MA MA - Molly Bish, 16, Warren, 27 Jun 2000

[somequestions]

I have one more theory about Molly Bish's case. I looked up swim lessons for kids and it looks like most of the time towns give them free usually at the YMCA. So maybe there was a paper up with the date and time for these swim lessons at Commins Pond?

Then the kidnapper goes there looking to kidnap one of the kids but notices that the lifeguard is alone so he decides to take her instead. Maybe he got the dates messed up and that is why his white car was in the Commins Pond parking lot on Monday at 10 am? Then he comes back the next day and takes Molly Bish.

The problem is that he would then have to take off two days from work instead of one. I know it is a crazy theory.

 

[somequestions]

If anyone is interested there is some new stuff on youtube about Molly Bish's case under missing Molly. Actually it is some old stuff that I had not gotten to see before. I finally got to see what looks to be the old 48 hours episode about her case. In it, there is some interesting information. I got to see what the parks commissioner looks like. Also, they bring up some compelling information about the white car being spotted parked near a car wash at the base of Commins Pond Road.

One aspect that was really important was an eye witness to the crime scene who says she arrived around 10:20 am. Her description of the crime scene matchs Molly's stuff, everything except the sandals which she said were in front of Molly's stuff with the water bottle in the right heel. In the picture one sandal is in front of Molly's chair and the other is to the left side with the water bottle in the heel. It could just be a bad re-recreation of the scene or maybe someone asked Molly to move her stuff? For some reason her backpack was on the bench behind where she set up her stuff.

About the only thing I noticed was that most people use the tree line for shade. They sit towards the back of the beach to avoid the sun.

The best evidence in this case is still the body site. In order to bring a body up a hill, especially if it was dark outside requires calm, carefulness, and confidence. Where did they park the car? So possibly it is someone affiliated with the Palmer, Ware area but that probably describes everyone who lives in that area since it is a small town area. So it seems like an individual who is very detail oriented. But I am not a police officer. This is just what I think based on books I have read about criminal behavior.

Looking at the 48 hour case now they made the suggestion it might never be solved and that was kind of sad seeing as when it was filmed. Unlike tv or the movies sometimes crimes do not get solved. This is one crime I would really like to see get solved and come to a conclusion.

 

[somequestions]

Molly Bish's case is so hard to solve because there is so much conflicting information.

For example, the DA says they did a search of 125 white cars from the local area. What defines local? Yet when Molly Bish's bones were found, they were found on Whiskey Hill in Palmer, MA only about 5 miles away. So what did the white car man do, drive her farther away, then return to the area to drop off the body? I get the impression the body was buried in a shallow grave from reports, but cannot be sure about that. Holly Piiranain's body was found above ground from reports. Whether or not both cases are connected is anyone's guess.

Then there is where the white car was parked on the morning of Molly Bish's abduction, at the base of Commins Pond Road. So the idea is he waited for Molly Bish's car to pass that spot leaving the pond so he knew Molly Bish was alone. This sighting of the white car is according to another witness on the 48 hours episode. I looked this up on google maps and it looks like the car wash is still there and of course there has to be a white car driving down the main road which I think was called Southbridge Road. Yet the problem is there are about 2 or 3 other streets that cut over to Commins Pond road that if Molly Bish's car would have taken would have bypassed the white car waiting at the end of Commins Pond Road. So then you think that maybe he knew where the Bish family lived and how they would arrive at Commins Pond Road? But then if he knows the family and has seen Molly Bish before, what is he doing sitting in a parking lot glaring at her mother? Maybe he went to wash his car the day before June 26th when he left the Commins Pond parking lot the first time, and then noticed Molly Bish's car turning on to Southbridge so he waited there the next day figuring if the car left that way it would return the same way?

The simple answer in this case is that whoever kidnapped/murdered Molly Bish was the last person to see her alive if they were the killer. Supposedly there was a sand truck there at the pond. But for all I know the sand truck driver is an old man with arthritis and back problems. If I were a detective, that is the first person I would want to eliminate as a possible suspect and I am guessing that has already been done.

If this was a planned abduction by someone that knew Molly Bish, the one thing they would probably think is that when the lifeguard is no longer there someone is going to report that to police. According to tv programs Molly's boss did not arrive until around 11, then waited for about 45 minutes to see if Molly Bish returned before calling police. According to the show Disappeared he called police at 11:44 am from the two way police radio Molly Bish had with her. He seems like he was the first one to think of calling police.

And then there is the white car that has been followed up on for years. If the white car can be found it would provide at least a name and might even have evidence still in it.

Even the picture on the 48 hours mystery of Molly Bish's stuff is strange. Whenever I have put a water bottle in my shoes, I usually have both shoes together. My backpack would be near the rest of my stuff. So maybe she was interrupted while she was setting up her stuff? Maybe she had the stuff sitting on the bench and was setting up her stuff when the kidnapper approached?
So maybe she had removed her sandals and put the one sandal next to the chair while placing the water bottle in it, but she notices someone coming towards her and immediately gets her first aid kit thereby leaving the other sandal in front of the chair?
Or it could just be another re-creation picture for 48 hours and all that means nothing.

Until suspects can be eliminated and white cars explained Molly Bish's case will probably continue to be a tough case to solve.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

Molly Bish's case is so hard to solve because there is so much conflicting information.

For example, the DA says they did a search of 125 white cars from the local area. What defines local? Yet when Molly Bish's bones were found, they were found on Whiskey Hill in Palmer, MA only about 5 miles away. So what did the white car man do, drive her farther away, then return to the area to drop off the body? I get the impression the body was buried in a shallow grave from reports, but cannot be sure about that. Holly Piiranain's body was found above ground from reports. Whether or not both cases are connected is anyone's guess.

Then there is where the white car was parked on the morning of Molly Bish's abduction, at the base of Commins Pond Road. So the idea is he waited for Molly Bish's car to pass that spot leaving the pond so he knew Molly Bish was alone. This sighting of the white car is according to another witness on the 48 hours episode. I looked this up on google maps and it looks like the car wash is still there and of course there has to be a white car driving down the main road which I think was called Southbridge Road. Yet the problem is there are about 2 or 3 other streets that cut over to Commins Pond road that if Molly Bish's car would have taken would have bypassed the white car waiting at the end of Commins Pond Road. So then you think that maybe he knew where the Bish family lived and how they would arrive at Commins Pond Road? But then if he knows the family and has seen Molly Bish before, what is he doing sitting in a parking lot glaring at her mother? Maybe he went to wash his car the day before June 26th when he left the Commins Pond parking lot the first time, and then noticed Molly Bish's car turning on to Southbridge so he waited there the next day figuring if the car left that way it would return the same way?

The simple answer in this case is that whoever kidnapped/murdered Molly Bish was the last person to see her alive if they were the killer. Supposedly there was a sand truck there at the pond. But for all I know the sand truck driver is an old man with arthritis and back problems. If I were a detective, that is the first person I would want to eliminate as a possible suspect and I am guessing that has already been done.

If this was a planned abduction by someone that knew Molly Bish, the one thing they would probably think is that when the lifeguard is no longer there someone is going to report that to police. According to tv programs Molly's boss did not arrive until around 11, then waited for about 45 minutes to see if Molly Bish returned before calling police. According to the show Disappeared he called police at 11:44 am from the two way police radio Molly Bish had with her. He seems like he was the first one to think of calling police.

And then there is the white car that has been followed up on for years. If the white car can be found it would provide at least a name and might even have evidence still in it.

Even the picture on the 48 hours mystery of Molly Bish's stuff is strange. Whenever I have put a water bottle in my shoes, I usually have both shoes together. My backpack would be near the rest of my stuff. So maybe she was interrupted while she was setting up her stuff? Maybe she had the stuff sitting on the bench and was setting up her stuff when the kidnapper approached?
So maybe she had removed her sandals and put the one sandal next to the chair while placing the water bottle in it, but she notices someone coming towards her and immediately gets her first aid kit thereby leaving the other sandal in front of the chair?
Or it could just be another re-creation picture for 48 hours and all that means nothing.

Until suspects can be eliminated and white cars explained Molly Bish's case will probably continue to be a tough case to solve.

No offense, because I admire your passion, but I think you’re being a bit too pedantic about this case. I wouldn’t worry about inaccuracies in tv docudrama reenactments.

As for the remains, I think it can be safely surmised that the incomplete set of bones being found mean that Molly’s body was left above ground in the woods and scattered by animals who scavenged on it. Grim, but common.

Also, it can be assumed that the murder occurred at a secondary location. The body itself was not important to the killer so we can also conjecture reasonably that the motive was sadistic and sexual. For this reason, we’d be looking for an older, more experienced offender who probably owned rather than rented his home.

The white car and the smoking man (did they ever recover DNA from the discarded butts?) are the best lead in this case. 125 vehicles were checked out. The killer’s name is almost certainly on that list but, as the investigation is ongoing, police aren’t going to release it.

Stanger’s name got out there and now he won’t talk. In fact, he’s an old man now and they probably won’t waste the money extraditing him so I full expect this case to be stamped “closed” as soon as he dies in prison.

That said, he’s not the only suspect. Some are better than others but they all deserve a second look. Perhaps I’ll make a post later naming names.


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[Pettibon Junction]

There have been a number of men named as possibly being connected with the abduction and murder of Molly Bish. Their identities are scattered throughout this thread as well as elsewhere on the web. What follows is a list attempting to put them all in one place for easier reading.

1.) Rodney Stanger - Stanger is a convicted murderer currently serving a life sentence for killing his commonlaw wife Crystal Morrison in Florida, where he moved shortly after Molly's body was found. At the time of Molly's murder, Stanger was living in Southbridge, Massachusetts. He frequented a coffee shop that Molly visited before her death and bore a strong resemblance to the man seen by Magi Bish at Comins Pond. His younger brother, Randy, was known to drive a white car similar to the one Magi Bish saw at Comins Pond the day before Molly's disappearance. Further, Stanger was an avid sportsman, a hunter and fisherman who regularly fished at Comins Pond. His ex-wife has accused him of abusing their daughter and coming home from off-season "hunting trips" covered in blood. She also implicated Randy as an accomplice. (Interestingly, Randy Stanger was camping near where Holly Piirainen's body was found at the time of her murder.) Crime writer M. William Phelps has done extensive research into the Stanger brothers and believes they may be serial killers responsible not only for the Bish and Piirainen murders but also several disappearances of young girls in neighboring Tolland County, CT. A search of Crystal Morrison's trailer by her sister revealed a cache of girls hair elastics and, allegedly, a snuff film of a young blond woman being murdered with a chokehold.

2.) David Pouliot - Linked via forensics (police have never been forthcoming as to what this means) to the site where Holly Piirainen's body was recovered. He was also a hunter/fisherman and bore a resemblance to the composite sketch of the Comins Pond person-of-interest. He died in 2003 and not much else is known about him.

3.) Scott DeoJay - Much younger than the man described by Magi but he had a similar mustache and went on to abduct and kill a woman in Connecticut as well as commit several rapes. As far as I know, no one has connected him to Molly's murder.

4.) Robert Burno - Sex offender arrested in Brimfield for aggressively stalking a jogger and attempting to run her down with his car. Bore a superficial resemblance to the sketch, was a smoker (the POI at Comins Pond was observed smoking), and supposedly had an unregistered light sedan that he kept parked at his residence in 2000.

5.) Gerald Battistoni - Convicted rapist. Again, superficial resemblance to the sketch and may have had access to a vehicle similar to that of the POI at Comins Pond. However, he did not have an active driver's license in 2000 and his criminal history paints a picture of a man who groomed teenage girls and then sexually assaulted them. This is not the behavioral profile of the sort of killer who targeted Molly. Also to the detriment of Battistoni's candidacy is the prevalence of a conspiracy theory involving the police: namely, that his status as a confidential informant in the central MA drug trade led local cops to cover up his involvement in Molly's death. Given that the subsequent search for Molly's remains was the largest and most well-funded in the history of the commonwealth, this idea is patently absurd. He died of natural causes while serving a prison sentence for rape.

6.) Unnamed Camper - This lead is a more recent one and was given directly to the family itself. A man vacationing at a campground nearby left his party for a number of hours and returned covered in scratches, which he was unable to provide a reasonable explanation for. Later, he boasted of being a suspect in the Molly Bish murder while out drinking. His name has not been made public.

 

[OldSteve]

Thanks Pettibon Junciton for putting all the names in one place in the above. Thanks Somequestions for your post above, bring things up-to-date.

 

[somequestions]

No offense, because I admire your passion, but I think you’re being a bit too pedantic about this case. I wouldn’t worry about inaccuracies in tv docudrama reenactments.

As for the remains, I think it can be safely surmised that the incomplete set of bones being found mean that Molly’s body was left above ground in the woods and scattered by animals who scavenged on it. Grim, but common.

Also, it can be assumed that the murder occurred at a secondary location. The body itself was not important to the killer so we can also conjecture reasonably that the motive was sadistic and sexual. For this reason, we’d be looking for an older, more experienced offender who probably owned rather than rented his home.

The white car and the smoking man (did they ever recover DNA from the discarded butts?) are the best lead in this case. 125 vehicles were checked out. The killer’s name is almost certainly on that list but, as the investigation is ongoing, police aren’t going to release it.

Stanger’s name got out there and now he won’t talk. In fact, he’s an old man now and they probably won’t waste the money extraditing him so I full expect this case to be stamped “closed” as soon as he dies in prison.

That said, he’s not the only suspect. Some are better than others but they all deserve a second look. Perhaps I’ll make a post later naming names.


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I agree but there is not much else I can look at as an online amateur investigator(lol). I do look very closely at small details because to me there is not much else to look at with this case. It is not that I do not think the suspects or the white car are important. If I were in Maggie Bish's shoes and someone had glared at my kid in the parking lot of a beach and did not leave and then the next day the kidnapping happened, I would think the same thing she did, that it was the person in the white car. And I would dismiss it when the guy left the parking lot as me being overly careful.

Another small detail I thought was kind of interesting during the 48 hours program was when Molly's dad said that on the night of the abduction they could hear the helicopters and search dogs outside. I would want to question the search and rescue people about if the helicopter would have flown over Whiskey Hill during the searches or if the search dogs would have been close enough to hear nearby.

Analyzing tv re-creations is obviously not a good idea. I think I have seen so many different pictures of how her stuff was set up it is confusing. The 48 hours re-creation picture made me think that whoever kidnapped her did so before she had all of her stuff fully set up.

My whole point is not to say that Rodney Stanger did not do it or that the white car man did not do it. It is only to say that after 17 years what if the person who kidnapped and murdered Molly Bish was not the person in the white car?

 

[dotr]

Updated Nov 3 2017
http://www.fox25boston.com/news/new-englands-unsolved-podcast-episode-1-molly-bish/630377719

[h=1]New England's Unsolved Podcast Episode 1: Molly Bish[/h]

BOSTON - Seventeen years after Warren lifeguard Molly Bish disappeared from a local pond, the District Attorney says he is optimistic the long unsolved case might be resolved.

In the premier episode of our New England's Unsolved podcast, we dive into the mystery of Molly Bish's disappearance and death.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

I agree but there is not much else I can look at as an online amateur investigator(lol). I do look very closely at small details because to me there is not much else to look at with this case. It is not that I do not think the suspects or the white car are important. If I were in Maggie Bish's shoes and someone had glared at my kid in the parking lot of a beach and did not leave and then the next day the kidnapping happened, I would think the same thing she did, that it was the person in the white car. And I would dismiss it when the guy left the parking lot as me being overly careful.

Another small detail I thought was kind of interesting during the 48 hours program was when Molly's dad said that on the night of the abduction they could hear the helicopters and search dogs outside. I would want to question the search and rescue people about if the helicopter would have flown over Whiskey Hill during the searches or if the search dogs would have been close enough to hear nearby.

Analyzing tv re-creations is obviously not a good idea. I think I have seen so many different pictures of how her stuff was set up it is confusing. The 48 hours re-creation picture made me think that whoever kidnapped her did so before she had all of her stuff fully set up.

My whole point is not to say that Rodney Stanger did not do it or that the white car man did not do it. It is only to say that after 17 years what if the person who kidnapped and murdered Molly Bish was not the person in the white car?

There’s a great book called The Gift of Fear that’s all about intuitions of the sort Magi had and how we’re socialized to be polite (women especially) and thus feel guilty for having them and consequently brush them off. So yeah, maybe the guy with the mustache in the white car didn’t do it but if he scared Magi that badly, I would trust her. We are animals, after all, and fear can indeed be a precious thing in terms of preservation.

And your line about poring over small details because there’s not much else you can do hits home for me. I feel that acutely. We develop this great sense of empathy and want nothing more than to help but at the end of the day, who are we and what can we do, really?

But as long as we’re talking, we’re keeping the case alive. To the survivors, to know they’re not forgotten and that people care enough to spend their time thinking about what they’ve lost, it helps. It has to.


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[somequestions]

With cases like Molly Bish, the reason it is hard to come to conclusions is because you do not know what the police know in terms of the investigation.

I assume for example that the Bish family must live northeast of Commins Pond because of the theory of the white car parked at the base of Commins Pond road near the car wash like the 48 hours episode suggests. That is why I thought it unique Mr. Bish said he could hear search dogs and helicopters because I think that would be towards the general direction of where Whiskey Hill is in Palmer, MA.

As for suspects I can guess all day long. I thought it strange on the Disappeared program Maggie Bish, Molly's mom, said that "he had brought a book over for her to look at swimsuits" so that made me think the parks commissioner guy knows where Molly Bish lives. So I am guessing he stopped by to see if she was at home before he called police? Again, I do not know since I am not privy to the same information as police. And maybe he did not feel it necessary to stop by the Bish residence. First aid kit open I think to myself person is injured and went to hospital. But we all think differently.

Then again, the sand truck person would be most likely in terms of the way I would think most abductions would take place. When I read how Elizabeth Smart's case was solved, that did not surprise me.

Until I saw the 48 hours episode I did not know how profiler John Kelly knew the police officer McGuigan. Now I know it is because they worked together on the Molly Bish case. And until I saw the Dark Minds episode about Molly Bish, how the police officer described there being bed sheets and other stuff up on Whiskey Hill, it made me think maybe Molly Bish's body was buried instead of placed there.

Unfortunately I do not think there has ever been a case that has been solved at Websleuths for this reason(other than Doe identifications). We are not investigators and that is what makes coming to any solid conclusions so difficult.

I think the saddest part about many of these murder and missing persons cases is that eventually they are not talked about anymore because there is not much left to talk about. Hopefully some new information will be uncovered that will lead to this case getting solved.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

Until I saw the 48 hours episode I did not know how profiler John Kelly knew the police officer McGuigan. Now I know it is because they worked together on the Molly Bish case. And until I saw the Dark Minds episode about Molly Bish, how the police officer described there being bed sheets and other stuff up on Whiskey Hill, it made me think maybe Molly Bish's body was buried instead of placed there.

That info about Whiskey Hill is news to me. Makes me think the place was a known dump site for locals and that the killer left her there like so much trash. If that's the case, then that leads me to the opposite conclusion of yours: he didn't care whether she was found or not. Once she was dead, he simply didn't have any further use for her and was so confident that he'd never be caught that he left her body someplace where it should have easily been found.

I'm also wondering, if there were bed sheets up there, maybe there was discarded furniture as well. In my town, we used to have a few places like that, and teenagers would go there to do typical lover's lane stuff, get high, etc. If Whiskey Hill was such a place, then we may actually be looking at a much younger, and more inexperienced killer than originally surmised, especially if he used the sheets to cover her initially (which we don't know, since the remains were scattered). The covering could have indicated remorse.

Alternately, we're looking for a sadist who wanted to scare the bejesus out of some kids and got off on the idea of the body being found. This kind of killer (and I believe it's entirely possible) would likely have posed the corpse suggestively. The most infuriating thing, though, is we have no idea if any of this was done thanks to it being summer when Molly was abducted and the height of animal activity in that part of New England. However, I tend to think this is most likely because wasn't her swimsuit found hanging from a tree branch? Because that's a blatant taunt.

 

[somequestions]

That info about Whiskey Hill is news to me. Makes me think the place was a known dump site for locals and that the killer left her there like so much trash. If that's the case, then that leads me to the opposite conclusion of yours: he didn't care whether she was found or not. Once she was dead, he simply didn't have any further use for her and was so confident that he'd never be caught that he left her body someplace where it should have easily been found.

I'm also wondering, if there were bed sheets up there, maybe there was discarded furniture as well. In my town, we used to have a few places like that, and teenagers would go there to do typical lover's lane stuff, get high, etc. If Whiskey Hill was such a place, then we may actually be looking at a much younger, and more inexperienced killer than originally surmised, especially if he used the sheets to cover her initially (which we don't know, since the remains were scattered). The covering could have indicated remorse.

Alternately, we're looking for a sadist who wanted to scare the bejesus out of some kids and got off on the idea of the body being found. This kind of killer (and I believe it's entirely possible) would likely have posed the corpse suggestively. The most infuriating thing, though, is we have no idea if any of this was done thanks to it being summer when Molly was abducted and the height of animal activity in that part of New England. However, I tend to think this is most likely because wasn't her swimsuit found hanging from a tree branch? Because that's a blatant taunt.

This gets back to what I wrote before about knowing information for sure. Was her body buried on Whiskey Hill or was it not?

If it was not buried then I am more likely to agree with you that the killer did not care if the the body was found. I always got the impression from certain re-enactments of the crime scene that she was buried in a shallow grave. The Haunting Evidence show has the killer placing her body in a small hole he dug. I know that is based on psychics, but where she was found seems close to the road. I am surprised it took nearly 3 years to find the body if it was above ground. I got the impression the body was buried, erosion or animals, over time, led to it getting to the surface.

I think you can debate this case for a very long time. Who killed Molly Bish? Maybe it was a neighbor who lived near Commins Pond? Maybe it was a cemetery worker? Maybe it was Molly's boss? Maybe it was the sand truck guy? Maybe it was her boyfriend? Maybe it was Rodney Stanger? Maybe it was a family friend? Maybe it was the unknown guy in the white car?

Or maybe like the detective in the movie, The Pledge, we are all just debating something that is a moot point? Maybe the killer is in prison or dead? The answer to all my questions is I don't know.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

This gets back to what I wrote before about knowing information for sure. Was her body buried on Whiskey Hill or was it not?

If it was not buried then I am more likely to agree with you that the killer did not care if the the body was found. I always got the impression from certain re-enactments of the crime scene that she was buried in a shallow grave. The Haunting Evidence show has the killer placing her body in a small hole he dug. I know that is based on psychics, but where she was found seems close to the road. I am surprised it took nearly 3 years to find the body if it was above ground. I got the impression the body was buried, erosion or animals, over time, led to it getting to the surface.

I think you can debate this case for a very long time. Who killed Molly Bish? Maybe it was a neighbor who lived near Commins Pond? Maybe it was a cemetery worker? Maybe it was Molly's boss? Maybe it was the sand truck guy? Maybe it was her boyfriend? Maybe it was Rodney Stanger? Maybe it was a family friend? Maybe it was the unknown guy in the white car?

Or maybe like the detective in the movie, The Pledge, we are all just debating something that is a moot point? Maybe the killer is in prison or dead? The answer to all my questions is I don't know.

Well, of all the suspects I listed, only two are known killers: Stanger and DeoJay. Of those two, only one is known to have preyed on strangers and, incidentally, he’s the only one we can say for certain was a serial criminal. That’s Scott DeoJay.

There’s a lot of “I don’t know”s involved in this case but what pretty much all the investigators seem to agree on is that this was an organized offender who’d have behaved in this way prior to the crime and following it (provided he was free to do so).

I’ve heard there are plans to test the DNA from the Lisa Ziegert murder against the physical evidence in the Bish case. While I think it’s probably Stanger, I’m with you on one point: we need to consider others as well.


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[OldSteve]

Really good discussion and back and forth Pettibon Junction and somequestions! I agree about our not knowing all that LE knows; placing us at a big disadvantage.

I wonder why, considering it was one of the most intensive searches, Molly was not found as a result - so I'm thinking she was moved sometime after all the searches were done, and purposely placed someplace where she was likely to be found, but also where in might appear she was there all along...

 

[somequestions]

Really good discussion and back and forth Pettibon Junction and somequestions! I agree about our not knowing all that LE knows; placing us at a big disadvantage.

I wonder why, considering it was one of the most intensive searches, Molly was not found as a result - so I'm thinking she was moved sometime after all the searches were done, and purposely placed someplace where she was likely to be found, but also where in might appear she was there all along...

I actually considered this very theory about Molly Bish's case, but if she were in a shed for example, that would not be a bright shining day for law enforcement who used search dogs to look for her.

I keep coming back to Commins Pond and St. Paul's Cemetery(I think this is the name). I keep thinking that whoever it was had to have a very good knowledge of the layout of both areas in order to pull this off. So did someone jog between those two areas, walk their dogs, use that path when they did garbage collection, etc.? Without actually having seen the area it is hard to tell how this person would have pulled it off. In some ways when I look at it on a map, it looks like it is a long walk to go up the hill to the cemetery where the car was parked. In other ways it looked like on 48 hours when Mr. Bish did it that you just walk up the hill and then you run right into the path of where the white car would have been parked. So I don't know.

The only commonality I could come up with between the two places looking them up online is that they seem old. And if the killer was as organized as people think, then what type of place would they work at? When I think about being organized and an old place where people might know about the places in town I think of historical society or the library. I know it is not like you can go to the library and ask any of the guys that work there, "Hey did you kidnap and murder Molly Bish?"

I guess if I was an investigator I would have gone to the library just to talk to the people that work there.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

And if the killer was as organized as people think, then what type of place would they work at?

Generally speaking, organized killers are the type who can hold down a job. Salaried work, in other words. That could really mean anything. The more disorganized the killer, the less regular the work schedule and the more checkered job history. That's really all it comes down to.

As for the state of the remains, I'll say it again: she may have been held somewhere for a short time after she was killed and was certainly murdered at a secondary crime scene (Whiskey Hill being the tertiary scene). However, I don't think her body was kept anywhere after the fact, nor was she buried. The level of decomposition and the distribution of the skeletal remains point strongly toward her being left above ground and scavenged by animals. For example, coyotes are extremely common out here and are known to raid shallow graves for the remains of pets or livestock. It's not pleasant to think about, but it's exactly what happens.

 

[colette]

If bed sheets were found with her body it changes some things for me. It means she was taken to a home and killed on a bed and folded up in the sheets. Then taken and dumped. I had thought the abductor had taken her to a remote spot and assulted/killed her there. There might be some evidence still in the home if LE can ever find it.

 

[somequestions]

If bed sheets were found with her body it changes some things for me. It means she was taken to a home and killed on a bed and folded up in the sheets. Then taken and dumped. I had thought the abductor had taken her to a remote spot and assulted/killed her there. There might be some evidence still in the home if LE can ever find it.

I think on the episode of Dark Minds about Molly Bish's case what the police officer that investigated Molly's case meant was that the area where her bones were found was an area where they have found other random items like bed sheets and mattresses. I think it was a figure of speech. Basically the site where Molly Bish's body was found, Whiskey Hill, was near a road and trash and other debris may have collected on that spot. Today from what I read it is home to a race track.

 

[somequestions]

One thing I have never understood about the re-enactments of Molly Bish's case like that of the Dark Minds episode is why does the killer have to be hiding in the woods? Why can he not be on the beach?

According to the witness statement on 48 hours, most of Molly Bish's stuff was set up with the backpack being behind her stuff on the bench. I personally think she would have put that nearer her stuff if she were fully set up instead of leaving it there where kids might grab or move it.

I saw this interesting video about how not to get mugged. They ask a criminal what they look for when going to grab a person to take their stuff. The criminal said they will usually ask the person the time or for directions, anything to get you to look down and take your attention away. And then you think about this case and how many times Molly Bish had to look down, whether to get something from her back pack or to set up her chair or to take off her sandals. The theory behind the first aid kit is a good one, but it seems like there were so many other good chances beforehand.

To explain how any criminal thinks will always be difficult. It just made me think that maybe the person arrived later and was not waiting in the woods. I guess that would fit with the white car waiting for Maggie Bish to leave and then driving to the cemetery. He does not grab Molly Bish right away because he had to wait to see if her mother was gone, then drove there, then went down to the beach to kidnap her.

I remember hearing on one of these tv shows that a witness said he saw the white car in the Commins Pond parking lot a few minutes before Molly Bish arrived for her shift. But then you have the witness on 48 hours who said the car was waiting at the end of Commins Pond Road. White cars are here there everywhere in this case. That would have to be very frustrating when trying to figure out this case.

Ok, well I think I am out of theories.

 

[OldSteve]

When I read about Molly, I think about poor Sierra Lamar ... Both young, both alone and vulnerable..... Sierra, waiting alone on a desolate corner with nothing nearby waiting for her school bus; Molly similarly alone at the pond in the woods.
Both abductions seemed to be planned.
Considering the remoteness of Molly's location at the pond, who would know about it........ Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this was Molly's first day of job there, so how would someone know there was going to be a young female lifeguard there? Was this also the first day the pond was open for swimming? I wonder if mention of this was made in any of the local newspapers - that the pond was going to open on such an such a day and that there would be a lifeguard there...