MA MA - Rapheal Teken, 37, Eric Weissman, 31, & Brandon Mess, 25, Waltham, 12 Sept 2011

That is correct, and they've been used recreationally in the U.S. since long before shisha and hookah cafes became fashionable.

Guess there is just different cultures even within the stoner community. As I've seen weed smoked out of many a device, including very sophisticated bongs, and electronic vaporizers....and have never once seen or heard of anyone I know smoking weed in a hookah.
 
On AC 360 they just mentioned authorities are looking at TT and if he was possibly dealing drugs. They said it was one of the "angles" authorities were investigating regarding his financial situation and funding his trip to Russia, bombs and what not. See what comes of this information.
 
Guess there is just different cultures even within the stoner community. As I've seen weed smoked out of many a device, including very sophisticated bongs, and electronic vaporizers....and have never once seen or heard of anyone I know smoking weed in a hookah.
I used to smoke out of a five gallon aqualung before I changed my ways when I was young. Lol
 
Guess there is just different cultures even within the stoner community. As I've seen weed smoked out of many a device, including very sophisticated bongs, and electronic vaporizers....and have never once seen or heard of anyone I know smoking weed in a hookah.
Noooo...more likely the difference lies among generations. IMO

Enough said. This is veering way off topic.
 
On AC 360 they just mentioned authorities are looking at TT and if he was possibly dealing drugs. They said it was one of the "angles" authorities were investigating regarding his financial situation and funding his trip to Russia, bombs and what not. See what comes of this information.
If true, it could put a new spin on the Waltham murders.
 
Could TT have had a motive in that he had turned so radically religious he now saw the victim/s as immoral because of their drug use and dealing? One poster suggested BM was dealing to little bro; hence, big bro's anger post his conversion. Would explain the "symbolic" pot scattering.

And/or could this have been a kind of bonding, commando-style, practice or test mission he carried out with younger bro? It seems as though, and given BM's Martial Arts skill and that there were three, getting control of all the victims could take at least two. Then again, a gun does wonders in the control department.

But, scene's so bloody, body-dragging etc., one would think there would have been trace evidence and that LE would have tested BM's circle.

And why leave the money--but then why would any one have? Perhaps some one who is sending a message that the money, like the victims, is "dirty." Day after WTC anniversary?

Victim's friends surprised TT did not go to memorial or funeral. And how do we know how much money was actually in the house. Maybe the perp and accomplices helped themselves to at least half.
 
Could TT have had a motive in that he had turned so radically religious he now saw the victim/s as immoral because of their drug use and dealing? One poster suggested BM was dealing to little bro; hence, big bro's anger post his conversion. Would explain the "symbolic" pot scattering.

And/or could this have been a kind of bonding, commando-style, practice or test mission he carried out with younger bro? It seems as though, and given BM's Martial Arts skill and that there were three, getting control of all the victims could take at least two. Then again, a gun does wonders in the control department.

But, scene's so bloody, body-dragging etc., one would think there would have been trace evidence and that LE would have tested BM's circle.

And why leave the money--but then why would any one have? Perhaps some one who is sending a message that the money, like the victims, is "dirty." Day after WTC anniversary?

Victim's friends surprised TT did not go to memorial or funeral. And how do we know how much money was actually in the house. Maybe the perp and accomplices helped themselves to at least half.

The only thing is, it is pretty widely known that that terrorist organization in the Middle East fund themselves almost exclusively off the heroin trade. If TT was highly influenced by the wars in Afganhastan and Iraq...I doubt he would have seen pot money as something so dirty, when those who was in admiration of where financing themselves in a similar fashion but on a grander scale.
 
This case seems to be quieting down, but I've reading about it and have so many questions!

(Warning: graphic details ahead )
Investigators of the crime reported at the time that the heads of the three victims were pulled back and their throats slit ear to ear with great force. Marijuana was spread over the bodies in a "symbolic gesture," and several thousand dollars in cash was found at the scene. (CNN)
"They had their throat slashed, their heads nearly decapitated. Their mutilated bodies were left covered with marijuana."
... A Waltham investigator who called the murders "the worst bloodbath I have ever seen in a long law enforcement career"... "There was no forced entry, it was clear that the victims had let the killer in. And their throats were slashed right out of an al Qaeda training video. (ABC)
Okay, I'm sorry to quote these details, they are horrifying. But:

* CNN article (BBM) Did investigators report this at the time? The recent descriptions seem a lot more violent and graphic than the early reports of the victims 'stab wounds' or 'injuries to the neck'!

It looks like the day of the murder LE said (unofficially) the men were stabbed to death. A reporter, Michele McFee, added that she was told by an unnamed investigator that they may have been stabbed with a knife or an ice pick. When the COD from the autopsy was revealed to be "sharp force injuries to the neck", LE was asked whether this meant the victims throats were slit, but according to this report, declined to comment or confirm anything about the COD, the time of death, or the motive. (Except, of these three things, they did comment on motive. Before the men were even identified, they said it was a targeted, drug related crime). link

* ABC article: The men were 'nearly decapitated' and the murder was 'right out of an Al Qaeda training video'? This a pretty big new detail, isn't it? They may have been rumors about this in 2011 (remember that Daniel Pearl comment?) but I didn't even see it alluded to anywhere else.

Note who wrote the article: Michele McFee, the same person who said LE told her about the 'ice pick' detail in 2011. So, did LE tell her this then too, but it was kept quiet -- or, is this just another case of media sensationalism? I hope no one would make up a quote like that, but I am a little skeptical of the media, given the reporting we've seen in last few weeks.

If it's true, wouldn't that suggest that investigators suspected that this was about more than a marijuana deal? And wouldn't this be a clue as to potential suspects, since they believed the assailant(s) were known to the victims? Hmm, who should be questioned about a murder that looks like its right out of an Al Qaeda training video? Is it the jealous ex-girlfriend who threw things at B.M.? The teenage pot dealer who lives next door? Or the former best friend who was already on the FBI's radar for suspected links to Islamic extremist terrorist groups in Chechnya (incidentally, the very people who first brought beheadings to the world's attention by videotaping the violent murders of hostages). TT is the only one of these 3 that was not mentioned in the media, though people now say he acted suspiciously too. The DA seems to be suggesting that this is a "new lead". Was TT a suspect in 2011? I wish someone would ask them directly.

Finally, If they really did believe this was just about drugs, what's with the weirdness over the date? Every single article lists the date the bodies were found, Sept. 12. There are obituaries, memorials and at least one gravestone that mark the date of death as Sept. 11, but even now, no one is willing to say this on the record.

All of this makes me wonder: What if, in 2011, this crime had been reported as Three men nearly beheaded on September 11th, and the profiles of the victims had talked more about their lives (including the fact that two of them were Jewish) and less about their criminal records? Is any of this relevant? Who knows. But instead, it was 3 drug dealers, stabbed in the neck, (found on) Sept. 12th. And not surprisingly, it looks like it faded from the news within a week and became a cold case.

TL;DR.? I have no idea how this got to be so long, I only had one small point when I started writing :) -- sorry!!
 
According to what I heard on Anderson Cooper, TT was never even questioned by the police in this case. So clearly he was not a suspect, he was not even on their radar.
It sounds to that these murders were above the heads of the investigators looking into it.
The date of death is very likely Sept 11 because victim stopped communicating via his cell phone during the evening hours of Sept 11.
 
This case seems to be quieting down, but I've reading about it and have so many questions!

(Warning: graphic details ahead )


Okay, I'm sorry to quote these details, they are horrifying. But:

* CNN article (BBM) Did investigators report this at the time? The recent descriptions seem a lot more violent and graphic than the early reports of the victims 'stab wounds' or 'injuries to the neck'!

It looks like the day of the murder LE said (unofficially) the men were stabbed to death. A reporter, Michele McFee, added that she was told by an unnamed investigator that they may have been stabbed with a knife or an ice pick. When the COD from the autopsy was revealed to be "sharp force injuries to the neck", LE was asked whether this meant the victims throats were slit, but according to this report, declined to comment or confirm anything about the COD, the time of death, or the motive. (Except, of these three things, they did comment on motive. Before the men were even identified, they said it was a targeted, drug related crime). link

* ABC article: The men were 'nearly decapitated' and the murder was 'right out of an Al Qaeda training video'? This a pretty big new detail, isn't it? They may have been rumors about this in 2011 (remember that Daniel Pearl comment?) but I didn't even see it alluded to anywhere else.

Note who wrote the article: Michele McFee, the same person who said LE told her about the 'ice pick' detail in 2011. So, did LE tell her this then too, but it was kept quiet -- or, is this just another case of media sensationalism? I hope no one would make up a quote like that, but I am a little skeptical of the media, given the reporting we've seen in last few weeks.

If it's true, wouldn't that suggest that investigators suspected that this was about more than a marijuana deal? And wouldn't this be a clue as to potential suspects, since they believed the assailant(s) were known to the victims? Hmm, who should be questioned about a murder that looks like its right out of an Al Qaeda training video? Is it the jealous ex-girlfriend who threw things at B.M.? The teenage pot dealer who lives next door? Or the former best friend who was already on the FBI's radar for suspected links to Islamic extremist terrorist groups in Chechnya (incidentally, the very people who first brought beheadings to the world's attention by videotaping the violent murders of hostages). TT is the only one of these 3 that was not mentioned in the media, though people now say he acted suspiciously too. The DA seems to be suggesting that this is a "new lead". Was TT a suspect in 2011? I wish someone would ask them directly.

Finally, If they really did believe this was just about drugs, what's with the weirdness over the date? Every single article lists the date the bodies were found, Sept. 12. There are obituaries, memorials and at least one gravestone that mark the date of death as Sept. 11, but even now, no one is willing to say this on the record.

All of this makes me wonder: What if, in 2011, this crime had been reported as Three men nearly beheaded on September 11th, and the profiles of the victims had talked more about their lives (including the fact that two of them were Jewish) and less about their criminal records? Is any of this relevant? Who knows. But instead, it was 3 drug dealers, stabbed in the neck, (found on) Sept. 12th. And not surprisingly, it looks like it faded from the news within a week and became a cold case.

TL;DR.? I have no idea how this got to be so long, I only had one small point when I started writing :) -- sorry!!
Some of your questions came up earlier.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MA MA - Waltham Triple Murder, 12 Sept 2011

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MA MA - Waltham Triple Murder, 12 Sept 2011

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MA MA - Waltham Triple Murder, 12 Sept 2011

It was noted that the description has changed to sound even more gruesome than it did originally. FWIW, my gut tells me this is the media sensationalizing the details with an eagerness to pin the crimes on the bomber.

As for the date discrepancy, the official time and date on the death certificates would reflect when the bodies were found. That's normal. But as the relative said, the families compared notes about the cell phone usage, so they can be pretty certain it was the night of the 11th. LE and the media, on the other hand, will state the official date. I don't see anything irregular about that, personally, and I don't think it would have made a difference if the date of record was September 11th.

I believe LE was just plain stumped. They knew the killings were personal, and the killer was known to at least one of the victims. And they knew the killer(s) was strong. What else could they know, I wonder? There were three non-familial victims, and no way to tell (I'm guessing) which one was the target, or if they all were. The crime didn't quite add up as drug-related or a robbery, because money and drugs were left behind. I'm going to assume LE ruled out jealous lovers, husbands, stalkers, and pronounced enemies. That doesn't leave much to work with. TT might've raised an eyebrow or two IF he was interviewed, but I'd bet there were other associates who did, as well.

What I keep going back to is the neighbor's statement that five guys lived there. If we asked the neighbor today if one of the five was TT, what would be the answer?
 
Just saw an update on CNN. This may be old news. Sorry I don't have time to read upthread at the moment.

They are reporting the murders as having occurred on Sept 11.
A Waltham police representative (didn't catch his name or title) was interviewed.
Victims' necks were cut "ear to ear".
LE believes there were 2 killers and believes they were known to the victims
No signs of a break-in.
Victims were all killed in separate rooms. (Which could explain how they were overpowered. JMO)
 
As for the date discrepancy, the official time and date on the death certificates would reflect when the bodies were found. That's normal. But as the relative said, the families compared notes about the cell phone usage, so they can be pretty certain it was the night of the 11th. LE and the media, on the other hand, will state the official date. I don't see anything irregular about that, personally, and I don't think it would have made a difference if the date of record was September 11th.

Thanks Bessie, especially for this info. I just assumed that the ME would determine the time of death and that's what would be recorded on the death certificate. If it's standard to record the date 'found', it all makes sense.

It was noted that the description has changed to sound even more gruesome than it did originally. FWIW, my gut tells me this is the media sensationalizing the details with an eagerness to pin the crimes on the bomber.

I'm starting to think the same thing. I'm having serious posters remorse (again!) for quoting those details. I'm glad the recent media attention might lead to a fresh look at this case, but I hate thinking of the possibility of family or friends of the victims coming across these articles (or posts) and reading these terrible descriptions :(
 
Family and friends likely already know how victims were killd. I doubt it's new to them.
The investigation seemed particularly inept.
TT was not even interviewed back then, apparently.
Why is that?
 
Family and friends likely already know how victims were killd. I doubt it's new to them.
The investigation seemed particularly inept.
TT was not even interviewed back then, apparently.
Why is that?

(BBM) Oh, I know. It just seems like certain details are being sensationalized and if they are, I hate to reproduce them, out of principle. I was interested because I wanted to know if LE (in 2011) thought the murder could be have something to do with 9/11 or TT. But I'm not sure the gruesome details need to be reported like this.

Here's the CNN video -- It basically incorporates the info from those two articles posted above, almost word for word, edited together with some old news clips (Like the statement from LE) and a pointless interview with two guys at a restaurant who knew TT and DT.

Boston Suspect Linked to 2011 Murder?
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/27/boston-suspect-linked-to-2011-murder/?iref=allsearch

I'm not sure what to make of the investigation. You're right, it doesn't seem like they got very far, and I'm a little suspicious of fact that within hours, they were indicating to the public that they knew exactly what happened. It also seems like the public and the media accepted right away that this had something to do with drug dealers and didn't push for more answers.
 
Oh, thete was a definite effort to calm the residents fears by reassuring them the crime wasn't random. Apparently they were right.
 
"The last time anyone is known to have heard from the three men was at 8:54 p.m. on Sept. 11, when someone called Gerry's on Weissman's cell phone and ordered meatballs, a chicken cutlet and a side order of sausage. When a delivery woman arrived twenty minutes later there was no answer and no one picked up when they tried to call Weissman's cell phone."

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/bosto...er-case/story?id=19063282&page=2#.UX5RNUpWK4o
 
"The last time anyone is known to have heard from the three men was at 8:54 p.m. on Sept. 11, when someone called Gerry's on Weissman's cell phone and ordered meatballs, a chicken cutlet and a side order of sausage. When a delivery woman arrived twenty minutes later there was no answer and no one picked up when they tried to call Weissman's cell phone."

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/bosto...er-case/story?id=19063282&page=2#.UX5RNUpWK4o

Wow, i wonder if anyone was in the apartment when the delivery order arrived. Early reports, a few pages back, suggested that the bodies were dragged to the upstairs apartment. I had questioned if it appeared as if they were murdered elsewhere and then dragged up to the apartment.

The downstairs neighbor said she didn't hear anything violent.

When the delivery driver arrived, I wonder if the driver heard anyone, any TV, any music, or if she saw the lights on, anything?

One of the friends said that he was texting one of the guys about the football game, until 8:11 PM, when the replies abruptly ended.

Wonder if they were already dead by the time the food order was made. Could it be that in a 43 minute window, 8:11to 8:54 PM that someone killed all three of them and then placed an order so that someone would find them? Wanting the crime to be discovered on 9/11?
 
We know that TT was a pizza delivery guy, but it's not specified who he worked for:


2003-2004; 2008-2010

Tsarnaev is registered to fight with USA Boxing, the organization that oversees amateur boxing in the United States, a spokeswoman says. Tsarnaev delivered pizza and held other jobs while boxing, his aunt said.

from:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/21/us/tamerlan-tsarnaev-timeline
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
89
Guests online
3,447
Total visitors
3,536

Forum statistics

Threads
592,286
Messages
17,966,699
Members
228,735
Latest member
dil2288
Back
Top