MA MA - Joan Risch, 30, Lincoln, 24 Oct 1961

Really, I wasn't aware that the scent hounds had been taken to the locations of the sightings. Do you know where that was mentioned? That puts a different spin on the witness sightings of "Joan" if correct....
But for some reason I just can't dismiss them, it seems such a coincidence that there was another woman in the area in similar clothes and with perhaps bloody that was in distress and yet never came forward or was identified.
I also wonder if said woman had mud on her legs, and not blood, whether that could have masked her scent. I'm certainly no expert but I seem to recall that mud can hide a person's scent? Or have I just made that up?

Yes, it's in the book "A Kitchen Painted in Blood". The writer is a retired attorney who was 12 and living a couple of towns away when it happened. When he retired, he went to the library and also got copies of the investigation files. There was a little more detailed information about the scent dogs than had been reported in the news media.


Considering it was 1961, local and state LE did a pretty thorough investigation. They followed up all the tips. If you haven't read this book, give it a try, its very good.

They did take the scent hounds to, IIRC, three different locations where people reported seeing a woman who they thought was Joan. I think they did all of this on the same day, when the scent at her home was fresh. The conclusion seemed to be that she got into a car at her home/driveway and was driven away. She didn't walk down the road, nor did she get out of a car at any of the places where tipsters saw a woman who looked like her.

ETA JMO, eyewitnesses can often get things wrong. It happens. I think it's even more likely when someone sees something as they're passing someone on a roadside or highway. You're just getting a glimpse of something or someone, especially in a rearview mirror. Imaginations work overtime with news of a local woman gone missing from her bloody kitchen. The witnesses probably had good intentions and wanted to help.
 
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Okay, I have been delving deep into every bit of info I can find on this one, I was certain that it could be solved beyond a reasonable doubt and I have just now finished “A kitchen painted in blood” and I have to say what an extremely well-researched and excellently written account. Steven J. Ahern has done an excellent job and I am thoroughly convinced by his argument (I was starting to lean that way even before reading the book). I always suspected it was a family member or close friend and with the brilliantly researched facts about the various problems in the Nattrass family, it seems only logical. (I don’t want to give too much away for those who haven’t yet read the book).

I was originally under the impression that the original investigation was not very thorough, but I now realise that LE did a very good job and seemingly left no stone unturned. The fact that Joan’s cousin/stepbrother was the only person out of quite a long list of potential suspects whose alibi didn’t check out, that he had apparently fallen in with dubious characters and that he and Joan were already on opposite sides in the family argument lends itself to this theory. Knowing that Joan’s Uncle did ,in the end, move to California to join his wife and daughter after Joan had disappeared, the very thing Joan had been trying to prevent, leads me to believe that the opposition to this move (ie; Joan) had been “removed”.

There are just a couple of points where I would go further than Mr. Ahern. The book never says never and only cautiously dismisses theories, but I just cannot seem to shake the importance of the Oldsmobile and the sightings. It seems to me that it is just too much of a coincidence that there was a bloody woman dressed in similar clothes to Joan wandering around dazed and confused who was never identified and eliminated from enquiries.

Therefore it is my theory that it was indeed Ben Nattrass and a friend (perhaps his roommate who was apparently a “dubious character”) who visited Joan that fateful day, probably driving in the two-tone Oldsmobile that was seen in her driveway, possibly it had been stolen earlier by them (we know that the car was stolen at some point, we don’t know if it was before or after the 24th October and we don’t know where from). Despite not getting along, Joan probably did let Ben into the house as he was her step-brother/cousin. Ben would have been trying to get Joan to stop influencing his mother and sisters to remain in California and to stop making accusations of sexual abuse against his father, to whom he remained loyal. I doubt we will ever know the sequence of events in the kitchen but clearly there was an argument and someone was injured, though I suspect this injury was not life threatening at first and blood was trailed around the kitchen. Joan probably attempted to call someone for help at which point either Ben or his accomplice panicked and ripped the phone’s handset off the wall. I don’t think Ben ever meant to harm Joan but to scare her, and at this point I think the decision was made to take Joan to hospital. A bleeding Joan was taken out to the Oldsmobile in the drive. At this point she either made a run for it and left her blood on her own car, or else she leant on her car for support in her weakened state. The Oldsmobile backed out of the drive and headed North, seen by Hilda Ziegler. Again the sequence of events from here is pure speculation on my part; but I think that Ben and his accomplice, by now panicking and possibly arguing with each other as well, let Joan out of the car somewhere along or near Route 128. They probably hoped that she would be found or taken to hospital by someone and, as long as she didn’t mention their names, they would be in the clear. They may have threatened something in order that she wouldn’t accuse them.

Unfortunately Joan never made it to a hospital and no one who saw her helped her. She wandered, dazed and getting weaker and weaker from an injury that, although not at first fatal, untreated left her closer to death and exhausted. I think this is why the police described Ben as so distressed when they first told him that Joan was missing and questioned him; because he had assumed that Joan by now was probably back at home and on the mend. It may also explain why LE couldn’t find him later for a second round of questioning; I think he fled in fear until the investigation had died down a bit. I don’t think Ben intentionally murdered Joan, but certainly his actions led to her death. I would be interested to know what the relationship between the Risches and the Nattrasses was after Joan’s disappearance. Like LE, I get the impression that Martin Risch knew more than he let on. I think he may have been aware that Joan was alive when she was last seen by Ben and that’s why he always held out a hope that she was alive somewhere with amnesia. I can’t say why he didn’t tell anyone if he did know.

I am aware that this theory leaves several things unexplained which some may find annoying (me included) but it does seem that every theory about this case seems to leave something out…it seems impossible to explain all the things in one theory. Mine doesn’t account for:

  • Sniffer dogs and searchers finding no evidence of Joan. I can’t explain why, except to say they don’t have 100% success rate and I guess they just missed her.
  • The lack of a body. Honestly I tried to find her. I trawled the unidentified decedents on NAMUS for several states and the closest I could come up with was that a fair amount of bones have been found that, unless DNA tested, will probably never be identified. If not her, then I think it is possible that Joan is still were she died and was just never found-I notice how much thick woodland covers the area and I think she is still I there somewhere.
  • The blood in the bedrooms. I can only surmise that someone went up to the bedrooms while bloody, maybe not even Joan, it may have been Lillian later on.
  • The apparent clean-up. I am of the opinion that little Lillian tried to clean up the mess in the kitchen and then went upstairs. Either that or Joan herself began cleaning up during the confused time before she was abducted.
  • The sighting on Route 2A. I don’t think this was Joan. If it was then it means that she either made it that far on her own without trying to get help, or that she was taken and let out of the car twice, which doesn’t seem likely.
  • The “red” thing that Joan was seen apparently chasing after. I think that this was either David who had woken up from his nap and maybe was wearing red, or Barbara inadvertently saw Joan greet her visitors when they arrived (maybe one was wearing red) but she failed to see the car or people clearly. I don’t think Barbara can have been as eagle-eyed as we have been led to believe since at this point the children had been back in her yard for 20 mins and she apparently wasn’t aware of the fact.


Well I am sure there are more things. Again, to reiterate, just my own theory, but it works for me and has made some semblance of all the different strands in this case that were going through my head! Since we don’t know then everyone’s theories at this point are equally valid I suppose.

If nothing else, then I hope you all enjoyed the read. For tjose of you that haven’t yet, I strongly recommend getting your hands on a copy if “A kitchen painted in Blood” by Stephen J Ahern.
 
Okay, I have been delving deep into every bit of info I can find on this one, I was certain that it could be solved beyond a reasonable doubt and I have just now finished “A kitchen painted in blood” and I have to say what an extremely well-researched and excellently written account. Steven J. Ahern has done an excellent job and I am thoroughly convinced by his argument (I was starting to lean that way even before reading the book). I always suspected it was a family member or close friend and with the brilliantly researched facts about the various problems in the Nattrass family, it seems only logical. (I don’t want to give too much away for those who haven’t yet read the book).

I was originally under the impression that the original investigation was not very thorough, but I now realise that LE did a very good job and seemingly left no stone unturned. The fact that Joan’s cousin/stepbrother was the only person out of quite a long list of potential suspects whose alibi didn’t check out, that he had apparently fallen in with dubious characters and that he and Joan were already on opposite sides in the family argument lends itself to this theory. Knowing that Joan’s Uncle did ,in the end, move to California to join his wife and daughter after Joan had disappeared, the very thing Joan had been trying to prevent, leads me to believe that the opposition to this move (ie; Joan) had been “removed”.

There are just a couple of points where I would go further than Mr. Ahern. The book never says never and only cautiously dismisses theories, but I just cannot seem to shake the importance of the Oldsmobile and the sightings. It seems to me that it is just too much of a coincidence that there was a bloody woman dressed in similar clothes to Joan wandering around dazed and confused who was never identified and eliminated from enquiries.

Therefore it is my theory that it was indeed Ben Nattrass and a friend (perhaps his roommate who was apparently a “dubious character”) who visited Joan that fateful day, probably driving in the two-tone Oldsmobile that was seen in her driveway, possibly it had been stolen earlier by them (we know that the car was stolen at some point, we don’t know if it was before or after the 24th October and we don’t know where from). Despite not getting along, Joan probably did let Ben into the house as he was her step-brother/cousin. Ben would have been trying to get Joan to stop influencing his mother and sisters to remain in California and to stop making accusations of sexual abuse against his father, to whom he remained loyal. I doubt we will ever know the sequence of events in the kitchen but clearly there was an argument and someone was injured, though I suspect this injury was not life threatening at first and blood was trailed around the kitchen. Joan probably attempted to call someone for help at which point either Ben or his accomplice panicked and ripped the phone’s handset off the wall. I don’t think Ben ever meant to harm Joan but to scare her, and at this point I think the decision was made to take Joan to hospital. A bleeding Joan was taken out to the Oldsmobile in the drive. At this point she either made a run for it and left her blood on her own car, or else she leant on her car for support in her weakened state. The Oldsmobile backed out of the drive and headed North, seen by Hilda Ziegler. Again the sequence of events from here is pure speculation on my part; but I think that Ben and his accomplice, by now panicking and possibly arguing with each other as well, let Joan out of the car somewhere along or near Route 128. They probably hoped that she would be found or taken to hospital by someone and, as long as she didn’t mention their names, they would be in the clear. They may have threatened something in order that she wouldn’t accuse them.

Unfortunately Joan never made it to a hospital and no one who saw her helped her. She wandered, dazed and getting weaker and weaker from an injury that, although not at first fatal, untreated left her closer to death and exhausted. I think this is why the police described Ben as so distressed when they first told him that Joan was missing and questioned him; because he had assumed that Joan by now was probably back at home and on the mend. It may also explain why LE couldn’t find him later for a second round of questioning; I think he fled in fear until the investigation had died down a bit. I don’t think Ben intentionally murdered Joan, but certainly his actions led to her death. I would be interested to know what the relationship between the Risches and the Nattrasses was after Joan’s disappearance. Like LE, I get the impression that Martin Risch knew more than he let on. I think he may have been aware that Joan was alive when she was last seen by Ben and that’s why he always held out a hope that she was alive somewhere with amnesia. I can’t say why he didn’t tell anyone if he did know.

I am aware that this theory leaves several things unexplained which some may find annoying (me included) but it does seem that every theory about this case seems to leave something out…it seems impossible to explain all the things in one theory. Mine doesn’t account for:

  • Sniffer dogs and searchers finding no evidence of Joan. I can’t explain why, except to say they don’t have 100% success rate and I guess they just missed her.
  • The lack of a body. Honestly I tried to find her. I trawled the unidentified decedents on NAMUS for several states and the closest I could come up with was that a fair amount of bones have been found that, unless DNA tested, will probably never be identified. If not her, then I think it is possible that Joan is still were she died and was just never found-I notice how much thick woodland covers the area and I think she is still I there somewhere.
  • The blood in the bedrooms. I can only surmise that someone went up to the bedrooms while bloody, maybe not even Joan, it may have been Lillian later on.
  • The apparent clean-up. I am of the opinion that little Lillian tried to clean up the mess in the kitchen and then went upstairs. Either that or Joan herself began cleaning up during the confused time before she was abducted.
  • The sighting on Route 2A. I don’t think this was Joan. If it was then it means that she either made it that far on her own without trying to get help, or that she was taken and let out of the car twice, which doesn’t seem likely.
  • The “red” thing that Joan was seen apparently chasing after. I think that this was either David who had woken up from his nap and maybe was wearing red, or Barbara inadvertently saw Joan greet her visitors when they arrived (maybe one was wearing red) but she failed to see the car or people clearly. I don’t think Barbara can have been as eagle-eyed as we have been led to believe since at this point the children had been back in her yard for 20 mins and she apparently wasn’t aware of the fact.


Well I am sure there are more things. Again, to reiterate, just my own theory, but it works for me and has made some semblance of all the different strands in this case that were going through my head! Since we don’t know then everyone’s theories at this point are equally valid I suppose.

If nothing else, then I hope you all enjoyed the read. For tjose of you that haven’t yet, I strongly recommend getting your hands on a copy if “A kitchen painted in Blood” by Stephen J Ahern.
I'm saving my Amazon Points to get the book soon. I've been looking forward to reading it. From everything that's been said about it I think it must be the best account of the Risch case yet.
 
Is it known whether Martin was out of town the first time the mystery car was spotted? If he was, that tells me that A) whoever did this wanted to be there with no interference and B) he knew Martin wasn't there because either Joan told him or someone who knew the Risches well knew he wasn't. Either way that it brings it closer to home, so to speak.

As for the woman wandering dazed, I think at least one might've been her. Eyewitnesses are unreliable with a lot of facts, but a wandering woman with blood running down her legs and clutching her stomach is pretty specific. Unless you have multiple attention-grabbers feeding off an initial report. I'm curious if the same dogs from the house were used at the other "sighting" locations. Some are more accurate than others. And it stands to reason that her driveway to the neighbors would have carried more scent because she made at least 2 passes and lived there. And we know she had gone to the driveway to get to the car to get to the dentist.
 
Is it known whether Martin was out of town the first time the mystery car was spotted? If he was, that tells me that A) whoever did this wanted to be there with no interference and B) he knew Martin wasn't there because either Joan told him or someone who knew the Risches well knew he wasn't. Either way that it brings it closer to home, so to speak.

As for the woman wandering dazed, I think at least one might've been her. Eyewitnesses are unreliable with a lot of facts, but a wandering woman with blood running down her legs and clutching her stomach is pretty specific. Unless you have multiple attention-grabbers feeding off an initial report. I'm curious if the same dogs from the house were used at the other "sighting" locations. Some are more accurate than others. And it stands to reason that her driveway to the neighbors would have carried more scent because she made at least 2 passes and lived there. And we know she had gone to the driveway to get to the car to get to the dentist.
 
Regarding the get-together the Risches had with the Kawais and the Butlers shortly before she went missing, it almost seems like Joan was providing an alibi for herself?

for those who don't know, on October 15, 1961, Martin and Joan got together with two other couples: The Kawais were a couple from Japan; the husband was a visiting professor at Harvard. The Butlers were neighbors. The Kawais had mentioned that they left their children behind in Japan while they were living in Massachusetts. Joan reportedly responded to this by saying she could never leave her children, she would miss them too much.

This might seem like a rather innocuous, off-handed comment but what is curious is that both Mr. Kawai and Mrs. Butler noted Joan's demeanor. Mr. Kawai judged her to be in a "mood" and Mrs. Butler thought Joan appeared so nervous she took her aside and asked if everything was alright.

Seeing as this was only 9 days before she went missing and her behavior was notable enough for Mr. Kawai and Mrs. Butler to be taken aback, I'm getting the feeling that someone may have threatened her. "I can make it look like you left your life behind"

this could maybe be a reach, i know, but she made that comment while visibly tense/nervous, and then she goes missing shortly after? seems more than a coincidence IMO
 
Regarding the get-together the Risches had with the Kawais and the Butlers shortly before she went missing, it almost seems like Joan was providing an alibi for herself?

for those who don't know, on October 15, 1961, Martin and Joan got together with two other couples: The Kawais were a couple from Japan; the husband was a visiting professor at Harvard. The Butlers were neighbors. The Kawais had mentioned that they left their children behind in Japan while they were living in Massachusetts. Joan reportedly responded to this by saying she could never leave her children, she would miss them too much.

This might seem like a rather innocuous, off-handed comment but what is curious is that both Mr. Kawai and Mrs. Butler noted Joan's demeanor. Mr. Kawai judged her to be in a "mood" and Mrs. Butler thought Joan appeared so nervous she took her aside and asked if everything was alright.

Seeing as this was only 9 days before she went missing and her behavior was notable enough for Mr. Kawai and Mrs. Butler to be taken aback, I'm getting the feeling that someone may have threatened her. "I can make it look like you left your life behind"

this could maybe be a reach, i know, but she made that comment while visibly tense/nervous, and then she goes missing shortly after? seems more than a coincidence IMO
Not sure if she was setting up an alibi. However, after reading Ahern’s book, I get the impression from the author that something was on Joan’s mind in those early weeks of October. Specifically, she seemed pre occupied with some upcoming event. In fact, I highlighted a note in the book where the author mentioned Joan having a beer with lunch on the day of her disappearance. I found this note curious.
 
I read Steven Ahern’s book, Kindle version last year. I made a lot of notes and highlights. When I get a little time I will write a longer commentary. I have followed the case for sometime and live in the area.

One frustrating note off the top of my head has always has been the account of the blue/gray car backing out of the Risch driveway by Hildy Ziegler. Admittedly, I may be biased because I consider myself extremely observant. However, how in the world, can you not see how many people were in the car or whether the driver was male or female. She was stopped, allowing them to do a three point turn and…the car drove past her! I cannot understand how she did not see who was driving? I am not looking for real specifics, just was it a male or female driving and was there more than one passenger in the car?
 
Without reading the whole thread my question is what are really skilled crimescene investigators make/made of the blood splatters/drops, direction, pattern, impact, etc.

Something that's stand out to me...what mom/woman would use children's clothing to clean up blood, being in a kitchen where there a plenty of other things to use, f.i. tea and kitchen towels.

Also in one of the paper clippings "Chemist found a quantity of short human hair apparently pulled from a man's head." Apparently??!! Huh???
 
Without reading the whole thread my question is what are really skilled crimescene investigators make/made of the blood splatters/drops, direction, pattern, impact, etc.

Something that's stand out to me...what mom/woman would use children's clothing to clean up blood, being in a kitchen where there a plenty of other things to use, f.i. tea and kitchen towels.

Also in one of the paper clippings "Chemist found a quantity of short human hair apparently pulled from a man's head." Apparently??!! Huh???
This is the first I ever saw his info. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think it wasn't from a man's head? Also..how were they able to ascertain it was from a "man's" head?

I never understood about using the child's clothes to clean up blood either, especially when there is quite clearly a roll of paper towels and probably she had cleaning products in the kitchen. It does rather suggest someone in a panic grabbing the first thing they could.
 
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Joan Carolyn Risch, age 30, missing since 24 October 1961 from Lincoln, MA

  • Height and Weight 5'7, 120 pounds
  • Clothing/Jewelry Description A gray cloth coat (possibly Peck and Peck brand), a blouse, a sweater, a charcoal-colored wool skirt, blue sneakers with white piping, a slim platinum wedding band with five diamond chips, and possibly a scarf on her head. Her shoes have been variously described as blue high heels, flats, or sneakers with piping.
  • Associated Vehicle(s) Dirty blue/gray 1954 or 1955 sedan
  • Distinguishing Characteristics Caucasian female. Brown hair, blue eyes. Risch's blood type is O. Her birth name was Joan Bard, and she was later adopted by a family named Nattrass and took that name; this was her maiden name. She has a filling in her left upper molar and her ears are pierced. When nervous she may break out in a red rash on her neck below her chin; the rash requires medication to clear.

Details of Disappearance​

Risch was a homemaker in Lincoln, Massachusetts in 1961. She was married and had two children. The family had moved to Lincoln from Ridgefield, Connecticut about seven months before.

Her husband was out of town on a business trip on the day of her disappearance, October 24, 1961. She went with her four-year-old daughter to the dentist that morning, cashed a check and went shopping. She returned home for lunch at 11:00 a.m., put her two-year-old son in his crib for a nap. Her daughter played outside with a neighbor boy.

At 1:55 p.m., Risch took her daughter and the neighbor boy to his parents' home and left them at the swingset in the yard, without saying anything to the boy's parents. She told them she would be back, then returned home alone. At 2:15 p.m., a neighbor saw Risch standing next to her blue sedan outside the family's residence on Old Bedford Road. She was carrying something red and appeared to be dazed.

This is the last time anyone saw Risch. Her daughter came home from the neighbor's at 4:00 p.m., then immediately ran back to say that her mother was missing and "red paint" covered the kitchen walls. The "paint" turned out to be type O blood, Risch's type.

The Risches' telephone had been ripped from the kitchen wall and thrown in a wastebasket. The wastebasket had been moved from the corner to the center of the room, and a nearby telephone book was found opened at the emergency numbers section.

There was a single bloody thumbprint on the phone mount, and two fingerprints and a partial palm print on the wall; they were not Risch's prints, and have never been identified. The only other sign of a struggle was an overturned chair in the kitchen. Risch's son was still in his crib upstairs.

The blood trail led from the baby's room to the kitchen and then outside to the Risch family' driveway, where it stopped near her parked car. Blood drops were found on the hood and trunk of the car itself, but there were no bloody footprints inside on the kitchen floor. There was no sign of Risch herself inside the residence.

Investigators thought there was about a pint of blood spread throughout the house. Someone had made efforts to clean up in the kitchen with paper towels and a pair of Risch's son's coveralls.

Witnesses reported seeing an unidentified dirty blue/gray 1954 or 1955 sedan parked behind Risch's car in the Risches' driveway at 3:20 p.m. the day of the disappearance. Drivers also saw a woman walking along the road where Route 128 was under construction later in the day. No one stopped to assist the unidentified female, who was disheveled, appeared confused or dazed, and was holding something against her abdomen. Blood was running down the backs of her legs.

After these initial reports, sightings of Risch ceased. She has never been heard from again.

Risch's husband was in New York on October 24 for a business trip; he had left early that morning. He was questioned by investigators but was cleared of any involvement in her disappearance. Authorities did learn that Risch checked out over 25 library books during the previous summer, all of them related to murder or unexplained disappearances. Her husband described her as an avid reader who enjoyed suspense stories.

Some people theorized that Risch chose to stage her own disappearance because she was unhappy with her life. She had worked in the publishing field in New York prior to her marriage. She chose to end her career to raise her family. Although many described her as a devoted mother who had a happy marriage and was deeply attached to her husband and children, some friends claimed Risch was very ambitious and was not fulfilled with her home life.

Others speculated Risch was attacked and was suffering from amnesia as a result. Another hypothesis in the same vein is that Risch was not assaulted at all, but simply suffered an episode of some type and left her residence.

Both of these theories could suggest the possibility that Risch wandered into a pit on the Route 128 construction site the night she disappeared and was unknowingly buried. She has no history of amnesiac experiences, however, and no history of mental illness in either herself or her family.

Newspaper reports from 1961 state that Risch may have been sexually abused as a child. Another account stated that her parents died in a strange fire in New Jersey in 1940, when Risch was nine years old; she was raised by an aunt and uncle after that. Both of these reports suggest that she may have had personal reasons for wanting to stage her disappearance.

Risch was born in Brooklyn, New York, and graduated from Wilson College in Pennsylvania in 1952, with a degree in English. Her case remains open and unsolved.
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I'm currently going through the thread again and some thoughts pop up so I'm writing them down after reacquainting myself with some details.

I've now read that the fingerprints and palm print on the wall near phone were Joan's. They were matched to prints that were taken when she was a schoolgirl in New Jersey. Many parents wanted their children fingerprinted as a response to the kidnapping and murder of the Lindbergh baby.

A unknown woman called her home after she went missing while her favourite aunt was there to provide emotional support to Joan's husband and children. The woman seemed confused and kept asking for Flossie. Joan's pet name for her aunt was Flossie. Few people would have known that name. Was it just a hoax?

I'm still not sure about the alcohol containers in the wastebasket. I've read conflicting reports regarding what her husband said about the empty liquor bottle and the beer bottles. He has stated he and Joan shared the last of the whiskey the night before (Monday night) and the beer was consumed by them on the weekend when they had company (lets presume Saturday night) BUT he also said they finished the whiskey the night before but had no idea where the beer bottles came from. Was her husband truly forgetting about the beer and company or was he trying to cover for his wife because he didn't think it was respectable if women drank during the day? Surely, there was verification by LE regarding weekend company and that beer had been offered? Would Joan have left empty, stinky beer bottles in the kitchen wastebasket for nearly 3 days? Nothing worse than the smell of stale beer. I read one narrative that after her morning appointment she had done the dishes, made the beds and did a general tidying up, so why were those bottles still in the kitchen wastebasket?

It's a mystery to me why the wastebasket was right in the middle of the kitchen floor. It makes no sense at all. I've read the kitchen table was overturned. Are there any images available of the kitchen table to see where it was in relation to the wastebasket and wall phone? I It's also odd having an overflowing wastebasket in the kitchen when they had a breezeway leading to the garage. The breezeway or the garage are more likely locations to store trash until it was picked up. And according to the link below, the garbage men came by to collect trash that morning so why wasn't the whiskey and beer bottles put in the garbage? Could you return beer and alcohol bottles back then like you could with pop (soda) bottles? Is that why they were still there?

Here's a link to a blog that provides a lot of the names associated with the delivery guys and the time lines before, during, and after the dentist appointment. Some of the facts seem to contradict other sources of info, however, such as the finger and hand prints and whether they were later identified as Joan's or not. A few other details as well.


Lets suppose that Joan was pregnant at the time of her disappearance and lets further suppose that she was unaware she was pregnant and drank and smoked. After watching the series Mad Men it's obvious that pregnant woman drank and smoked during their pregnancies since being pregnant wasn't a reason to stop back then.

I have also read that an anesthetic like lidocaine can have a detrimental effect on some individuals when it comes to excessive bleeding. It can exacerbate anemia and slow the blood clotting effect. Alcohol can do the same thing. Alcohol is a blood thinner, it increases estrogen levels which stimulates the endometrium resulting in heavier periods. Link: How Does Alcohol Affect Your Period? - New Directions for Women. Would it further exacerbate a miscarriage, too?

If Joan was pregnant and she wasn't aware of it yet, it's still possible that drinking alcohol combined with the lidocaine administered during the dental appointment could have instigated a miscarriage. Miscarriages and stillbirths can be one of the triggering factors in stroke in pregnant women. Strokes, including TIAs, can create confusion, memory, fainting and visual difficulties.

This is an interesting link: Stillbirth and miscarriage are ‘specific risk factors for stroke’

What about this scenario? Joan comes home, picks up her son from her neighbour and goes into the house to make lunch for the kids. After lunch she sends Lillian outside to play with the neighbour's boy and does some light housework. She takes her son upstairs for his afternoon nap holding a clean pair of overalls and a diaper for him in case he needs changing. While she's getting him ready for his nap she feels a gushing of blood. Alarmed, instead of changing David, she uses his overalls to stanch the blood flow. She makes her way downstairs where the bathroom is, bleeding as she goes. The bleeding accelerates. Feeling faint from anxiety and losing blood she stumbles over to the little table holding the telephone directory to call an emergency number instead of heading to the bathroom. She leans on the table reaching for the phone book losing her balance in the process, tipping over the table and ends up sitting on the floor under the wall phone. She tries to get up using the cord to steady herself pulling the handset off the cradle in the process, disconnecting the cord. Not realizing what she's done, she leans against the wall leaving her bloody prints there and the phone before realizing the phone is dead. Sinking to the floor she crawls along smearing blood as she goes without leaving any footprints trying to make her way outside. And...... this is where I lose my theory because I can't find a logical link that has Joan walking upright again, donning her gray cloth coat, walking like a zombie and disappearing into the ether.

I'm still concerned that the only narrative we have of Joan and the timelines of her day is from her neighbour who she dropped her son off to while she went to the dentist with her daughter. We have confirmation of Joan's attendance from the two individuals who delivered the mail and picked up Joan's dry cleaning. That person entered the home while Joan was there and picked up the items and said nothing appeared wrong or suspicious.

Barbara's timeline are always so specific. Instead of saying "around two", she says "at 1:55". She always seemed to be looking out the window or checking on the kids at the exact time Joan is walking around with her hands out in front of her, or at the exact time she trimming the hedge. Why is that? Was she a little resentful that Joan just sent her kids over there to play so she could tackle her own stuff.? Were they really friends or just acquaintances who availed themselves of each other when the kids were involved?

As for the coat hanger on the car roof, it could be the dry cleaning guy who dropped a coat hanger going back to his vehicle and the next tradesperson may have picked it up and put it on the car roof. We have their time confirmations but Barbara doesn't mention seeing either tradesmen.

I don't think the hanger has anything to do with a home abortion since a coat hanger is manipulated into a long piece of wire with a hook on the end. If Joan did have an abortion that day it may be more likely the dentist performed the procedure. I just can't see one being performed in the home. It would have been so risky what with children in the mix coming and going, neighbours popping over and various service people like the milkman and mailman.

The thing that still confuses me is that when she came home from the dentist and shopping Joan apparently changed her clothing. She hung up her trench coat and changed into a housedress and different shoes to start her household routines: feeding the kids, cleaning up, trimming some hedges, etc. so if there was some issue with her, whether it was some kind of spontaneous miscarriage, a life threatening ectopic pregnancy that caused a ruptured Fallopian tube or an unknown assailant who entered her home and attacked her, when did she have time to put on her older gray cloth coat, which is what her neighbour Barbara said she was wearing when she was in the garden walking around with her hands stretched in front of her?

It's also true that today forensics can differentiate between venous blood and menstrual blood; there is less hemoglobin in menstrual blood, but the only tool used back then was identifying blood type. It was type O which was Joan's blood type, the universal blood type and 40% of the world's population has it.

I don't feel any more enlightened than I did the first time I read the thread. I'm still not through it all yet. I still feel a certain disconnect from Joan's husband and the way he always seemed to depersonalize his children calling them 'the boy' or 'the girl'.

Lastly, every post that includes the PDF of the police report seems not to be accessible to me. The link is broken. Is there any other link that still works? Thanks.

Sorry for writing such a long missive. My apologies.
 
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@branmuffin Please don't apologise for the long post! This is an excellent write up. I totally buy your scenario about what happened in the house when Joan just started to bleed. It was so good I could imagine it happening so well, like a movie! But as you said, it still doesn't explain what happened after, and indeed I had never really thought about that grey cloth coat but you're right-that doesn't male sense!
I have often wondered about a certain scenario myself, but without reading everything again I am not sure if it is feasible. I have often wondered if Joan badly injured herself while pruning the the bushes and maybe the red thing her neighbour saw her holding was her own bloody hand/arm. I now significant blood loss can cause disorientation and this might explain why the woman walking around zombie like was clutching her arm/hands to he belly. But still...why not just run across the road to the neighbour to call an ambulance. That bit makes no sense at all.
 
@branmuffin Please don't apologise for the long post! This is an excellent write up. I totally buy your scenario about what happened in the house when Joan just started to bleed. It was so good I could imagine it happening so well, like a movie! But as you said, it still doesn't explain what happened after, and indeed I had never really thought about that grey cloth coat but you're right-that doesn't male sense!
I have often wondered about a certain scenario myself, but without reading everything again I am not sure if it is feasible. I have often wondered if Joan badly injured herself while pruning the the bushes and maybe the red thing her neighbour saw her holding was her own bloody hand/arm. I now significant blood loss can cause disorientation and this might explain why the woman walking around zombie like was clutching her arm/hands to he belly. But still...why not just run across the road to the neighbour to call an ambulance. That bit makes no sense at all.

It doesn't fit that Joan had injured herself or had a miscarriage then dealt with it by disappearing in a mysterious car that was parked at the end of her driveway. Had it been a good Samaritan helping her by taking her to a doctor, that would have been reported.

It seems more likely she was visited at home by someone who assaulted her, then took her away. Because she dropped the children off at the neighbor's it seems possible she knew she was expecting a visitor and didn't want the children around in case there was a problem.

Thanks for the link to the Pinterest page. I hadn't seen some of those photos before. One shows that there was a door that went from inside the garage to the house. I don't recall why that was discussed, but for a long time it was an issue that it was reported there wasn't one. Perhaps someone theorized that a killer had entered the garage and hid there while Joan was away.

Also noteworthy was the presence of blood in the living room and on the front door. I assume this is Joan's blood. She did lose quite a bit, contrary to news and LE reports. I'm trying to figure out if the photo is showing blood spatter on the outside or interior side of the door. Either way, it seems to indicate she wasn't going willingly. Blood would only splatter like that on the door if she were moving around quite a bit or being struck, with blood splattering on the door. It looks like large drops, so possibly dripping blood. I'll have to check on that. There are also photos of blood droplets on the living room floor.

Whoever attacked and kidnapped her gave her some notice that they were coming to visit, but not much. It seems likely it was someone she knew and anticipated the meeting might be unfriendly. JMO If it were just a repair or delivery person, she probably wouldn't have bothered to move the kids out of the house and yard to the neighbors.

@branmuffin, if you look at the Pinterest link above, there's a photo of a table that's overturned in the hallway. It looks like a the type of table people put in that spot. If Joan was being chased or forced out the front door, its possible the table was knocked over in the struggle. Along with blood spatters and the phone ripped from the wall, these are typical signs of a violent struggle and foul play. JMO
 
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there's a photo of a table that's overturned in the hallway.
If I were Joan and I wad running from someone I would probably throw that table aside to impede them.

You're right, I didn't figure the car in that.

The blood being in the living room is very interesting because does it suggest that an attack may have started in there? Perhaps they were in there talking when it became heated. Regarding the blood in the babies room, is it possible this was trailed up by someone who was just checking to make sure there was no one else in the house?

Really, I'm coming back to her adopted family, Nattrass since this explained their easy access, the car and possibly why they had some beers etc
 
Small point regarding beer bottles. Yes, back in 1961, almost all beer and pop bottles had a refundable deposit of about 2 cents on them. And, yes if you were going to save beer bottles to turn in for the deposit, you would usually rinse them out so that they wouldn't stink the place up.

If these beer bottles had NOT been rinsed out, they were likely put there by someone other than Joan.
 
It doesn't fit that Joan had injured herself or had a miscarriage then dealt with it by disappearing in a mysterious car that was parked at the end of her driveway. Had it been a good Samaritan helping her by taking her to a doctor, that would have been reported.

It seems more likely she was visited at home by someone who assaulted her, then took her away. Because she dropped the children off at the neighbor's it seems possible she knew she was expecting a visitor and didn't want the children around in case there was a problem.

Thanks for the link to the Pinterest page. I hadn't seen some of those photos before. One shows that there was a door that went from inside the garage to the house. I don't recall why that was discussed, but for a long time it was an issue that it was reported there wasn't one. Perhaps someone theorized that a killer had entered the garage and hid there while Joan was away.

Also noteworthy was the presence of blood in the living room and on the front door. I assume this is Joan's blood. She did lose quite a bit, contrary to news and LE reports. I'm trying to figure out if the photo is showing blood spatter on the outside or interior side of the door. Either way, it seems to indicate she wasn't going willingly. Blood would only splatter like that on the door if she were moving around quite a bit or being struck, with blood splattering on the door. It looks like large drops, so possibly dripping blood. I'll have to check on that. There are also photos of blood droplets on the living room floor.

Whoever attacked and kidnapped her gave her some notice that they were coming to visit, but not much. It seems likely it was someone she knew and anticipated the meeting might be unfriendly. JMO If it were just a repair or delivery person, she probably wouldn't have bothered to move the kids out of the house and yard to the neighbors.

@branmuffin, if you look at the Pinterest link above, there's a photo of a table that's overturned in the hallway. It looks like a the type of table people put in that spot. If Joan was being chased or forced out the front door, its possible the table was knocked over in the struggle. Along with blood spatters and the phone ripped from the wall, these are typical signs of a violent struggle and foul play. JMO
I think that little overturned wooden table isn't a kitchen table, it's too small and too low. I think it was used as a telephone table where they kept the phone books, maybe for MA and NYC since her husband had business there. Probably menus from pizza joints and Chinese food restaurants and note books too, to jot down information when making a call. Quite possibly it was actually in the corner of the kitchen right under the wall phone.

If Joan's injuries had more to do with an assault rather than a medical issue how did she manage to put on her coat and walk outside running with her arms outstretched? If there was an assailant in the home with her who had caused her grievous bodily harm how did she manage to escape them? Were they injured, too? I can understand that she may have been experiencing anxiety, fear and disordered thinking after being attacked but the only reason I can think of to return to the home is because David was still in his crib. If she exhibited enough clarity of thinking to be concerned about her son why wouldn't she go to her neighbour where there was a working phone and someone who could help her?

There is one caveat I can acknowledge, however, it was her assailant who put the coat on Joan trying to hustle her outside to the car and take off with her but why wouldn't have BB seen another individual outside with her?
 
It doesn't fit that Joan had injured herself or had a miscarriage then dealt with it by disappearing in a mysterious car that was parked at the end of her driveway. Had it been a good Samaritan helping her by taking her to a doctor, that would have been reported.

It seems more likely she was visited at home by someone who assaulted her, then took her away. Because she dropped the children off at the neighbor's it seems possible she knew she was expecting a visitor and didn't want the children around in case there was a problem.

Thanks for the link to the Pinterest page. I hadn't seen some of those photos before. One shows that there was a door that went from inside the garage to the house. I don't recall why that was discussed, but for a long time it was an issue that it was reported there wasn't one. Perhaps someone theorized that a killer had entered the garage and hid there while Joan was away.

Also noteworthy was the presence of blood in the living room and on the front door. I assume this is Joan's blood. She did lose quite a bit, contrary to news and LE reports. I'm trying to figure out if the photo is showing blood spatter on the outside or interior side of the door. Either way, it seems to indicate she wasn't going willingly. Blood would only splatter like that on the door if she were moving around quite a bit or being struck, with blood splattering on the door. It looks like large drops, so possibly dripping blood. I'll have to check on that. There are also photos of blood droplets on the living room floor.

Whoever attacked and kidnapped her gave her some notice that they were coming to visit, but not much. It seems likely it was someone she knew and anticipated the meeting might be unfriendly. JMO If it were just a repair or delivery person, she probably wouldn't have bothered to move the kids out of the house and yard to the neighbors.

@branmuffin, if you look at the Pinterest link above, there's a photo of a table that's overturned in the hallway. It looks like a the type of table people put in that spot. If Joan was being chased or forced out the front door, its possible the table was knocked over in the struggle. Along with blood spatters and the phone ripped from the wall, these are typical signs of a violent struggle and foul play. JMO

What source did you read that there was blood in the living room and on the front door? I can't recall reading that. Do you have a source of the police report that's mentioned in a PDF? Every time I click on a link there's nothing there.
 

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