Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread #27

[haden]

I not only want them to find a solution, I want to see Madeleine get the justice she deserves.


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Isn't it much better idea Madeleine being returned to her loving family who fought so much to get her back?

 

[Linda7NJ]

In life in general, if you believe enough, it happens!

If only it were that easy...

All those missing children & adults would be found, safe and alive.


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[song22]

I was very active on another case in which folks were divided into two camps. One group strongly believed the parent did it and the other group fiercely defended the parent in question. I thought the parent did it for sure. he case is still unsolved and I still believe the parent is the main suspect. But I have always said that if it turned out I was wrong and the was some kind of crazy freak intruder/abductor scenario after all, I wouldn't be surprised. I have seen so many cases with the most unexpected twists and turns.

It is strange now to be in the pro-parent camp. but again, if It came to pass that the parents did it, I wouldn't be surprised either. i am really curious about the consensus that the McCanns don't behave like grieving parents. I have said this about other parents. but I don't see this here. The interviews I have seen show two people who look exhausted, sick, burdened with grief and angry. I sense a lot of fury, which I would carry as well if my child was abducted and if there was no justice and if I had been dragged through hell. So does anyone have any particular interview or video I should watch, to get an idea of what people are talking about? Im genuinely curious and open minded.

 

[Inana]

I just don't believe that was the reason the sofa was moved. Kids playing behind it...eyeroll.
IMO her little body was hidden back there for a bit.

I've never understood why the sofa against the wall was an issue. I think they moved it against the wall to keep the kids from running the circle around the furniture. My home has a layout that creates a circle through the kitchen, dining room, family room, living room and back into the kitchen. Every kid in my family found the circle fairly quickly and liked to tear through the track like it was laid out just for that reason. Two 2-year-olds and a three-year-old would love that! Squealing and laughing as they go.

Just my humble opinion

 

[Linda7NJ]

I've never understood why the sofa against the wall was an issue. I think they moved it against the wall to keep the kids from running the circle around the furniture. My home has a layout that creates a circle through the kitchen, dining room, family room, living room and back into the kitchen. Every kid in my family found the circle fairly quickly and liked to tear through the track like it was laid out just for that reason. Two 2-year-olds and a three-year-old would love that! Squealing and laughing as they go.

Just my humble opinion

Yes, but look at the tiny bit of time those children spent in the apartment. Surely, it wasn't enough time to have kids playing behind the sofa long enough to be bothersome.

Their schedule
Daycare all morning, lunch with parents, daycare all afternoon, feed kids dinner... Baths, meet up with friends & kids on playground, bed by 7!

The only anomaly, on the last day Kate never made it to the playground with the children.
I have to ask myself why.
I have to ask myself why dogs hit behind that sofa and in the closet.


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[CHERIE.T]

Isn't it much better idea Madeleine being returned to her loving family who fought so much to get her back?

damn right

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I was very active on another case in which folks were divided into two camps. One group strongly believed the parent did it and the other group fiercely defended the parent in question. I thought the parent did it for sure. he case is still unsolved and I still believe the parent is the main suspect. But I have always said that if it turned out I was wrong and the was some kind of crazy freak intruder/abductor scenario after all, I wouldn't be surprised. I have seen so many cases with the most unexpected twists and turns.

It is strange now to be in the pro-parent camp. but again, if It came to pass that the parents did it, I wouldn't be surprised either. i am really curious about the consensus that the McCanns don't behave like grieving parents. I have said this about other parents. but I don't see this here. The interviews I have seen show two people who look exhausted, sick, burdened with grief and angry. I sense a lot of fury, which I would carry as well if my child was abducted and if there was no justice and if I had been dragged through hell. So does anyone have any particular interview or video I should watch, to get an idea of what people are talking about? Im genuinely curious and open minded.

I just look into the mother's eyes----the darting away, the looking down, the giving up, the lack of vigor, the guilt that I see (but heck, I've been accused of being jaded and cynical before).
moo

 

[Inana]

I'm not sure if there was enough of room behind the couch to fit Maddie there. Look at the picture 12, the couch is moved so much towards the window, that it presses the curtains against the wall. And even if there was enough of place, McCanns, and later the PJ allegedly searched every cranny and nook and apartment. There would be no way they would not have found her if she was lying there. And McCanns would have no opportunity to take her body from 5A and hide.

In the interviews with previous tenants of 5A, PJ asked where the sofa was located and they said about 60cm from the wall (about 2 feet, for we Yanks.)

 

[~n/t~]

Because that only makes it more complicated and I like to keep it simple. Note that opening the curtains (and then the window) would already give you extra light. Can't believe the room is still pitch black then. Much better and safer than f.i. using a flash light that always can be seen from the front and the back of the building. So, pretty much a pro we are dealing with here.

A pro or someone who knew exactly where Madeleine was sleeping.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Isn't it much better idea Madeleine being returned to her loving family who fought so much to get her back?

Based on their previous performance, possibly not.

Obviously everyone wants a live Madeleine but the dogs indicated she died in 5a, and the McCanns indicated to the entire world that they believe she is dead, by what they didn't say on Crimewatch.

They did not refer to her returning home once. They did not speak to a live Madeleine.

They appear believe she is deceased. :moo:

 

[Inana]

I don't know if this has been discussed before. When I was reading the McCann files concerning the disappearance of Joana Capriano, I started to create a timeline of events that happened in that case and bouncing them off of Madeleine's case.

Interestingly enough, on May 4, 2007, the day after Madeleine was kidnapped, Gonçalo Amaral was officially made an Arguido in the case of the prison beating of Leonor Capriano, mother of little Joana. Same basic story as Madeleine's, child disappears never to be seen again. Except that Amaral, his buddy and three officers were charged with the beating, etc...I think you know that story as it lead to Amaral's falsification conviction.

It is written that Amaral was furious about being made an Arguido. He felt humiliated and embarrassed and surely felt like he had something to prove. So, he is very angry when he first arrives at the McCann apartment, and in my opinion, takes it out on the McCann's for what he considers his injustice in a very similar case.

This is the basis of why the McCann's DID express concern over his overseeing their case, and when he so obviously focused on them as the only possibility, they began to be concerned about their own safety. Would they decide to beat a confession out of Kate? or Gerry? History said it had been done before.

When one is an arguido in Portugal, the PJ can remand that person to jail for up to three years without formal charges. PJ needs a reason, of course and with Amaral not being shy about making stuff up, it wouldn't take much to lock the McCanns up.

The day after the McCanns were made arguido's, they left for the UK before any restrictions could be filed requiring them to stay in Portugal. They did, after all have to work, and raise the twins.

So, in the five months he was on this case, Amaral was quite involved with his own problems, and I think it severely skewed any rational judgment he might have had.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I don't know if this has been discussed before. When I was reading the PJ files concerning the disappearance of Joana Capriano, I started to create a timeline of events that happened in that case and bouncing them off of Madeleine's case.

Interestingly enough, on May 4, 2007, the day after Madeleine was kidnapped, Gonçalo Amaral was officially made an Arguido in the case of the prison beating of Leonor Capriano, mother of little Joana. Same basic story as Madeleine's, child disappears never to be seen again. Except that Amaral, his buddy and three officers were charged with the beating, etc...I think you know that story as it lead to Amaral's falsification conviction.

It is written that Amaral was furious about being made an Arguido. He felt humiliated and embarrassed and surely felt like he had something to prove. So, he is very angry when he first arrives at the McCann apartment, and in my opinion, takes it out on the McCann's for what he considers his injustice in a very similar case.

This is the basis of why the McCann's DID express concern over his overseeing their case, and when he so obviously focused on them as the only possibility, they began to be concerned about their own safety. Would they decide to beat a confession out of Kate? or Gerry? History said it had been done before.

When one is an arguido in Portugal, the PJ can remand that person to jail for up to three years without formal charges. PJ needs a reason, of course and with Amaral not being shy about making stuff up, it wouldn't take much to lock the McCanns up.

The day after the McCanns were made arguido's, they left for the UK before any restrictions could be filed requiring them to stay in Portugal. They did, after all have to work, and raise the twins.

So, in the five months he was on this case, Amaral was quite involved with his own problems, and I think it severely skewed any rational judgment he might have had.

Amaral was not the only officer in the PJ.

Amaral did not cue the dogs, nor plant the DNA.

Amaral did not interview nor prime the Smith family.

It's not Amaral's fault that every lead goes straight back to the parents.

You say he was skewed but the SY investigation is almost literally tracing his steps.

I don't really care what is alleged to have happened in another case. Clinton lied, it didn't make him a useless or corrupt president. Like Clinton, Amaral has never served one second jail time so trying to make out he's anything but a normal human being with faults is just not going to work.

I know of no other case where LE is held entirely responsible for the actions of others.

 

[leilarose68]

I was very active on another case in which folks were divided into two camps. One group strongly believed the parent did it and the other group fiercely defended the parent in question. I thought the parent did it for sure. he case is still unsolved and I still believe the parent is the main suspect. But I have always said that if it turned out I was wrong and the was some kind of crazy freak intruder/abductor scenario after all, I wouldn't be surprised. I have seen so many cases with the most unexpected twists and turns.

It is strange now to be in the pro-parent camp. but again, if It came to pass that the parents did it, I wouldn't be surprised either. i am really curious about the consensus that the McCanns don't behave like grieving parents. I have said this about other parents. but I don't see this here. The interviews I have seen show two people who look exhausted, sick, burdened with grief and angry. I sense a lot of fury, which I would carry as well if my child was abducted and if there was no justice and if I had been dragged through hell. So does anyone have any particular interview or video I should watch, to get an idea of what people are talking about? Im genuinely curious and open minded.

to me, if the mccanns seem frustrated it's because they're first and foremost upset they're facing scrutiny, not because they still haven't found their daughter.
they always seem nervous and very careful and without any kind of urgency (from the hours after madeleine went missing up until now). if there's any small show of emotion it's always to do with them being upset at being fingered as suspects/the general toll of having to answer questions from skeptics. they never cry or act upset when speaking about madeleine.
have you watched the interview gerry did with paxman? watch it on youtube if you haven't. it is very very strange. the focus isn't on madeleine at all; he basically is incredibly nervous throughout the interview to the point of sweating buckets and devoid of any emotion with regard to madeleine. he is all business and incredibly defensive. seems more concerned with the media and his portrayal in it than where his daughter might be at that very second.

i agree that people respond to grief differently and especially right after the situation happens, but the fact that the mccanns have exhibited this tense, cold, nervous and calculated behavior all along is very odd to me. to me, their behavior reads like people who are incredibly careful to maintain a facade of innocence, dutifully going to interviews, creating PR opportunities etc + absolutely terrified that they will say a wrong word and be found out. thus they are incredibly tense all the time and everything is so indirect with them. it's like they're guilty politicians making the mandatory media rounds to try to get elected, not parents absolutely desperate to find their missing daughter


their behavior in interviews actually reminds me a LOT of the ramseys, whom most people very well-acquainted with that case believe are not innocent.

 

[Estelle]

The Judge wouldn't allow a search of actual calls of the TAPAS 9 prior to 19:00hrs on 03/05/2007. Can't remember the actual wording without checking, but to paraphrase the Judge allowed checks on calls after that date /time as being after the fact.

Think it very telling that a Judge reviewed the submission and went for 19:00hrs. Why not 19:30hrs when the children were put to bed? Or 20:30 when the MCs left the apartment? Or the last sighting at 21:05?

KM was alone with the children between 18:00-1900hrs, apart from DP's alleged visit - which I think DID happen because KM and children hadn't gone out for the pre-bed play as usual. Something happened which prevented them going out.

Follow the phones... I think SY are...

IMO the secret to solving this case is the analysis of the deleted and other mobile phone records as well as the forged signatures on the creche records. This should establish a new time of death and the tapas9 can be re-interviewed. IMO the present time of death is WRONG.

For me the mobile phones and (especially) the deleted calls have always been priority potential evidence. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that I believe they are the only real hope of a breakthrough in this case, unless DNA analysis is able to come up with an advanced re-evaluation.

From PJ Files: Analysis Report of First 11 Volumes
"On the annex 90, there is a detailed analysis developed based on the hypothesis that the author of the kidnapping acted with the help of another individual, and that both activated on the same minute, only on the 3rd, one of the antennas at Praia da Luz. This means, they both would activate cells in Praia da Luz simultaneously. It was taken as reference the statements of Jane Tanner and Gerald McCann and it was admitted that this contact, short, had occurred between 21:00 and 21:20h."

Why would innocent parents when they have lost a child do anything like deleting their mobile phone calls/texts?

Gerry and Kate McCann's fury after 14 texts slur

Gerry McCann reacted angrily yesterday to claims he received a string of mystery texts the day before his daughter vanished.

Police applied to Portugal's supreme court to seize his phone records after learning of the alleged messages.

They claim Gerry was sent 10 texts from an unknown number 24 hours before Madeleine disappeared.

And detectives say four messages arrived from the same mystery number the day after she went missing, according to court documents.

The Deleted Phone Records

Why would Kate selectively delete everything up to Thursday 3rd May 2007 with the exception of one wrong number and what was her reason for deleting three of the four calls, between 23.14 and 23.17, from her husband on that critical night?

A possible answer is that she wished to avoid alerting the PJ to evidence that details of around 40 calls had been erased and she felt happier leaving something uncontroversial (or misleading) in memory for them to find.

Another answer is that, unsurprisingly, she was under the most extreme stress imaginable following the disappearance of her daughter: but why, in that case, give priority to deleting anything? It is the last thing most parents would think about in the circumstances.

The first call found in Gerald’s mobile memory was timed at 00.30 on Friday 4th May 2007. Again matching antenna records to memory suggests that by the time he gave the handset to the PJ the records of 24 calls or SMSs had been erased, including the one from him found on his wife’s handset and timed at 23.17 on Thursday 3rd May 2007.

It appears that he had deleted details of the four calls he made to her that night and she deleted just three. It was this simple discrepancy that first led the PJ to suspect interference with the handsets.

Mrs McCann volunteered to the PJ that on the night of Wednesday 2nd May 2007, she had slept in the spare bed in her children’s room because her husband had not paid her enough attention over dinner.

Or put another way, does she mean the amorous Scot was paying someone else (like Miss Chekeya) too much attention, causing her to stomp out of the Tapas Bar before him: ultimately leading to the spare bed in a strop?

Gerald McCann said he thought the reason his wife had slept in the children’s bedroom was because of his snoring and that he did not even bother asking her the following morning what the problem was."

Who really knows what was going on then.

“No one has ever asked to see any of my text messages. There is no way that there 16 messages on that day or even the day after, you know. you know, the day after, you know that we got…” Kate McCann came to his rescue and interrupted; “Gerry hardly ever sends text messages until the day after, the day after Madeleine was taken”. Gerald McCann continued: “so you know that it is actually rubbish”

http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-huma...9/10/deleted-call-records-where-was-kate.html

http://themccanngallery.blogspot.com/2009/10/lies-of-kate-and-gerry-mccann-deleted.html

With credit to Kepharel who said "These are really just curiosities that I have noticed along the way and are of doubtful significance. I have called them

· The Tapas Comms table which lists the almost barren landscape of Gerry’s communications with his Tapas pals’ mobiles from the 4th May (none) to the 13th May. I just thought there would be more of them.

· The Invisible Man table Which is a list of all the calls made to Gerry (and 1 for Murat) for which the callers number in the phone logs remained blank. As I have never owned a mobile, and not received any of these kinds of phone statements, I would love to know the circumstances around which this can happen. I’m sure some Mobile savvy forum member can explain, so I can dismiss from my attention.

· The Unsocial Hours table which lists calls being made and taken when everyone should be tucked up in bed. The 4th of May needs no explanation, naturally, but there are bouts of night owl activity after this date.

The Tapas Comms Table

Date Account Caller Name called Name Time Text
05 May 2007 44778***188 778***188 Gerry McCann 774***837 David Payne 9:45:12
05 May 2007 44778***188 771***795 Russell O'Brien 778***188 Gerry McCann 19:45:27 MTSMS
07 May 2007 44778***188 778***188 Gerry McCann 771***795 Russell O'Brien 22:34:08 MOSMS
09 May 2007 44778***188 771***795 Russell O'Brien 778***188 Gerry McCann 11:43:48
12 May 2007 44778***188 778***188 Gerry McCann 774***837 David Payne 10:21:25
13 May 2007 44778***188 771***795 Russell O'Brien 778***188 Gerry McCann 09:14:02
13 May 2007 44778***188 771***795 Russell O'Brien 778***188 Gerry McCann 13:45:48
13 May 2007 44778***188 771***795 Russell O'Brien 778***188 Gerry McCann 18:36:44

The Invisible Man Table

Date Account Name Caller called Time Text
03 May 2007 35191***518 R Murat 913***518 15:42:24
04 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 09:04:16
04 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 09:05:38
04 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 09:41:52
04 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 10:11:21
04 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 10:42:58
04 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 12:10:19
04 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 13:43:57
08 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 10:15:05
08 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 16:08:06
08 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 17:41:25 MTSMS
08 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 19:14:16 MOSMS
08 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 21:05:17 SMS
09 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 09:12:31
09 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 11:31:45
09 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 12:34:44
09 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 21:09:48 MTSMS
09 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 22:06:31 MOSMS
10 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 06:58:21
11 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 14:28:46 MTSMS
13 May 2007 44778***188 G Mcann 778***188 21:00:31

The Unsocial Hours Table

Date Name Caller Name called Name Time
04 May 2007 G Mcann 116***061 778***188 Gerry McCann 00:45:15
04 May 2007 G Mcann 962***556 778***188 Gerry McCann 00:47:41
04 May 2007 G Mcann 778***188 Gerry McCann 962***556 1:16:11
04 May 2007 G Mcann 185***157 778***188 Gerry McCann 01:29:58
04 May 2007 G Mcann 141***874 778***188 Gerry McCann 01:43:55
04 May 2007 G Mcann 776***713 777***461 Rachael Oldfield 01:58:33
04 May 2007 G Mcann 778***188 Gerry McCann 778***005 04:14:44
04 May 2007 G Mcann 778***188 Gerry McCann 778***005 04:15:23
04 May 2007 G Mcann 778***188 Gerry McCann 778***005 04:15:43
04 May 2007 G Mcann 780***332 778***188 Gerry McCann 04:19:02
04 May 2007 G Mcann 778***005 778***188 Gerry McCann 04:20:34
04 May 2007 R Murat 911***359 913***518 Robert Murat 03:35:54
04 May 2007 R Murat 911***359 913***518 Robert Murat 03:37:46
04 May 2007 Rachael Oldfield 777***1461 Rachael Oldfield 776***713 01:42:55
04 May 2007 Rachael Oldfield 776***713 777***1461 Rachael Oldfield 01:58:23
04 May 2007 Rachael Oldfield 776***713 777***1461 Rachael Oldfield 02:22:45
04 May 2007 Rachael Oldfield 549***752 777***1461 Rachael Oldfield 02:33:28
05 May 2007 G Mcann 778***310 778***188 Gerry McCann 01:40:59
05 May 2007 G Mcann 778***310 778***188 Gerry McCann 01:41:05
05 May 2007 G Mcann 778***188 Gerry McCann 351*****121 1:42:19
05 May 2007 G Mcann 778***188 Gerry McCann 797***017 4:56:39
05 May 2007 G Mcann 797***017 778***188 Gerry McCann 05:01:00
06 May 2007 R Murat 773***605 913***518 Robert Murat 01:08:51
07 May 2007 G Mcann 778***188 Gerry McCann 778***005 00:46:40
11 May 2007 G Mcann 790***814 778***188 Gerry McCann 01:17:25
11 May 2007 G Mcann 778***188 Gerry McCann 778***005 02:44:18
11 May 2007 G Mcann 031***0000 778***188 Gerry McCann 02:44:59
11 May 2007 G Mcann 780***332 778***188 Gerry McCann 02:45:03
11 May 2007 G Mcann 778***005 778***188 Gerry McCann 02:50:11
11 May 2007 G Mcann 778***005 778***188 Gerry McCann 02:50:15
11 May 2007 G Mcann 778***188 Gerry McCann 778***005 02:50:35
11 May 2007 G Mcann 778***188 Gerry McCann 778***005 02:52:23
11 May 2007 G Mcann 778***005 778***188 Gerry McCann 02:52:56
12 May 2007 G Mcann 778***998 778***188 Gerry McCann 04:16:33
12 May 2007 G Mcann 778***998 778***188 Gerry McCann 04:16:40

 

[Estelle]

A mobile ’phone secretly intercepted some time in early August 2009 between Gerry McCann and Clarence Mitchell.

CM: Gerry, hi, have you got five?

GM: Well, no more than that…by the way, how are we getting on with Hewlett? Has he revealed what that tipsy gypsy told them yet?

CM: Skip that, he's not go long to live anyway, look, we’ve got a really great idea for our next ‘sighting’.

GM: The last one was on a plane to Venezuala wasn’t it?

CM: No, I think it was a girl in a Canadian school concert that came about soon after we published those age-progressed photos of Madeleine on Oprah, but never mind. No, I think we can develop a great story around someone asking about Madeleine on Barcelona docks.

GM: What? When was this?

CM: Well according to our source, this happened three days after Madeleine disappeared…

GM: Three days! What does this source say?

CM: Well, he’d been on a pub crawl round the bars of downtown Barcelona, er, on the night of Sunday 6th to Monday 7th May, and round about 2am he saw this agitated woman in expensive-looking blue jeans walking up and down…

GM: How many pints had he had?

CM: Quite a lot I expect, but we’ll just say ‘he had been drinking’…er, yes, and this girl, well woman, came up to him and said: ‘Have you got my new daughter?’(DRUGS)

GM: What did he say?

CM: Er, we’re a bit vague on that at the moment, I think he said ‘No’. Or he might have said ‘Pardon me’ and she repeated: ‘Have you got my new daughter?’ and then he said ‘No’. I’ll check that bit out.

GM: Why the heck didn’t he tell anyone for the past two-and-a-half years?

CM: Well, two things, I think, first of all, he’s a British banker, quite high up, and of course he didn’t want to risk publicity, plus he’s married and he didn’t want to admit to chatting to girls in downtown Barcelona at 2.00am, the other thing is, I really can’t tell you just how this man’s agonised and agonised for the past two years over this, his conscience has tormented him for two years, and of course he wants all this to be anonymous, but he just thought we ought to know as of course we’re the only ones looking for Madeleine.

GM: Well, do we have a description of this, er woman?

CM: As a matter of fact, yes! She had short hair, spoke in an Australian accent, and the banker said she looked like Victoria Beckham.

GM: What, who looks like Victorian Beckham?!

CM: I know, I know, but just think of the headlines: ‘Victoria Beckham lookalike”.

GM: Hmmm, yes, of course. Who are we teeing this one up for? - The Sun or the News of the World again, or the Mail on Sunday?

CM: Well, I had lunch at the Ritz with the News of the World editor yesterday - he wants it of course, on the usual terms - then I plan a press conference with artists’ sketches of the woman and of course I want to highlight the role of our private investigation team so I’ll have Edgar up there doing his ‘Crimestoppers’ stuff…

GM: Did we use Melissa Little again for this sketch?

CM: Yes.

GM: How much did she charge for that one?

CM: Her usually hourly rate.

GM: But this Australian woman could be anywhere in the world?

CM: Aha! No! You see there was a yacht bound for Australia early morning that day and in all probability this Victoria Beckham-lookalike was on that boat, so, er, we say she’s probably in Australia and we get the Australian police and the Australian media to cover it, obviously as you know Rupe is an Aussie and owns half of the media over there so that’s no problem…

GM: Sounds pretty improbable to me - are the British media and public going to fall for this one?

CM: They have so far.

GM: Wait a minute. You said you wanted Edgar on there as well?

CM: Yes, yes. The public will go for it because they want to know their money’s going on some real detectives. It looks good on telly because Edgar can answer any questions about the investigation and sound important as he talks about ‘strong leads’ and all that stuff…

GM: Yes but Edgar’s not impressed me so far, I mean what about his latest ruse of saying he’s ‘convinced’ that Madeleine is being held in a prison lair near Praia da Luz…look I’m not going to authorise him to run with that one until I know how this Victoria Beckham lookalike story is going to run…

CM: Don’t forget Edgar is Brian Kennedy’s man, Bri and Paddy [Patrick Kennedy] need some kudos from this, I mean he’s bought that Knutsford house and is paying Edgar from some source or other, so we’ve got to keep him sweet…

GM: Sorry, I don’t like it, to be honest Edgar’s such a fool he could even blurt out that Jane Tanner saw a woman that night not a man…

CM: Don’t be silly…

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

6 Aug 2009 ... Madeleine McCann's parents to trace 'Victoria Beckham lookalike' ... McCann
family spokesman Clarence Mitchell at a press conference in ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ents-to-trace-Victoria-Beckham-lookalike.html
· Madeleine McCann: Victoria Beckham Lookalike Woman Suspect In ...


6 Aug 2009 ... The pair gave details of the development at a press conference in London. ...
Madeleine: Victoria Beckham Lookalike Hunt. story tracker ...
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...arch-For-Missing-Girl/Article/200908115355466
· Madeleine McCann: Hunt For 'Victoria Beckham Lookalike' As New ...


6 Aug 2009 ... Madeleine McCann and Victoria Beckham ... Watch the press ...
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK...ct-Revealed-By-Police/Article/200908115355214
· Madeleine McCann hunt: 'Victoria Beckham lookalike' sought by ...


6 Aug 2009 ... Madeleine McCann hunt: 'Victoria Beckham lookalike' sought by police ... He told
a press conference in central London : "Madeleine most ...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...m-lookalike-sought-by-police-115875-21575700/
· Victoria Beckham 'lookalike' sought in Madeleine McCann case | UK ...

6 Aug 2009 ... Victoria Beckham 'lookalike' sought in Madeleine McCann case ... was released
today at a London press conference by a family spokesman, ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/06/victoria-beckham-lookalike-madeleine-mccann
· The 'Victoria Beckham lookalike' in the hunt for Madeleine McCann ...

8 Aug 2009 ... Madeleine McCann on May 2, 2007 - the day before she disappeared ... thought to
be Australian, at a press conference in London, ...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eleine-McCann-asked-tourist-new-daughter.html
· Anorak News » Photofit Of 'Victoria Beckham' Madeleine McCann Suspect

mccann victoria beckham suspect Photofit Of Victoria Beckham Madeleine McCann
... By the way, at the end of the press conference Mitchell states that Edgar
http://www.anorak.co.uk/219198/made...ictoria-beckham-madeleine-mccann-suspect.html
· Madeleine McCann search turns to Victoria Beckham look-alike with ...

6 Aug 2009 ... Madeleine McCann search turns to Victoria Beckham look-alike with ... lead at a
London press conference attended by journalists from Spain, ...
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...th-aussie-accent/story-e6frg6n6-1225758520137
· Aussie Woman Sought in New Madeleine McCann Twist - International ...

6 Aug 2009 ... Aussie Woman Sought in New Madeleine McCann Twist, A computerized sketch has
been released of a 'Victoria Beckham lookalike' private ...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,537620,00.html
· 'Victoria Beckham Lookalike' Sought In Madeleine McCann Case - UK ...

6 Aug 2009 ... At a press conference in London today, David Edgar, ... of British girl
Madeleine McCann are seeking a 'Victoria Beckham' lookalike with an ...
http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=97613

 

[Estelle]

One would suspect there could be many of these telephone conversations ready to be revealed.

Only last year, one heard there were transcripts of Payne and McCann.

And allegedly a hotel room was bugged whilst Fiona Payne and Kate McCann were staying there.

 

[Estelle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WaNMPZJ1jw

 

[goldengirl57]

:lol:

I've heard of sleuthers using their hubbies to experiment upon but this is the first time I've heard of a grandchild being lobbed about!

You're right of course, it is almost impossible for this scenario to have occurred.

Add in the fact that the only fingerprints found in the "open window" position were Kate's, and you have something which definitely needs explaining.

:cow:

lol, he was perfect because he was the childs age, by one month. Yes a little taller but not by much.

He loved it, I told him he had to pretend to be a sleep so we even got a few snores lol.

No thinking back then it was flipping hard work and I even hurt my shoulder.

I had the chair under the window too so did like the photograph, jeez, SS, it was really dodgy and dangerous for both of us.

That is why I have always discounted the window scenario. It would be hard enough for me to climb out of it on my own to be honest, unless I took the extending clip out which is very fiddly....then of course dont forget did the SHUTTERS go ALL THE WAY UP?

IF the shutters stop 3/4 way up there is certainly no way you could get out. Then there is the drop the otherside. There would be no way I wouldnt be able to have used the wall for leverage IF that is i got that far.

The only possible way even awkward would be 2 people, but it wouldnt be easy then.....

He was rewarded anyway for his play acting lol he got another POWER RANGER for his collection lol.

 

[goldengirl57]

Golden girl, I don't find your theory far fetched at all; I think it's plausible.

Upon finding (eventually) their dead child behind the sofa, why would any parent leap into action to cover up and dispose of the body? This, to me, means only one thing - something about the state of the child would mean certain jail time to the parents. I'm not talking physical mess of a dead body here, but there must have been something that the LE would find in an autopsy that would send the parents off to jail for sure - drugs/anaesthetics.

Imagine the scenario: all hell is going down in those first few moments, everyone frantic yelling the child's name, searching around outside in the streets nearby, and then lo and behold, the parent spots the child behind the sofa. A moment of realisation that they're totally going to rot in jail for the rest of their days for drugging and manslaughter, and quick into action. Get rid of the evidence, straight away to the garden area by the steps, then quickly to a place away from the apartment such as the rocky part of the beach, somewhere to go back to in the early hours with a holdall to move it further away (bringing the holdall back to the apartment since leaving it with the body would be too risky as it would link back to the parents and mean that the 'abductor' would have taken a child and a bag, making no sense at all).
Leaping on top of the Tanner sighting as this led the eye the other way. The dogs speak only the truth.

Jmo.


Eta: I don't think the deceased child spent time in the parents' closet where the dogs indicated, but the bag that HAD contained her did, AFTER it was bright back to the apartment.

GOOD POINT. There is another theory of mine which would explain that but rather keep it to myself lol.

Also good point about the bag. BUT oddly didnt a blue sports bag go missing out of the apartment according to stuff i read.

Thing is after so long I am never sure if I :

1. Dreamt the informaiton
2. Read it in red top newspapers (discount)
3. Read it on a forum as theory
4. Read it in official files

So it all starts to get a bit muddled. (Doesnt take much with my brain lol).

 

[Estelle]

#McCann avid Payne Phoned The Metropolitan Police Child Abuse Team On May 4th 2007 at 23:13:41 for 100 seconds.....

And when questioned about this call by Leicestershire police, David Payne tried to deny it but when questioned further Payne was forced to admit he had made that call .
--------------
Statement from social worker Yvonne Warren Martin, who thought she recognised David Payne...Yvonne saw Payne in the morning and by the evening Payne was himself ringing 'child abuse' ...possibly Payne also recognised Yvonne.

http://shadplay.blogspot.com/2010/11/witness-statement-yvonne-warren-martin.html

Snippet : The phone call from Paynes rogatory...1485

http://thetapas9drdavidpayne.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/mccann-david-payne-phoned-metropolitan.html?m=1