Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 10

Discussion in 'Madeleine McCann' started by CW, Aug 14, 2007.

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  1. CW

    CW Former Member

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  3. CaliKid

    CaliKid Former Member

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    http://lawfuel.com/show-release.asp?ID=14231

    "British sniffer dogs found dozens of forensic clues - including specks of blood, fibres and hairs - inside the apartment which were missed by Portuguese police."

    Another criticism of the PJ. I don't think this evidence was missed by them. I think they simply wanted it analysed by their British counterparts so that the McCanns and their supporters couldn't claim it was a Portuguese smear tactic.
     
  4. CaliKid

    CaliKid Former Member

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  5. Trino

    Trino Active Member

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    I am writing from France and thought everyone might want a perspective from here. Madeline's picture was posted in Dinan. BBC showed the parents attending church. They were like celebrities. Everyone lined up to see them enter and exit. The Portuguese police said the parents are not suspects.
     
  6. CaliKid

    CaliKid Former Member

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    The parents' behavior and the media circus surrounding them would almost be funny if this mess wasn't over a missing, presumed dead, child. Someone said you couldn't make this stuff up, and I agree. I can't get my head around how Madeleine has become such an industry. Does GM have so big an ego that he feels he's untouchable? Or did the McCanns take a terrible tragedy and tweak it to manipulate the masses and make money off them? And their daughter!
     
  7. fox1950

    fox1950 New Member

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    When a child is missing, I think most parents reaction, without thinking, would be to make a lot of noise rather than being quiet as not to wake up the other children. To me, this would be a normal reflex to starting yelling the child's name and running around looking for the child. All else would be forgotten-especially the waking of the other children.

    While I have not determined for myself what happened to little Maddie, I can say that some of the statements made sound very odd to me. Reminds me for the Ramsey case where Burke was supposely left alseep while the parents looked around and called 911. My first thought would be to wake up the other children, get them to safety, and if they were old enough (which the McCann's children were probably not) to start questioning the other children to see what they knew.

    Little Maddie is/was a beautiful child. I hope she is alive.

    One thing that comes to my mind was the little bear was put out of reach of Maddie by someone. Three year olds are not easy to contend with sometimes no matter if they are well adjusted children or not. I sometimes wonder if the bear was put on the shelve as a punishment to little Maddie by her parents and in an attempt to retrieve her bear she may have feel and hurt/killed herself.

    Althought, I do have made a determination in the Ramsey case as to who did this horrible crime I am still at odds has to what happened to little Maddie.
     
  8. colomom

    colomom Inactive

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    copied from: http://crimeblog.us/?p=471

    Chief Inspector Olegário of PJ to the portuguese TV, SIC:
    (Q - Question) (A - answear)
    .
    ____________________
    Q: Why you say Madeleine is dead?
    -
    A: I say it is possible that Madeleine is died. But all of options still open.
    -
    Q: Why?
    -
    A: Because there are not sufficient evidences that Madeleine stills alive. That is why we did start investigate the option of her dead.
    -
    Q: Is normal only now detect the blod in the appartment?
    -
    A: Our forencics made a very good job. Is is the case where more evidences were collected. But we all were thinking in abduction like our first option. The dead of Madeleine was the last option, very remote.
    When the evidences of finding Madeleine alive start decreasing, we start looking for the others options.
    We were informed by British police of the existence of 2 snifer dogs that could detect evidences of dead people and mark dead corpses. We ask for them collaboration.
    -
    Q: But is normal only now detect blood. And the quimic products used before?
    -
    A: We were not investigate the dead of Madeleine but the abduction of her.
    Is much more easy for this snifer dogs to detect this evidence of blood because was impossible to see by a human eye, smell and we were not investigating the dead but the missing of Madeleine.
    -
    Q: Her parents are suspect?
    -
    A: I said before. At this point of investigation, the parents of Madeleine and the friends of the parents are not suspects.
    When someone is a suspect, is because there are evidences that appoint him.
    At this point, if we dont classified that suspect as ARGUIDO, that is made by the the Public Ministry Procurator). The classification as ARGUIDO is used to protect the rights (Me: Our Constituition) of the suspect. (Me: Right to be questioned in the presence of a lawyer, controled inquiries, etc…).
    At this point, neither PJ or the Procurator of the Republic made them as ARGUIDO, so there are not, at this point, suspects of nothing.
    .

    I believe that the last bit is very important when we hear that "The Portuguese police said the parents are not suspects."

    I appears to me that the term "suspect" in Portugal would only apply if a person was placed in Arguido status. Therefore, suspect is the wrong word. I believe we would get a different answer if the question was asked like this: "Are the parents under suspicion?"

    It is also interesting to note that once a person is placed under Arguido status they would then be entitled to the "Right to be questioned in the presence of a lawyer, controled inquiries, etc…" It occurs to me that the PJ would rather have the access to the McCanns that they now enjoy.

    Make sense?
     
  9. colomom

    colomom Inactive

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    Intuition is a wonderful thing....:cool:
     
  10. angelmom

    angelmom The love stays...forever in our hearts

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    It makes perfect sense. I think the arguido status is probably similar to the point (in the US) where someone would have to be Mirandized before they could be further questioned.

    IOW, LE might think the parents could have had something to do with it and question them, but they don't have to advise them of Miranda until they officially become suspects. Just b/c they have not been Mirandized does not mean they have been cleared of all suspicion.

    That is what I think this interview is trying to say. There is no evidence at this point to incriminate OR exculpate the parents.

    Good catch!
     
  11. sherri79

    sherri79 Former Member

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    if i read that link correct colomom it sounds like they did not really check for blood or any evidence she was dead at the start. they just took the parents at their word til things stopped adding up.

    it sounds like you are right about the word "suspect".
     
  12. Jdee

    Jdee Sometimes I scream inside my head. I scream for th

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    Good point and Madeleine dieing in the apartment alone by some accident and her parents discovering her deceased had not occured to me.
    However what I have a hard time with here is the McCann's going to the Pope. If they are at all involved in their daughter's 'disapearance' I have a hard time getting my head around their visiting the Pope to ask for his prayers in finding their daughter. I can grasp them lieing to the public and the LE about the events of that night but I lean more to their lies having to do with fear of their losing their two remaining children for leaving them unatended, and not their involvement in Madeleine's disapearance, but I can't grasp them lieing to the Pope IF they did...
     
  13. CaliKid

    CaliKid Former Member

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    You have the parents insisting that their child was kidnapped, not merely disappeared. It's possible that they might even have "manufactured" evidence of this, such as insisting Cuddle Cat (which Madeleine wasn't even sleeping with) could only have been thrown up on the window sill by an adult. And you have the British ambassador calling up the Portuguese ambassador within hours to make sure the McCann family gets all the help they need. No wonder the PJ didn't look at the idea of her dying from the get-go.
     
  14. Jdee

    Jdee Sometimes I scream inside my head. I scream for th

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    Cali was Cuddle Cat on the 'window sill'? I have not heard that.. I just heard it was high up on a shelf. If it was on a window sill could Madeleine or the perp have dropped it on their way out the window IF that was the route of escape? And of course that is IF she was taken at all...
     
  15. Texana

    Texana Overreaching

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    But they wouldn't have necessarily lied to the Pope, it's not as if he asked them questions--rather, he was with them for a few minutes (probably attended by a cardinal or two or three) and he most likely just blessed them and prayed for them, etc.

    Did they ask to meet the Pope by themselves? If they didn't, then they couldn't very well turn it down, could they? "Oh, no thanks, we don't want to meet with the Holy Father this week."

    And like the Ramseys, what one parent knows or doesn't know, doesn't necessarily include the other parent.
     
  16. CaliKid

    CaliKid Former Member

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    You may be right. I've heard two versions- shelf and high sill. But Madeleine's "favorite" toy hadn't even been given to her yet. She was sleeping with a blanket, not Cuddle Cat.
     
  17. Shazza

    Shazza Former Member

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    Maybe because Madelaine was hard to get to sleep that night, she was being punished and therefore cuddle cat was put out of reach, or if she was sedated the parents could have put the cat up high and forgotten to put it with her when she did fall asleep..
    The word suspect in an earlier thread was explained very well as to not put the McCanns offside, I think they are being scrutinised very closely.
     
  18. Elphaba

    Elphaba Defying Gravity...

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    wow... couldn't agree with you more, Cali... the man seriously needs to research his topics before ranting against them.
     
  19. Salem

    Salem Former Member

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    A new link - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2259861.ece

    This says they think some of the DNA tests have been sent to Portugal. How come we are not hearing anything? Does that mean the tests were inconclusive, the blood was not hers or they are playing things very close to the chest to see what the McCanns do next?

    Salem
     
  20. Salem

    Salem Former Member

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    Here's a snip ~

    The traces, which were not visible to the naked eye, were sent for testing at the headquarters of the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham. The first set of results from the tests is believed to have already been sent to Portugal.

    The bolding is mine. These PLE are very hmmmmm, what is the right word? Sneaky?

    Is there anything new from SOL or the Daily Notice?

    Salem
     
  21. colomom

    colomom Inactive

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    Jornal de Noticias 15 AUG

    There could be more suspects if the PJ prove Madeleines death

    Alexandra Seródio, e Marisa Rodrigues

    The exam results of the samples collected at the apartment where Madeleine disappeared last May 3rd, should be ready tomorrow according to the staff of the forensic laboratory in Birmingham. The revelation as to whether the blood found on the wall and on a curtain in the McCanns bedroom is or isnt Madeleines would depend on the PJ, as, according to laboratory sources, the English laboratory staff have no authorization to reveal that.

    Though the results are awaited with some expectations on the part of the investigators, the PJ guarantee that it will not be decisive as per the investigation. According to Olegario Sousa, the spokesman for the PJ for this case, ‘there is other evidence to sustain the theory of the child´s death, besides the samples collected´. The investigation does not solely depend on the results that will come from England.

    “Its not just these samples that support our theory that the child is dead, but a combination and cross referencing of all data, from the detailed scrutiny of the case and witnesses, together with the samples, ” explained the chief inspector to the Journal Nacional, admiting that the face to face meeting between Robert Murat – the only suspect of the case – and the three English friends of the McCanns who were also on holiday at the Ocean Club “ also could have contributed that this theory (that the child is dead) has credibility’.

    The spokesman for the PJ said that the disappearance of Madeleine ‘ is complex and extremely difficult to investigate as it involves a child and therefore is an emotional issue for people’. Despite that, however, ‘never has there been collected so much evidence from a crime scene by trained teams such as in this situation’.

    Questioned about the fact that only now blood samples were collected and two highly trained dogs from England (specialized in detecting blood and cadaver smells) were used, Olegario Sousa pointed out that initially the investigation was focussed on a disappearance – ‘ on a living child and not a dead one’.

    With the possibility that Madeleine is dead, though the hypotheses of kidnapping for adoption or sexual abuse will still be followed up, Olegario Sousa admits the possibility that new suspects may be named.

    As for the McCann couple and their friends who holidayed at the Ocean Club, the spokesman said that until this moment ‘all are witnesses.’
     
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