VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #13

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I remember back when this first happened, Karen’s attorney wasn’t even disputing that his client had hit John. He said it was an accident, and said she had been overcharged.

Yes, she was likely drunk and confused, but she did believe she hit him, which is why her attorney would have taken that tact.

It wasn’t until later this conspiracy yarn was spun, which I think was a brilliant strategy, supported by sloppy police work and an incredible bunch of liars.

I have to make way more leaps to believe the latter than I do the former. But there are massive issues that will no matter what, leave what happened open to debate for me.

So “more probable than not,” but not “beyond a reasonable doubt.”

How do you feel about the "FBI Guys" and their testimony?
 
I'm going to Google for early reports regarding this.

When it first happened, maybe they didn't have all the information. Also, you're a cop, right?

MOO - when this first happened and the articles were starting to come out, I thought she was too intoxicated at the time to know whether she hit him or not. May have even believed she did hit him. I felt that a thorough investigation would be needed to confirm her belief.
 
Was no one on the prosecution side ever able to address where the dog bites/scratches/etc., on in his arm came from? Did the prosecution claim they were from the tail light all along? Even after it was stated that experts didn't feel a tail light could make those kinds of marks.

And is it true that Chloe (the dog) was rehomed *the next day*? Do we have proof of that? Because rehoming a dog means you know who you gave it to, and if they ever had detected dog DNA on his shirt, skin, etc., they could have tracked Chloe down for analysis but I'm just wondering if the rehoming was a story and that Chloe is no longer on this planet.
It was NOT the next day. Alberts/McCabes had nothing to worry about when Proctor was assigned to the case and they knew it. He kept in communication with brother Kevin Albert at Canton PD so they would always be a step ahead.
 
RSBM

Perhaps related or not, what then is your take on all the phone shenanigans on the part of Albert McCabe Higgins?
It's at best a terrible look, and adds to how strange their overall behavior was. No one is credible, no one can answer direct questions, no one can remember details; I've never seen anything like it. Whatever the reason for this behavior, it destroyed any chance of figuring out precisely what happened that night.

And at worst, there's a reason for this stuff. I don't have anything nice to say about most of them, so I won't say it.
 
If JOK's injuries did not include the ripped up shredded right arm, I could consider that the rest of his injuries may have come from being a victim of a hit and run. The arm injuries just did not fit at all with that scenario . It was cut and dried for me once I saw the picture of his arm during Opening Statements.

The " Look over there" comment by A Jackson was perfect today. The MSP completely ignored the arm. It wasn't there. The 'big blue wall ' was erected. The inconsistencies didn't matter...until it did. And their best explanation was Trooper Paul's theory? Because it just did? Those magical bubbled edged tail light pieces just hanging still in a momentary time gap at the point of impact, then scraping the right arm in a pattern? .....and stuff. ????

I pray common sense prevails with this jury.
 
I just got off work so I haven't been able to read all the posts yet. However, I want to comment on a few things.

Someone said earlier they felt Lally gas lit the jury. I've been thinking about that. Gaslighting is powerful, it's deceptive, sneaky and deadly coy.

We already know gaslighting someone is where a person(s) makes you doubt yourself or question your account of an incident.

Something happened a few years ago to one of my daughters, and I feel the same thing happened to KR.

Long story short my daughter was staying the weekend with my sister. My sister was buzzed and talked my daughter into going down to the gas station to buy her another 12 pack of beer. In the process my daughter backed into someone, the police were called, it was a disaster.

I tried to explain to my daughter and my sister that after hearing everything my daughter was not in the wrong it wasn't her fault. However, after listening to everything and reading the police report I was asked by insurance to travel to that town and take pictures of that gas station.

When I got there and I took the pictures that's when I really realized it was actually impossible for my daughter to hit this woman. (The woman hit her) After I sent my pics and my statement the case was dropped.

My daughter was dead set that she hit the other woman and that it was her fault. That's it, dead set!! And she absolutely would not listen to me. But, later what I figured out is, after my daughter got back to my sister's and she told her what happened, my sister went on for the next 2-3 hours berating her. She was yelling at her mocking her. Actually it went on for weeks.

The bottom line was my sister felt guilty for sending her to go get more beer. Sooo to make herself feel better she berated my daughter. She gaslit my daughter. As long as my daughter felt it was her fault then my sister escaped guilt.

I feel strongly the same thing happened to KR. She was gaslit into believing she hit him and killed him. She was made to doubt her situation and question her own account of the incident. She was an easy target, and already said because of the drinking she couldn't remember the night before.

Listen again to JM's testimony, the 911 call and her courtroom stare downs. She even mocked her on the 911 call saying: "She doesn't even have a blankets in her car?!"

Whatever happened in that house I don't think it was meant to go that far. However KR was an easy target. After she got to the scene, you can literally see the gas lighting penetrating the crime scene and how KR was reacting to it. By the time she left there she was convinced she hit him.

Gaslighting and corrosive control is deadly yet very very real. And it was used in self preservation for those in that were in that house that night.
 
It's at best a terrible look, and adds to how strange their overall behavior was. No one is credible, no one can answer direct questions, no one can remember details; I've never seen anything like it. Whatever the reason for this behavior, it destroyed any chance of figuring out precisely what happened that night.

And at worst, there's a reason for this stuff. I don't have anything nice to say about most of them, so I won't say it.
Without maligning their character though, do you have an opinion as to the circumstances around the McCabe, Albert, Higgins phone shenanigans, and also concerning Proctor's immediate assessment of Karen as evidenced in his text exchange?
 
I just got off work so I haven't been able to read all the posts yet. However, I want to comment on a few things.

Someone said earlier they felt Lally gas lit the jury. I've been thinking about that. Gaslighting is powerful, it's deceptive, sneaky and deadly coy.

We already know gaslighting someone is where a person(s) makes you doubt yourself or question your account of an incident.

Something happened a few years ago to one of my daughters, and I feel the same thing happened to KR.

Long story short my daughter was staying the weekend with my sister. My sister was buzzed and talked my daughter into going down to the gas station to buy her another 12 pack of beer. In the process my daughter backed into someone, the police were called, it was a disaster.

I tried to explain to my daughter and my sister that after hearing everything my daughter was not in the wrong it wasn't her fault. However, after listening to everything and reading the police report I was asked by insurance to travel to that town and take pictures of that gas station.

When I got there and I took the pictures that's when I really realized it was actually impossible for my daughter to hit this woman. (The woman hit her) After I sent my pics and my statement the case was dropped.

My daughter was dead set that she hit the other woman and that it was her fault. That's it, dead set!! And she absolutely would not listen to me. But, later what I figured out is, after my daughter got back to my sister's and she told her what happened, my sister went on for the next 2-3 hours berating her. She was yelling at her mocking her. Actually it went on for weeks.

The bottom line was my sister felt guilty for sending her to go get more beer. Sooo to make herself feel better she berated my daughter. She gaslit my daughter. As long as my daughter felt it was her fault then my sister escaped guilt.

I feel strongly the same thing happened to KR. She was gaslit into believing she hit him and killed him. She was made to doubt her situation and question her own account of the incident. She was an easy target, and already said because of the drinking she couldn't remember the night before.

Listen again to JM's testimony, the 911 call and her courtroom stare downs. She even mocked her on the 911 call saying: "She doesn't even have a blankets in her car?!"

Whatever happened in that house I don't think it was meant to go that far. However KR was an easy target. After she got to the scene, you can literally see the gas lighting penetrating the crime scene and how KR was reacting to it. By the time she left there she was convinced she hit him.

Gaslighting and corrosive control is deadly yet very very real. And it was used in self preservation for those in that were in that house that night.
And @schooling is right on target. I hope she doesn't mind that I say, that I believe these two comments work hand in hand. And that is exactly what happened.
 
I'm going to Google for early reports regarding this.

When it first happened, maybe they didn't have all the information. Also, you're a cop, right?

I think this is the one- her attorney talked about getting the charges reduced.
 
I know this is a very inopportune time to ask this, but, where did they find all the taillight pieces in the A’s front yard. On or in the snow? Kerry Roberts testified that when the paramedics moved JOK there was grass underneath him. I listened to part of her testimony yesterday and that stuck out to me. If his arm was cut up from the tailight pieces (at least partly) at the time he was supposedly struck then wouldn’t the tailight pieces be on the grass? I thought they eventually “discovered” them later on the snow. Not buried underneath the snow. Moo and tia!
As far as I recall, they were found over approximately 6 weeks under the snow.
 
I believe she is guilty, But I can absolutely see how the Jury finds reasonable doubt. Karen Read had excellent defense attorneys and completely outmatched the DA.
And, let's be honest. These were about the worst prosecution witnesses, individually and collectively, that I've ever seen assembled in one trial. moo
 
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It was NOT the next day. Alberts/McCabes had nothing to worry about when Proctor was assigned to the case and they knew it. He kept in communication with brother Kevin Albert at Canton PD so they would always be a step ahead.
Thanks for the clarification. It was somewhere on this fast moving thread in the past several days that I had read she was rehomed the next day.
 
Handcuffed and taken away by the fbi?
I had to step away halfway thru AJ’s closing.
So I am rewatching and seeing the same thing as earlier.
BA looked beyond uncomfortable in the courtroom today. His eyes darting, exhausted.
IMO he just looked so guilty. He looked like he was afraid he might be cuffed and led away.
All JMO.
 
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