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 1m1 minute ago
New video at 1p right before last period that day (math class) #PhilipChism goes to locker, spends about 1 min there.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Another video clip shows #PhilipChism entering Ritzer class for math. He's wearing a back pack and carrying a red draw string type backpack too

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
The video of Ritzer leaving her classroom and a hooded #PhilipChism following her is shown to jurors again

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 57s58 seconds ago Beverly, MA
Now again seeing video of #PhilipChism following Ritzer into bathroom, hood up, putting on gloves.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 1m1 minute ago
He arrives for class in a red sweatshirt. But when he leaves the room he's wearing a blue hoodie.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
11 mins elapses b4 another student tries to enter bathroom, triggering camera

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
#PhilipChism is watching the videos, looking straight to at courtroom projection screen

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 1m1 minute ago Salem, MA
Again, we're seeing video of #PhilipChism leave the bathroom, hood up, walk away hurriedly, then down stairs.
 

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Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
Jurors are again shown video of #PhilipChism coming om down a stairway. His right hand looks bloody

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 1m1 minute ago Salem, MA
Seeing for the first time video of #PhilipChism running outside in white tshirt, continues to jog back inside, up stairs.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
He reenters Ritzer's classroom, grabs his stuff, and walks down the hall.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
#PhilipChism is watching all this, but his mother isn't.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
New clip shows #PhilipChism in just jeans and white tshirt entering recycling barrel area

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
No video available in recycling bin area Sullivan says

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Another video clip shows #PhilipChism with red sweatshirt over his head, heading down a stairwell

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 1m1 minute ago Salem, MA
#PhilipChism comes back, wearing red sweatshirt, running, and that's when he sees soccer friend who was supposed to be meeting him outside.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 1m1 minute ago
Now we see the clip with his soccer friend. Running away from him. #PhilipChism goes down stairwell 1, where the recycling bins are.

Todd Kazakiewich ‏@ToddKazakiewich 56s56 seconds ago
#PhilipChism jury now seeing #PhilipChism pulling recycling bin into bathroom where he killed Colleen Ritzer

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 50s50 seconds ago Salem, MA
Video shows #PhilipChism rolling recycling bin into bathroom. 6 min pass, he comes out wearing mask, struggling with bin.
 

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Todd Kazakiewich ‏@ToddKazakiewich 3m3 minutes ago

Video shows #PhilipChism (wearing ski mask) pulling recycling bin w/ Colleen Ritzer's body, right past man w/ dog outside

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
#PhilipChism picked up on a field house camera clearly wheeling recycling bin in parking lot

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 2m2 minutes ago Salem, MA
#PhilipChism shown on video making his way casually back from woods, without recycling bin.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
#PhilipChism enters DHS again goes to the third floor

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Video shows him returning to his locker, then he goes to boys room on floor 3

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
He leaves boys room now in a black shirt

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
#PhilipChism exits third floor stairwell, he's got a white and blue Nike backpack on now

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 50s50 seconds ago
#PhilipChism goes back in second floor girls room

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Video shows #PhilipChism now in black shorts and barefoot going down a stairwell and leaving building
 

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Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Video picks up #PhilipChism in front of academic wing at 421 pm

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Video shows #PhilipChism chatting with another student athlete outside the school

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
#PhilipChism goes back into the school, this time through the field house

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
#PhilipChism has blue sneakers and black socks on

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Clip shows #PhilipChism entering boys locker room, he disappears from reach of surveillance video now

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 23s23 seconds ago
#PhilipChism eventually exits DHS through gymnasium
 

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Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 50s50 seconds ago Salem, MA
Video now showing #PhilipChism exiting gym, wearing glasses, doubling back. He just seems to be walking around a lot.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 57s57 seconds ago
DHS cameras capture #PhilipChism back in school, he heads to third floor again

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
He's wearing 2 drawstring type backpacks

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
Just after 430 pm, there is no more surveillance footage of #PhilipChism in Danvers High Sullivan says

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 3m3 minutes ago Salem, MA
Defense now questioning Sgt Sullivan.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
Regan is now asking Sullivan about #PhilipChism moving through the school.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Regan puts up diagram of DHS

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Regan asking Sullivan about #PhilipChism path through high school. She's using a laser pointer

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 1m1 minute ago
Defense will try to show that his movements and paths he took didn't make sense.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Regan is retracing all #PhilipChism steps. Sullivan intermittently replies yes and correct
 

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Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 45s46 seconds ago
#PhilipChism was in the woods with recycling bin for 25 mins

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 39s40 seconds ago
Regan still retracing #PhilipChism steps at DHS that day. ADA says she can use prosecution schematic if she wants

Todd Kazakiewich ‏@ToddKazakiewich 56s57 seconds ago
Defense Attorney Denise Regan is using cross to clarify Chism's movements (which seemed abundantly clear in video IMO)

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 54s55 seconds ago
Peggie Ritzer just walked out of courtroom after an exchange in which ADA offers to let defense atty use computer diagrams.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Sullivan, when questioned, says he doesn't know exact times #PhilipChism was different places in school without notes

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
While he might not immediately know times Sullivan seems to know #PhilipChism path that day and school locations very clearly

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 57s58 seconds ago
Sullivan says Ritzer was not carrying anything when she went into bathroom at end of the day

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 1m1 minute ago
After a brief sidebar, we're going to adjourn for the day, and the week

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 36s37 seconds ago Salem, MA
Judge says we're going to recess. Says trial is ahead of schedule and compliments jury on punctuality. Resumes 9 am Monday.
 

jacct

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Wow .. a lot of clothing changes. I have a house full of guests or I would go through and put it all together to show all the changes.. but he had quite a bit. Does anyone else have the time to do so?

Here's what I got from the tweets about clothing and backpacks. He arrived at school with 3 backpacks, wearing no glasses, blue jeans, red shirt. Throughout the day he put on and took off the red shirt, wore a white tshirt, blue hoodie, black shirt. He changed into shorts. His shoes and socks were changed. He put on and took off gloves and a mask. He put on his glasses. When he left the school he was wearing black shorts, black shirt, black socks, blue sneakers, and glasses and had 2 backpacks.

Here's the tweets about clothes/backpacks:

Another vantage shows #PhilipChism walking down hallway. He's in blue jeans and red shirt. He's wearing a back pack & carrying 2 other bags

Another video clip shows #PhilipChism entering Ritzer class for math. He's wearing a back pack and carrying a red draw string type backpack too

Now again seeing video of #PhilipChism following Ritzer into bathroom, hood up, putting on gloves.

He arrives for class in a red sweatshirt. But when he leaves the room he's wearing a blue hoodie.

Seeing for the first time video of #PhilipChism running outside in white tshirt, continues to jog back inside, up stairs.

Now blue hoodie is gone, dressed in white tshirt and jeans

Another video clip shows #PhilipChism with red sweatshirt over his head, heading down a stairwell

#PhilipChism comes back, wearing red sweatshirt, running, and that's when he sees soccer friend who was supposed to be meeting him outside.

Now has red sweatshirt back on

Video shows #PhilipChism rolling recycling bin into bathroom. 6 min pass, he comes out wearing mask, struggling with bin.

Now has on black ski mask (he pulled it down to his neck when he got to the parking lot)

Video shows him returning to his locker, then he goes to boys room on floor 3

He leaves boys room now in a black shirt

Now has on black shirt and jeans

#PhilipChism exits third floor stairwell, he's got a white and blue Nike backpack on now

#PhilipChism goes back in second floor girls room

Video shows #PhilipChism now in black shorts and barefoot going down a stairwell and leaving building

Now has on black shorts and no shoes, black shirt

Video picks up #PhilipChism in front of academic wing at 421 pm

#PhilipChism has blue sneakers and black socks on

Now has on black shorts, black shirt, black socks, blue sneakers

Video now showing #PhilipChism exiting gym, wearing glasses, doubling back. He just seems to be walking around a lot.

He's wearing 2 drawstring type backpacks

Leaves school wearing black shorts, black shirt, black socks, blue sneakers, glasses, 2 backpacks
 

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Not knowing how to bring a post over from closed thread, here is my thinking. If PC is not in cuffs, he could be chained to the floor, or have a stun device under his pants much like JA did. Still he would be dangerous because his hands are free, he is now much taller and stronger then before, and can get at his attorney(s). I am glad the female attorney is behind him for her safety, which makes me think he cannot reach her because he might be chained to the floor. I will search and see what the state might use in court. I think the big danger will come when the verdict is read.
 

Skigirl

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Creepy photo of video showing PC wearing mask and wheeling recycling bin:

chism1.jpg
 

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Marking my spot so I can find this thread again in the future.
 

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Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 50s50 seconds ago Salem, MA
Video now showing #PhilipChism exiting gym, wearing glasses, doubling back. He just seems to be walking around a lot.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 57s57 seconds ago
DHS cameras capture #PhilipChism back in school, he heads to third floor again

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
He's wearing 2 drawstring type backpacks

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
Just after 430 pm, there is no more surveillance footage of #PhilipChism in Danvers High Sullivan says

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 3m3 minutes ago Salem, MA
Defense now questioning Sgt Sullivan.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
Regan is now asking Sullivan about #PhilipChism moving through the school.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Regan puts up diagram of DHS

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Regan asking Sullivan about #PhilipChism path through high school. She's using a laser pointer

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 1m1 minute ago ]Defense will try to show that his movements and paths he took didn't make sense.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Regan is retracing all #PhilipChism steps. Sullivan intermittently replies yes and correct

BBM

I think that whatever he was doing/going/thinking made perfect sense to PC. The fact that he was all over the place doesn't surprise me. He's just raped and killed a woman, raped her again with a branch, disposed of her and is now making his "getaway" of sorts. He was only 14 at the time. My guess is he WAS all over the place.

Not trying to defend but just find it lame that the Defence would try to use this to prove mental illness?
 

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BBM

I think that whatever he was doing/going/thinking made perfect sense to PC. The fact that he was all over the place doesn't surprise me. He's just raped and killed a woman, raped her again with a branch, disposed of her and is now making his "getaway" of sorts. He was only 14 at the time. My guess is he WAS all over the place.

Not trying to defend but just find it lame that the Defence would try to use this to prove mental illness?

I agree - I mean, he had just committed a sexual homicide in an extremely violent fashion. Whatever he did after that would look bat-***** crazy. If he just calmly walked out to the soccer field and joined his practice, that would have looked bizarre too.
 
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