MA - Lindsay Clancy, Strangled 3 Children in Murder/Suicide Attempt, Duxbury, Jan 2023

fred&edna

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iamshadow21

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While reading about PPP, I came across information about a 2004 case regarding Dena Schlosser (which was new to me). It's horrendous and I can hardly get it out of my head. Just sharing as I thought some brave souls might find it interesting regarding mental health and PPP, etc.


‘We talk about our memories:’ Child-killers Dena Schlosser, Andrea Yates find solace in friendship
Thank you, that was really interesting. I'm currently rereading The Long Shadow of Small Ghosts. There are good nonfiction works, books, articles and documentaries, about these kind of crimes. Ones where it isn't clear cut. Where there's room for both empathy for the killers and horror for their actions. It's uncomfortable, because we want it to be simple, we want to put an offender in a box and know exactly how to feel about them and what they did. Cases like this one, the cases of Yates and Schlosser, and the case of Rubio and Camacho (the case that's the focus of the book I'm reading) force us to sit with that discomfort, that dissonance. With the realisation that things can be both utterly reprehensible and understandable in their nigh inevitability, at the same time. With the realisation that people can deserve punishment and imprisonment and also deep compassion, protection, and treatment, at the same time.

Thank you again for the link. I can highly recommend The Long Shadow of Small Ghosts, if you ever feel like an equally compelling read.
 

BrownRice

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BrownRice

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Thank you, that was really interesting. I'm currently rereading The Long Shadow of Small Ghosts. There are good nonfiction works, books, articles and documentaries, about these kind of crimes. Ones where it isn't clear cut. Where there's room for both empathy for the killers and horror for their actions. It's uncomfortable, because we want it to be simple, we want to put an offender in a box and know exactly how to feel about them and what they did. Cases like this one, the cases of Yates and Schlosser, and the case of Rubio and Camacho (the case that's the focus of the book I'm reading) force us to sit with that discomfort, that dissonance. With the realisation that things can be both utterly reprehensible and understandable in their nigh inevitability, at the same time. With the realisation that people can deserve punishment and imprisonment and also deep compassion, protection, and treatment, at the same time.

Thank you again for the link. I can highly recommend The Long Shadow of Small Ghosts, if you ever feel like an equally compelling read.
Thanks for the book recommendation! I tried to download on Hoopla but need to wait since it’s unavailable with my library.
 

iamshadow21

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Thanks for the book recommendation! I tried to download on Hoopla but need to wait since it’s unavailable with my library.
Maybe try on Scribd? I have a subscription, but I know there's a certain amount of things you can read on there for free.
 

AzPistonsGirl

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iluvmua

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GRT

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Good! Let her languish in her own prison forever.

Justice for her 3 kids

Casey Anthony was also a "good" mom according to her friends and look what happened.

I feel the same way. She was a nurse, she knew (or should have known) about the side effects of the drugs she was taking. She can't claim ignorance.

I really have a hard time thinking about the children being strangled with exercise bands--and that they were still around their necks. To me, that would be a very slow and excruciatingly painful death. I can't imagine their fear, pain, and terror.

Her husband may forgive her but he deserves better than caring for a paraplegic that killed his children for the rest of his life. He needs to move on (JMOO) and choose better next time.

All MOO, but I'm not in a forgiving mood.
 

shinimeggie

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Good! Let her languish in her own prison forever.

Justice for her 3 kids

Casey Anthony was also a "good" mom according to her friends and look what happened.

People who can't walk aren't 'languishing in their own prison'.

I know you mean her in particular, but it does make it sound like being disabled is somehow a prison, or something someone deserves, or means someone is living a lesser life.

She needs to go to prison for real, walking or otherwise, but being disabled isn't its own form of prison or punishment.
 

iluvmua

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I feel the same way. She was a nurse, she knew (or should have known) about the side effects of the drugs she was taking. She can't claim ignorance.

I really have a hard time thinking about the children being strangled with exercise bands--and that they were still around their necks. To me, that would be a very slow and excruciatingly painful death. I can't imagine their fear, pain, and terror.

Her husband may forgive her but he deserves better than caring for a paraplegic that killed his children for the rest of his life. He needs to move on (JMOO) and choose better next time.

All MOO, but I'm not in a forgiving mood.

That's what gets to me is how she killed her kids.

I've heard that death by strangulation takes time and that it's not a quick death.
 

Howl

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It's called post-partum PSYCHOSIS for a reason -- the definition of psychosis is losing touch with reality manifested as auditory and visual hallucinations, delusional thoughts and beliefs and other disturbances in rational thought.

This is Andrea Yates all over again. Andrea Yates was prescribed at least one medication that drastically worsened her condition and it sounds as though Lindsay Clancy was also over medicated/wrongly medicated.

Andrea Yates was retried, found guilty by reason of insanity and is currently in a Texas psychiatric institution, not prison.

My fear is Lindsay Clancy will also end up in prison, and not a psychiatric hospital where she can receive treatment.
 

Nfagundes14

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Cedars

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It's called post-partum PSYCHOSIS for a reason -- the definition of psychosis is losing touch with reality manifested as auditory and visual hallucinations, delusional thoughts and beliefs and other disturbances in rational thought.
Yes, and yet the person is in touch with reality to the extent that they are capable of, for example, wanting to kill themselves and therefore jumping out of a second-story window, rather than maybe jumping off a sofa.

LC wasn't violent towards her husband, who would have been able to fend her off.

I think it's natural that people recognize there's some kind of rational, purposeful, intelligent aspect to this psychotic behaviour, especially as compared with what a person with dementia might do: wander around in a daze of confusion, truly out of touch with reality.

I don't think psychology has answered why, if someone is in a psychotic state, it sometimes results in so much targetted violence. It's not the case that psychosis is necessarily violent, very often it's not.

It seems in some ways, then, psychology is saying the psychotic person lost their normal impulse controls.

But many crimes are committed by people with impaired impulse control, due to drugs, alcohol
stress, etc. and yet they go to jail.

It just raises, in my mind, all sorts of questions about how some people are sent to jail for life and we applaud, and other people receive compassion.

JMO
 

iluvmua

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It's called post-partum PSYCHOSIS for a reason -- the definition of psychosis is losing touch with reality manifested as auditory and visual hallucinations, delusional thoughts and beliefs and other disturbances in rational thought.

This is Andrea Yates all over again. Andrea Yates was prescribed at least one medication that drastically worsened her condition and it sounds as though Lindsay Clancy was also over medicated/wrongly medicated.

Andrea Yates was retried, found guilty by reason of insanity and is currently in a Texas psychiatric institution, not prison.

My fear is Lindsay Clancy will also end up in prison, and not a psychiatric hospital where she can receive treatment.

Bc Andrea Yates actually had PPP.

LC showed no signs of it.

She was just diagnosed with GAD.
 

Tealgrove

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My sister suffered from post partum psychosis.

It is terrifying and horrendous and the most frightening thing I’ve ever had deal with. EVER!

We were lucky. My sister was hospitalized very quickly. I moved into my sister’s house to look after my newborn nephew. My sister got help but she was NEVER left alone with my nephew for the first year of his life.

What has happened to the Clancy family is horrendous.

I will not pass judgement on a severely mentally ill mother who clearly did not receive the appropriate care.

If you haven’t lived it, you have no idea.

MOO
 

IDK

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Just came across this article and find it extremely interesting:

“ Specific motives for filicide were initially described by Resnick,1 classified as (1) altruistic, (2) acutely psychotic, (3) accidental filicide (fatal maltreatment), (4) unwanted child, and (5) spouse revenge filicide.1 Altruistic filicide is murder committed out of love to relieve the real or imagined suffering of the child. Altruistic filicide may be associated with suicide. For example, a mother who is suicidal may not be willing to leave her child motherless in a “cruel world.” Distinct from this, acutely psychotic filicide occurs when a parent in the throes of acute psychosis (e.g., experiencing command hallucinations) kills his or her child with no comprehensible motive. Fatal maltreatment filicide may occur as a result of child abuse, neglect, or Munchausen syndrome by proxy. Parents committing spouse revenge filicides kill children in a specific attempt to make the spouse suffer. Furthermore, filicide may occur within the context of familicide, the extermination of the entire family.

Resnick1 reported a “relief of tension” after altruistic and acutely psychotic filicides. The expulsion of energy after the child’s death explains why some parents who had intended filicide-suicide did not complete the act of suicide. Conversely, other parents, “upon realization of the gravity of their act…may attempt suicide even if it was not planned” (Ref. 1, p 79). In the reported literature, a large proportion of filicides are filicide-suicides, with 16 to 29 percent of mothers and 40 to 60 percent of fathers who commit filicide also committing suicide.2–4 Fathers’ higher rates of filicide-suicide are possibly related to the higher male suicide rate in general.”


If she wasn’t acutely psychotic due to PPP or medication induced homicidal ideation— what possible motive could she have had?
 
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