Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #26

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mrjitty

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I thought NM was supposed to be a *key witness in the case against CB, as far as the BKA is concerned?

If so, why and how would she be giving an alleged exclusive to, of all media sources, the Daily Mail?!

If she's a key witness, then she would surely be bound by strict T&Cs imposed and directed by the BKA - as we know, so careful to protect their evidence! - so as not to jeopardise their investigation.

* Madeleine McCann suspect's 'terrified' ex-girlfriend under police protection

Exactly

This kind of thing could damage her testimony

Odd
 

Lilly b

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Out of interest, does anyone know when CB was on trial in anyone of his cases, did he plead guilty to any of them?
 

C.greek

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Exactly

This kind of thing could damage her testimony

Odd
Unless they established his whereabouts independently and told her she could speak to the media now?

That now she would only be a character witness as @Tekno said above? And why would she be a key witness since she was 10 years old at the time? Just some thoughts to explain the sudden change?!
 

misty48

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Out of interest, does anyone know when CB was on trial in anyone of his cases, did he plead guilty to any of them?
Most of CB's convictions were sustained in Germany, where no formal pleas at trial exist. https://www.howtogermany.com/pages/legal.html

He was caught in the act of stealing diesel in Portugal. I don't know how he pleaded in the disobedience or no car insurance incidents but they were misdemeanours.
 

misty48

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Unless they established his whereabouts independently and told her she could speak to the media now?

That now she would only be a character witness as @Tekno said above? And why would she be a key witness since she was 10 years old at the time? Just some thoughts to explain the sudden change?!
NM was nearer 17, not 10 at, the time. She moved to Portugal with CB briefly in 2014. It's unclear exactly when the domestic violence occurred in Braunschweig as press reports state she was deported from Portugal in 2015 which is after his apartment was searched & CSA images found. It would be interesting to know the nature of the crime(s) NM was deported for & whether CB featured in any of them.
Police investigating Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Christian Brueckner hunt ex girlfrriend - 247 News Around The World
 

C.greek

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NM was nearer 17, not 10 at, the time. She moved to Portugal with CB briefly in 2014. It's unclear exactly when the domestic violence occurred in Braunschweig as press reports state she was deported from Portugal in 2015 which is after his apartment was searched & CSA images found. It would be interesting to know the nature of the crime(s) NM was deported for & whether CB featured in any of them.
Police investigating Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Christian Brueckner hunt ex girlfrriend - 247 News Around The World
I meant she was 10 when MM disappeared
 

Anxala

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Exactly

This kind of thing could damage her testimony

Odd

And then some.

The earlier link I posted suggested she was terrified of repercussions for speaking publicly about him, fear that he (with an appeal pending at the time) or his 'associates' might hunt her down, hence the BKA's protection. The fact CB's (rape) appeal was unsuccessful and he remained/remains in prison surely changes nothing as far as she's concerned? He could, after all, still fire up his 'associates' and get them to silence her!!

Either she's a key witness - in which case she'd be bound by BKA's 'code of silence' - or she's just another in a long line of so-called witnesses that, at the end of the day, have nothing useful or significant to add to the actual serious nuts and bolts of the BKA's investigation, and is therefore free to now take any old paycheck from anyone willing to provide one.

The 'revelation' that CB was in the area because he lived in the area at the time is, to say the very least, underwhelming.
 
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Pixie Child

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And then some.

The earlier link I posted suggested she was terrified of repercussions for speaking publicly about him, fear that he (with an appeal pending at the time) or his 'associates' might hunt her down, hence the BKA's protection. The fact CB's (rape) appeal was unsuccessful and he remained/remains in prison surely changes nothing as far as she's concerned? He could, after all, still fire up his 'associates' and get them to silence her!!

Either she's a key witness - in which case she'd be bound by BKA's 'code of silence' - or she's just another in a long line of so-called witnesses that, at the end of the day, have nothing useful or significant to add to the actual serious nuts and bolts of the BKA's investigation, and is therefore free to now take any old paycheck from anyone willing to provide one.

The 'revelation' that CB was in the area because he lived in the area at the time is, to say the very least, underwhelming.

It may seem underwhelming but in a case without a body or forensics, the ‘cumulative effect’ of all these details will be what persuades a court of his guilt.

Newspapers normally wouldn’t publish stories like this until after conviction. The usual rules don’t apply here - no jury, outside UK jurisdiction - but this could be about encouraging inmates to talk to CB. BKA are looking for a confession to an inmate.
 

Dlk79

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I'm not sure NM was ever a key witness, it was only the tabs who actually decided that as far as I can see. Not sure I believe the bit about her being under BKA protection either, at least not in the sense of having someone official watching her 24/7. She was told to keep her head down and keep quiet basically, probably the same as everyone else they spoke to. Her family members were also spoken to by police about CB as well, and they were also told not to talk about CB.... and they then proceeded to tell the Mail everything they knew about him as soon as the case went public.

I don't think they're going to need much in the way of character witnesses in court against CB, his record speaks for itself and no wool will be pulled over an experienced judge's eyes. So unless he happened to tell NM something specific about what he did, or what happened to MM (which judging by the recent article, it sounds like probably not), I doubt her account will be of all that much use. She didn't even meet CB until 7 years after MM disappeared.

So, it sounds to me like she has just decided to join the many other ex-friends, ex-girlfriends, ex-colleagues, ex-associates etc.... in selling her part of the story. Perhaps she was scared initially but felt comfortable to do it now given so many others have and also that BKA are saying they now have enough to charge CB. Could also be something in connection with the upcoming MWT doc that the Mail got wind of. Who knows.

The two witnesses who interest me most at the moment are HB and NF. They've said pretty much nothing to the press and are almost certainly Key Witnesses. But there's likely to be others that we don't even know about, or at least know very little about, such as CP possibly. Also very interested to know what the likes of JJ, TS and CT have to say. Been nothing in the press about whether the man they saw was or wasn't CB and they must surely have been asked that by the tabloids by now unless the press have been told they're off limits.
 
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Lilly b

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Most of CB's convictions were sustained in Germany, where no formal pleas at trial exist. https://www.howtogermany.com/pages/legal.html

He was caught in the act of stealing diesel in Portugal. I don't know how he pleaded in the disobedience or no car insurance incidents but they were misdemeanours.

Thanks for that link, if only just read it, very informative
 

Anxala

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It may seem underwhelming but in a case without a body or forensics, the ‘cumulative effect’ of all these details will be what persuades a court of his guilt.

The thing is though, neither CB nor his own lawyer ever appeared to be contesting the idea that CB was in the area on the 3rd May 2007. On the contrary:

Apologies, it's the DM (I hate linking to them!), but see here, this dates from Oct 2020:
Friedrich Fulscher spoke out after returning from a fact-finding mission to Portugal, which he says left him convinced of Brueckner's innocence. Fulscher said witness accounts of the evening three-year-old Madeleine disappeared from Praia da Luz suggest there is a 90 second window when a kidnapping could have taken place. Fulscher says he has measured the amount of time it would have taken for Brueckner to travel from various locations in the resort to the apartment, and concluded that he could not have done it without getting caught.

On the basis of the above, this NM 'exclusive' adds absolutely nothing of any value to the investigation since it's neither new nor in any way significant.

Madeleine McCann suspect's lawyer says phone records will prove his innocence | Daily Mail Online
 
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Pixie Child

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The thing is though, neither CB nor his own lawyer ever appeared to be contesting the idea that CB was in the area on the 3rd May 2007. On the contrary:

Apologies, it's the DM (I hate linking to them!), but see here, this dates from Oct 2020:


On the basis of the above, this NM 'exclusive' adds absolutely nothing of any value to the investigation since it's neither new nor in any way significant.

Madeleine McCann suspect's lawyer says phone records will prove his innocence | Daily Mail Online

The thing is though, neither CB nor his own lawyer ever appeared to be contesting the idea that CB was in the area on the 3rd May 2007. On the contrary:

Apologies, it's the DM (I hate linking to them!), but see here, this dates from Oct 2020:


On the basis of the above, this NM 'exclusive' adds absolutely nothing of any value to the investigation since it's neither new nor in any way significant.

Madeleine McCann suspect's lawyer says phone records will prove his innocence | Daily Mail Online

I don’t know anything about the German system but in the UK, someone like CB would be advised not to give evidence. CB’s lawyer will likely attack the Prosecution’s case without CB giving any evidence of his whereabouts.

Publicising Miftari & Bartl’s claims doesn’t add value to the investigation save, I imagine, to pressurize CB - let him know that everyone’s giving him up. I suspect they want him confessing to a fellow prisoner. They will also be reading his post & listening to his calls.
 

mrjitty

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Either she's a key witness - in which case she'd be bound by BKA's 'code of silence' - or she's just another in a long line of so-called witnesses that, at the end of the day, have nothing useful or significant to add to the actual serious nuts and bolts of the BKA's investigation, and is therefore free to now take any old paycheck from anyone willing to provide one.

The 'revelation' that CB was in the area because he lived in the area at the time is, to say the very least, underwhelming.

I tend to agree. If this is the extent of her dirt on CB, then she isn't relevant to the trial and likely cashed in.
 

mrjitty

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I don’t know anything about the German system but in the UK, someone like CB would be advised not to give evidence. CB’s lawyer will likely attack the Prosecution’s case without CB giving any evidence of his whereabouts.


I think the trial strategy will depend so much on what the case against him actually is.

I tend to agree he will be a bad witness, and you wouldn't want to expose him to corss examination.

One of the problems the defence may have, is how to get parts of their case into evidence given the amount of time that has gone by.
 

Chiatos

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Somewhat off topic, but since it has to do with online paedo stuff:

Operation 'meet up' in Turin has discovered thousands of horrifying files showing young children being abused.
Don Nicola De Blasio, the director of the Diocese of Benevento (in Southern Italy) has been arrested together with an IT specialist from Piemonte (in the Northern part of Italy). A youngster from Bari bought the paedoporn from the dark web and sold it on to others.
Pedopornografia, in chat migliaia di file 'raccapriccianti' - Piemonte

The Diocese of Benevento:
Don Nicola De Blasio | Caritas Benevento

The director of the Caritas Diocese of Benevento has denied all charges, but for the time being he will remain in custody due to the huge amount of files found in his computer. LE is also investigating the discovery of 170.000 euro's in cash at the priest's home.
Benevento: pedo-pornografia, don Nicola De Blasio resta ai domiciliari

According to Don Nicola, the images had been downloaded and saved to the confiscated computer in 2015 and 2016 with the purpose to investigate paedoporn within the ecclesiastic world. An investigation that in the end did not take place or was not finalised once realisation kicked in that downloading these kind of images is illegal. The images remained in the computer that according to the priest, has been in disuse for years.
Don Nicola, ricorso al Riesame contro il sequestro dei 170mila euro in contanti
 

Lilly b

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Somewhat off topic, but since it has to do with online paedo stuff:

Operation 'meet up' in Turin has discovered thousands of horrifying files showing young children being abused.
Don Nicola De Blasio, the director of the Diocese of Benevento (in Southern Italy) has been arrested together with an IT specialist from Piemonte (in the Northern part of Italy). A youngster from Bari bought the paedoporn from the dark web and sold it on to others.
Pedopornografia, in chat migliaia di file 'raccapriccianti' - Piemonte

The Diocese of Benevento:
Don Nicola De Blasio | Caritas Benevento

The director of the Caritas Diocese of Benevento has denied all charges, but for the time being he will remain in custody due to the huge amount of files found in his computer. LE is also investigating the discovery of 170.000 euro's in cash at the priest's home.
Benevento: pedo-pornografia, don Nicola De Blasio resta ai domiciliari

According to Don Nicola, the images had been downloaded and saved to the confiscated computer in 2015 and 2016 with the purpose to investigate paedoporn within the ecclesiastic world. An investigation that in the end did not take place or was not finalised once realisation kicked in that downloading these kind of images is illegal. The images remained in the computer that according to the priest, has been in disuse for years.
Don Nicola, ricorso al Riesame contro il sequestro dei 170mila euro in contanti
Just sick, disgusting stuff, its all over Internet now,
 

Dlk79

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I came across an article on the 2004 Joao Cipriano case with some details I hadn't seen before.

In the article linked here, it mentions a sighting of a camper van with German plates seen in the area in the days before JC went missing.

https://www.maryhallbergmedia.com/post/2019/08/05/the-disappearance-of-joana-cipriano

The original source for this appears to be a Sky News article that was printed on 12th May 2008. Unfortunately, the original article seems to have been archived/removed but I did manage to find a transcript of it on another site.

'Disturbing Similarities' With Madeleine

12:48pm UK, Monday May 12, 2008
Alex Watts, Sky News Online


The family of a girl who vanished just seven miles from the Portuguese resort where Madeleine McCann disappeared are convinced the cases are connected.

Joana was last seen near church

On the day of Madeleine's fifth birthday, Joana Cipriano's relatives have urged detectives to investigate links between the two disappearances - saying there are too many disturbing similarities for the evidence to be ignored.

Joana, eight, was sent to buy some groceries from a village store near her home in Figueira, at around 8pm on September 12, 2004.

She bought a tin of tuna and some milk from the Ofelia store, and was last seen by a neighbour walking back near the village church, some 200 yards from her home.

Joana never returned and, like the McCanns, her mother Leonor mounted a campaign to find her. Like them, she and her brother Joao became suspects.

The case, which ended with the pair being sentenced to 21 years, made Portuguese legal history - it was the first murder trial where a body was never found.

Police officers are due to go on trial later this year for allegedly beating and torturing Leonor to make her confess.

Joana's relatives told Sky News Online the pair are innocent and believe whoever took the girl is also behind Madeleine's disappearance, seven miles away in Praia da Luz.

The family, who do not want to be named, said: "This sort of thing doesn't happen in Portugal - child abductions are very rare.

"Whoever took Joana took Madeleine too, the distance is too small. And the police ignored everything we told them, they just wanted to solve the case quickly.

"They didn't look at any of the things we told them about."

They said the most crucial bit of evidence was a white and brown camper van, parked near Joana's home in the days before she was abducted.

The vehicle, with German number plates, disappeared around the time she vanished.

They added: "There was a man living in there, but he hardly left the van. A week later the van was found abandoned in farmland in Praia da Luz. We told the police to investigate it, but they didn't listen to us."

She said the man had short, curly brown hair and was about 40 years old.

A suspect in the Madeleine case, spotted acting suspiciously near the apartment where she vanished on May 3 last year, was described as between 35 and 40, with long, straggly hair.

Criminologist and child protection expert Mark Williams-Thomas believes there are far too many similarities between the two cases for it not to be a strong line of police inquiry.

He says that because of the huge doubts over the Cipriano convictions, whoever abducted Joana is more than likely to be behind Madeleine's disappearance.

Like Madeleine's case, the police investigation got off to a bad start, with officers failing to seal off the house where she was last seen.

Leonor alleges police beat her to make her confess. A photograph of her heavily-bruised face was published in Portuguese newspapers.

Goncalo Amaral, a senior detective who was sacked from the Madeleine case, is one of the five officers charged in connection with extracting the confession.

The indictment reportedly alleges that they kicked her, hit her with a cardboard tube, put a plastic bag over her head, and made her kneel on glass ashtrays.

Amaral faces charges of negligence and perjury, another officer is accused of fabricating a document, and the three others are charged with torture.


It could well be coincidence, but CB was living at the "farmhouse" in PDL during 2004 and had many different vehicles stored there over the years. Could this be the same area where this other campervan was found in 2004?

According to residents, Brueckner littered the land with old vehicles which he bought and sold for a living, which may explain how he acquired the distinctive camper van and Jaguar which are now at the centre of the police investigation.

Inside the farmhouse where new Madeleine McCann prime suspect lived - Culture - ReadSector

Not too sure how much the woman's description matches CB as she describes the man as being about 40. It's hard to know how close a look she actually got of him though. Attached is a pic of his mugshot in 2006 when he'd have been 29/30, he does look older than that to me.

I read through some other forums where this sighting was discussed and they were also talking about another out-of-place vehicle being spotted in the area around the time. It is described as being a black limousine-style car. This isn't mentioned in the Sky article though so it must be from a different news source. Without the original article, it's hard to know whether this was a bona-fide limo or perhaps a car that just looked a bit like one. I just wonder whether CB's Jag might be confused for a limo, it's very long and does have that look about it. Pics attached.

Could all well be completely unrelated but given the similarities and proximity between the two cases, it's not unreasonable to think the same culprit might be involved.
 

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