Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect #30

[C.greek]

sounds a bit flimsy to me.

I guess if it seems okay for a prosecutor, it might as well sound flimsy to you

jokes aside, why does it sound flimsy to you?

 

[G-Unit]

Presumption of innocence applies only in Court. The prosecutor does not presume innocence - indeed the opposite.

It applies to the investgation stage too;

However, the principle of presumption of innocence does not prevent the authorities from informing the public about criminal investigations in progress, but it requires that they do so with all the discretion and circumspection necessary if the presumption of innocence is to be respected

https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/guide_art_6_criminal_eng.pdf

 

[Betty_Boop88]

343. However, the presumption of innocence does not normally apply in the absence of a criminal charge against an individual, such as, for instance, concerning the application of measures against an applicant preceding the initiation of a criminal charge against him or her.

 

[mrjitty]

Presumption of innocence means the defendant does not have to prove his innocence - i.e, the prosecution must prove guilt. It places burden on the state.

But the prosecutor does not "presume innocence" - the prosecutor (i.e. the state) says they believe the accused to be guilty

 

[G-Unit]

Prosecutors must mind their language;

371. Article 6 § 2 prohibits statements by public officials about pending criminal investigations which encourage the public to believe the suspect guilty and prejudge the assessment of the facts by the competent judicial authority

https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/guide_art_6_criminal_eng.pdf

 

[mrjitty]

It applies to the investgation stage too;

However, the principle of presumption of innocence does not prevent the authorities from informing the public about criminal investigations in progress, but it requires that they do so with all the discretion and circumspection necessary if the presumption of innocence is to be respected

https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/guide_art_6_criminal_eng.pdf

I agree that as a general constitutional principle, charges are the method by which the state accuses someone of a crime. By laying charges, the state is saying, we believe this person did the crime, and we have evidence to prove it beyond reasonable doubt.

I also agree that in general, the state may not accuse people of being guilty of crimes without laying charges. That prevents the state from smearing people with crimes, despite lacking the evidence. It is problematic to me that HCW has claimed in the media that CB is definitely guilty ... however

... such statements were not prejudicial

HCW has commenced the judicial process, and had the Court's permission to go public (though we don't know exactly what the Court has allowed).

Overall I agree it is very strange for the prosecutor to go beyond mere discussion of proceedings and investigations, to actually claiming CB definitely did the murder, while on the other hand, not charging it.

One can only assume the Court has very good reason to allow this strange state of affairs.

 

[mrjitty]

Prosecutors must mind their language;

371. Article 6 § 2 prohibits statements by public officials about pending criminal investigations which encourage the public to believe the suspect guilty and prejudge the assessment of the facts by the competent judicial authority

https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/guide_art_6_criminal_eng.pdf

Yes - I have made this argument all along - but the Court has allowed it, for reasons we are not privy to.

 

[Tekno]

Scotland Yard's Madeleine McCann investigation extended for another year

The three-year-old's parents have never given up hope that she will one day be found alive.

metro.co.uk

The British investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is being continued for another year by the Metropolitan Police.
Reports had suggested that Operation Grange would be wound down this autumn with the end of its funding as the circumstances of the three-year-old’s disappearance 15 years ago remain unsolved.
Scotland Yard has been assisting the Portuguese authorities investigating how she vanished from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz.
The British detectives were set to wind down their 11-year involvement in the case, according to reports in March 2022.
However, Scotland Yard has now confirmed in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOI) request that the case has received funding to continue until March 2023.
Christian Brueckner, who is currently in a German prison for a number of sex and drug offences, was named by prosecutors in the country as a chief suspect in June 2020.
A subsequent request for the current 12 months has now been granted, according to the reply provided by the Met Police.
The response stated: ‘I have contacted the Operation Grange Team and in response to your question regarding Operation Grange being closed, they have advised that an application for further funding was submitted and authorised by the Home Office earlier this year.
‘This funding runs until March 2023. Regular reviews between the MPS and the Home Office continue to take place throughout the year. Operation Grange remains open at this present time.’...........

Interesting that no MSM have followed up on the Metro article yet. Could it be because they all ‘revealed’, after a Sun ‘exclusive’, that funding would be pulled earlier this year?

 

[RichardKimble]

Interesting that no MSM have followed up on the Metro article yet. Could it be because they all ‘revealed’, after a Sun ‘exclusive’, that funding would be pulled earlier this year?

More interested in the tory infighting.

 

[G-Unit]

Yes - I have made this argument all along - but the Court has allowed it, for reasons we are not privy to.

What court? Do they have to have the permission of a judge every time HWC speaks?

 

[SuperdadV8]

Interesting that no MSM have followed up on the Metro article yet. Could it be because they all ‘revealed’, after a Sun ‘exclusive’, that funding would be pulled earlier this year?

IMO it's most likely, that the joint forces made a descision not to talk to the media anymore, according to the upcoming actions.

If they made the decision to charge, the investigations are finished and there isn't a need to use the media for possible further info. The statment would be, that there will be no comment on the ongoing investigations by now.

Also HCW just reported about the appeal to Italy, to allow charges against CB. It's also possible, that the MM investigations are finished as well, but the last piece of the jigsaw for the charge in the MM case is a confirmed modus operandi for CB's crimes. Therefor, they may need the upcoming rape charges resulting into a sentence. This may take months, if not years according to possible appeals of the sentenced person. But it also indicates what evidence they may have, and don't have.

Just remember CB's letters to some people asking, if there is a picture that shows a dead MM and him together. So it seems very likely, that this kind of footage don't exist. But it also indicates, that other kinds of footage could be existing, that doesn't show a recognizable (!) perp itself and the victim. But maybe the victim, an unrecognizable perp or even a particular modus operandi.

So there might be evidence in some form of footage, some vile darkweb or skype chats talking about some particular modus operandi, some boozy confessions and a former local suspect, with a rap sheet that includes this particular modus operandi at the particular time. That is no clue anymore, but a very strong verdict in every (!) court all over the world.

Prosecutors are aware, that using the media sometimes leads to further clues. Once convinced that no futher clues are in sight or needed, no need to use the media anymore.

JMO...

 

[enquirer6]

Yes - I have made this argument all along - but the Court has allowed it, for reasons we are not privy to.

At least, in Germany, there is no risk of pre-trial publicity prejudicing the outcome of any trial, because trials are both heard and decided by judges, I'm sure, deemed sufficiently rigorous and impartial not to allow their judgements to be influenced by pre-trial publicity. Exactly the same is true in England where, for example, someone convicted in a Magistrate's court appeals to the Court of Appeal, or where a Crown Court Appeal judge presides. In those instances, the rules of sub judice don't apply and full reporting rights are allowed, so long as the reporting is fair, complete and factual.

There is the further point that Brueckner, irrespective of his guilt or innocence of crimes against Madeleine, simply has no reputation to defend, currently serving a prison sentence for a brutal rape and with a string of other offences against children.

 

[mrjitty]

At least, in Germany, there is no risk of pre-trial publicity prejudicing the outcome of any trial, because trials are both heard and decided by judges, I'm sure, deemed sufficiently rigorous and impartial not to allow their judgements to be influenced by pre-trial publicity. Exactly the same is true in England where, for example, someone convicted in a Magistrate's court appeals to the Court of Appeal, or where a Crown Court Appeal judge presides. In those instances, the rules of sub judice don't apply and full reporting rights are allowed, so long as the reporting is fair, complete and factual.

There is the further point that Brueckner, irrespective of his guilt or innocence of crimes against Madeleine, simply has no reputation to defend, currently serving a prison sentence for a brutal rape and with a string of other offences against children.

Yes - though even in Germany, other rationales still apply. You don't want prosecutors to be able to 'convict' people in the court of public opinion, despite having a weak case.

You see this in England, where people arrested are typically not even named until charged, because of the risk that mere arrest might imply guilt. The media similarly do not identify the suspect if the police do not name them, because of libel risk. This reverses on charging, when the default position is the defendant will be named - though then of course sub judice applies.

In any event, the german court is sufficiently satisfied that the evidence and public interest warrants statements that impugn CB beyond merely being a suspect.

 

[Hygge]

Suspect examined for physical features

8 July 2022, 13:56 UhrRead time: 1 min

Braunschweig (dpa) - In the investigation against the suspect also in the Maddie case, another step has been completed. Hans Christian Wolters of the public prosecutor's office in Braunschweig told the Deutsche Presse-Agentur on Friday that the suspect had been subjected to an identification procedure. During such a measure, photos are essentially taken and possible special features such as scars, tattoos or birthmarks are recorded, explained the press spokesman of the prosecuting authority.

A few weeks ago, the newspaper "Bild" had reported that the 45-year-old had agreed to a corresponding examination. The photos and information obtained are to be compared, among other things, with descriptions of the perpetrators by witnesses, as public prosecutor Wolters said. The German is not only in the focus in the case of the British girl Madeleine McCann, who disappeared in Portugal in 2007. Christian B. is also being investigated for other sexual offences, including two cases of abuse and three allegations of rape.

The 45-year-old is currently serving a sentence of several years in Oldenburg for the rape of a US-American woman in 2005 in Praia da Luz, Portugal, where about one and a half years later the then three-year-old Maddie disappeared from an apartment complex. With regard to the alleged sexual offences, a period of admission is currently still running, during which the defence lawyer can comment on the accusations, as prosecutor Wolters said. After that, follow-up investigations may follow before a decision on charges can be made.

Verdächtigter auf körperliche Merkmale untersucht

In den Ermittlungen gegen den auch im Fall Maddie Verdächtigten ist ein weiterer Schritt abgeschlossen. Bei dem Beschuldigten sei eine erkennungsdienstliche...

www.sueddeutsche.de

The suspect's defence lawyer, Friedrich Fülscher, told dpa that he had not yet received the results of the identification service. Therefore, he could not comment on the investigative measure. Overall, there is still no statement from the defence on the various accusations against Christian B..

(it is from today, German press agency and also 3 rapes are mentioned)

© dpa-infocom, dpa:220708-99-955122/3

 

[SuperdadV8]

Suspect examined for physical features

8 July 2022, 13:56 UhrRead time: 1 min

Braunschweig (dpa) - In the investigation against the suspect also in the Maddie case, another step has been completed. Hans Christian Wolters of the public prosecutor's office in Braunschweig told the Deutsche Presse-Agentur on Friday that the suspect had been subjected to an identification procedure. During such a measure, photos are essentially taken and possible special features such as scars, tattoos or birthmarks are recorded, explained the press spokesman of the prosecuting authority.

A few weeks ago, the newspaper "Bild" had reported that the 45-year-old had agreed to a corresponding examination. The photos and information obtained are to be compared, among other things, with descriptions of the perpetrators by witnesses, as public prosecutor Wolters said. The German is not only in the focus in the case of the British girl Madeleine McCann, who disappeared in Portugal in 2007. Christian B. is also being investigated for other sexual offences, including two cases of abuse and three allegations of rape.

The 45-year-old is currently serving a sentence of several years in Oldenburg for the rape of a US-American woman in 2005 in Praia da Luz, Portugal, where about one and a half years later the then three-year-old Maddie disappeared from an apartment complex. With regard to the alleged sexual offences, a period of admission is currently still running, during which the defence lawyer can comment on the accusations, as prosecutor Wolters said. After that, follow-up investigations may follow before a decision on charges can be made.

Verdächtigter auf körperliche Merkmale untersucht

In den Ermittlungen gegen den auch im Fall Maddie Verdächtigten ist ein weiterer Schritt abgeschlossen. Bei dem Beschuldigten sei eine erkennungsdienstliche...

www.sueddeutsche.de

The suspect's defence lawyer, Friedrich Fülscher, told dpa that he had not yet received the results of the identification service. Therefore, he could not comment on the investigative measure. Overall, there is still no statement from the defence on the various accusations against Christian B..

(it is from today, German press agency and also 3 rapes are mentioned)

© dpa-infocom, dpa:220708-99-955122/3

Still a few weeks to go, but the engine is running...

I'm convinced, that the physical examination could lead to some clues in other cases.

 

[mrjitty]

Interesting - this is a much more straight down the line press drop, via DPA that then goes to news platforms.

Maybe the media circus is over.

 

[Anxala]

Interesting - this is a much more straight down the line press drop, via DPA that then goes to news platforms.

Maybe the media circus is over.

It's something concrete, at least, evidence of ongoing activity as far as the other charges are concerned.

Re the media circus, as ever, time will tell.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

"A few weeks ago, the newspaper "Bild" had reported that the 45-year-old had agreed to a corresponding examination".
Wouldn't be expected CB to be more concerned, nervous? Even "refusing" the examination?!

 

[C.greek]

"A few weeks ago, the newspaper "Bild" had reported that the 45-year-old had agreed to a corresponding examination".
Wouldn't be expected CB to be more concerned, nervous? Even "refusing" the examination?!

Why would he? The victim never specified that this was a scar, birth mark, or tattoo that she saw. It won't add anything if he doesn't have one nor would the case against him be mute.

Eta. He is a dangerous individual who thinks he can never be caught. Why would his stance change? He enjoys his fame.

 

[RichardKimble]

It's something concrete, at least, evidence of ongoing activity as far as the other charges are concerned.

Re the media circus, as ever, time will tell.

The media this summer have Wimbledon, who's who in the royal box, who's wearing what, will the bad boy of tennis win,
PM's resignation, who'll replace him .
Love island , etc,etc
Scars or not on a German is the least interesting imo .