MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #4

[MerlinFalcon]

Yes, Chloe was rehomed because she got in a fight with another dog and when a human tried to break up the fight the human was injured. Nicole Albert testimony on 5/10/24.

Karen Read trial: Canton homeowner testified Friday - The Boston …​

WEBMay 10, 2024 · Nicole Albert said there had been a previous incident in 2022 when Chloe was fighting with another dog and its owner was injured. She also said Chloe, who …

Thanks for this. I know people re-home dogs for different reasons but this is a strange one. Things like this happen when a person gets involved in a dog fight. Something stinks.

 

[Charlot123]

rsbm.

As far as I can tell the defense's third-party theory is not that the Canton cops were involved in killing John O'Keefe. (Some of Read's most zealous supporters have claimed the cops were in on it, but that's not the same as an argument the defense makes in court.)

Rather, the defense believes that the shoddy investigation by both Canton PD and MSP (not recording interviews, not going into the house, interviewing witnesses in groups, not securing the crime scene, evidence not being properly logged, etc.) was partly because the cops had longstanding ties to the Alberts and therefore were deferential to them in ways they wouldn't be to a civilian.

And I think they will also argue that Proctor framed Karen by planting taillight pieces at the crime scene. However, he didn't do that to cover for the Alberts, but rather because he thought she did it and wanted an open-and-shut case and an easy conviction.

RSBM.

However, in previous threads it was obviously discussed that JO was killed in BA’s basement. During the trial, the doors to the basement were noticed. We speculated, whether a body could get through bulkhead doors, or not? Who stated this? If some of KR supporters stooped so low as to harass witnesses, do the said witnesses have the right to seek recompenses, or do they now live with the tarnished reputation? Mostly - KR’s supporters could not have provided investigation materials to Kearney? Kearney lived in Worcester and taught boys in Peabody, wasn’t it a little bit far from Canton? He is going to take the fall, but is it fair that he is the only one?
Who provided AK with investigative materials?
Start with this…

It is like this - if he found it on his own, then he is an amazing blogger.

If someone else, the lawyers, for example, then it is violating the integrity of the investigation.

 

[waterslyd]

At this point, I need an a medical explanation for John's wounds, which I can not see how a car caused those scratches. I want to see what the state of his clothing was in relation to his wounds.

Besides all that, I think The DA overreached with a murder charge. If they truly believe she did it, it should have been involuntary manslaughter.
I don't know what happened to John. Usually I am not AT ALL partial to conspiracy theories. However, local cops have a degree of power over things that I don't trust them to always have integrity. They can do things that regular people would get arrested for. For example the permissive underage drinking and adults drinking and driving in this case. (And look at what happened in Stoughton, the next town over from Canton). Does all that mean they covered up a murder? Maybe, maybe not. But it seems that they COULD.
AND the FBI-confirmed time of search "Hos long to die in snow" @2:45 am is alone strong enough evidence for REASONABLE DOUBT.
At this point she should be acquitted.

For people who don't believe these types of horrible things happen here is the Stoughton cops link:

New allegations reported in Sandra Birchmore case | Canton Citizen

www.thecantoncitizen.com

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

rsbm.

As far as I can tell the defense's third-party theory is not that the Canton cops were involved in killing John O'Keefe. (Some of Read's most zealous supporters have claimed the cops were in on it, but that's not the same as an argument the defense makes in court.)

Rather, the defense believes that the shoddy investigation by both Canton PD and MSP (not recording interviews, not going into the house, interviewing witnesses in groups, not securing the crime scene, evidence not being properly logged, etc.) was partly because the cops had longstanding ties to the Alberts and therefore were deferential to them in ways they wouldn't be to a civilian.

And I think they will also argue that Proctor framed Karen by planting taillight pieces at the crime scene. However, he didn't do that to cover for the Alberts, but rather because he thought she did it and wanted an open-and-shut case and an easy conviction.




Sure, that's a reason for the Alberts to not allow police into their home, but what's the reason that the cops never even asked to search? That one Canton detective, Ofc. Saraf, even tried to claim asking to enter a residence was against department policy in a death investigation. I find it hard to believe any such policy existed and was being followed since they had never even done a death investigation before and were screwing up all the big things. One cop tried to claim he didn't even know how to use evidence tape!

Just got to also say…… then why perhaps something like this would not have occurred: ‘oh dear, someone is missing, perhaps fallen somewhere? Near our front yard is it? It is so cold and snowing outside now, so please come in out of the cold officers, have a cup or warm cider or coffee, and let’s see any questions you might have?’

I know….. dreaming, but one can wish eh? Everything that I see thus far refers only to a potentially incomplete or incompetent investigation, unanswered questions, and also possibly either deference or pure avoidance because the residence was owned by a then MA police officer? (How soon after did he retire, or was he removed for other reasons? Was a pension or retirement granted?)

And add to that a prosecution that IMO seems questionable and pursued for reasons other than seeking the truth or justice. And a case that if alleged as by the prosecution, then IMO an over-charged case brought. Quite a spectacle on display IMO. MOO

 

[DeDee]

RSBM.

However, in previous threads it was obviously discussed that JO was killed in BA’s basement. During the trial, the doors to the basement were noticed. We speculated, whether a body could get through bulkhead doors, or not? Who stated this? If some of KR supporters stooped so low as to harass witnesses, do the said witnesses have the right to seek recompenses, or do they now live with the tarnished reputation? Mostly - KR’s supporters could not have provided investigation materials to Kearney? Kearney lived in Worcester and taught boys in Peabody, wasn’t it a little bit far from Canton? He is going to take the fall, but is it fair that he is the only one?
Who provided AK with investigative materials?
Start with this…

It is like this - if he found it on his own, then he is an amazing blogger.

If someone else, the lawyers, for example, then it is violating the integrity of the investigation.

It was Karen and Turtleboy using the Signal app.

"... Read and Kearney built a relationship through direct conversations, text messages, and emails last year...

< > Kearney allegedly sent a message through an intermediary, Natalie Wiweke Bershneider.

“Hey need to talk to you ASAP,” Kearney said. “It’s really important for me to know how we know [the teenager] was in that” [house] ... I’m starting to lose confidence [the teenager] was in that house and I’m freaking out.”

Read calmed Kearney by summarizing testimony from prosecution witnesses who testified before a Norfolk County grand jury, information that is rarely disclosed publicly by law enforcement. She followed that up with a direct conversation through the Signal app...

The Boston Globe via MSN with more interesting data at the link

 

[ch_13]

Who provided AK with investigative materials?
Start with this…

It is like this - if he found it on his own, then he is an amazing blogger.

If someone else, the lawyers, for example, then it is violating the integrity of the investigation.

Snipping this out.

I don't think there's any question that Karen Read or someone on her defense team has been feeding Kearney material for his blog.

But protecting the "integrity of their investigation" is not Read's responsibility. Unless there is a gag order in place, she and her lawyers are free to publicize any evidence or discuss the case in any way, shape or form that they wish. Now, the federal grand jury proceedings have been under a protective order, and as far as I know information from there has never become public except during the trial proceedings. For example, Michael Proctor searching for nudes wasn't known until opening statements.

To be clear, I'm in no way way excusing any of Turtleboy's harassment. But publishing details about a crime under investigation isn't harassment, that's just reporting. Harassment is all the other stuff he does, like showing up to Jen McCabe's daughter's high school game or leading protests in front of peoples' houses.

And one other note: The DA's office and/or the Alberts have also been selectively making information public to bolster their view of the case. It's not just Read's defense team that's doing it.

 

[shotgun09]

I am looking forward to Tuesday's cross with Jen McCabe. Assuredly there will be fireworks and spice, along with some premature "Sustained" calls before Lally ever figures out to object. The defense has JMC's texts, and phone records. They have prepared for this. A Jackson is no slouch.

What I expect? Substantial Reasonable Doubt, given the trials history so far. JMC was complicit in the cover-up. See group text. JMC was a manipulator. See 2:26 am Google search, 'Hos long......?"

Cannot wait for the experts testimony, by the way.
Let the truth be told.


MOO

 

[Wishbone]

I am looking forward to Tuesday's cross with Jen McCabe. Assuredly there will be fireworks and spice, along with some premature "Sustained" calls before Lally ever figures out to object. The defense has JMC's texts, and phone records. They have prepared for this. A Jackson is no slouch.

What I expect? Substantial Reasonable Doubt, given the trials history so far. JMC was complicit in the cover-up. See group text. JMC was a manipulator. See 2:26 am Google search, 'Hos long......?"

Cannot wait for the experts testimony, by the way.
Let the truth be told.


MOO

Will see what topics the black widow allows the defense to question.

 

[shotgun09]

Will see what topics the black widow allows the defense to question.

Hopefully by now, the jury is well attuned to Judge Bev's sustaining. And usually, it's when the defense's questions are RIGHT ON POINT to their case. The jury probably wants those questions asked, and answered. And as I said, you cannot un-ring a bell.

I want to hear them ask Jen MC over and over, " Where was Chloe?" Because she squirmed a little during direct when Lally asked. She answered with the standard " I don't remember", but I sensed a lot of inner and outward conflict with that topic. I am hoping the defense team caught that as well, and will move accordingly.

MOO

 

[shotgun09]

Also IMO, Lally and the CW feel that they successfully put to bed the 'Chloe was involved' theory by their out of order Veterinary DNA Expert. But that testimony fell completely flat, when it was stated that the swabs sent to the lab were collected from an unknown area of JOK's shirt, and NOT from the wounds themselves. Also, the defense ' suggested' without saying a word, that the swabs and collection might have been tainted somehow. ( Imagine that ?? )
Think Solo Cups and Stop&Shop bags....

 

[waldojabba]

At this point, I need an a medical explanation for John's wounds, which I can not see how a car caused those scratches. I want to see what the state of his clothing was in relation to his wounds.

Besides all that, I think The DA overreached with a murder charge. If they truly believe she did it, it should have been involuntary manslaughter.
I don't know what happened to John. Usually I am not AT ALL partial to conspiracy theories. However, local cops have a degree of power over things that I don't trust them to always have integrity. They can do things that regular people would get arrested for. For example the permissive underage drinking and adults drinking and driving in this case. (And look at what happened in Stoughton, the next town over from Canton). Does all that mean they covered up a murder? Maybe, maybe not. But it seems that they COULD.
AND the FBI-confirmed time of search "Hos long to die in snow" @2:45 am is alone strong enough evidence for REASONABLE DOUBT.
At this point she should be acquitted.

For people who don't believe these types of horrible things happen here is the Stoughton cops link:

New allegations reported in Sandra Birchmore case | Canton Citizen

www.thecantoncitizen.com

Thanks for bringing up the Stoughton fiasco again. I do hope people read up on it.
I know I mentioned it earlier but this may be a case that if you are not local, it’s hard to understand the environment or you may think what may be going on is far fetched. If you are LE, have family, neighbor or friends that are LE, and you live in metro Boston - you know what can happen.
I don’t know what happened here. None of us do.
But to me it appears they were too quick to arrest and charge KR and did a piss poor investigation ( the investigation alone should set her free) and now they are caught in a bad situation.
Because, yikes, was this just business as usual? Maybe. Are other cases compromised? Most people in KR’s shoes would have taken a plea.
She is referred to as the c word and her phone is looked thru for nudes. That tells you what kind of power the “real” people in power thought she had - as in nada.
They never expected for her to rise to the occasion and defend herself.
So now the witness for the P/ and the actual P are all operating with nothing in a very flawed case They are struggling bc of their own incompetence or worse.
If you don’t see reasonable doubt at this point then imo you don’t understand the definition of reasonable doubt. Just imo.
There were so many party goers peering out “behind the curtains” watching all the activity in front of the house, like Gladys Kravetz all night , it would not have been missed.
A black SUV backing up Sixty feet -@ 24 mph. How far is 60 ft ?
So if you consider each story of a house to be 10 ft. - put one triple decker on top of another - And from the ground to the top is 60 ft ish. Six story’s.
That a really short distance to get going IN REVERSE that fast. Then you need to brake - and that doesn’t stop you on a dime. And the roads are wet. KR is trashed supposedly but can drive with precision? Make it make sense.
And not one of those Gladys Kravetz curious types see anything?
I am waiting for the reenactment.
There are so many thing that don’t add up they make my brain hurt.
Just my opinion

 

[Universecalling]

Will see what topics the black widow allows the defense to question.

Who? Lord, I’m sorry, Lady Bev Vader?

 

[shotgun09]

Who? Lord, I’m sorry, Lady Bev Vader?

Yeah....The mic breathing thing is pretty obnoxious.
Hopefully someone can give her some subtle suggestions.

 

[themonk]

At this point, I need an a medical explanation for John's wounds, which I can not see how a car caused those scratches. I want to see what the state of his clothing was in relation to his wounds.

Besides all that, I think The DA overreached with a murder charge. If they truly believe she did it, it should have been involuntary manslaughter.
I don't know what happened to John. Usually I am not AT ALL partial to conspiracy theories. However, local cops have a degree of power over things that I don't trust them to always have integrity. They can do things that regular people would get arrested for. For example the permissive underage drinking and adults drinking and driving in this case. (And look at what happened in Stoughton, the next town over from Canton). Does all that mean they covered up a murder? Maybe, maybe not. But it seems that they COULD.
AND the FBI-confirmed time of search "Hos long to die in snow" @2:45 am is alone strong enough evidence for REASONABLE DOUBT.
At this point she should be acquitted.

For people who don't believe these types of horrible things happen here is the Stoughton cops link:

New allegations reported in Sandra Birchmore case | Canton Citizen

www.thecantoncitizen.com

That Stoughton case is disturbing in the extreme.

May there be justice.

 

[k-mac]

<modsnip - quoted post was personalizing>
KR made her own bed when she confessed to THREE PEOPLE in the heat of the moment before all that grog wore off and she became clearer thinking.....

no less one of them.... a police officer. smh.

Not to mention reinserting herself into the scene of the crime.....WITH BACK UP.

Not to mention staging an on camera accident over the precise location on the vehicle she is a accused of hitting John with hours earlier.

Not to mention the 'missing' ring camera footage. vanished poof!

eda

 

[HanniBJeter]

Right!
KR made her own bed when she confessed to THREE PEOPLE in the heat of the moment before all that grog wore off and she became clearer thinking.....

no less one of them.... a police officer. smh.

Not to mention reinserting herself into the scene of the crime.....WITH BACK UP.

Not to mention staging an on camera accident over the precise location on the vehicle she is a accused of hitting John with hours earlier.

Not to mention the 'missing' ring camera footage. vanished poof!

eda

She staged an on camera accident? Can you provide a link to this evidence? Thanks!

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

The last thread closed before I could respond to this post by @Universecalling


No, not bc the driver of the dark SUV was near his lifeless body screaming "Did I hit him?" "I hit him" "I hit him"

There was no reason to seek a search warrant for 34 FV since the girlfriend told them she hit him.

One EMT heard her yell that. She didn't "tell LE she hit him". It should have had no bearing on their interest in searching a property.

JMO

 

[jepop]

Also IMO, Lally and the CW feel that they successfully put to bed the 'Chloe was involved' theory by their out of order Veterinary DNA Expert. But that testimony fell completely flat, when it was stated that the swabs sent to the lab were collected from an unknown area of JOK's shirt, and NOT from the wounds themselves. Also, the defense ' suggested' without saying a word, that the swabs and collection might have been tainted somehow. ( Imagine that ?? )
Think Solo Cups and Stop&Shop bags....

RBBM above, I agree. That baby didn't go bye byes. Is definately still awake and calling (yelling!) out to be heard Imo.

 

[HanniBJeter]

Why DIDN’T Jennifer McCabe run to BA’s house and wake them up immediately? Why did she wait until LE told her to go get them? That’s so weird.

 

[Name_Withheld]

At this point, I need an a medical explanation for John's wounds, which I can not see how a car caused those scratches. I want to see what the state of his clothing was in relation to his wounds.

I suspect that the testimony mentioning the white Jeep with the snow plow attachment will play a part in this. I'm leaning toward this being an unintentional and unfortunate accident however I'll continue to let the case play out with evidence and testimony.

I'm also moving toward this not being a conspiracy to cover up a murder but a few of the actors in this case being involved in a possible coverup of other activities happing in the home of a former police officer with current officers of different agencies present in the house on the night of the event. Accepted underage drinking, drinking and driving, and who knows what else.

The investigation was sloppy at best and completely incompetent at worst.

I'm going to remain neutral on this but again want to point out that the Defense does NOT need to prove Karen Read's innocence...the Prosecution needs to prove her guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

My 2 cents...