Found Deceased MA - Michael Doherty, 20, Franklin, 14 May 2017

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by JerseyGirl, May 15, 2017.

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  1. Volpe

    Volpe New Member

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    Sport of Orienteering there is a term called "fight". This means while traversing a course or trail one encounters challenging terrain/water/brush. Based on your topo map and skill you decide which direction to take. If you choose shortcut through "fight" you could end up wading, climbing, etc. You are gassed physically vs choosing less "fight", etc. but if skilled and safe can shave time to get to control point. MD, if he indeed traversed the area we think he did, would have run into this "fight". Crossing over a marsh/brook twice, he would be, I think, clearly exhausted and under mental stress. Not to mention the conditions that night/early AM provided. Without sneakers and or shirt his body should show signs of cuts, scratches, abrasions, on his upper torso and feet. Wading through a marsh/underbrush would,I think, promote these type of marks regardless day or night. Autopsy should show this. If not, then something else possibly at play here based on where he ultimately came to rest and where some of his items were found or placed? IMO.
     


  2. MissSuzie

    MissSuzie New Member

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    Reading back through this thread, and the links, it seems that many assumptions people made, and took as facts, are things that are known not from police statements but only from what friend(s) / party attendee(s) told reporters (and presumably told police too) over the course of the first couple of days of the search. That he left alone, that he left at 1:30, that he declined several rides, that he said he was going to take the path through woods, that he told people that he and his brother had taken the path once before, that the trail is tricky and "it looks like he took a wrong turn", that he charged his phone a little at the home but it was dead when he left, that he was coherent and talking but had "obviously" been drinking. What of these things have been confirmed as true? Or was there just a desire to get this out as the early working narrative? As someone else wrote, it's not really known that MD even left the party alive, and while his scent, or scent of his sneakers, suggested he was across the brook in Bellingham, that scent might have been from someone planting the sneaker over there (someone close enough to him to remove shirt and sneakers might have also gotten some of his scent on him or herself). Police didn't say or confirm anything about finding any clothes or shoe(s) until Tuesday morning, but it was told to reporters by friend(s) on at least Monday, if not Sunday. That poor MD's body was found not far from the party house and in the opposite direction of where early stories would have suggested he went, and that his sneakers were said not to have appeared to have traveled through a rain soaked trail or a swamp, casts at least a shadow of a doubt on many of the early statements that were then assumed to be facts. There are still too many unknowns (unknown to the public at least) to speculate on what could have happened (if he was wearing pants, socks or underpants when found, what kind of condition were they in? Is there evidence that they traversed a swamp twice? Were there any earlier pings on his phone found from a location closer to where his body was found? What will pathology or toxicology reports show?...). I hope it is simply a tragic case of a young man disoriented from something and getting lost on a stormy night in the woods and unable to find his way home, but i still have nagging doubts.
     
  3. Vail

    Vail Justice for Kara & Jessica

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    Just going by the facts, being he was last seen at a gathering of young people and was found in the opposite directions of his clothes which were scattered, clean shoes, and the place where the dog scented tells me all of that evidence was dumped. It does not match the "normal" patterns we see with disoriented or accidental deaths.

    For comparison, we have a kid who left his house in the middle of the night to meet up with friends and was found in the woods nearby. Turns out he was brutally murdered by his two buddies after leaving their place.

    Another kid goes to a party one night after dropping off his girlfriend, is found in the opposite direction of his car both being in the opposite direction of his house. Turns out both his body and car were ditched in different places, and he was murdered by everyone at the gathering that night (aside from GF who had been dropped off)

    Compared to accidental deaths such as a man who wandered off into the woods at a party where everyone testified to him being extremely intoxicated, was found nearby drowned in a pond. Everything added up because his shoes were on the way to the pond.

    Another one where a guy got high on mushrooms and synthetic weed, left a party in the middle of the night in the freezing cold, and was found later on dead from hypothermia. Open and shut not only due to tox, but because his trail was easy to follow.
     
  4. creepcrusher

    creepcrusher ✭Lifetime WILD BOAR Fan✭ Oink Oink ⚽️

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    I agree with all this.
     
  5. Dionysia

    Dionysia Former Member

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    <modsnip>

    ****

    Once again, I'll remind folks that this is likely what it appears to be: a young man who was cold, disoriented, and possibly intoxicated/under the influence.

    I doubt very much that foul play was involved. I suspect Michael was under the mistaken impression that he could find his way home.

    See also: Zachary Marr
     
  6. tc1236

    tc1236 New Member

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    I don't know much about police dogs but doesn't it seem very strange that a k-9 team couldn't find someone 200 yds from their last known location??? does rain wash away the scent? but then again, the dogs were able to pick up his scent by Maple Rd. so how could the dogs not just go from shirt/shoe to shoe to body? (I get there's a river involved but we're talking about a professional k-9 team in a relatively small area) So that begs the question...was the body really there the whole time?
     
  7. Beth11311

    Beth11311 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed...I don't know enough about scent and tracking but it all seems so suspicious...

    I am generally a huge fan of Occam's Razor and so I naturally lean towards this all being a terrible tragic accident, HOWEVER, there have been a whole lot of odd circumstances surrounding Michael's death and it's becoming harder and harder to dismiss this as a simple case of a lost, possibly drunk, boy.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. Curiosity7

    Curiosity7 Well-Known Member

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    I know a bit about search dogs and from what I know, yes, rain washes away scent.
    And the dogs are only as good as their handlers.
    I imagine K-9 professional search teams are highly trained.

    I continue to wonder how this young man didn't make it unless he became ill or was injured.
    I simply don't think it makes sense that he came back from the Bellingham side within 200 yards of where he started if he was severely impaired.
    How did he manage that???

    And I can't understand how he wouldn't have survived a few hours till sunrise.
    Just a few hours and was light.
    It was not that cold and if he had the wherewithal to make it back from Bellingham, he could have found shelter with leaves, limbs, something to keep warm enough.
    How often do where hear of campers out in the cold wilderness survive for days?

    Given that police have already announced that there were no visible signs of trauma, that debunks my thought that maybe he slipped and fatally hit his head.

    As is standard and the law in this state, 'unaccompanied deaths' mandate an autopsy and full tox screen.

    My thoughts continue to be with Michael with hopes that his parents find out what happened.
     
  9. JaJo

    JaJo Member

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    Funny, I was the opposite who started out with all kinds of suspicious thoughts but now feel it has been a terrible tragic accident.
     
  10. creepcrusher

    creepcrusher ✭Lifetime WILD BOAR Fan✭ Oink Oink ⚽️

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    How long does it take to confirm whether someone has died of hypothermia? Just curious.
     
  11. Beth11311

    Beth11311 Well-Known Member

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    Funny how we all read and feel different things, right? May I ask what swayed you?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. MistyM

    MistyM Well-Known Member

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    i flow charted this theory in my head.

    michael might have smoked weed once and a while, it could have been spice (synthetic marijuana) that night, and he didn't know it, or knew and thought he would just try it once.

    or, michael did not use any type of drugs. perhaps a few kids thought it would be brilliant to slip some 'molly' in his drink.

    i used to take all kinds of colorful tablets in the nineties, and you couldn't pay me to ingest what passes for ecstasy these days... omg, all these junior chemists ordering chemicals (legal) from china and mixing up completely dangerous concoctions and pressing them into pills.

    ecstasy makes you HOT, you need water, maybe he was hot and thirsty and thought he would like to go outside and cool down and the rain would have been enticing, but according to the people there he wasn't rolling or tripping... so i'm thinking if tox comes back and he was on some sort of component of a chemical nightmare pill, someone might have spiked him and he just started feeling it, left and went on a journey that ended terribly.

    this is all my conjecture of if he had some sort of drugs in his system. i do not think he would be a regular user, as he would know better than to go vision questing without someone keeping an eye on him. and he should have gotten a ride home no matter what, if ANY drugs or alcohol were involved at that party they should have had uber or a taxi pick him up, or a designated driver drive him home. i'd be really talking to the party goers and see what the party favors of the night were. (for the more adventurous people).

    the taking off of the clothes made me mostly think of molly/ecstasy/mdma because you can get so incredibly hot! add in some weird chemical to that (most pills now are hardly pure mdma they put all kinds of stuff in there that kills people), he definitely could have left, unknowingly (that would be horrible and anyone who slips people crap in their drinks should be charged), got hot stripped, wandered around and died of hypothermia (wet and half naked), or something in whatever he ingested ended up causing a medical problem and he expired from that (no trauma).

    my own opinion, flowcharting down the drug road lol. i have other ones for innocent accidents and conspiracies with people at the party.
     
  13. JaJo

    JaJo Member

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    I think we have an OD from heroin/fentanyl around once a week here now but it's usually those in their mid 20s and over, not school aged kids. Not that I know of anyway.
     
  14. JaJo

    JaJo Member

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    I think because I can picture in my mind how it may of happened. He headed out OK but looks like he missed the turn to the path towards his house and just kept walking till he came to the brook. People said the path was overgrown from years of not being used. If you look at the map, you can see if he stayed on the path, it looks like it ended at the brook where he may have crossed over....and then crossed back again when knowing he went the wrong way. Seems he just turned around and headed back in the direction he originally came from. I'm thinking it was so dark that he bypassed the party house.

    Plus, I think if the LEOs had any thoughts of there being foul play involved, my daughter would have said something to me becuase my son-in-law, a LEO involved in the search, was at the debriefing and knew what was going on. It was a heartbreaking experience to all those guys who put their heart and souls into finding Michael to have him end up being so close to the party house. My daughter said 200' away. They're filled with "what ifs." What if they found him Sunday and gotten him medical attention...could they have saved him?. The locals wanted to put on a First Responders Dinner for them, but they're not in any mood for a celebratory dinner. They're all feeling the loss, too.
     
  15. LaneGirl

    LaneGirl Well-Known Member

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    Certain drugs can make one hot I agree.
    BUT so does hypothermia.
    Has toxicology been released yet?
     
  16. Curiosity7

    Curiosity7 Well-Known Member

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    We all extend many thanks to those in LE and otherwise who searched for days for Michael.
    One can only imagine how difficult it was and how incredibly disheartening to not have found him and saved him.

    Does it make sense to you, though, that Michael didn't live? If he was so close to the house, one would assume he was the very next morning with daylight.
    Why wasn't he able to find his way to the house, or a neighborhood or 495 in the morning, just a few hours after he left?
    It doesn't make sense to me.

    What would cause a young man we assume was in good health given that he was an athlete pass away only after a few hours?

    I was lost in a heavily wooded reservation a few years ago with ravines and ponds for a few hours in the dead of night.
    It was terrifying.
    I couldn't see my hand in front of my face.
    I could hear coyotes howling what seemed feet away.
    I had managed to reach someone who knew the trails minutes before my cell died and I read a sign by the light of my cell to him before it went dead.
    By the grace of God, he knew the trail and my location - he often hiked this reservation.
    It took him 2 1/2 hours to reach me...I was in deep.
    I didn't die.
    It was cold...maybe 45...but cold to me since I had on only a tee-shirt and shorts.
    I was shivering and terrified.
    And I'm twice Michael's age.

    This is why I can't wrap my head around what happened to Michael...so close...why wasn't he able to make it to safety once the sun came up?
     
  17. Spider92

    Spider92 Well-Known Member

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    I think we may underestimate the role of cold water and hypothermia. I just took a boating course this evening and was surprised to read that cold water robs the body of body heat 25 times as fast as cold air. Whether it's a pond, lake, river or marsh, waterways in New England are very cold this time of year. I remember putting the docks in a Maine lake during Memorial Day weekend many years ago and it was painfully cold. Thrashing out of a cold marsh into 42 degree rainy weather is difficult. He had no multiple layers - just a t-shirt. Alcohol, if involved, makes it worse plus he was recently accustomed to Carolina weather.
    As for the tox report - does anybody know if tox results become less reliable or difficult to measure if not done until a week after death?
     
  18. Curiosity7

    Curiosity7 Well-Known Member

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    I can understand hypothermia setting in...but given that Michael found his way back, assuming he went to Bellingham, I wonder why he didn't have the ability to do something to keep warm till sunrise.

    After a week, assuming he perished that morning, decomposure begins and ethanol levels rise.
    Ethanol is the same composition (alcohol) that is used to measure the degree of intoxication.

    That's all I know.
     
  19. LaneGirl

    LaneGirl Well-Known Member

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    I think at this point we have to assume he "found his way back". He might seriously have been totally lost and not known where he was or that he was close to being back to where he started. idk
     
  20. LvsAMystry

    LvsAMystry Well-Known Member

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    This.
     
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