MA MA - Molly Bish, 16, Warren, 27 June 2000

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by Doyle, Aug 12, 2003.

  1. morf13

    morf13 Ver. Insider Golden State Killer & Zodiac Killer

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    Molly's case is one of those ones that is frustrating. You have a good description and details of the likely Suspect, very specific details. Somebody knew somebody that matched these details,yet the case remains unsolved.
     


  2. JusticeWillBeServed

    JusticeWillBeServed Well-Known Member

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  3. JusticeWillBeServed

    JusticeWillBeServed Well-Known Member

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    They don't reveal a name but the private investigator says there are a lot of tips coming in about a certain individual. Hopefully this information will help them find Molly's killer.

    "Leads pour in to Bish family private investigator"

    http://www.westernmassnews.com/story/29365931/leads-pour-in-to-bish-family-private-investigator


     
  4. scriptgirl

    scriptgirl Well-Known Member

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  5. somequestions

    somequestions Well-Known Member

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    I went through lifeguard training not too long after Molly Bish. It is difficult as the first thing you have to do is complete a 500 yard swim non-stop to continue to take the class. My arm muscles were tense as could be afterwards. After I completed the class out of the blue I call a call from my female lifeguard instructor who asked if I would like to guard the university pool. I was surprised since I did not think I made that much of an impression. I declined as that was my last class for college and I was leaving.

    The point is that lifeguards are athletic. If the killer in this case dragged Molly Bish, my question is did he bring a weapon too? She had to have some athleticism to be a lifeguard. That brings me to my second question.

    In all the shows I have seen of Commins Pond, there is something missing that maybe is just not shown on t.v. There are no "Lifeguard on Duty" signs. Did Molly's bathing suit say "Lifeguard" on it. Since Molly just got the police radio the day she disappeared, how did the kidnapper not know if she was just a girl out on the beach?

    There is something unique about this particular lifeguarding situation. In class they teach you that when you have an emergency you CALL FIRST. The reason is because you do not have someone to help you. How did the kidnapper in this case know there was only one lifeguard on duty? Sometimes lifeguards do more than just lifeguard. They are sometimes responsible for the upkeep of a place, cleaning the bathrooms, taking out the trash, and putting away swimming pool items. How did the kidnapper know there was nobody else there to help Molly Bish?
     
  6. Pettibon Junction

    Pettibon Junction Active Member

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    Comins Pond is a municipal beach, no? Perhaps Molly's killer worked for the town in some capacity.
     
  7. somequestions

    somequestions Well-Known Member

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    I really do not know what the difference is between a municipal beach and another. My theory for what it is worth is that the killer is most likely some type of single individual who lived by themselves. That person might be unemployed or off from their job at the time, like a teacher.

    There is an episode of a show called Dark Minds. Episode is called Blond, Blue-eyed and Gone. The second half details Molly Bish's abduction and murder. The guy makes a good point on the show about not being able to see the pond from the parking lot.

    My question is if he was lurking in the woods behind the lifeguard station, could he see the car she arrived in from there? If it was the guy that her mom saw from the day before, I would think he would want to make sure she was gone.

    Like most individuals, Molly probably arrived early to start her shift. I get that impression because there was a swimming event at the beach that day for the kids according to shows done about Molly's case. Most events start at a specific time on the hour. So the killer arrived early too?

    The Dark Minds show says a woman saw a swath of pine needles were it looked she had been dragged. Was the swath smooth or jagged? Maybe the killer used something to knock her out. That might mean somebody from a hospital.

    If there was indeed a white car in the cemetery parked for the abduction and someone did see it, maybe the killer needed a reason to be there. So from the persons of interest in the case, are any of their relatives buried in that cemetery? Where do most of the bodies in the cemetery come from, what area? I know these might be dumb questions, but sometimes in order to get a lead you have to ask questions that might seem off the wall.

    That is about all I can think of with this case. After over 15 years, hopefully there will be some type of clue that helps the case get solved.
     
  8. Pettibon Junction

    Pettibon Junction Active Member

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    It means that the beach would have been managed and staffed through the town parks/recreation department.
     
  9. somequestions

    somequestions Well-Known Member

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    There are so many unanswered questions about the Molly Bish case.

    Did the police find cigarette butts behind the lifeguard area where Molly was making it more likely the killer was the guy in the white car smoking?

    Were there pine needles or other signs on Molly's blanket indicating the killer came from the woods? Was the blanket flat out or did it look like someone had stepped in it?

    Who was the previous lifeguard? I read that it was her brother? What was his day like? Who did he interact with or does he remember any people that he set apart in his mind when he lifeguarded?

    On the Dark Minds program I found it kind of interesting that the author could not get up the hill where Molly's remains were found without almost falling. So maybe this killer because he would be carrying a body had a lower center of gravity or maybe he came from on top of the hill and walked down?

    As for lifeguarding sometimes I think in terms of myself. When I took my lifeguarding class in June the year after Molly Bish, I naturally thought for some reason that she also took her lifeguarding class in June and that like myself a few days after the class ended her lifeguard instructor called her up to offer her the lifeguarding job. Now I know that it has to be someone from the town or city that hires the lifeguards in Warren, MA and that maybe she already had her certification earlier or was already in line for the job already as long as she completed certification. What is the date on her lifeguard certification? What is the date of her hire? These are obviously things the police know. If she was working at her job and it was her fifth day does that mean going back she also worked the weekend? That would make her first day June 23, a Friday.

    The main question in this case is why Molly Bish? I know the author of Dark Minds makes the point it was because she was a blond blue-eyed female, but there are other blond blue-eyed females.

    So many unanswered questions. I know I ask a lot of detailed questions that might not be important, but I think you have to ask questions, lots of them. Hopefully someday someone finds the answers.
     
  10. somequestions

    somequestions Well-Known Member

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    The white car that was seen the day before by Molly Bish's mother and the following day parked in the cemetery is not to be denied, but the part I thought was strange about the Molly Bish case was that the guy starred at her mom. The reason is that many criminals when they are going to commit a crime or have committed a crime do not like to make eye contact. It is because criminals do not want to set themselves apart and be remembered.

    Then there is the fact that this person in the white car was already there before Molly Bish arrived that day. I know this line of thinking might be off, but if he saw her earlier why stay in the parking lot? Why not be out on the beach, or sitting on a rock, or fishing, or taking a swim? Whoever it was must have assumed she came to work at Commins Pond the same time every day. This crime happened on June 27, 2000, a Tuesday. Supposedly that was her 5th day of work. So if she worked the weekend her first day would have been Friday. If she did not work the weekend her first day would have been Wednesday. You can see the problem with Monday and Tuesday. If this person comes there to smoke and think the previous Monday or Tuesday, there would not have been a lifeguard there. And they cannot see the beach from the parking lot. Maybe she had some type of staggered schedule and I am wrong about her start date or maybe there is more than one lifeguard?

    On the day Molly Bish disappeared there was some type of event for mothers and their kids. On that Tuesday did more people than usual show up at the beach or less? Was it an average day? If you factor in the sand truck that Molly and her mom watched for a while, it really did not seem like the ideal day for a kidnapping with so many potential witnesses around. What was the weather like that day? Cloudy days equal less people at the beach.

    Therein lies the key to the way criminals think and that is that sometimes they just do not care. They see someone and choose them. But if that is the case, like the Dark Minds author asked, why not that day(Monday)?

    If I were a detective on this case, I think the first thing I would have done was wait until her payday and then go and make sure she had a paycheck. Maybe that is dumb but until she is found the assumption had to be that she is still alive.
     
  11. Alyssa2013

    Alyssa2013 Member

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    Pure speculation. The guy that Mrs. Bish saw might not have been the killer. While I trust her instincts, saying so definitively would just be ignorance. Also, in reply to your other questions, the criminal could have been waiting for an opportune moment, he could've backed out earlier, he could have been assessing the situation, etc. There are many reasons why he could have decided to attack on a later day. The weather has nothing to do with it in my opinion. He could have attacked on a sunny day or a rainy day. Doesn't matter. In terms of the paycheck, why does that matter? Most victims of abductions are murdered within an hour to three hours of being abducted. <modsnip>
     
  12. scriptgirl

    scriptgirl Well-Known Member

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    What's this about a sand truck?
     
  13. Kell1

    Kell1 Verified law enforcement

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    Always felt the ball was dropped on Molly's case, especially when they are finding pieces of bathing suit material consistent with what she was wearing , in the location her body was found while a film crew is filming a special on her.
     
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  14. somequestions

    somequestions Well-Known Member

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    A young reporter named Robert Way did an interview with Molly's mom. It is on Youtube. In the interview, Mrs. Bish said that on the day she dropped Molly off, the day of her abduction, they sat around in the car for a while and watched a truck dumping sand in I think the parking lot.

    I commented on Molly Bish's case to try to increase dialogue about it because there are many different scenarios that could have taken place and I wondered what other people think. In my opinion, I do not think most criminals watch and perform surveillance on their victims. Most simply see an opportunity and take it. As for whether or not it is the guy in the white car, the cemetery worker said he saw a while car fitting the description given by Magi Bish the day before. That car was parked in the cemetery.

    As for whatever person hired Molly Bish, my point is that everyone is a suspect. So the reason I would want to make sure she got a paycheck is to make sure the information was filed for her to receive her pay. Because if I went to wherever she gets her paycheck from and there was no paperwork filed the first thing I would wonder is why? It is a moot point anyway since I imagine the family or the police or private investigator went and asked that question after over 15 years.

    It is just since it seems like whoever took Molly Bish had to know her schedule. So if the criminal is in the woods behind the lifeguard chair, could he see the car approaching? From the Dark Minds episode, I would think no. The next question is, "Could he abductor hear the car approaching and parking in the lot?" Again, I am playing amateur detective since I guess the police performed this experiment themselves. It would be nice to think I came up with a good idea though.
     
  15. scriptgirl

    scriptgirl Well-Known Member

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    Is this Dark Minds episode on youtube? If so, does anyone have a link to it?
     
  16. somequestions

    somequestions Well-Known Member

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    I do not have a link but if at Youtube you type in Dark Minds E2S2 it should come up. Episode is called Blond, Blue-Eyed, and Gone. Molly Bish's case is not discussed until about midway through the episode.
     
  17. Kell1

    Kell1 Verified law enforcement

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    Sorry I didn't read through all the pages, is there any site that shows the distance from the beach area, to where she was found ?

    Preferably a map with an overlay ?
     
  18. somequestions

    somequestions Well-Known Member

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    The one thing you know for sure in this case is that whatever help the kidnapper asks for he did not get anything from the first aid kit. On an episode of Haunting Evidence they had a picture of the crime scene or it may have been a recreation. In the picture the chair looked like it had been tipped over, but the first aid kit was open. If Molly had gotten a band aid from the kit and then was kidnapped I think the band aid would have fallen to the ground.

    Unlike a lot of kidnappings, if the kidnapper did take Molly Bish up into the woods behind Commins Pond and had his car parked at the cemetery, then the kidnapping was planned. When you look at a case like this you wonder if there was anyway it could have been solved. I actually came up with a solution that only might have worked on the day of the abduction, but it would have required a lot of luck. Remember this solution is hindsight. I only just thought of it.

    The solution is to ask each person that day of the abduction to take off their shoes and turn each shoe upside down. It would not be a full proof solution, but I think it would point the case in a certain direction. Whenever I have been to the beach no matter how careful I am I always get sand in my shoes.
     
  19. Pettibon Junction

    Pettibon Junction Active Member

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    Not exactly what you asked for, but here's hoping this helps.
    Bish2.jpg
     
  20. Kell1

    Kell1 Verified law enforcement

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    Few other questions I have,

    -Was Molly the 1st lifeguard there every day?

    -Did she arrive the same time every day, or did her start times vary from day to day?

    -What time was the rest of the staff due to arrive(if any were to) ?-IE how long would she be alone?

    - In the days prior or after, were there any reports by staff of any suspicious persons in and around the pond area other than the individual her mother witnessed?

    And about 10000 more, but those would suffice to start

    I will say there's not enough personal info available on the victim to do a thorough Victimology report on this case unfortunately.
     

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