VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #14

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
well most importantly the jury is still out.

So as unpopular as the prosecution case is around here the people who matter are thinking about it HARD.

Every day that passes makes me more confidant of a manslaughter conviction.
Or a hung jury.
Not looking positive for a not guilty IMO.

moo
Completely agree, the Jury are going through the facts piece by piece, IMO. Also agree it's not the slam dunk that the Defense, KR and all her supporters were so certain off.
 
I am not a tech expert by any means, far from it, but my general understanding is they have comparable systems - gyrometer, altimeter, and accelerometer that work together to identify movements, including steps. An iPhone carried in a hip pocket is more accurate acting as a pedometer than a watch is only because your hand movements won't be measured if you are say pushing a grocery cart (why a lot of women it seems hold on to their carts with only one hand, because they want their step credits), or walking with your hand steady in a pocket and not swinging your arm to trigger the accelerometer. And similarly extra steps may be credited if you are an animated talker and flail your arms around a lot, or do some other activity where large arm motions may be counted erroneously towards steps: kneading bread or standing and playing ping pong for example. With ping pong you may not be walking much but a watch will count more "steps" than the phone that is in a hip pocket doing the same activity because you're swinging at a ping pong ball regularly but not necessarily taking a lot of full steps. Then add GPS location tracking to the other tools and that's how they both know you're moving at 30 or 65 MPH in a car and not out on a casual 2.0 mph walk, or 6.0 mph run.

Another thing apple health does is estimates step length as you go about your day, which normally is about 0.4 of someone's height but can vary especially with short or long legged folks. But it's typically consistent as it's averaged dozens of times a day when walking on level ground outside. So theres a record of what JO's average step length has been, somewhere in his health data. Was anything said about the nearly doubled step length of his phone at one point"? 1.992 feet per step for 170 steps at 12:21 vs 3.598 feet per step for 80 steps at 12:24? These are actual steps counted, based on triggering an accelerometer in his phone 170 or 80 times, not flying in the air or riding in a car once. That doesn't seem like the same person casually walking with his phone at 12:24 as it was at 12:21 IMO.

The 3.598 feet per step would be about 1,467.5 steps per mile, which is less than a 10 minute mile running pace for a 6'2" male per the American College of Sports Medicine. Seems someone was sprinting.
View attachment 513859



Related to this particular situation where we are questioning the cell phone location, there's also the concept of Bayesian probability - a measure of believability or confidence that an individual may possess about the occurrence of a particular event. That's how and why that "blue circle" changes sizes when you locate yourself on a mapping app. The smaller the circle or blue dot, the stronger the signal and confidence (probability) the phone is in that circle or spot. But confidence level changes as information is continually gathered, and with cellphone signal and wifi strength especially. When the blue circle is large it's giving an estimate that it's in that area based on signal strength but other info as well. Such as if you're moving 40 MPH, the dot is likely going to be placed on the road moving along due to probability, and not in the forest you're driving next to. If you're sitting in your home as I am, the circle should be small because I have good cell signals and wifi and spend a lot of time at home, it knows this. And sometimes it pinpoints me in the correct corner of the house. And sometimes (usually) the circle is big enough it looks like I could be in my neighbors house, as it currently thinks I could be. But I am not, nor have I ever. It's always adjusting and guessing, and it's never 100% accurate. Who hasn't panicked when they think their kids car is in a ditch because the gps puts them there and it hasn't moved in ten minutes and then you go check on your kid only to find they are not in said ditch and did in fact make it to practice a half mile away from the ditch and the gps didn't update just because the signal was weak and you feel stupid because your kid was just ignoring your texts again? Just me? Probably.

Anyhoo, I'm off the rails now from the original question and I have not watched or read everything but I also found it unbelievable the defense didn't discuss how these locating probability laws work to potentially place his phone in the house, not the yard. Unless I missed that. So when it was argued the blue circle didn't put him in the house, I disagree, because the blue circle did in fact overlap part of the house. I can't find that photo for some reason if anyone has it. Assuming geolocating is turned on, a cell phone is always taking in information and making a best GUESS to pinpoint its location, based on prior experiences and signal strength. Geolocating is just probabilities, and they will change when new evidence is brought to light. Sit and watch your location on a map for bit and you'll see the circle get bigger and smaller as it gathers info and you're not even moving. My guess is the one blue circle picture they used (or at least I saw) was the one that was most favorable to him not entering the house, and yet it still overlapped part of the house. And if the phone was in the basement, well we all can probably accept that the signal strength isn't going to be as great in a basement as it would be in a front yard without walls interfering. I'd expect that circle to be a lot smaller if the phone was in fact never in the house as it would likely have a stronger cell signal and I doubt a cop has free open auto connect wifi for JO's phone to use be more accurate to pinpoint the phone location.

Sorry for the ramble, no idea if these things were covered here previously, I can't keep up. Hope this makes sense, I'm a wee tired.

MOO IMO some professional, some not.
Are you saying literally it doesn't seem like the same person at 12:24 as it was at 12:21? Or are you saying JO doesn't seem to be behaving at 12:24 as he was at 12:21? TIA
 
I’ve wondered if there was some actual rather innocent explanation for what happened, perhaps he was messing around on the treadmill, tripped backwards, the dog went crazy, he hits his head, he’s surrounded by a bunch of drunk people who then freak out.

Why? Well, drunk people aren’t exactly rational. Maybe CA punched JO while he was messing around on the treadmill. JO falls backwards. No intent to kill him but dead he is. Which is a problem. And we’ve got a house full of drunk cops, multiple of them related to CA, obviously wanting to protect “just a kid”, especially if it wasn’t some deliberate attack meant to truly harm JO.

So now they’re all in a panic. Drunk and trying to figure out a plan. Maybe being hit by a car never crossed their minds. But they knew he at least needed to be not inside the house. So out on the lawn he goes. Maybe the original plan was he must’ve tripped and hit his head. How sad. Case closed.

Then hysterical KR shows up screaming and carrying on about how maybe she hit him, did I hit him? OMG, what if I hit him? Etc. It would’ve seemed like a dream come true. Let her take the fall. Case closed.

Enter Proctor who wants to help along the case so he can be the hero who solved a fellow officers death. Throw some glass and plastic around. Toss out the shoe at the curb that came off on the treadmill fiasco. Etc etc.

They never expected any of this to get this far. But once the first lies were told, they’re locked in. They can’t rewind and so, look, just kidding, what really happened is this…
Ok, how about this scenario: The whole treadmill incident happens as you say, being drunk he falls backwards, which freaks out the dog (let's say he falls onto the dog, frightening her), he gets bitten/scratched, manages to get up and wander, again, drunkenly, out of the house, where he then passes out on the lawn and succumbs to his injury. People in the house either weren't in the basement when it happened (he may have been alone briefly) or underestimated what happened, if they saw it. Problem with this scenario is that one of the docs said that the blow to his head would have rendered him immediately unconscious....UGH!
 
Do you have a link for this please?
Canton police confirmed on Monday that two Canton residents have been charged with assault and battery on Kearney after Sunday's scuffle. They were identified as Jillian Daniels and James Farris.

Daniels has ties to the Albert family, and according to statements made in court by Trooper Michael Proctor, the former lead investigator of the case, Daniels is also close friends with his sister, Courtney. NBC10 Boston has attempted to reach out to Daniels for comment and have not heard back.
 
I'm back to being cautiously optimistic. The jury has a ton to talk about, because of there being so many witnesses. If they all took diligent notes throughout the trial, then it could be that even just doing their initial review of the evidence might've taken a long time.

Therefore, it was perhaps unreasonable for me to think that we'd get a rapid acquittal, when jury has so much to go over.

I find the engineering testimony and the medical testimony to be the most persuasive and most important evidence of the whole case, but all of that came in at the end. Even the government didn't have their medical examiner testify until the very end of their turn. And so, it might be taking the jury a long time to get to that part.

It doesn't matter how long the process takes, as long as it ultimately delivers the correct result.
 
The problem is he lied.
Lally lied...
During closing arguments he said there was no other dna on JO'S clothing. There were 3 dna profiles in his blood on his jeans.
He wasn't factual.

I had forgotten about this! Adding to my list of undelivered Lally claims/promises.
 
Completely agree, the Jury are going through the facts piece by piece, IMO. Also agree it's not the slam dunk that the Defense, KR and all her supporters were so certain off.

Do you have some links to people saying this was a slam dunk? I have seen zero of that and it's not for lack of looking. TIA
 
@BienickWCVB

Paul O'Keefe tells me his family was at a nearby location in Dedham today when 25-30 people, many wearing pink, showed up and starting filming and taking pictures. He says the victim's family felt harassed and intimidated.


6:34 PM · Jun 27, 2024


From Paul O’Keefe: “Slight correction. I said that they showed up to harass us and try to intimidate us but we are not intimidated by them at all.”


10:51 PM · Jun 27, 2024


Here is the Dedham Police Department’s draft report about the incident Thursday at the VFW.

1719578922475.png1719578933080.png

 
Also, I may get jumped on for this but having the main witnesses in this case who are also front and centre of the defense’s theory, people who apparently never even attended John’s funeral, some who described him as merely an acquaintance, sit with the the O’Keefe family throughout closing arguments in front of the jury - IMO this should not have been allowed. It could be seen as an attempt to get a message across to the jury, no one had to say ‘but the victims family don’t believe this theory’, but that’s what the jury saw, in front of their eyes, a message that basically said ‘the defense theory is lies’. In a way that couldn’t have been clearer. It’s the judge’s courtroom she decides and her decision should be accepted (but not necessarily agreed with) and in this instance I think it wouldn’t have been wrong to say to those people ‘please, if you wish to watch today, could you please sit elsewhere in the courtroom but by all means sit amongst the victims family (handing out tissues nonetheless) for the verdict’.

Because that sent a subliminal yet very clear message to the jury that IMO could have possibly penalised KR and the defense. IMO that felt orchestrated and unnatural but the jury were given that impression loud and clear without a word being said. But I understand it’s a tricky thing to have to say and you don’t want to upset the family at an already horrendous time. Had they sat there every day or any other day for that matter it would be different though IMO.

To have the image of the victims family sat amongst the people the defense theorise may have been involved in JOK’s death being the last thing the jury see before the go to deliberate was not necessarily the right thing for at that exact time IMO….
I so agree with you. They were there, JMc, Brian Albert and co., sitting directly behind JO's brother and in the Jury's line of sight, in an attempt to intimidate jury. Unconsionable IMO.

There's probably no court rule that could have stopped them I suppose, but it is more revelation of who these people are and what they will resort to. I can only hope the jury took that away from the incident rather than feeling intimidated and under pressure to ignore their reason and the evidence. Evidence demonstrating beyond a reasonable doubt that KR is not guilty. Moo
 
@KristinaRex

Day 4 of jury deliberations in the #KarenReadTrial. I can assure anyone following me that most, if not all, rumors you are reading online about jury deliberations are not true. Jurors are fiercely protected at the courthouse and those who protect them would never leak info. (1/2)

What is true: 14.5 hours so far of potential deliberation. 6 men, 6 women. Jury has asked to leave at 3:30 both Wed and Thurs. They’ve asked one question: for a police SERT report. That is ALL we know about what’s going on behind closed doors. (2/2)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
146
Guests online
1,538
Total visitors
1,684

Forum statistics

Threads
606,372
Messages
18,202,703
Members
233,824
Latest member
Fat Cinnamon
Back
Top