MA MA - Joan Webster, 25, Boston, 28 Nov 1981

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by eve carson, Jun 25, 2017.

  1. Rocky1

    Rocky1 Well-Known Member

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    So, if Joan was targeted, Someone would have had to know she would be at the airport at that time. Then she would have had to walk directly to that specific cab, at the right time, because I am sure many others at the time were also looking for cabs.
    And what's the motive?
     
  2. OldSteve

    OldSteve Active Member

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    Yes, and so often when a person is guilty of committing the crime, they provide way to much detail like this.
    How much of what the cabbie has said can be corroborated? Is it possible the other man in the cab with Joan was left off at some point and Joan was then left alone with the cabbie to continue on... and was then taken?
     
  3. Rocky1

    Rocky1 Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking the same thing. Too many details. To me, it would make more sense that this was a random act, and the cabbie may have been involved. In this scenario, Joan isn't getting in a non marked car with a total stranger , so no red flags, However..
    That means the cabbie would have to explain why he's out of service for say 3 plus hours and racking up miles To Hamilton and back. I'm not sure back then if cabbies turned in start/stop mileage at the end of their shifts or not. Even if he didn't, how does he explain this to dispatch? I ask this assuming there was a dispatch, and radios.
    Then, somehow he'd have to subdue her, or somehow threaten her (gun?) because I am sure she'd be asking questions as to why they are heading north, instead of west.
    Then there's the suit case in his trunk, after she is killed. Does he unload that back at the cab stand in front of everyone, and put it in his own car? I guess he could have unloaded it someplace before he got back to the cab stand, and picked it up when he was in his own car.
    I would think he'd know he would have been one of the first interviewed by police, especially if he was the last person seen with her.
    There's also the timeline. If she's in his cab, at, say 10:15, does he get through his shift at 11:00? That wouldn't leave enough time to drive to Hamilton, kill and bury her, then drive back before 11:00 imo.
    Compare this with the rest of facts of the story I have read so far, It is twisted to me.
    As Eve has said. Polombo lived in Lynn at the time, and Joans purse was found along the road at the Lynn/Saugus line. Hamilton is not far from Lynn, and he may have known the area where her body was found. He had connections to Logan and the Bus station as well, as Eve stated. From what I have dug up on this guy, he wasn't your average State Cop, did lots of undercover work in an area that was saturated with with mob crime and crooked cops. I believe he was killed on his motorcycle in 1998 .
    Eve. Can you be more specific as to where her body was found? Was it private property? If so, do you know who owned it?
     
  4. ebfortin76

    ebfortin76 Member

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    Why would he come forward with saying he saw her if he has something to do with it? Doesn't make much sense to me. There is no insentive to do so.

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
     
  5. eve carson

    eve carson Verified Family - Joan Webster

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    Thank you everyone. Let me say from the bottom of my heart how much it means for all of you to share your thoughts and care about Joan. Hopefully, I can cover all the questions. I do believe her case can be resolved.

    The cabbie was interviewed early on. This situation was a bit out of the ordinary. When something does not go as planned for whatever reason, memory kicks in, at least I know it does for me. The man exchanged words with the cabbie. The man had a noticeably heavy suitcase, Luggage was removed from the cab and Joan changed vehicles with the man. The dispatcher came over the radio to see if the cabbie was having a problem. The dispatcher later affirmed it with police. The detail in the report seems appropriate and credible.

    Someone had to know the area in Hamilton, MA. This area is still remote today. You would have to know your way around in there, especially after dark. The area was known to law enforcement because of various activity in the area. You would not just happen across this spot.

    Cabs line up outside a terminal. Joan would have walked up to the next cab in line. She knocked on the window and asked to go to Cambridge. Tim Burke distorts that in his publication suggesting Paradiso was the cabbie. Burke took a detail out of a police report and projected it on someone else.

    If the man driving the blue vehicle left the man with Joan at another drop, it suggests the man had no involvement. This was all over the news. I believe someone would have said something if they just happened to cross paths with Joan.

    The cabbie’s level of detail does not seem excess. The dispatcher affirmed the exchange of words and the pair changing vehicles. The witness that provided “too many” details was the state’s snitch Robert Bond. Bond was not believable.

    You could not drive to Hamilton and back to the airport by 11 pm. The official word from authorities was that Joan was not noticed leaving the airport, she just vanished. Burke’s theory through Bond was that Paradiso drove a gypsy cab. Paradiso did not drive any cab, but the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] vehicle might have been a gypsy cab, or it was a private car. That explains no time records or dispatch.

    Joan’s remains were found on Chebacco Road. It is a heavily wooded and remote area. Motorcycle gangs hung out in the area and there was some known criminal activity. The road narrows to just wider than a single lane, gravel and rutted. There are still only a few houses back in there. The grave was on private property. It was a ways from the house that sat up on a bluff. Joan was on a low part of the property, in a natural basin sometimes flooded with water. The Hamilton PD did patrol out there. One officer had been there earlier that day. He indicated the power company recently thinned out branches. There were cut logs on the ground that covered the gravesite.

    There was a huge search to find Joan. Rewards were offered. I think most decent people would say something if they thought they might have seen her. Joan said the man at the airport was with her. They switched cars together. It does not make sense to me that the man was dropped off separately. If he had a different destination, he would see Joan arrived safely at her dorm and then proceed on.

    It’s easy to second guess or over analyze. Here are the facts. Joan was seen at the airport with a man that she said was with her. The man exchanged words with the cabbie. Joan and the man switched vehicles. The Town Taxi dispatcher heard the disruption and checked on the cabbie. Joan disappeared. The lead was suppressed. She was found brutally devalued and murdered 8 ½ years later. The cabbie provided enough detail to identify it was Joan and enough information to know the man was not Leonard Paradiso. The authorities deliberately targeted a scapegoat with a verifiably false scenario.

    I will respond to another post when I have more time. Some really good observations, questions, and thoughts are exactly what it takes to get to the truth.
     
  6. OldSteve

    OldSteve Active Member

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    Yes, it doesn't make sense, yet surprisingly, I've seen this happen in other cases where a perp steps forward for no reason... don't know why, perhaps they fear LE will find them and they want to get their story out first...and by doing so without incentive they figure they will be believed...
     
  7. OldSteve

    OldSteve Active Member

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    I use to follow the disappearance of Maura Murray, even referred to Joan Webster (for reason I can't remember now); anyway, one theory was that Maura had gotten a ride from someone where her (Maura's) car was found. This theory was always countered by, if did get a ride, why with all the publicity had whomever gave her the ride not come forward.

    My thought was that he was left off first, leaving Joan alone with the cabbie and vulnerable.
     
  8. eve carson

    eve carson Verified Family - Joan Webster

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    The authorities from multiple departments conducted extensive interviews in the days after Joan was reported missing. That is different than someone reading or hearing something and then coming forwaard. The cabbie at the airport that provided information is known. His cab was identified and his hours. I don't believe the Town Taxi driver had anything to do with Joan's disappearance. He saw something and fortunately was interviewed.

    The driver of the second vehicle is not known. Did the man with Joan exit the cab before Joan and leave her alone with that driver? I doubt it. That man is key to all of this. Joan said he was with her and voluntarily switched cars at the man's direction. That is the moment that Joan was put in peril.

    The Town Taxi cabbie was a regular citizen who had information. It seems more likely the man and the second driver were both involved in what happened to Joan.
     
  9. frozydozy

    frozydozy New Member

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    Eve,

    I have a few questions to ask. I’ve tried finding the answers, but unfortunately, I’ve come up empty-handed. Moreover, I hope you don’t think that I’m hijacking your thread. Simply put, I’m another set of eyes who are trying to bring the darkness into the light. In other words, I’m trying to help you.

    1. On the night of Joan’s abduction, Lynn was being ravaged by an out of control fire. Accordingly, routes 107 and 1A were blocked northbound. It’s likely that southbound traffic experienced the same problem. Joan’s body was found buried in a shallow grave year’s later off Chebacco Rd, in Hamilton.

    Question:

    Are there any documents/reports (scientific, forensic, coroner’s reports, law enforcement, etc.) that precisely classify the date of Joan’s murder?

    If routes 107 and 1A were blocked off that night, it’s likely that Joan was still alive that night, and perhaps the next day. Perhaps even longer than that. If so, where was she, and with whom? Did the police follow up on this state of affairs?

    2. As mentioned above, Joan’s body was found buried in a shallow grave in 1990.

    Question:

    If Joan wasn’t murdered on the night of November 28, 1981, but was alive for a period after that, it’s possible that she was murdered somewhere else, and the body subsequently moved to where it was eventually found. Thus,

    What was the condition of the location where her body was eventually found?

    In other words:

    a. Ground state
    b. Foliage state
    c. State of the plastic bag she was wrapped in
    d. Body parts (scattered or in one place). I believe her skull was found away from the body. It’s indicative of animal predation. What about the rest of her body?
     
  10. eve carson

    eve carson Verified Family - Joan Webster

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    Hi Frozydozy,

    You make some very interesting comments in your post that are very insightful.

    When you go through a tragedy like this, grief is suspended. You continue to cycle through a range of emotions, but without closure. I did not know I had so many tears, but I have learned I had many more reliving this case. To get into the source records to see what was going on has been devastating. It is more than frightening to absorb who all was involved in some way.

    I continue to take the proper steps to work with proper authorities. The determination to seek justice for Joan is in the hands of a very few people. Everyone reading this should shudder at the destructive forces when authority is abused. It has had a ripple effect that has caused irreparable damage for some.

    The system was broken during all of this; that is abundantly clear in recovered documents. The system is still dysfunctional to hide malfeasance. However, I do believe Joan’s case can be resolved. You are spot on when you say that murderers can live right in our midst, they lead normal looking lives. Some are very skilled at concealing a much darker side.

    A man somehow connects with Joan. She knows him. He maneuvers her to a different vehicle. She disappears and the lead gets buried. The whole apparatus goes after a scapegoat to shield the offender. That scenario as it played out supports premeditation. Someone with that malice would take measures not to be identified. Some sort of disguise is very reasonable to consider. However, there are some things not as easily disguised. The man’s size. The man with Joan was not Palombo, but Palombo was involved. I think it would be more likely Palombo was in the second car. He may have been hired or bribed to go along with it. Someone suggested before he may have been present and unaware of the final outcome before it happened. Maybe he was coerced to keep quiet. Those are absolutely methods Palombo used with other witnesses.

    As I began piecing this together, I realized if Joan knew her killer, which is more often the case, I might have known him, too. That has given me many sleepless nights. The darkerside of people will show up in other relationships. Were there other crimes? Someone has to be close enough to make those observations. If Joan knew something that threatened dark secrets, she was vulnerable to someone disconnected enough to cause her harm. A good example is Stacy Peterson. I had no knowledge at the time of anything that would put Joan in that position of risk. The brutality of her murder shows enormous rage. That seems very personal to me.

    The motive? That’s always an important question. It is hard to see into the mind of someone so evil. I stumbled across something very upsetting. There were other allegations, other possible victims. The reaction I received addressing concerns is not something I will ignore. There are some who would like me to die. Some threats were anonymous, others from identified persons.

    Whether those concerns have some connection to Joan’s case or not, they certainly led me to turn the stones exposing a terrible stench.
     
  11. Rocky1

    Rocky1 Well-Known Member

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    Very good points. Maybe she wasn't killed that night, and the purse was disgarded a day or two later in the marsh. If that's the case, maybe the blue car started heading towards Cambridge but made a detour before it got there to another location. If that's the case, my bets are that she was killed before they found the purse, although I have nothing base that on.
    On the other hand, he/they could have traveled up I 95, or Rt.1 through Topsfield to Hamilton, Spent the night burying her, drove back to Lynn the next day (if it was Polumbo) and tossed out the purse on the way back to Logan where he was working.
    What's the motive if this was premeditated?
     
  12. Rocky1

    Rocky1 Well-Known Member

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    Eve.
    I posted my post before I read your last, so disregard my question about motive.
    Another question. Is it "Polumbo" or "Palumbo" I have seen it spelled both ways.
     
  13. eve carson

    eve carson Verified Family - Joan Webster

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    Hi Frozydozy & Rocky1,

    I welcome the questions and the help. The Great Lynn Fire of 1981 started in the early morning hours on November 28, 1981, about 2:30 am. By time Joan landed that night, this was a 12-alarm fire out of control. Routes 107 and 1A were blocked as you entered into Lynn. You could still travel north on 107 from the airport. The barricades were further north than the location of the purse.

    Palombo lived just west of the impacted area. He would veer left onto Broadway from 107 to his address. He lived a short distance from the entrance to Route 128 that goes to the gravesite. Palombo could easily avoid the congestion created by the fire. Travelling back to the airport, he would be able to get back on 107 before the spot where the purse was tossed. I have driven this several times.

    I do not have the pathology reports. They are exempt by statute to an FOIA. I did speak with an officer involved in the recovery. The first layer of logs covering the grave was greatly decomposed. A second layer of logs was added at a later time. The body had been there a long time, since she disappeared. I believe Joan was murdered someplace else and taken to the gravesite to dispose of her. It is dark and heavily wooded. There would be too great a chance of missing something, any item of Joan’s. Nothing was found there at all except the two jewelry items on the skeleton.

    I do have the report of the search and recovery. Her skull had surfaced probably due to weather and animal activity. The trash bag had broken open. The officer involved in the recovery believed the bag was necessary to contain the blood from her wound. She would have bled out very quickly. That is further indication she was transported to the site after she was killed.

    A couple of bones determined to be human were found during the search conducted the next week. Officers were about to give up when an officer reached into a decomposed log and pulled out a vertebrae. They had just cleared a large accumulation of leaves from that spot. The grave was found after that. Most of the skeleton was recovered. Roughly ¼ of her jaw was not recovered, the rest was there. She was identified through dentals.

    Joan was discovered in April 1990. The ground was wet, a lot of limbs and leaves in various states of decomposition congested the area. Foliage was not out yet, perhaps just budding. The condition of the site at the time was before a hard freeze. There was a very heavy snowstorm a week after Joan disappeared.

    The suitcase was not found until January 29, 1982. They can place the suitcase in the identified locker as of 9 am November 29, 1981, the next morning. The date was determined by records for the locker keys. The purse was found on December 2, 1981. I believe Joan was murdered soon after she left Logan. The suitcase is a good indication of that. The purse may have been tossed that night or the next morning, but it was a few days before someone was in there to spot it.

    Unfortunately, there were cops on the take in Boston at that time. Either that, or he was afraid to reveal what he knew for fear of some negative reprisal. His knowledge came out in other ways, through Bond.
     
  14. eve carson

    eve carson Verified Family - Joan Webster

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    There are several different spellings of the name, but the MSP officer involved in Joan's case is Andrew C. Palombo.
     
  15. OldSteve

    OldSteve Active Member

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    When I say cabbie, I was referring to the second cab driver.
     
  16. frozydozy

    frozydozy New Member

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    Eve and Rocky1,

    Thank you for showing an interest in my comments. Perhaps some good news may still come out of all of this.

    I will now dissect your posts, and I will reply to both your comments (the more significant ones, that is) in the order you made them. I apologize for the lengthy discourse, but I don’t see any other way of doing this. I ask that you read it through.

    “When you go through a tragedy like this, grief is suspended. You continue to cycle through a range of emotions but without closure. I did not know I had so many tears, but I have learned I had many more reliving this case. To get into the source records to see what was going on has been devastating. It is more than frightening to absorb who all was involved in some way.”

    I cannot begin to tell how I feel for you. I lost a loved one only a few years back to the dreaded “C,” and still struggle to cope with it all. However, it’s not comparable to the emotional and painful rollercoaster ride you’ve been on. You are a strong-willed woman, Eve. Your resilience, dedication, and unwillingness to give up, despite all the adversities, threats, and humiliation you’ve faced along the way, is a breath of fresh air. There should be more people like you on this planet. Folks who are willing to keep digging, and digging, and digging, until they reach the mother lode, are very rare. A very rare bread indeed! I take my hat off to you. Literally!

    “I continue to take the proper steps to work with proper authorities. The determination to seek justice for Joan is in the hands of a very few people. Everyone reading this should shudder at the destructive forces when authority is abused. It has had a ripple effect that has caused irreparable damage for some.”

    You are right. It’s the only way to proceed forth. I know at times we’re critical and judgmental of law enforcement, in other words, the apparatus, however, without them, justice cannot be adequately served. I hope and pray that the folks you’re instilling so much trust in will ultimately deliver the results and answers you deserve. Of course, let’s not forget justice. Joan’s deserving of all the justice she can get.

    “A man somehow connects with Joan. She knows him. He maneuvers her to a different vehicle. She disappears, and the lead gets buried. The whole apparatus goes after a scapegoat to shield the offender. That scenario as it played out supports premeditation. Someone with that malice would take measures not to be identified. Some sort of disguise is very reasonable to consider. However, there are some things not as easily disguised. The man’s size. The man with Joanwas not Palombo, but Palombo was involved. I think it would be more likely Palombo was in the second car. He may have been hired or bribed to go along with it. Someone suggested before he may have been present and unaware of the final outcome before it happened. Maybe he was coerced to keep quiet. Those are absolutely methods Palombo used with other witnesses. “

    Very powerful statements. They do indeed support premeditation. However, there’s a bee that keeps buzzing in my ear. Please forgive me for what I’m about to say. If you find it offensive, let me know, and I will ask the moderators to delete the forthcoming paragraph. It’s not my intention to upset you further. Borrowing a line from Tim Robbins, I don’t mean to be obtuse. I continue reiterating the fact that I’m trying to provide a different way of thinking going forth, without stepping away from what you already know, coupled with the pertinent information (police records, statements, reports, FOIA documents, etc.) you have at your disposal. Everything I know and read regarding Joan’s case has been information you’ve shared on websites like the one we’re on.

    Here goes:

    What was so special about the person Joan Webster that her cold case runs rings around the Watergate affair, both JFK’s and Martin Luther King’s assassinations? According to all the information, I’ve read, there are more twists and turns in this cold case than on the 800 pages that make up the pathetic Watergate document. And trust me when I tell you that I’ve read it. You see Eve, that’s the little bee that keeps buzzing in my ear. Joan Webster was, and please excuse my brevity, a nobody. Although she was the daughter of wealthy CIA operatives, I can’t see her being a threat to domestic or international affairs. Was she that big a threat that she was deemed unworthy to live, get married, and have children? The three above mentioned examples exemplify the government’s attitude toward foreign invaders both domestic and abroad. Two were assassinated, one of them a president, the other a Baptist minister and activist, while the other, a Commander-in-Chief, resigned in disgrace. Joan Webster wasn’t trying to unite a racially divided United States, nor was she about to break-in to the Democratic National Committee headquarters. She was merely a student at one of the country’s leading universities who sought after a career in architecture. Thus, why would Palombo and all his cronies, want her dead? In a previous post, I mentioned the possibility that she knew something that could derail “a” career. Be that as it may, it was unlikely serious enough that that, or something else, was deemed necessary to be punishable by a penalty of death. There’s no denying the fact that everything about Joan’s murder alludes to a possible cover-up. However, have you ever pondered on the likelihood that it may just all be a big coincidence? Palombo or one of his partners in crime cannot without a shadow of a doubt be placed at the airport on the night of her disappearance. Palombo or one of his partners in crime cannot without a shadow of a doubt be linked to the second car that night. It’s all speculation and nothing more. The cab driver, although reportedly a credible witness, and the only witness to have provided the authorities with a description of the individual seen that night with Joan, which led to a sketch being withheld by LEA, could not provide additional information regarding the second vehicle. That sketch has since then been released to the public (I think by you), yet nobody’s been apprehended. You say it wasn’t a disguised Palombo and I agree with you. Palombo was 6’4” and according to the cab driver’s statements, the suspect 5’7”. However, by trial and error, over the years I’ve learned not to rely heavily on eyewitness accounts regarding height. There are many convoluted arguments regarding one’s height. And now is not the time or place to debate the problem. However, I will say this; if the cab driver was on the curb while the suspect on the asphalt, or vice versa, don’t you think it’s possible that he got the height wrong? Perhaps the individual was 6 feet tall. It’s not difficult to get someone’s height wrong under the latter circumstances. And during a cold and blustery night when all you want to do is get inside the vehicle as quickly as possible because of the cold weather. Thus, can any solid credence be placed on the cab driver’s height calculation? It takes a brave soul to say yes. And lastly, how can you dismiss the possibility that Joan was abducted by somebody else besides the authorities and for more trivial reasons? Not that murder is trivial. I condemn any murderous activity. We are after all talking about taking human life here. What if her murder was part of a bigger plan that not necessarily involved the CIA or law enforcement?

    “As I began piecing this together, I realized if Joan knew her killer, which is more often the case, I might have known him, too. That has given me many sleepless nights. The darkerside of people will show up in other relationships. Were there other crimes? Someone has to be close enough to make those observations. If Joan knew something that threatened dark secrets, she was vulnerable to someone disconnected enough to cause her harm. A good example is Stacy Peterson. I had no knowledge at the time of anything that would put Joan in that position of risk. The brutality of her murder shows enormous rage. That seems very personal to me.”

    That is the only correct FACT about this case. That’s the KEY to solving this murder. Find the man, grab hold of the twine, follow its path, and it will lead you to the responsible parties involved in her death. Joan knew her abductor. Not necessarily her killer but she knew her abductor! The chance you knew him is little. I find it highly unlikely that Joan would have confided in you who was part of her circle of friends. The abductor didn’t necessarily have to be in her immediate circle of friends. University campuses are large open places. Kids usually know a friend of a friend by sight. Perhaps that friend of a friend greeted her before but wasn’t automatically included in her “immediate” circle of friends. And that’s enough of a status quo to warrant her getting in the vehicle with the man that, unbeknownst to her, or us, was about to abduct her that fateful night. She had seen him before. Thus she was comfortable enough to trust him that night. Don’t you think if someone you’ve seen or greeted at the university campus approached you outside the airport, struck up a chat, and informed you that they were going in the same direction, and offered you a ride, that you wouldn’t accept the kind gesture? I know I would, although my father gave me $200 that same night. My closest friends have friends. Not all their friends are my friends, but I know them through their friendship. I categorically guarantee that I would get in a vehicle with any of them without blinking an eyelid. There’s a level of humanistic trust that we all find comforting when in this kind of situation. Joan was carefree and a trustworthy. It’s the reason why I find the Paradiso abduction claim ludicrous and nauseating. He stank of both old whiskey and fish. There’s not a snowball chance in hell that Joan would get in the car with him. To get in the car with him, she would have to be manhandled. If she was forced, she would scream and put up a fight. However, Joan went willingly like a lamb to the slaughter. And unbeknownst to her. Poor soul.

    Blunt force trauma would undoubtedly have contributed to Joan’s demise. It does not necessarily mean enormous rage. But, the coroner’s report has been withheld. Therefore, it’s impossible to verify if she fell foul to more heinous activities, like stabbing or shooting, which are, in fact, stronger indications of rage killing. Specifically, is she was stabbed or shot multiple times. If the killer stabbed her with a short knife, it’s likely that none of her bones would be scored. Thus, the coroner would find no evidence supporting a stabbing. Strangulation is out of the question because it will never be proven. Unless the perpetrator is apprehended and reveals the sequence of events that led to her murder. Shooting is a possibility, but there would need to be some level of luck involved for the bullet(s) not to damage bones. If she was shot, it would be shown in the coroner’s report. However, thus far, it cannot be verified.

    “The motive? That’s always an important question. It is hard to see into the mind of someone so evil. I stumbled across something very upsetting. There were other allegations, other possible victims. The reaction I received addressing concerns is not something I will ignore. There are some who would like me to die. Some threats were anonymous, others from identified persons.”

    Motive takes me back to my earlier analogy regarding Watergate, JFK, and King. In other words, I believe there was none! Evil is all around us, sometimes under our roof. It’s not until years later that this malevolent presence is revealed. Perhaps via the police knocking at the front door. I don’t know what seems to be upsetting, but I will say, be careful. These bastards have no empathy or emotions.

    Rocky1:

    “Very good points. Maybe she wasn't killed that night, and the purse was disgarded a day or two later in the marsh. If that's the case, maybe the blue car started heading towards Cambridge but made a detour before it got there to another location. If that's the case, my bets are that she was killed before they found the purse, although I have nothing base that on.
    On the other hand, he/they could have traveled up I 95, or Rt.1 through Topsfield to Hamilton, Spent the night burying her, drove back to Lynn the next day (if it was Polumbo) and tossed out the purse on the way back to Logan where he was working.”

    Thank you for your input. You make excellent points yourself. If there was another way of getting to Hamilton that night, then it’s possible that Joan was murdered a few hours after she left the airport.

    Eve:

    “They can place the suitcase in the identified locker as of 9 am November 29, 1981, the next morning. The date was determined by records for the locker keys. I believe Joan was murdered soon after she left Logan. The suitcase is a good indication of that.”

    Plausible but not certain. If Joan was murdered soon after leaving Logan, how was she killed? Blunt force trauma causing a 2”x 4” hole to the right side of her head requires maximum inertia. It’s impossible to swing a bat or something of that sort inside a vehicle. Therefore, was Joan perhaps strangled, shot, or stabbed? If still alive, was the coup de gras delivered at the locale? If she was wrapped in the trash bag, it indicates she was bleeding. Once again, this makes the acts of stabbing or shooting highly probable. The driver didn’t want blood in the vehicle. Blood can be forensically linked to the victim. DNA was in its infancy in the 80s, but it was available. The killer new this. Placing the suitcase in the locker the next morning doesn’t automatically indicate Joan was killed the day before. It’s likely but debatable. If there were two cars involved, and its just hearsay, which vehicle carried the bags? The car with Joan or the other?
     
  17. frozydozy

    frozydozy New Member

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    Sorry guys but How do I edit my previous post? I made a few spelling mistakes (bread for breed) that I need to correct. Can somebody help me?
     
  18. Rocky1

    Rocky1 Well-Known Member

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    You can only edit a post for a certain time after it's made. Don't quote me, but I believe it is one hour.
    As far as both the baseball bat and the plastic bag scenario go, This is my thought.
    She may have been led out of the car, and then hit with a bat, rather than inside the car. I doubt she was hit in the car, because as you say, the killer would not be able to get a swing to cause that type of damage, along with not wanting blood in the car.
    If she was led out of the car in Hamilton, and killed and buried there, they why put her in the bag? I think she was killed elsewhere, and either put in the bag to contain the blood, or to conceal her body so nobody would have seen someone loading her in the car to drive her to Hamilton.
     
  19. frozydozy

    frozydozy New Member

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    Hi Rocky1,

    Thank you for the heads up regarding editing of posts. It sounds ludicrous that after an hour we can’t go back and edit our work. Perhaps the moderators should think about reviewing the process. I don’t like leaving untidy forum posts, and I hate spelling mistakes. Most times I’m pressed for time and don’t review post before uploading them to the website. Anyway, thank you for your help.

    Now, please allow me to comment on some of your points.

    You said, and I quote:

    “As far as both the baseball bat and the plastic bag scenario go, This is my thought.
    She may have been led out of the car, and then hit with a bat, rather than inside the car. I doubt she was hit in the car, because as you say, the killer would not be able to get a swing to cause that type of damage, along with not wanting blood in the car.”

    It makes sense. It certainly does. However, I find it extremely unlikely that on the night of the abduction, the individual stopped the vehicle somewhere along his preferred route, herded Joan out of the car, and bludgeoned her to death. And you’ll understand why when you read my reply to your next point.

    “If she was led out of the car in Hamilton, and killed and buried there, they why put her in the bag? I think she was killed elsewhere, and either put in the bag to contain the blood, or to conceal her body so nobody would have seen someone loading her in the car to drive her to Hamilton.”

    Although Joan fell prey to nefarious circumstances that she could not foresee that fateful night, she wasn’t stupid. Joan was a highly intelligent young lady. She trusted the individual well enough to get in the car with him. Thus far, and reading all Eve’s reporting, there was no indication that Joan was forcibly abducted and put in the vehicle. We have the cab driver’s testimony. That disproves the forcible abduction angle. She got in the car out of her own free will. Logan’s a busy airport. Especially after a Thanksgiving weekend. There were people everywhere. If Joan felt that she was forcibly abducted, she would have put up a fight, and drawn attention to herself. Her abductee was also aware of this fact. Therefore, it’s the reason I believe he approached Joan, struck up a conversation, and during that conversation told her that he was heading in the same direction, and she was welcomed to ride along. Furthermore, I’m confident they would have discussed saving money on a cab fee. It’s another positive indicator linking Joan to the fact she accepted his seemingly friendly gesture. And, once again, she accepted the offer because she knew the person. Perhaps not from her immediate circle of friends but via some of her university colleagues. In laymen terms, by sight.

    It’s probable that there were other people in the vehicle. Once in the car, Joan had no idea what was about to happen. Subsequently, she became aware of the fact that the vehicle wasn’t going in the direction of Perkins Hall. From here on, I trust that it’s safe to say it’s a blur. Everybody will agree on that. Nobody but Joan and the perpetrator(s) know the sequence of events that henceforth took place that night. We can hypothesize until the cows come home, but that won’t help the case in any way, shape or form. Be that as it may, there’s no harm or foul theorizing what took place. But our theory must be logical and incisive.

    I believe Joan was either strangled, stabbed, or shoot, and subsequently clubbed to death. The clubbing took place outside the vehicle. Everybody will agree that the latter is a watertight scenario. When Joan realized that the car she was traveling in was headed somewhere else besides Perkin’s Hall, that’s when all the commotion started. She began questioning what was going on, and all hell broke loose. The man sitting with her on the back seat did the dirty deed. Perhaps he strangled her, but not sufficiently enough to kill her. Joan passed out. She later awoke to find her hands and feet bound with rope. Perhaps she was also gagged. This would keep her quiet. Because of the fire, there would be a high police presence in the area. The individuals couldn’t take any chances. It’s another reason I believe that Joan wasn’t taken to another location, clubbed to death, placed in a trash bag in the boot of the car, and driven to her final resting place in Hamilton. And why? Because there were cops and firemen everywhere! And most routes were partial if not completely blocked. If they did, and if that’s precisely what materialized, they were brave men. In other word’s, they were playing a game of Russian Roulette.

    Joan’s abduction demonstrates that some meticulous planning took place before the event. This wasn’t your run of the mill abduction. The idea to abduct Joan wasn’t contrived that night. Everything had been systematically organized, planned, and carried out with military precision. I find it highly unlikely that the individuals were prepared to test fate by killing Joan along the way. Now, it’s possible that Joan was taken to another location, perhaps a house kept alive for a few days, and subsequently murdered. This scenario validates the trash bag found in the shallow grave. It also validates the likelihood that she wasn’t killed that night, but sometime later. And then taken to Chebacco Rd. The driver used the trash bag because he didn’t want blood in his car.
     
  20. eve carson

    eve carson Verified Family - Joan Webster

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    I am so thankful for the kind words and support, but most importantly for the desire to find the truthful answers. I have developed a thick skin during the course of this, so I am not upset by your candor.

    I believe most of those in our law enforcement and legal communities are dedicated professionals. I saw evidence of that in the records of those who truly were looking for the answers. It doesn’t take many bad apples with other agendas to disembowel justice. If they are in positions to control the perceptions, evil prevails.

    I agree with your observations about an eyewitness description. Many factors contribute to the cabbie’s perception of the man’s height. Where each man was standing, how tall was the cabbie, posture. I don’t take the height as a hard and fast identifier. However, Palombo was 6’4” and Paradiso 6’2”. Both of them were well over 200 pounds. The man with Joan was described as approximately 5’7” and 160 pounds. The cabbie's description of Joan was very accurate, so there is some point of reference. The variance is too great.

    Joan was just a regular person. I don’t see her as a threat to national or international security. You are correct about all the twists and turns in the case. The most important thing I take away and focus on is the mentality of intelligence trained parents. There is a very different mindset. I don’t see any evidence Joan posed a threat to Palombo, or Tammaro. It is more likely she never crossed paths with them before. It is more probable they were influenced to act by the real offender, the man that maneuvered Joan into the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] car perhaps. I think it almost goes without saying, Joan knew something that threatened someone.

    I think the abduction was the calculation of the man with Joan and authorities aided and abetted. The fact authorities concealed the lead from the start and continued down an insane explanation supports their involvement. Palombo and Tammaro were involved in crafting the statement with Bond that contained the correct manner of death and correct details years before Joan surfaced. The man that maneuvered Joan into the other car is the one with the secrets and felt threatened.

    The cover up has been too deliberate to think this is all coincidence. I am not big on coincidence when it shows up in such abundance.

    I absolutely am following the twine and documenting it carefully. I know who knew what and when, I can see the influence, I can see the lies, and believe the truth will come out. A lot of people, for different reasons would like to stifle it. I have had some of the most idiotic things said to me, it would make your mouth drop open in disbelief. It is insulting how condescending authorities can be to one’s intelligence, just accept what you are told without question. That came in tandem with the advice not to probe deeply.

    I agree Joan knew her abductor and he may not have been the one to land the blow. She had to be outside the vehicle to land a blow of that force. If Joan had been injured by another device, gun or knife, she would not have been in an upright position where it was possible to inflict the blow, and it would not be necessary. That was a full on swing. She died instantly. You can speculate she was hit when she was down, but that does not make sense to me and I believe the injury to her skull would not show the same pattern of injury on her skull. The manner of death was determined to be the trauma to her skull. The manner of death is actually a good indicator of forensic knowledge. It is difficult, if not impossible, to trace a bat, tire iron, limb, or whatever it was. It’s easily disposable. The methods are used in “professional” hits.

    I don’t know if Joan would take a ride late at night with someone she knew casually or through a friend. She had already solicited the Town Taxi. The man with her caused some disruption over a heavy bag. I myself would not. I would say you go on, I have my ride.

    You are correct, evil is all around us. However, I still think there is a motive. Most people just don’t think the way a disturbed and evil mind does. Thank God.

    It is impossible to determine an exact time of death. The time frame was short. Items were disposed as early as the next morning. I don’t believe Joan was killed at the Hamilton site. I have been to the area. Too dark for the precision of removing items, clothing, being accurate with the blow. There are finer points that may never be known, but a lot has been learned to narrow the scope of what happened.

    The individual who is key to this was the man that maneuvered Joan into the second car.
     

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