Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #26

Discussion in 'Madeleine McCann' started by Taskforce88, Jun 3, 2020.

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  1. Zuleika

    Zuleika Well-Known Member

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    It might be an amazing coincidence that's making it look like CB could be involved but the uncle said he had cut the girl's body into pieces before disposing of it by throwing it into a nearby pigsty.
    Discounting such a detailed confession just because the current German suspect could have been around in a camper van ? Not the way I see it ...sorry .
     


  2. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

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    Was the uncle beaten and tortured into the confession like they did to his sister though?
     
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  3. worldwatcher

    worldwatcher Well-Known Member

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    Sure was!

    @Zuleika :
    "Goncalo Amaral, 49, who was thrown off the Madeleine inquiry, was given an 18-month suspended jail sentence by a court in Portugal.

    Amaral was found guilty of falsifying evidence to help cover up for three of his officers who were accused of torture."

    Madeleine chief detective is convicted of falsifying evidence in separate missing child case | Daily Mail Online
     
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  4. SuperdadV8

    SuperdadV8 Well-Known Member

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    White/yellow or white/brown, who can say for sure....;)

    vanmaddie.jpg

    Obviously the JC case and the MM case share some striking similarities. It could explain GA's strange behavior. Maybe he is afraid of being the one, that botched up at least two missing children cases.

    820aad4d-c452-41dd-ae41-a4bdd4ec28d2_w1380_r1.7016029593094943_fpx53.99_fpy49.94-1.jpg

    I still wonder, who could be number three....
     
  5. misty48

    misty48 Well-Known Member

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    Sep 12 2005 DN

    On the day that completes a year about the disappearance of joanana Cipriano, eight years old, from the village of Figueira, in the municipality of Portimao - where she lived with her mother, stepfather and two brothers also minors - remains a mystery about what, in fact, has happened to the child. Abduction, sale or murder? The answer is a mystery.

    The last track that will have been advanced two months ago to family members of joana, by an individual in Lagos, supposedly would indicate that the girl "was carried in a large car which was seen on the street where she lived" and in which "were seen, once in a while, the Germans". A situation that is already "the knowledge of an inspector of the Judicial Police (PJ) of Faro.

    Curiously, this agent has--if proved elusive to be approached about the "case joana" by long-standing friends and journalists, limiting themselves to say that, as is natural, can not speak on the matter. This happens at a time when several people insist there, in the village of Figueira, "everyone speechless, who not one speaks for fear".
    --------
    I have copied this Diário de Notícias report from another forum as I can't get access to the original. Whilst there is no firm evidence regarding what happened to Joana, the comment about the people of Figueira living in fear has echoes of the folk in Foral living in fear of CB & various others.
    Also of interest is that the priest at the local church, very close to where Joana was last seen, was away on holiday in Germany at the time. I've never seen a record of the locum priest having been interviewed by PJ.
     
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  6. worldwatcher

    worldwatcher Well-Known Member

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    The original link:
    'Disturbing Similarities' With Madeleine
     
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  7. Dlk79

    Dlk79 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not discounting his confession because of CB, I'm discounting it because he himself retracted it. Both he and the girls mother were tortured and threatened by PJ into making their confessions, the torture aspect was proven in court when GA and his colleagues were found guilty of carrying it out and covering it up. You see it whichever way suits you but there was no real evidence other than these confessions which they both later said were made under duress. Maybe they did do it but that's far from a certainty, especially when you consider all the other very odd things that happened in this investigation. Including why the uncle took police to several different burial sites following his 'confession' before coming up with the pig pen story. A convenient one for the police since it meant they didn't need to find any body....

    João Cipriano diz que está inocente
     

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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
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  8. Zuleika

    Zuleika Well-Known Member

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    Dlk, according to some the PJ are a corrupt organisation who resort to torture , when they can't solve a case?
    Yes I've seen Joana's mother's claim and the photos but ask yourself why would you beat someone up when the evidence would be revealed ?
    If you want to rough someone up you don't do it like that .Many an ex battered wife and I'm one , will tell you men hit you where it's not going to show . The police could have done much worse to her to gain a confession .
    However I don't have a problem with what you believe .
     
  9. Dlk79

    Dlk79 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to pass sweeping generalisations about the PJ, I'm only talking about this specific case. And in this case, it was ruled in court that the PJ's account that Leonor threw her down the steps was false and that she was in fact beaten by PJ officers and that GA helped cover it up. That's not my opinion, that's what the court records show.

    Goncalo Amaral receives a one and a half year suspended sentence Jornal de Noticias

    22 May 2009 16h41m
    Translation by Nigel Moore

    Goncalo Amaral was sentenced to a year and a half in prison, suspended, for misrepresentation of evidence in the case of aggressions against Leonor Cipriano.

    The ruling, read this afternoon, also ordered the acquittal of Goncalo Amaral on the crime of omission of denunciation.

    All defendants who were accused of the crime of torture - Paulo Pereira Cristovao, Leonel Marques and Paulo Marques Bom - were acquitted.

    The inspector Antonio Cardoso, accused of the crime of forgery of a document, was sentenced to two years and three months, also a suspended penalty.

    The ruling in the case of alleged attacks on Leonor Cipriano was read this afternoon in the Court of Faro.

    It was taken as proven that Leonor Cipriano was beaten by elements of the Judicial police who could not be identified, and she didn't fall on the stairs, as was suggested. However, the court failed to ascertain the perpetrators of the aggressions.

    The judges pointed out the importance of Teresa Magalhaes' deposition, from the Institute of Forensic medicine, who clarified the origin of Leonor Cipriano's lesions. On the negative side, they highlighted the lack of credibility of the victim's testimony due to the constant change of versions that prevented them ascertaining who was responsible for the aggressions.
     
  10. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

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    You are right, it is stupid for officers to beat up a suspect when the evidence can be revealed. Apparently, those officers were very stupid and shortsighted because the evidence did catch up with them. They were found guilty.

    And you are right when you say there are places they could have beaten her that wouldn't have shown up so obviously. But they didn't worry about that and they paid the price legally.

    I think it has been proven that those were false confessions , in my opinion and in the opinion of the court.
     
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  11. onemoremiletogo

    onemoremiletogo Active Member

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    And all these disturbing details were reported in 2008..."far from" when CB was identified as suspect.

    Also in 2013,
    The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!

    The beating and conviction of Leonor Cipriano

    5) Have you forgotten the black Limousine cruising around the streets of Figueira? A limousine that people commented on?

    6) And have you forgotten the little camper van that was there, in Figueira, for several days? That suddenly vanished when Joana vanished. I think it was described as green and brown(?) at the time. That was found abandoned at PdL. just 7 miles away.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
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  12. Sharkbite

    Sharkbite Well-Known Member

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    Several different descriptions of the vehicle spotted in Figueira. Maybe the "dirty mustard yellow, old, long VW estate" that CB's ex said he was using in 2005 is a possibility?
     
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  13. Lilly b

    Lilly b Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if this has any more info

    https://www.maryhallbergmedia.com/post/2019/08/05/the-disappearance-of-joana-cipriano
     
  14. Dlk79

    Dlk79 Well-Known Member

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    It's unclear when CB first gained access to the Westfalia but the Berkshire gf he was with in 2004 claims not to remember it. And we also don't know who owned the vehicle before him but it's possible to be another German associate. CB told the German trio he took to Spain that the vehicle belonged to a friend of his. The German community in the Algarve were said to be closely knit. Of course, the vehicle spotted in Figueira may not be the WF at all, but a similar vehicle. The interesting thing to me is the German plates. We know CB was travelling back and forth between Germany and Portugal and buying and selling cars, the area around his farmhouse was said to be littered with them. Even if it wasn't him in the vehicle, is it possible he knew them?

    The JC case was a very strange one indeed. After the mother and uncle retracted their murder confessions, both later sought to blame the other for Joana's disappearance. First, the uncle claimed that Leonor had sold her daughter to traffickers and that he believed Joana was still alive. Later, Leonor claimed that there was indeed a plot to sell her daughter but that it was her brother's idea. She said as part of the plot she sent Joana to the shop and that everything 'was all set' for her daughter to be taken abroad. But claims that when she (Leonor) returned, her brother said the exchange went wrong, the people didn't have the money and that he ended up killing Joana, who would have told all, and then buried her body in the mountains.

    All very odd. But if there is any truth in a simulated abduction, to which they were complicit, in order to hand Joana to people traffickers, it could explain why police were convinced that they were hiding something. And if there is some "German" link to this trafficking plot, might they have also been involved in the MM case?

    There's a few details in the MM case that suggest she may have been taken as part of some larger operation, one where CB was perhaps at the very bottom of this chain. Might it be conceivable that the plot was then abandoned when the media exploded, with MM's face being plastered over the world and CB was forced to "destroy the evidence", maybe under instruction from those higher up in the chain?

    With regards CB, I've tended to prefer the "opportunist" theory over a "planned" operation, but a few things lately have point to the latter. HCW saying to Jon Clarke that he would not be at all surprised if certain high-level people were involved as part of a paedophile ring for example. Then we have RH's deathbed confession that also pointed to an abduction to order plot. Plus CB's "best friend" MT who said CB often spoke about selling children and being convinced that's what he did with MM. Plus it's never been established where he got the money to buy the expensive winnebago that MT claims CB turned up at Orgiva in just 1 month after MM disappeared. He didn't have it a couple of months earlier when MT saw him in PDL where CB was broke and living out of his campervan. And as much as I view the story with scepticism, the story about the "horrible job" that would "change his life" is perhaps the biggest indicator that CB was the bottom of some chain.

    Maddie suspect told of 'horrible job to do in Praia' night before toddler vanished
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2021
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  15. Zuleika

    Zuleika Well-Known Member

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    Yes it could add up as you've described but HCW' claim (that CB killed Madeleine )with concrete evidence means he's not at the bottom of a chain ? Unless HCW is bluffing to get word to CB that he's going to be charged eventually in the hope he'll split on whoever hired him .
     
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  16. Anxala

    Anxala Well-Known Member

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    Christ. That poor little child. How horrifyingly grim that a quick death would seem like the best than can be hoped for her here.

    Personally, I wouldn't trust a word that comes out of either of their ugly evil mouths.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2021
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  17. Lilly b

    Lilly b Well-Known Member

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    I wonder why the PJ didn't make more effort to find joana's body if they think she is dead?
     
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  18. SuperdadV8

    SuperdadV8 Well-Known Member

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    AFAIK there had been some theories including freezers and a pig sty.

    Both didn't turn out as a crucial lead, but for both things there are links to CB. Fridges at Neuwegersleben and the comment to Lenta J..

    Coincidence?
     
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  19. Lilly b

    Lilly b Well-Known Member

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    Just waste of space GA, putting same theories forward to MM case, and again, in fact I won't even bother saying anything else, think everyone knows my opinion of GA
     
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  20. Dlk79

    Dlk79 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure I follow. Having concrete evidence that CB killed MM does not preclude it being under instruction. From the BKA's commentary, I'm not sure they really know how the whole thing unfolded, only that they seem confident that it was CB who carried out the "act".

    In one of the earliest BKA statements, they touted the possibility that CB may have broken into 5A to rob the place initially before deciding to take MM. When asked if he thought CB acted alone, HCW said "as far as we know". When he was asked that question again a month later, he said he couldn't comment. Now, in the latest statements from HCW, he says he would not be surprised if MM's disappearance was part of some paedophile ring plot. It could all be bluff and avoidance, but maybe the aspects of the crime they know about are limited to certain things.

    I'm just saying, if there were some kind of ring involved, I can imagine a scenario whereby CB is the "lackey", working for people higher up who are the money men. And I could feasibly imagine the plot being abandonded due to the heat of the investigation and the media circus, such that orders flowed down for the girl to be "got rid of" quickly. They could even have wanted photographic proof from CB that the deed had been done. A photo that BKA somehow later got hold of, maybe through an old email account, another person in the ring, a hard drive etc. Just a thought.
     
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