VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #13

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Without maligning their character though, do you have an opinion as to the circumstances around the McCabe, Albert, Higgins phone shenanigans, and also concerning Proctor's immediate assessment of Karen as evidenced in his text exchange?
What, you don't believe multiple people were butt dialing one another accidentally around the time of the murder?

Me neither. There are so many things here that are inexplicable. Proctor had his mind made up right away (at best), and it's clear he hated her. He's getting what he deserves, and I believe much more is coming.
 
I just got off work so I haven't been able to read all the posts yet. However, I want to comment on a few things.

Someone said earlier they felt Lally gas lit the jury. I've been thinking about that. Gaslighting is powerful, it's deceptive, sneaky and deadly coy.

We already know gaslighting someone is where a person(s) makes you doubt yourself or question your account of an incident.

Something happened a few years ago to one of my daughters, and I feel the same thing happened to KR.

Long story short my daughter was staying the weekend with my sister. My sister was buzzed and talked my daughter into going down to the gas station to buy her another 12 pack of beer. In the process my daughter backed into someone, the police were called, it was a disaster.

I tried to explain to my daughter and my sister that after hearing everything my daughter was not in the wrong it wasn't her fault. However, after listening to everything and reading the police report I was asked by insurance to travel to that town and take pictures of that gas station.

When I got there and I took the pictures that's when I really realized it was actually impossible for my daughter to hit this woman. (The woman hit her) After I sent my pics and my statement the case was dropped.

My daughter was dead set that she hit the other woman and that it was her fault. That's it, dead set!! And she absolutely would not listen to me. But, later what I figured out is, after my daughter got back to my sister's and she told her what happened, my sister went on for the next 2-3 hours berating her. She was yelling at her mocking her. Actually it went on for weeks.

The bottom line was my sister felt guilty for sending her to go get more beer. Sooo to make herself feel better she berated my daughter. She gaslit my daughter. As long as my daughter felt it was her fault then my sister escaped guilt.

I feel strongly the same thing happened to KR. She was gaslit into believing she hit him and killed him. She was made to doubt her situation and question her own account of the incident. She was an easy target, and already said because of the drinking she couldn't remember the night before.

Listen again to JM's testimony, the 911 call and her courtroom stare downs. She even mocked her on the 911 call saying: "She doesn't even have a blankets in her car?!"

Whatever happened in that house I don't think it was meant to go that far. However KR was an easy target. After she got to the scene, you can literally see the gas lighting penetrating the crime scene and how KR was reacting to it. By the time she left there she was convinced she hit him.

Gaslighting and corrosive control is deadly yet very very real. And it was used in self preservation for those in that were in that house that night.
The ins co asked you to take photos of the station! Omg.
 
I just got off work so I haven't been able to read all the posts yet. However, I want to comment on a few things.

Someone said earlier they felt Lally gas lit the jury. I've been thinking about that. Gaslighting is powerful, it's deceptive, sneaky and deadly coy.

We already know gaslighting someone is where a person(s) makes you doubt yourself or question your account of an incident.

Something happened a few years ago to one of my daughters, and I feel the same thing happened to KR.

Long story short my daughter was staying the weekend with my sister. My sister was buzzed and talked my daughter into going down to the gas station to buy her another 12 pack of beer. In the process my daughter backed into someone, the police were called, it was a disaster.

I tried to explain to my daughter and my sister that after hearing everything my daughter was not in the wrong it wasn't her fault. However, after listening to everything and reading the police report I was asked by insurance to travel to that town and take pictures of that gas station.

When I got there and I took the pictures that's when I really realized it was actually impossible for my daughter to hit this woman. (The woman hit her) After I sent my pics and my statement the case was dropped.

My daughter was dead set that she hit the other woman and that it was her fault. That's it, dead set!! And she absolutely would not listen to me. But, later what I figured out is, after my daughter got back to my sister's and she told her what happened, my sister went on for the next 2-3 hours berating her. She was yelling at her mocking her. Actually it went on for weeks.

The bottom line was my sister felt guilty for sending her to go get more beer. Sooo to make herself feel better she berated my daughter. She gaslit my daughter. As long as my daughter felt it was her fault then my sister escaped guilt.

I feel strongly the same thing happened to KR. She was gaslit into believing she hit him and killed him. She was made to doubt her situation and question her own account of the incident. She was an easy target, and already said because of the drinking she couldn't remember the night before.

Listen again to JM's testimony, the 911 call and her courtroom stare downs. She even mocked her on the 911 call saying: "She doesn't even have a blankets in her car?!"

Whatever happened in that house I don't think it was meant to go that far. However KR was an easy target. After she got to the scene, you can literally see the gas lighting penetrating the crime scene and how KR was reacting to it. By the time she left there she was convinced she hit him.

Gaslighting and corrosive control is deadly yet very very real. And it was used in self preservation for those in that were in that house that night.
I think KR was hysterical and in shock when JOK was found dead. I do not think she did herself any favors saying anything because everything she said was used against her! The testimony we have about what she said and did is from others and it is "remembered" not on tape or otherwise recorded. I continue to think it was weird how insistent people were that JOK go to the after party...but that is just IMO odd.
 
I think KR was hysterical and in shock when JOK was found dead. I do not think she did herself any favors saying anything because everything she said was used against her! The testimony we have about what she said and did is from others and it is "remembered" not on tape or otherwise recorded. I continue to think it was weird how insistent people were that JOK go to the after party...but that is just IMO odd.
Sometimes I wonder if the excited utterance exception should be disregarded for drunk people.
 
SNIPPED
I continue to think it was weird how insistent people were that JOK go to the after party...but that is just IMO odd.
Yes, especially when you consider these people were not besties at all, mainly JO knew Jen MC due to niece/daughter relationship.

It is really strange that both Higgins and Jen McCabe wanted him there so badly. As far as I have seen, McCabe and Higgins had no real relationship either, so that doubles the weirdness.
 
Yes, especially when you consider these people were not besties at all, mainly JO knew Jen MC due to niece/daughter relationship.

It is really strange that both Higgins and Jen McCabe wanted him there so badly. As far as I have seen, McCabe and Higgins had no real relationship either, so that doubles the weirdness.
Screams "a set up" to me.
 
What, you don't believe multiple people were butt dialing one another accidentally around the time of the murder?

Me neither. There are so many things here that are inexplicable. Proctor had his mind made up right away (at best), and it's clear he hated her. He's getting what he deserves, and I believe much more is coming.
For sure.
 
I think KR was hysterical and in shock when JOK was found dead. I do not think she did herself any favors saying anything because everything she said was used against her! The testimony we have about what she said and did is from others and it is "remembered" not on tape or otherwise recorded. I continue to think it was weird how insistent people were that JOK go to the after party...but that is just IMO odd.
And further support along these lines IMO, in the last few days there was IIRC an extended version of I believe the first (or an early) 911 call made in this case. And I believe JMc made that call, and if so her demeanor in that call IMO was very flat. I believe she referred to JOK as ‘a man’ ‘laying in the snow’ or words to that effect. She didn’t indicate that he was a police officer; and just seemed almost in an unalarmed and non emotional state. I don’t recall the time of that call but it came across as quite odd. IIRC you can also hear some of KR words, anguish, and alarm and confusion, shock, or fear in the background of that same call IMO. MOO

ETA… link for a CourtTV compilation of the calls:

 
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you know as I saw Brian Albert sitting there with Jen and Colin I thought... that group will ultimately get what they want out of this....used KR to derail any serious investigation and deflect the guilt from the real killer. The O'Keefe family will still now have no answers. I think they are sitting there in front of the people that know what happened to John. How ironic and sad.
 
How are you all going to keep track of when the verdict comes in? I can’t be on here all the time and I don’t wanna miss it. Any ideas?
If you are on Twitter/X, Law & Crime has a verdict account (@LawCrimeVerdict) that is great. Just follow them and turn on notifications. The sole purpose of that account is verdict alerts.
 
And Lally lied...
He said there was no other dna on JO'S clothing. There were 3 dna profiles in his blood on his jeans.

He also said KR deleted Ring footage, went back to 34F in the middle of the night so knew where JOK was, and she admitted to murdering him by wearing shoes in the house. All those tall tales had me expecting Paul Bunyon to walk into the court room. JMO
 
And Lally lied...
He said there was no other dna on JO'S clothing. There were 3 dna profiles in his blood on his jeans.
Yeah. I don't understand how a lawyer can get away with that during a closing argument. He also talked about the dimples on the taillight. NOBODY mentioned that during the trial. And he misquoted KR during his closing.
 
I remember back when this first happened, Karen’s attorney wasn’t even disputing that his client had hit John. He said it was an accident, and said she had been overcharged.

Yes, she was likely drunk and confused, but she did believe she hit him, which is why her attorney would have taken that tact.

It wasn’t until later this conspiracy yarn was spun, which I think was a brilliant strategy, supported by sloppy police work and an incredible bunch of liars.

I have to make way more leaps to believe the latter than I do the former. But there are massive issues that will no matter what, leave what happened open to debate for me.

So “more probable than not,” but not “beyond a reasonable doubt.”
Lally introduced a recording during the trial of KR saying that JO was beaten up by the Alberts and the cops were ignoring his severe injuries to focus on her cracked taillight, I can’t remember the exact date but it had to have been from the day she was arrested at the latest, so 3 days after. The “conspiracy” theory had been there from the beginning and I can’t understand why Lally wanted that video played for the jury.

Also, early on the police told the media they have video footage of her hitting JO. I’m certain that’s where Yanetti’s comments stemmed from
 
It was pretty gross Albert was there sitting front and centre after not coming out of his house and not going to the funeral, gross and disgusting JMO

It was really distasteful. They have clearly decided to lean into their persecuted victim roles. This wasn’t done to benefit the O’Keefes in some way. The intention was to try to add legitimacy to the Albert/McCay stories after being caught in so many lies.

It takes a real piece of work to purposefully divert attention to themselves and away from the trial seeking justice for their supposed good friend and the actual victim.
 
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I had to step away halfway thru AJ’s closing.
So I am rewatching and seeing the same thing as earlier.
BA looked beyond uncomfortable in the courtroom today. His eyes darting, exhausted.
IMO he just looked so guilty. He looked like he was afraid he might be cuffed and led away.
All JMO.
He needed to POWDER his nose again.
 
I just got off work so I haven't been able to read all the posts yet. However, I want to comment on a few things.

Someone said earlier they felt Lally gas lit the jury. I've been thinking about that. Gaslighting is powerful, it's deceptive, sneaky and deadly coy.

We already know gaslighting someone is where a person(s) makes you doubt yourself or question your account of an incident.

Something happened a few years ago to one of my daughters, and I feel the same thing happened to KR.

Long story short my daughter was staying the weekend with my sister. My sister was buzzed and talked my daughter into going down to the gas station to buy her another 12 pack of beer. In the process my daughter backed into someone, the police were called, it was a disaster.

I tried to explain to my daughter and my sister that after hearing everything my daughter was not in the wrong it wasn't her fault. However, after listening to everything and reading the police report I was asked by insurance to travel to that town and take pictures of that gas station.

When I got there and I took the pictures that's when I really realized it was actually impossible for my daughter to hit this woman. (The woman hit her) After I sent my pics and my statement the case was dropped.

My daughter was dead set that she hit the other woman and that it was her fault. That's it, dead set!! And she absolutely would not listen to me. But, later what I figured out is, after my daughter got back to my sister's and she told her what happened, my sister went on for the next 2-3 hours berating her. She was yelling at her mocking her. Actually it went on for weeks.

The bottom line was my sister felt guilty for sending her to go get more beer. Sooo to make herself feel better she berated my daughter. She gaslit my daughter. As long as my daughter felt it was her fault then my sister escaped guilt.

I feel strongly the same thing happened to KR. She was gaslit into believing she hit him and killed him. She was made to doubt her situation and question her own account of the incident. She was an easy target, and already said because of the drinking she couldn't remember the night before.

Listen again to JM's testimony, the 911 call and her courtroom stare downs. She even mocked her on the 911 call saying: "She doesn't even have a blankets in her car?!"

Whatever happened in that house I don't think it was meant to go that far. However KR was an easy target. After she got to the scene, you can literally see the gas lighting penetrating the crime scene and how KR was reacting to it. By the time she left there she was convinced she hit him.

Gaslighting and corrosive control is deadly yet very very real. And it was used in self preservation for those in that were in that house that night.
It's a woman thing. When someone bumps into you, you automatically say "Oh...I'm sorry."
 
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