MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #4

[DeDee]

The burden of proof is on the CW, not Karen Read.

Simple as.

Not JMO. Fact.

Why do we need a defense team then? Just sit back and hope the prosecution cannot meet its burden is laughable. Karen Reed is very active in her defense, if you haven't noticed.

MOO

 

[ch_13]

Why do we need a defense team then? Just sit back and hope the prosecution cannot meet its burden is laughable. Karen Reed is very active in her defense, if you haven't noticed.

MOO

Presumption of innocence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The presumption of innocence is a legal principle that every person accused of any crime is considered innocent until proven guilty. Under the presumption of innocence, the legal burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which must present compelling evidence to the trier of fact (a judge or a jury). If the prosecution does not prove the charges true, then the person is acquitted of the charges. The prosecution must in most cases prove that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If reasonable doubt remains, the accused must be acquitted. The opposite system is a presumption of guilt.
...

• Although the Constitution of the United States does not cite it explicitly, presumption of innocence is widely held to follow from the Fifth, Sixth, and Fourteenth Amendments. The case of Coffin v. United States (1895) established the presumption of innocence of persons accused of crimes. See also In re Winship.

 

[ch_13]

There was no reason to seek a search warrant for 34 FV since the girlfriend told them she hit him.

...

My response is quite clear. Why search a house when the CS is at edge of the road and the killer is standing next to his lifeless, frozen body screaming: "I hit him!" over and over again?

RSBM.

In Samantha Woll's murder case, they first arrested the wrong person. A friend of Samantha's said he felt "responsible" for her death and the cops took it for a confession. In actuality, he had nothing to do with her murder and they eventually released him. A month later they caught the actual murderer, a stranger to Woll.

They should have never made that first arrest on such flimsy evidence. However, at least the Detroit PD properly preserved the crime scene and continued investigating. They didn't get tunnel vision and focus on just one person due to some statement he made while upset.

And furthermore I should point out that there are plenty of reasons to believe that Read never said "I hit him". Starting with the fact that none of the cops who were in earshot heard her say it and the dashcam which was recording her yelling never picked it up.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

DeDee said:
It might not have been to your liking but Karen hasn't done one thing to prove she did not kill this guy, John O'Keefe.
End quote.

We are not changing a cornerstone of our justice system from innocent until proven guilty into prove you didn't do it.

 

[DeDee]

This reply is from the last thread by @Charlot123

MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #3

The situation when the court moves from a normal room to a tiny one is allegorical.

MOO: It was a banal case of blizzard and alcohol. Someone tried to turn it into the process of the era, something like Affaire Dreyfus, exposing police corruption and going higher. I suspect Yanetti’s ambition. (JA pulls his famous clients out of long prison terms, out of money but sends them into oblivion, this is his style.) However, Canton’s policemen are so average, the town is so blue-collar that no “villain “ accusation sticks. Mostly, Yanetti is not Picquard and Aidan Kearney is definitely not Emile Zola.

I watched amazed when the Defense chose the very small courtroom but now I understand why they did. It keeps the crowd out due to limited seating. Ms Read kept her eyes glued on Jen at the witness stand, some may call it "staring her down", every chance the camera showed KR during her testimony.

Ms Read chose Yanetti. Then, she selected Jackson. Both are highly successful attorneys with great results. They are doing her bidding her way by using their legal expertise and courtroom finesse. I don't think this "framed" by a gazillion Canton townspeople was their first choice of strategy but she's paying them, it is her right for them to provide the services her way, so she's in charge.

Yanetti said this past week, "You'd think this was my first time to try a case" or words to that effect. It sounds endearing as he hung his head while saying it. It got a chuckle from some but this man has decades of courtroom experience. I'd say he's steadily been one of Boston's finest lawyers.

"Attorney Yannetti has been selected to the exclusive Massachusetts and New England “Super Lawyers” list in Boston Magazine every year since 2007."

MOO

 

[k-mac]

The last thread closed before I could respond to this post by @Universecalling


No, not bc the driver of the dark SUV was near his lifeless body screaming "Did I hit him?" "I hit him" "I hit him"

There was no reason to seek a search warrant for 34 FV since the girlfriend told them she hit him.

Jen was told by an officer to wake up her sis and BIL. We see on cop car cam that a figure passes by the vehicles parked in the driveway and it's Jen. When A's walked down their stairs, Lank was standing there at the bottom waiting to question the couple. Individually.

Chloe was in quarantine within a day or 2? Is that nasty rumor or documented proof as fact? I haven't seen nor heard that claim.

The investigation was not without minor mistakes but John's shirt had broken tail light fragments on it.

My response is quite clear. Why search a house when the CS is at edge of the road and the killer is standing next to his lifeless, frozen body screaming: "I hit him!" over and over again?

You can make an assumption that there'd be a resounding yes, but the trial isn't over. There has been heavy propaganda feeding this case to the public. It's torn a community into two sides. If I could say something to the defendant, it'd be something like : "How dare you!"
MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #3

MOO and JMHO

Great points DeDee
OCCAM RAZOR is usually right.

The straight line to KR works very smoothly.

The obstacle course to a conspiracy involving dozens of people.... way too much unnecessary energy and expedition.

 

[Dre]

the prosecution feels like defense and vice versa. If they keep this up, there will be an acquittal. It’s day 14 and I’m still waiting to see the facts that brought this case to trial in the first place. Jmo

 

[k-mac]

the prosecution feels like defense and vice versa. If they keep this up, there will be an acquittal. It’s day 14 and I’m still waiting to see the facts that brought this case to trial in the first place. Jmo

wouldn't be the first slam dunk turned into a diabolical injustice.

money and good legal defence reigns supreme...truth and justice aren't always on the money side of the road.

I am not pessimistic though, just depends how the jury look at the evidence.

 

[DeDee]

DeDee said:
It might not have been to your liking but Karen hasn't done one thing to prove she did not kill this guy, John O'Keefe.
End quote.

We are not changing a cornerstone of our justice system from innocent until proven guilty into prove you didn't do it.

Changes to our legal system for murderers and other serious offenders are not expected by me. Let's be sensible.

I am a volunteer in my state for Criminal Justice Reform.

This is an unusual murder case. Karen Read's defense is that 2 or more SODDI and 24 or more others are helping to cover it up by lying under oath. Sadly, she's putting her mind and body through torturous stress on the daily.

IE, if her car's telematics can show her car was not placed into reverse and backed up 60' that aligns with John's location, then it could have been introduced at the dismissal hearing and possibly walked away a free citizen. Why go through all of this painful and expensive drama if she has anything similar that shows she did not do this to John?

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

It appears you believe that law enforcement did a good job investigating this murder. I don't believe that and propaganda has nothing to do with this being a shoddy investigation. And I would say “how dare Lally et al” try to pass this off as having been competently and thoroughly investigated.IMO

I do believe that the PD has done a shoddy work investigating the murder of their own, Boston cop. I have a further question, if they do such a poor job when it concerns their own, what can we, ordinary citizens, expect?

But does shoddy job justify character assassination and accusations of corruption for the whole Canton PD? Accusing them of murdering their own?

All I see so far is a blue-collar town, over-the-limit drinking... and kids not being educated enough to leave the area. Some moms probably have to ask themselves whether they should cut on drinking, IMHO. But - the town is regular, hard-working and undeserving of such negativity that descended on it.

And I don’t have any affiliation to the police whatsoever. I absolutely do not align with the police and in fact, couldn’t have cared less whether it was a policeman or a layperson unjustly accused. But I don’t see any evidence against BA, H or CA.

This reply is from the last thread by @Charlot123

MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #3



I watched amazed when the Defense chose the very small courtroom but now I understand why they did. It keeps the crowd out due to limited seating. Ms Read kept her eyes glued on Jen at the witness stand, some may call it "staring her down", every chance the camera showed KR during her testimony.

Ms Read chose Yanetti. Then, she selected Jackson. Both are highly successful attorneys with great results. They are doing her bidding her way by using their legal expertise and courtroom finesse. I don't think this "framed" by a gazillion Canton townspeople was their first choice of strategy but she's paying them, it is her right for them to provide the services her way, so she's in charge.

Yanetti said this past week, "You'd think this was my first time to try a case" or words to that effect. It sounds endearing as he hung his head while saying it. It got a chuckle from some but this man has decades of courtroom experience. I'd say he's steadily been one of Boston's finest lawyers.

"Attorney Yannetti has been selected to the exclusive Massachusetts and New England “Super Lawyers” list in Boston Magazine every year since 2007."

MOO

Thinking of it… Jen visited JO and KR. JO wanted Jen McC to befriend KR because both had MS. I suspect Jen, a regular but kind-hearted person, blames herself for inviting JO and KR to BA’s house, or helping KR later. She did it out of natural goodness, KR threw her under the bus. I feel very sad for JenMcC.

 

[Charlot123]

In addition, John had two swollen black eyes and lacerations over the eyebrows. The blow to the head was severe causing substantial bleeding. That bleeding took place where he was beaten as there was little blood detected where he lay in the snow. The FBI witnesses will testify John's wounds were not the result of being hit by a backing-up vehicle.

I wonder if these could be so-called “raccoon eyes”; a sign of intracranial injury

Raccoon eyes - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Charlot123]

http://Prosecutors in the Karen Rea...tail light material in the victim's clothing.

My response is quite clear. Why search a house when the CS is at edge of the road and the killer is standing next to his lifeless, frozen body screaming: "I hit him!" over and over again?
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...on-14-apr-2023-3.712475/page-62#post-18900584

Respectfully snipped for brevity. I think that not entering the house was a mistake, but I think the explanation is quite obvious. They were partying in the house the day before. Including kids, too. Evidence of alcohol or drugs consumed in the house (especially by the minors) is something no parent would want to be associated with. If you are police, it is a double whammy.
This is why I think cameras were off, this is why the cameras on the house across the street were off. This is why Proctor didn’t enter the house. If they admit it, the public’s reaction will probably be, “bad, but happens”. If we continue insisting that they got prepared to kil another cop, sorry, doesn’t sound reasonable.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Do we know why they rehomed Chloe the dog?

 

[nodamselindistress]

Do we know why they rehomed Chloe the dog?

Yes, Chloe was rehomed because she got in a fight with another dog and when a human tried to break up the fight the human was injured. Nicole Albert testimony on 5/10/24.

Karen Read trial: Canton homeowner testified Friday - The Boston …​

WEBMay 10, 2024 · Nicole Albert said there had been a previous incident in 2022 when Chloe was fighting with another dog and its owner was injured. She also said Chloe, who …

 

[nodamselindistress]

This reply is from the last thread by @Charlot123

(snipped)
I watched amazed when the Defense chose the very small courtroom but now I understand why they did. It keeps the crowd out due to limited seating. Ms Read kept her eyes glued on Jen at the witness stand, some may call it "staring her down", every chance the camera showed KR during her testimony.

Funny how perceptions differ. I read in the prior thread from press that was actually in the courtroom that they were avoiding eye contact.

From the prior thread:

@BienickWCVB

During a sidebar, McCabe stares straight ahead. Read stares at the lawyers at the bench. They seem to be avoiding eye contact.

MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #3

Nice group text getting all their ducks in a row....JMO Exactly what it seems. If JOK never came into the house why would anyone need to tell anyone to say he was never in the house?

www.websleuths.com

<mod note - link added. How to quote a post from another thread>

 

[Wishbone]

wouldn't be the first slam dunk turned into a diabolical injustice.

money and good legal defence reigns supreme...truth and justice aren't always on the money side of the road.

I am not pessimistic though, just depends how the jury look at the evidence.

Most importantly a jury would see a shoddy investigation and compromised associates for starters.JMO

 

[shotgun09]

I found a Pre-Trial Hearing from April 12th where D Yanetti describes at length the defense of this case. Including when the defense became aware of the Albert's and the ( secret society therein) cover-up. There was a 'tip' that came in to them very early on. Yanetti discusses each of the three potential parties, Brian Albert Sr, Brian Higgins, and Colin Albert who " May Be Involved" .

Worth watching, if you have the time.

As stated often and frequently in this thread. It is not the job of the Defense to solve the case. RIP Officer John O'Keefe.

Karen Read Pre-Trail hearings April 12 2024 Part 2 of 2

Karen Read Pre-Trail hearings April 12 2024 Part 2 of 2

reflect-cctv-vod.cablecast.tv

 

[Dre]

“Tell them the guy never went in the house” was texted by Matt McCabe to group text. Freaking YIKES.

“the guy”!?! John is his name, and less letters to type. RIP.

The jury is definitely thinking about that this weekend. Moo

 

[sunspun]

I found a Pre-Trial Hearing from April 12th where D Yanetti describes at length the defense of this case. Including when the defense became aware of the Albert's and the ( secret society therein) cover-up. There was a 'tip' that came in to them very early on. Yanetti discusses each of the three potential parties, Brian Albert Sr, Brian Higgins, and Colin Albert who " May Be Involved" .

Worth watching, if you have the time.

As stated often and frequently in this thread. It is not the job of the Defense to solve the case. RIP Officer John O'Keefe.

Karen Read Pre-Trail hearings April 12 2024 Part 2 of 2

Karen Read Pre-Trail hearings April 12 2024 Part 2 of 2

reflect-cctv-vod.cablecast.tv

As you said, "Worth watching, if you have the time." I agree! Thx for posting.

 

[ch_13]

I do believe that the PD has done a shoddy work investigating the murder of their own, Boston cop. I have a further question, if they do such a poor job when it concerns their own, what can we, ordinary citizens, expect?

But does shoddy job justify character assassination and accusations of corruption for the whole Canton PD? Accusing them of murdering their own?

rsbm.

As far as I can tell the defense's third-party theory is not that the Canton cops were involved in killing John O'Keefe. (Some of Read's most zealous supporters have claimed the cops were in on it, but that's not the same as an argument the defense makes in court.)

Rather, the defense believes that the shoddy investigation by both Canton PD and MSP (not recording interviews, not going into the house, interviewing witnesses in groups, not securing the crime scene, evidence not being properly logged, etc.) was partly because the cops had longstanding ties to the Alberts and therefore were deferential to them in ways they wouldn't be to a civilian.

And I think they will also argue that Proctor framed Karen by planting taillight pieces at the crime scene. However, he didn't do that to cover for the Alberts, but rather because he thought she did it and wanted an open-and-shut case and an easy conviction.

Respectfully snipped for brevity. I think that not entering the house was a mistake, but I think the explanation is quite obvious. They were partying in the house the day before. Including kids, too. Evidence of alcohol or drugs consumed in the house (especially by the minors) is something no parent would want to be associated with. If you are police, it is a double whammy.

Sure, that's a reason for the Alberts to not allow police into their home, but what's the reason that the cops never even asked to search? That one Canton detective, Ofc. Saraf, even tried to claim asking to enter a residence was against department policy in a death investigation. I find it hard to believe any such policy existed and was being followed since they had never even done a death investigation before and were screwing up all the big things. One cop tried to claim he didn't even know how to use evidence tape!