Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #21

[redplanet]

When KM reduced the open angle of the door, it slammed shut. Fairly obviously this was caused by the open window.
Earlier when GM reduced the open angle of the same door, it did not slam shut. Therefore it seems reasonable to deduce that at the time of GM check, the window was not open.

 

[redplanet]

Thank you. And the window was opened?

Yes the window was open that is what slammed the door.

 

[Dlk79]

Thank you. And the window was opened?

Based on the statements, the window was open when KM checked at 10pm but not when GM checked around 9pm. Whether it was open during MO's check at 9.30 is unclear but based on what he says, it leans towards it not being open at this point either. And, picking up on the other theory about CB possibly being in the apartment during GMs check due to the door moving, there is an implication that maybe he was still in the apartment during MO's check to explain the window moving.

 

[redplanet]

IMO there was absolutely nothing suspicious observed during GM check and it is probable that nothing had yet happened.

 

[redplanet]

dbm

 

[Ardoch]

Based on the statements, the window was open when KM checked at 10pm but not when GM checked around 9pm. Whether it was open during MO's check at 9.30 is unclear but based on what he says, it leans towards it not being open at this point either. And, picking up on the other theory about CB possibly being in the apartment during GMs check due to the door moving, there is an implication that maybe he was still in the apartment during MO's check to explain the window moving.

And did they say whether they had left the window opened when they first left the children?

 

[Zuleika]

Re question asked . Cadaverine can’t be got rid of by washing .

 

[redplanet]

I am not sure about during MO check. But I am fairly sure now (no-slam v slam) that the window was in closed state during GM check. That, plus his all-important observation that the child was still present and safe, indicates that at time of GM check, nothing had yet happened IMO.

 

[Dlk79]

And did they say whether they had left the window opened when they first left the children?

They say they 'believe' the window was fully closed when they left but are unsure whether it was unlocked or not. If not unlocked, the window could have been slid open from the outside. It sounded like they didn't place too much inportance on the window needing to be locked because they were under the impression the shutters on the window could not be lifted from the outside (which they can) and so as long as the shutters were down it didn't matter.

 

[redplanet]

And did they say whether they had left the window opened when they first left the children?

The status of the window was closed when they went out

 

[redplanet]

They say they 'believe' the window was fully closed when they left but are unsure whether it was unlocked or not. If not unlocked, the window could have been slid open from the outside. It sounded like they didn't place too much inportance on the window needing to be locked because they were under the impression the shutters on the window could not be lifted from the outside (which they can) and so as long as the shutters were down it didn't matter.

(reply is in next post)

 

[redplanet]

Yes that is accurate and IMO is how in the previous weeks 3 other apartments with same design shutter and window were entered. As you say, some people are lulled by false assumption that shutter down = safe, so they don't bolt the window, thus guaranteeing a burglar easy entry.

 

[Kraktoa]

So we are back now to the parents?

CB the title of 21 threads on this case has been forgotten? The German police had their moment in the limelight and now its back to endless discussions about shutters and cadaver smells.

 

[redplanet]

So we are back now to the parents?

CB the title of 21 threads on this case has been forgotten? The German police had their moment in the limelight and now its back to endless discussions about shutters and cadaver smells.

IMO any discussion of the shutters or dogs is 100% in the context that an intruder did it.

 

[Newthoughts]

So we are back now to the parents?

CB the title of 21 threads on this case has been forgotten? The German police had their moment in the limelight and now its back to endless discussions about shutters and cadaver smells.

Nope. We're at when and how the perp under suspicion entered the appt. Useful if CBs lawyer tries to use timings to defend his client.

Also whether CB could have killed MM in the appt.

Not sure how you got to the parents from that?

 

[Ardoch]

So we are back now to the parents?

CB the title of 21 threads on this case has been forgotten? The German police had their moment in the limelight and now its back to endless discussions about shutters and cadaver smells.

IMO I asked the question as to whether the parents had stated that the windows were closed or not. I don't know what you mean about "back now to the parents"

 

[redplanet]

Maybe attempted entry at about 21.45 was safer for him than about 21.00 because it then has become even darker? And he is less likely to be seen getting in when it is darker. And if (may be incorrect assumption) he was relying on observing the previous evening he might have assumed a return time maybe after 23.30?

 

[Dlk79]

Maybe attempted entry at about 21.45 was safer for him than about 21.00 because it then has become even darker? And he is less likely to be seen getting in when it is darker. And if (may be incorrect assumption) he was relying on observing the previous evening he might have assumed a return time maybe after 23.30?

On that date, sunset was at about 20.25 and twilight ended about 20.53, so it wouldn't have been any darker at 21.45 than it was at 21.00.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

IMO there was absolutely nothing suspicious observed during GM check and it is probable that nothing had yet happened.

“Absolutely nothing suspicious observed” is IMO a firm position considering even GM thought the door being open was “strange”.

I favour the pre GM check for time of entry because if CB has any awareness of the group, it’s the least risky time to enter. As mentioned too many times before, I think there is at least reasonable doubt that MM woke up, opened the bedroom door, found no parents in the apartment and then hopped back into bed a went to sleep - this occurring within the first 1-1.5 hours of sleep is quite hard for me to accept.

These things said, I would still be only 60:40 on it due to the counter arguments of total time in the apartment and the requirement to hide quickly prior to GM entering the apartment.

Inline with your point above, when do you think is the most likely time for CB to enter the apartment?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

IMO there is an opportunity now to re-interpret the alerts by Eddie as being caused by the actions of an intruder.

As a starting point, please let us know what you’re thinking.