MA - Lindsay Clancy, Strangled 3 Children in Murder/Suicide Attempt, Duxbury, Jan 2023

[BeginnerSleuther]

"I do not know a better mother than Lindsay Clancy. She lived and breathed for her children," said nurse Erika Sevieri.

"I could have been Lindsay. Anyone of us could have been," nurse Susan Davison wrote.

"We are all in shock," said nurse Mary Pomerleau.

From vouching for her character to slamming her list of medications, telling their own stories of postpartum struggles and putting forth alternative theories, dozens of letters from friends and strangers in support of Lindsay Clancy were unsealed in court this week.

The letters requested by The Patriot Ledger, all sent to her defense attorney Kevin Reddington, come from as far away as the United Kingdom and all have a single thing in common: They say Lindsay Clancy cannot be held responsible for the death of her three children in Duxbury.

Several doctors and strangers with medical experience wrote to Reddington to suggest Lindsay was suffering from akathisia, a term used to describe the extreme effects of certain antipsychotic and antidepressant drugs. Others said the list of drugs she was taking − which included Prozac, Zoloft, trazodone, Valium and Klonopin − should have never been prescribed.

Unsealed court documents reveal dozens of letters in support of Lindsay Clancy

Dozens of letters from friends and strangers in support of Lindsay Clancy were unsealed in court this week.

www.patriotledger.com

Akathisia?

Neither akathisia nor TD will cause you to kill someone. Think of akathisia as being similar to restless legs (it's not the same, but it's that kind of thing). It has nothing to do with your interpretation of reality.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I’m thinking about a possible trigger for her that day, and the pediatrician appointment is coming more into focus.

One of her children was apparently experiencing constipation that required treatment with Miralax. Functional constipation in children has been shown to be associated with maternal neuroticism, overprotective parenting, and maternal hostility, rejection, and authoritarianism.

Parental characteristics and functional constipation in children: a cross-sectional cohort study

“Mothers of constipated children had significant higher scores on the neuroticism personality factor and reported higher rates of overall psychological distress and depression.”

Clinical, psychological and maternal characteristics in early functional constipation

“The mothers of the patient group had higher levels of psychological distress, overprotective parenting and strict discipline.”

Clinical findings, child and mother psychosocial status in functional constipation

“Emotional and peer problems subscale scores, parental concerns as well as over-parenting attitude were found higher in patients. Significant difference was also observed between the groups in terms of mean score of authoritarian attitude dimensions. Attitude of hostility and rejection and marital discordance was found to be significantly high in patient families.”

I’m wondering if LC received information or counseling that morning from the pediatrician suggesting her child’s constipation was psychological, a show of resistance against possibly rigid, anxious, or perfectionist parenting. She might have taken that as an overwhelming indictment of her as a mother, or as confirmation that her children were “against her” and would oppose her to the point of making themselves ill. That may have been the trigger that finally caused her to snap.

Constipation in kids is VERY, VERY, VERY common. I would be shocked if any discussion like that happened.

 

[TGIRecovered]

I’m thinking about a possible trigger for her that day, and the pediatrician appointment is coming more into focus.

One of her children was apparently experiencing constipation that required treatment with Miralax. Functional constipation in children has been shown to be associated with maternal neuroticism, overprotective parenting, and maternal hostility, rejection, and authoritarianism.

Parental characteristics and functional constipation in children: a cross-sectional cohort study

“Mothers of constipated children had significant higher scores on the neuroticism personality factor and reported higher rates of overall psychological distress and depression.”

Clinical, psychological and maternal characteristics in early functional constipation

“The mothers of the patient group had higher levels of psychological distress, overprotective parenting and strict discipline.”

Clinical findings, child and mother psychosocial status in functional constipation

“Emotional and peer problems subscale scores, parental concerns as well as over-parenting attitude were found higher in patients. Significant difference was also observed between the groups in terms of mean score of authoritarian attitude dimensions. Attitude of hostility and rejection and marital discordance was found to be significantly high in patient families.”

I’m wondering if LC received information or counseling that morning from the pediatrician suggesting her child’s constipation was psychological, a show of resistance against possibly rigid, anxious, or perfectionist parenting. She might have taken that as an overwhelming indictment of her as a mother, or as confirmation that her children were “against her” and would oppose her to the point of making themselves ill. That may have been the trigger that finally caused her to snap.

Yes Spidey, I've heard of this before! I don't remember which case, but quite a few years ago I read an interview with the neighbor of a young child ( maybe 6 -8 years old) who was experiencing such paralyzing fear of his father that he hadn't pooped in three weeks. The poor little boy was finally able to "go" when he came to her house. I think she had a child of a similar age. The little boy came over to play and had a horribly painful bathroom experience. MOO

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Family expressed concern about mother’s medication before prosecutor says she killed three children

Arguments at this week's arraignment made it clear that Lindsay Clancy's treatment for postpartum depression will play a role as she stands accused of killing her three children.

www.wbur.org

Her husband said she was addicted to benzos?

'Carney also said that Patrick Clancy told him his wife was having trouble sleeping and was addicted to Benzodiazepines, a depressant often used to treat anxiety. Carney said Patrick Clancy "was really concerned about the withdrawals and said that Lindsay had the worst side effects possible."'

Bolded from the link provided.
JME
I was misdiagnosed and prescribed benzos 21 years ago. I took them as the doctor told me. I was a zombie; I did household chores, was always on schedule, I got up at 7 am, and was in bed at 10 pm. if not before. I also had a daily nap when my 3-month-old baby had a midday nap between 11.30 and 1 pm.
Scheduled.
I had no anxiety. I had no depression. I had no anything. I gained so much weight from the drug and as a petite person, this started to cause problems with my health and after 18 months of actual, benefical cognititve behavioral therapy (CBT) and a significant relevation from my ex-partner, I realised I wasnt unreasonable with my anxiety and I decided to wean myself off.
It was awful, and I did it slowly because cold turkey is physically impossible, especially with 3 children. I took me roughly 6 to 7 months. I would NEVER take them again. They changed my life, but I have learned very valuable lessons from it.

JMO
I looked into full cold turkey from benzos and it is very interesting.

'Physiological dependence on benzodiazepines is accompanied by a withdrawal syndrome which is typically characterized by sleep disturbance, irritability, increased tension and anxiety, panic attacks, hand tremor, sweating, difficulty in concentration, dry wretching and nausea, some weight loss, palpitations, headache, muscular pain and stiffness and a host of perceptual changes. Instances are also reported within the high-dosage category of more serious developments such as seizures and psychotic reactions. Withdrawal from normal dosage benzodiazepine treatment can result in a number of symptomatic patterns. The most common is a short-lived "rebound" anxiety and insomnia, coming on within 1-4 days of discontinuation, depending on the half-life of the particular drug. The second pattern is the full-blown withdrawal syndrome, usually lasting 10-14 days; finally, a third pattern may represent the return of anxiety symptoms which then persist until some form of treatment is instituted. '

The benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome

 

[spicyrock]

I’m thinking about a possible trigger for her that day, and the pediatrician appointment is coming more into focus.

One of her children was apparently experiencing constipation that required treatment with Miralax. Functional constipation in children has been shown to be associated with maternal neuroticism, overprotective parenting, and maternal hostility, rejection, and authoritarianism.

Parental characteristics and functional constipation in children: a cross-sectional cohort study

“Mothers of constipated children had significant higher scores on the neuroticism personality factor and reported higher rates of overall psychological distress and depression.”

Clinical, psychological and maternal characteristics in early functional constipation

“The mothers of the patient group had higher levels of psychological distress, overprotective parenting and strict discipline.”

Clinical findings, child and mother psychosocial status in functional constipation

“Emotional and peer problems subscale scores, parental concerns as well as over-parenting attitude were found higher in patients. Significant difference was also observed between the groups in terms of mean score of authoritarian attitude dimensions. Attitude of hostility and rejection and marital discordance was found to be significantly high in patient families.”

I’m wondering if LC received information or counseling that morning from the pediatrician suggesting her child’s constipation was psychological, a show of resistance against possibly rigid, anxious, or perfectionist parenting. She might have taken that as an overwhelming indictment of her as a mother, or as confirmation that her children were “against her” and would oppose her to the point of making themselves ill. That may have been the trigger that finally caused her to snap.

I’ve been seeing some of the same issues you’ve brought to light today. I think an even more understandable and typical trigger is anger or resentment of a wfh spouse who doesn’t interact with you or take care of the kids that day. Especially if one is constipated. She wanted to have more babies, wasn’t ready to go back to work, wanted more time with the newborn, said she felt disconnected- and she left them in his office. That’s a very painful wound to inflict on the surviving parent.

Maybe I’m seeing dots where there are none or maybe like others her motive was in part a kind of revenge. But she couldn’t go through with her own death.

(Doesn’t mean she wasn’t severely mentally ill. But it’s not always just one thing.)

 

[SpideySense]

She wanted to have more babies, wasn’t ready to go back to work, wanted more time with the newborn, said she felt disconnected- and she left them in his office. That’s a very painful wound to inflict on the surviving parent.

I hadn’t even thought of that. But you’re right, that might have been a really hostile final gesture.

 

[spicyrock]

I hadn’t even thought of that. But you’re right, that might have been a really hostile final gesture.

And she was going to have to go back to taking care of brand new moms with tiny babies. I can imagine the anger and frustration and even despair of leaving your own babies for that could be very significant.

If your husband doesn’t seem to get it or you can’t communicate it to him? That could be really bad. Maybe for all the people she tried to reach to for help, no one really listened to her about what she could or couldn’t manage.

 

[SpideySense]

DBM

 

[SpideySense]

Constipation in kids is VERY, VERY, VERY common. I would be shocked if any discussion like that happened.

I wasn’t saying this would have been the subject of detailed conversation with the pediatrician. I’m thinking the pediatrician might have casually mentioned that sometimes constipation can be due to withholding. Or maybe LC, being anxious and obsessive about her children’s health, found this information on her own and read the worst into it.

 

[BrownRice]

Going forward, hoping that the doctors and/or psychiatrists/psychologists who may have prescribed meds to LC will not be wholly blamed for the murders.
They may not have communicated with each other as well as they should have -- if more than one doctor was prescribing LC's doses, but with their medical background one would assume they did not deliberately prescribe in a careless or callous manner (as in, let's try this since the other meds weren't working , etc.) ??
People aren't guinea pigs to their doctors, and an ethical establishment will change or lower doses as needed !

Even one med that accidentally turns out to be disastrous for the patient ; can mess with a person, if their body and mind do not react in the manner that the medication's supposed results ?
If a patient is given a med to calm their paranoia, then the person should effectively be more at peace and able to cope, correct ?
How many warning signs were there before, and did the doctors take note that one or more of the meds weren't effective and adjust LC's meds ?
Imo.

I’ve never ever had a prescription other than birth control or a one time pain medication after surgery so I don’t have any experience here. But I assumed pharmacists would see all of the medications and flag them for a warning discussion if some should not be taken together. Isn’t there a main database for prescriptions or does a pharmacy only maintain their location’s prescriptions?

 

[BrownRice]

I’m thinking about a possible trigger for her that day, and the pediatrician appointment is coming more into focus.

One of her children was apparently experiencing constipation that required treatment with Miralax. Functional constipation in children has been shown to be associated with maternal neuroticism, overprotective parenting, and maternal hostility, rejection, and authoritarianism.

Parental characteristics and functional constipation in children: a cross-sectional cohort study

“Mothers of constipated children had significant higher scores on the neuroticism personality factor and reported higher rates of overall psychological distress and depression.”

Clinical, psychological and maternal characteristics in early functional constipation

“The mothers of the patient group had higher levels of psychological distress, overprotective parenting and strict discipline.”

Clinical findings, child and mother psychosocial status in functional constipation

“Emotional and peer problems subscale scores, parental concerns as well as over-parenting attitude were found higher in patients. Significant difference was also observed between the groups in terms of mean score of authoritarian attitude dimensions. Attitude of hostility and rejection and marital discordance was found to be significantly high in patient families.”

I’m wondering if LC received information or counseling that morning from the pediatrician suggesting her child’s constipation was psychological, a show of resistance against possibly rigid, anxious, or perfectionist parenting. She might have taken that as an overwhelming indictment of her as a mother, or as confirmation that her children were “against her” and would oppose her to the point of making themselves ill. That may have been the trigger that finally caused her to snap.

Wow. That’s fascinating. The things I learn here.

 

[Tutter]

Constipation in kids is VERY, VERY, VERY common. I would be shocked if any discussion like that happened.

No kidding! And why don’t they blame ‘parents’ in the study, not mothers?

 

[BrownRice]

No kidding! And why don’t they blame ‘parents’ in the study, not mothers?

Haha. Everything is the mothers’ faults. No wonder moms have so much anxiety.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Constipation in kids is VERY, VERY, VERY common. I would be shocked if any discussion like that happened.

I’m so glad you said this. I was sitting here getting all freaked out reading that, as one of my young grandkids has been experiencing constipation. I was half-ready to jump on a plane to go interrogate my daughter to see if she’s the cause.

 

[BrownRice]

I’m so glad you said this. I was sitting here getting all freaked out reading that, as one of my young grandkids has been experiencing constipation. I was half-ready to jump on a plane to go interrogate my daughter to see if she’s the cause.

When my youngest was a newborn i probably called the pediatrician 3x a week regarding this . They finally said it’s normal. Do you call your dr everyday you don’t poop. Lol. It’s so stressful though being a new mom.

 

[SpideySense]

I’m so glad you said this. I was sitting here getting all freaked out reading that, as one of my young grandkids has been experiencing constipation. I was half-ready to jump on a plane to go interrogate my daughter to see if she’s the cause.

That’s exactly my point! It’s not about the truth of whether her children’s constipation was in fact caused by her parenting. It’s about how a highly anxious mother in a fragile psychological state might catastrophize this information or be overwhelmed by it.

 

[steeltowngirl]

That’s exactly my point! It’s not about the truth of whether her children’s constipation was in fact caused by her parenting. It’s about how a highly anxious mother in a fragile psychological state might catastrophize this information or be overwhelmed by it.

I would hope her pediatrician didn’t make any suggestions about LC’s parenting, or her psyche, to suggest that her child’s constipation was her fault. But I can imagine a sick kid would have felt like another block in the wall of anxiety crushing down on her. I wonder if the pediatrician noticed or recognized the state of mind she was in.

Seems like her doctors were trying different medications to find the right one and also help lift her out of depression quickly. Since the right antidepressants can take weeks to months to fully kick in, they probably weren’t yet working. It may not have been the mix of meds affecting her badly, as much as it was the underlying depression. If she had severe anxiety, she may have been reading about the side effects of the different meds, as well as how long they might take for the full benefit to start, and she was scaring herself even more. She was about to go back to work at a demanding job.

A powder keg of pressure on an already fragile state of mind, that exploded in the most heartbreaking and unthinkable of ways.

jmo

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I wasn’t saying this would have been the subject of detailed conversation with the pediatrician. I’m thinking the pediatrician might have casually mentioned that sometimes constipation can be due to withholding. Or maybe LC, being anxious and obsessive about her children’s health, found this information on her own and read the worst into it.

Sure, it's possible she found it on her own, but there are an infinite number of possibilities. I'm just not a fan of studies that make implications based on Freudian pop-psychology characteristics. Professionally, I discount these types of studies because we actually don't know what causes functional constipation in kids and there's much more research stating that than there is trying to make some connection between mom's personality and the kid's GI dysregulation. In medical circles, we view these types of publications as stigmatizing and based on no biological evidence for something that very likely has biological roots. I believe psychological roots to constipation in kids is related to painful bowel movements where the learned behavior is to avoid pain by avoiding BMs. Suppressing BMs ultimately leads to poor transit through the GI system, where water is absorbed, leading to harder BMs so subsequent BMs are also painful, which reinforces the intentional suppression.

The original hard/painful BM can be due to poor nutritional intake/diet, low activity, childhood obesity, genetics, or a wide number of other causes.

So in short, on my own list of differential causes for this condition, maternal personality isn't even there and if it is, it is at the very, very, very, very, very bottom. JMO based on my education/training/experience.

Did LC come across something like this? I don't know; I'm not sure we'll ever know. But I think it's a reach. As a nurse, I believe she wouldn't have taken it to heart. JMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I’ve never ever had a prescription other than birth control or a one time pain medication after surgery so I don’t have any experience here. But I assumed pharmacists would see all of the medications and flag them for a warning discussion if some should not be taken together. Isn’t there a main database for prescriptions or does a pharmacy only maintain their location’s prescriptions?

So here's how it works:

At this time, we don't have a national database for every pharmacy in the US, but every chain has its own database. So if I got something filled at a CVS in CA, the CVS in KY or MD or GA or LA would see it.

When someone is admitted to the hospital, it isn't unusual for their meds to be changed. On discharge, they are given a short (15-30 days) script to bridge them until their outpatient appointment with another provider who will take over prescribing at that time.

So say she got a script for one med in November. It wouldn't raise red flags if another med is started in December because the November med was likely only for 15-30 days anyway. So she wouldn't be on the another med at the same time necessarily. Could someone have added a med to the November one? Sure. But sometimes that's needed. For instance, if someone has cardiovascular disease and has a stent put in, they will be discharged with a blood thinner, hypertension med, and cholesterol med. It's the same thing for people with mental illness in some cases. Obviously, the goal should always be the least amount of meds possible, but multiple meds isn't necessarily bad if they're of different medication classes and do different things.

But again, I don't think any of us know what meds LC was on at the time of the murders. All we know is the meds she's been on in the past few months, right? Please correct me if I'm wrong. It's possible I missed some new info telling us her med list during the murders or days before.

 

[Marysmith]

I think we don’t know a lot about the medications. Maybe some were prescribed on an “as needed” basis only and not as a regular prescription. After all LC is a nurse and could handle that depending on her mental condition. IMO the defense coming out with her medications is misleading without doses and times and timeframes, etc…