GUILTY MA - Conrad Roy, 18, urged by friend, commits suicide, Fairhaven, 13 July 2014 #2 *guilty*

[gitana1]

Genetics or environment eh?...The Nature/Nurture debate seems as old as time. I have come feel its mostly both, a genetic predisposition to psychopathy/personality disorders, and triggers. ( of some sort).

I do believe in the "Bad Seed" genetic predisposition though. I've lived long enough to see first hand, some very young children, who display...unusually low (and high), empathetic traits. It is well recognized that "Blank Slate" theory is invalid. Children do come with predispositions. How those are influenced is the question that remains. imo

Makes sense. Interesting stuff.

 

[gitana1]

Yes. I agree. That, and the other incredibly damning text, other than instructing Conrad to get back into his truck would be: "Sam, [the police] read my messages with him I'm done,"... "His family will hate me and I can go to jail."

Oooh. I didn't know about those. She knew she had done wrong. No doubt.

 

[The Farm]

Yes indideeeee she did know what she did. She told her friend "I could go to jail for this"
I tried looking to see if she had any siblings but nothing comes up. Still curious on that one. None have ever been mentioned that I noticed.

 

[DexterMorgan]

We have all seen judges give certain people very lenient sentences which required no real jail time. The affluenza kid. The elite Broch college rapist plus other cases.

So this case will probably end with a wth moment. Idk

 

[Safeguard]

Makes sense. Interesting stuff.

It really is. I am always wary of linking criminal behavior to abusive parenting. ( Many disordered individuals are extremely manipulative and they will take that ball and run with it!). I believe abuse can distort a healthy personality, but not create a psychopath.

Recall also, how Autism was first labeled, "Cold Mother Syndrome" and believed to be caused by lack of affection from mothers


When observers noted that moms did not hug these children as frequently, if at all, on observation. However, as it turned out, these moms had learned that their particular children did not welcome, or were even severely distressed by touch, and they were acting protectively to avoid upsetting their children.

Today no one would blame abusive parenting for causing autism.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Oooh. I didn't know about those. She knew she had done wrong. No doubt.

Also as I mentioned on the first thread.


She wrote about suicide prevention often on her social media accounts.


On Sept. 10, 2014, she posted on her Twitter page: “National Suicide Awareness day, I wish more people understood. I love you and miss you everyday Conrad. Help others #WeCanEndSuicide.” She retweeted the link to a suicide prevention hotline on Sept. 21, 2014.

 

[MsJosie]

Bbm
Maybe just show those friends who don't think she should be prosecuted this much:
"
At approximately 5:08 PM, Roy had returned from the beach and was considering backing out of the plan."
CONRAD: I’m home.
CARTER: Okay.
CONRAD: Ah.
CARTER: What?
CONRAD: I don’t know. I’m stressing.
CARTER: You’re fine. It’s gonna be okay. You just gotta do it, babe. You can’t think about it.
CONRAD: Okay. Okay. I got this.
CARTER: Yes, you do. I believe in you. Did you delete the messages?
CONRAD: Yes. But you’re going to keep messaging me.
CARTER: I will until you turn on the generator.
CONRAD: Okay. Well, I’m bringing my sisters for ice cream.
CARTER: So will you do it when you get back?
CONRAD: Yup, I’ll go right there.
CARTER: Okay.
CONRAD: Love you.
CARTER: I love so much."

I thought this was interesting....the last two texts Conrad said "Love you". He is telling Carter he loves her.

Carters response is "I love so much". She never uses the word YOU or CONRAD. Is she deliberately leaving out his name and saying she loves herself but not him?

Just thought it was strange and interesting.

 

[Safeguard]

The more I look at the Glee connection and the 'totality' of her quotes and references the more I am convinced that she is not mentally ill but reckless, immature and self absorbed JMO

Rsbbm

I hope your right, I really do. It had crossed my mind, that being such as you describe above, she might very well have, first considered the possible benefits to herself ,( in large colorful fantasies, no doubt!), if Conrad committed suicide, and then so enamored of playing the "Grieving Girlfriend" was she...that she stopped at nothing to be able to justify to herself that she was also "helping" him get what he really wanted, but was struggling to achieve. ( even though she was obviously aware that others would not share her vision!).

If this is indeed, a case of severely delayed emotional development, and the acts of a desperately needy young women, ( as opposed to a "hard-wired disorder IE: Psychopathy), than at least the possibility exists that now that her illusions have been thoroughly shattered, she may actually get the help she needs. Sometimes a crisis of this magnitude, does lead to personal growth. I hate to say it, in this case...but I have seen it happen.

Since she is un-likely to serve time, this would be the best we can hope for really. imo.

 

[MsArk]

We have all seen judges give certain people very lenient sentences which required no real jail time. The affluenza kid. The elite Broch college rapist plus other cases.

So this case will probably end with a wth moment. Idk

Just in viewing this judge on the Lady Justice channels, I get the feeling this judge will not allow this defendants appearance, socioeconomic status or anything else cloud his judgement when considering the correct ruling. JMO

 

[MsArk]

Correct me if I am wrong. She is being charged with manslaughter. Is there a voluntary or involuntary component? Just started following case as it came to trial. TY!

 

[KaaBoom]

Correct me if I am wrong. She is being charged with manslaughter. Is there a voluntary or involuntary component? Just started following case as it came to trial. TY!

I believe she is charged with involuntary manslaughter.

Michelle Carter, charged with involuntary manslaughter in texting suicide case, due in court

 

[neesaki]

I thought this was interesting....the last two texts Conrad said "Love you". He is telling Carter he loves her.

Carters response is "I love so much". She never uses the word YOU or CONRAD. Is she deliberately leaving out his name and saying she loves herself but not him?

Just thought it was strange and interesting.

I think that's a very good point. I've not followed this case closely until now, so thanks for bringing it out. I personally think this girl is a sociopath of the worst order. Bad Seed. Jodi Arias. What have you. She needs to go away for a very long time, and it disturbs me that she probably won't, at least according to what I've been reading here. I think if she gets off on probation, she very likely could end up doing something like Jodi Arias. God Help us all. :scared:

 

[MsArk]

This has been discussed I'm sure but for my own curiosity....

Manslaughter is the killing of one human being by another that is not premeditated. In Massachusetts, involuntary manslaughter occurs when someone unintentionally causes the death of another person, when the defendant was engaging in some type of reckless conduct or while committing a serious battery upon another person.

I do believe she was engaging in reckless conduct by her constant suggestions of suicide.
How much more reckless can someone be, actually. That said, I see the attorneys on this thread do anticipate a more favorable ruling.

Is that based on simple personal responsibility in that, no matter what, we all have free will to decide our actions? As in Conrad "could" have stayed out of the car when he escaped rather than going back in as ordered by her?

This is a hard one for me. She is an evil person, fundamentally broken, IMO, who did cause his suicide, at least on that day.. However, I can kind of see the flip side.

Tragic all the way around.

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/massac...ry-manslaughter-and-motor-vehicle-homicid.htl

ETA--- apologize if my post doesn't make much sense. I know what I was trying to say but not sure if it came out in a thoughtful and coherent manner.

 

[borndem]

Yay Buzzfeed!! How great that Buzzfeed followed up on this in such depth. I could tell when the person brought this to everyone's attention in the comments (in the link you posted earlier as your source) that other posters were on it like we were...contacting the author of the article and the D.A.

It's interesting to find out that MC was a huge fan of Lea Michele (her favorite person). As a commenter on this article mentioned, MC had to copy other people's words to express emotions she knew she should feel. She also seems to want to be just like Michele. I think it's quite possibly significant that Monteith and Roy died a year apart to the day. Does anyone think it's possible that MC pushed him so hard partly for that reason? I wonder. Any way you look at it, it's depraved and evil.

bbm

Two words -- true sociopath

 

[borndem]

bbm

Absolutely. I believe it. I was stunned to learn that. I can't believe how she just "became" that character from Glee, after Conrad died. She doesn't have a human soul. She had to mimic someone who does. Uhhggg.

bbm

Two words: true sociopath

 

[Safeguard]

I think that's a very good point. I've not followed this case closely until now, so thanks for bringing it out. I personally think this girl is a sociopath of the worst order. Bad Seed. Jodi Arias. What have you. She needs to go away for a very long time, and it disturbs me that she probably won't, at least according to what I've been reading here. I think if she gets off on probation, she very likely could end up doing something like Jodi Arias. God Help us all. :scared:

bbm
While it's possible, I suppose, (and we do tend to think the worst here.), There have been many equally depraved killers who never re-offended... Karla Homolka was far, far worse than MC, she even made a video in which she talked about how much she "enjoyed" raping and killing her little sister! (http://mascaramurder.blogspot.ca/2012/03/karla-homolka-and-fireside-chat.html) yet now she's married, ( she married the brother of her defense attorney, oddly enough!), has kids and lives a seemingly "normal" life...

It's a call, no one can really make. I do agree with you at a gut level though, this kind of Evil being loose in the world a very scary thought.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

bbm

Two words -- true sociopath

One word -- psychopath

 

[Piney Woods]

Wow, I just realized Conrad Roy had just been hired as a boat captain for Boston Duck Tours. At the age of 18 too. That's a pretty good gig for an 18 year old. That position could have led to some great things for him in the future.

What a terrible thing she did to this vulnerable young man.

I can clearly remember age 18 and being just a little too wrapped up in a significant other. Guys that age can all too often torpedo their lives by taking relationships way too seriously. Add in this guy's previous mental issues and a lunatic girl, poor guy didn't stand a chance by himself. I know it's armchair quarterbacking but perhaps a strong, mature male figure in his life might have helped.

 

[Tigerlily75]

This has been discussed I'm sure but for my own curiosity....

Manslaughter is the killing of one human being by another that is not premeditated. In Massachusetts, involuntary manslaughter occurs when someone unintentionally causes the death of another person, when the defendant was engaging in some type of reckless conduct or while committing a serious battery upon another person.

I do believe she was engaging in reckless conduct by her constant suggestions of suicide.
How much more reckless can someone be, actually. That said, I see the attorneys on this thread do anticipate a more favorable ruling.

Is that based on simple personal responsibility in that, no matter what, we all have free will to decide our actions? As in Conrad "could" have stayed out of the car when he escaped rather than going back in as ordered by her?

This is a hard one for me. She is an evil person, fundamentally broken, IMO, who did cause his suicide, at least on that day.. However, I can kind of see the flip side.

Tragic all the way around.

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/massac...ry-manslaughter-and-motor-vehicle-homicid.htl

ETA--- apologize if my post doesn't make much sense. I know what I was trying to say but not sure if it came out in a thoughtful and coherent manner.

Yes, on that day is a very key point, I think. The defense is painting a picture of a boy with a long history of suicidal thoughts, but the truth is he killed himself on that day because of Michelle Carter. Whether he would have done so on another day, in another week, in another year, is completely irrelevant and pure speculation. He was in that truck that night because of Michelle Carter.

He got out of the truck at one point too - which says to me he didn't really want to die - I imagine him having that moment of panic, a survival instinct maybe - and she insisted he get back in. And he did, and he died.

He can never get help now, he can never overcome it, he can never have a chance to look back on that period of his life and think "wow I'm so glad I made it through, look at where I am now". He had a real chance to get through this, and live a full life, if not for her. It makes me so sad.

 

[rosesfromangels]

This is such a deeply troubling case at so many levels...
Do the girls' parents seem equally disturbed?
Truly, I would be afraid to have this girl around any of my loved ones.

All speculation and opinion only.