Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #35

[RichardKimble]

I think there is a sea change in attitude signified by making CB an arguido. Nor do I think it was as a result of evidence available in the public domain. I think it perfectly possible they may have had sight of the evidence which caused the Germans to make CB their prime suspect in the murder of a child.

Yet SY who are part of the investigation and would be party to that evidence still regard it as a missing persons investigation?

 

[mrjitty]

Why though wouldn't a letter by the suspect be used against him at trial? Isn't that considered evidence? (Not that this letter says anything...)

There are a number of evidential hoops to jump through ... Does the letter really exist? Can prosecutors get hold of it? Can it be proved to be genuine?

 

[mrjitty]

Do you have an example of a suspect who provided a cast iron alibi for a crime which was later used against them in court? My understanding of the term “cast iron” is that it is indisputable and proof positive of innocence of involvement of the crime the suspect stands accused of.

You are moving the goal posts.

The prosecutor has claimed they have concrete evidence CB did the murder. But that could range from a confession to digital evidence as has been endlessly speculated here. So how shall the defence give an alibi against murder on an unknown day, against unknown accusations/evidence?

 

[mrjitty]

CB has been questioned regarding other cases none of which is as a result of MM case. The tally is quite extraordinary covering many years and many jurisdictions.
One really wonders why so many law enforcement officers have homed in on CB on so many cases with a wide variety of victims.

Other cases CB has been linked to​

CB has also been linked to other disappearances of children, including a boy, six, in Portugal in 2000, a five-year-old girl in Germany in 2015 and a number of others.

In 2020, he was being investigated over the rape and murder of Tristan Brübach, a 15-year-old boy from Germany.

Belgian authorities have also linked him to the murder of teenager Carola Titze, 16. She went missing while on holiday in De Haan, Belgium on July 5, 1996 and her body was discovered among sand dunes severely mutilated on July 11.

Other cases believed to be linked to CB include that of Inga Gehrike who went missing from Saxony-Anhalt in Germany on May 2, 2015, René Hasee, six, who vanished while on a family holiday in Aljezur, Portugal on June 21, 1996 and Jair Soares who disappeared in August 1995.

Peggy Knobloch’s case has also been linked to CB after she went missing in May 2001.

All we know about Madeleine McCann suspect Brueckner and the accusations against him

German prisoner Christian Brueckner has been identified as a suspect in Madeleine’s case

www.independent.co.uk

There is no reasonable basis to claim police expected to find 2-3 bodies in the lake unless police told the journalist that, based on evidence in the investigation.

Certainly there is no reason to think Inga Gehricke and others would be found there. As has been discussed before, there is no actual evidence linking CB to those cases. IIRC police do not believe CB is involved in them.

 

[mrjitty]

What conditions were given to MWT that allowed him access to the letter?

We can say he wasn’t allowed to publish any of it because he hasn’t. Perhaps other conditions prevent him from ever releasing the letter.

The relationship between LE, legal teams and the media is very murky. IMO, they are all sharing information in all directions to gain an advantage, e.g. HCW is giving exclusive info to JC, who in return is publishing it in favourable terms to support the investigation, and he is also providing information to the BKA to get preferential treatment on new developments down the track.

Nothing is as it seems; strategy and spin between the above parties are constantly at play.

Does the 'letter' even exist?

It may just be a theatrical/journalistic device to represent various communications with FF. Not saying that is the case but my opinion is FF used MWT to float a version, entirely as a way to get it out there, without doing an interview with prosecutors. That is why german sources complained about it.

 

[RichardKimble]

There is no reasonable basis to claim police expected to find 2-3 bodies in the lake unless police told the journalist that, based on evidence in the investigation.

Certainly there is no reason to think Inga Gehricke and others would be found there. As has been discussed before, there is no actual evidence linking CB to those cases.

In regards the Inga case, there is a thread on here CB doesn't figure as a prime suspect on there.

 

[RichardKimble]

You are moving the goal posts.

The prosecutor has claimed they have concrete evidence CB did the murder. But that could range from a confession to digital evidence as has been endlessly speculated here. So how shall the defence give an alibi against murder on an unknown day, against unknown accusations/evidence?

Indeed, it's only in the court of public opinion that CB has been served papers, Wolters has not said where when and how the girl was killed so which part is an alibi needed for.5a has never been mentioned by Wolters either.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Does the 'letter' even exist?

It may just be a theatrical/journalistic device to represent various communications with FF. Not saying that is the case but my opinion is FF used MWT to float a version, entirely as a way to get it out there, without doing an interview with prosecutors. That is why german sources complained about it.

I don’t recall seeing an image of it.

It seems very reasonable to me that MWT got the scoop based on how me might portray things in his documentary - from memory, it was quite pro CB and his case, and that is quite telling.

 

[C.greek]

Does the 'letter' even exist?

It may just be a theatrical/journalistic device to represent various communications with FF. Not saying that is the case but my opinion is FF used MWT to float a version, entirely as a way to get it out there, without doing an interview with prosecutors. That is why german sources complained about it.

Apologies I will quote from dailystar (!) But it seems the letter was featured in the documentary

"Mark added: “In that last letter that we have, that we feature in the documentary, he tells us his alibi."

Madeleine McCann suspect 'confessed new crimes but not about her', sleuth claims

EXCLUSIVE: TV investigator Mark Williams-Thomas says Madeleine McCann suspect confessed to a string of fresh crimes, but insists he had nothing to do with the youngster's disappearance

www.dailystar.co.uk

 

[Denis R Tandib]

In regards the Inga case, there is a thread on here CB doesn't figure as a prime suspect on there.

If memory serves me correctly, CB has been ruled out as a suspect in that case - I think Mr V (Child Search) posted an article confirming this.

The other cold cases that CB has been linked to are just reporters trying to dig up stories by getting the most vague responses from local detectives in long running cases - most of them never had any credible link to CB IMO.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Apologies I will quote from dailystar (!) But it seems the letter was featured in the documentary

"Mark added: “In that last letter that we have, that we feature in the documentary, he tells us his alibi."

Madeleine McCann suspect 'confessed new crimes but not about her', sleuth claims

EXCLUSIVE: TV investigator Mark Williams-Thomas says Madeleine McCann suspect confessed to a string of fresh crimes, but insists he had nothing to do with the youngster's disappearance

www.dailystar.co.uk

I think @Consider Dudley posted the doco up thread.

ETA, it’s not the doco, it’s an interview with MWT on a UK TV show. He mentions the letter but there are no images of it.

Playing the PR game, it is quite possible that FF used MWT to sew doubt about the prosecutors case.

 

[mrjitty]

True. But CB has made a number of pre-trial statements through his letters to the press (and other random people) about the case, which could still be used in court against him, so it kind of undercuts that argument.

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I agree on this - most likely he is just stupid. Though there might still be evidential problems in actually obtaining these letters, and proving CB actually wrote them.

Irrelevant. It's not the US. The German prosecutors aren't allowed to do this. In fact, they are obliged to investigate anything that might exonerate the suspect if he volunteers that information. It doesn’t even need to be during an interview, he only needs to make a request for them to look into it.

For all we know, he has effectively done this. Either directly via FF, or via the various media programmes. Again his problem is, he doesn't know what he needs an alibi for (unless he is the killer).

I also disagree that the prosecutor cannot do this. By being vague and selection of words, HCW has implied he might have various types of concrete evidence that prove CB is the killer "if you knew what we knew" - this is likely intentional misrepresentation/misdirection IMO ... to see if they can't bluff him into damaging admissions.

True. But in your experience, what percentage of the time are those "extremely good reasons" because the suspect is in fact, guilty?

Well quite, but the point is the law in both the UK and Germany create specific timing and process for Alibi evidence. The goal is not to win against the prosecutor in the court of public opinion, but to ensure valid, fair, probative evidence is obtained at trial.

This is why we need to be very careful about any analogies with our past experiences in the common law countries like UK and US. Since law reform in the UK, you can damage your alibi at trial if you do not disclose it early to investigators, who must in turn reveal the foundation

In the present case the german process tends to anticipate the interrogation as one of the final steps rather than an early step. I think especially what has to be considered tactically is that if the suspect's alibi turns on the testimony of a 3rd party, that 3rd party may already have been interviewed by the police, and the suspect might not have access to that person as no charges have been laid.

Alibi can depend on detail and not simply "I was with X at the time"

One thing we have to be careful about is falling into saying "well CB is a reprehensible person therefore procedural safeguards don't matter'. This is the road to propensity reasoning.

 

[Consider Dudley]

You are moving the goal posts.

The prosecutor has claimed they have concrete evidence CB did the murder. But that could range from a confession to digital evidence as has been endlessly speculated here. So how shall the defence give an alibi against murder on an unknown day, against unknown accusations/evidence?

No I’m not moving the goal posts. I entered this conversation by stating that CB could (for a start) provide a cast iron alibi that he was nowhere near Apartment 5a on the night of 3rd May 2007, something which he has in fact already attempted (and failed) to do.

 

[Consider Dudley]

I think @Consider Dudley posted the doco up thread.

ETA, it’s not the doco, it’s an interview with MWT on a UK TV show. He mentions the letter but there are no images of it.

Playing the PR game, it is quite possible that FF used MWT to sew doubt about the prosecutors case.

There are images of at least one page of it in one of the articles I linked to.

 

[mrjitty]

No I’m not moving the goal posts. I entered this conversation by stating that CB could (for a start) provide a cast iron alibi that he was nowhere near Apartment 5a on the night of 3rd May 2007, something which he has in fact already attempted (and failed) to do.

He doesn't need an alibi for that

The prosecutor says he did a murder on an unspecified date, and maybe not even in Portugal.

 

[Malleux]

There are a number of evidential hoops to jump through ... Does the letter really exist? Can prosecutors get hold of it? Can it be proved to be genuine?

In the doc, MWT says he and CB wrote several letters back and forth. The one where CB speaks about the 'alibi' is shown on MWT's laptop screen briefly near the end of the doc. It's been slightly blurred but from what you can see, it appears consistent with the style of CB's other letters written in pencil. MWT claims he's also handed all his evidence over to the German authorities, which I presume includes the letters.

One interesting thing is that in the channel 5 version, it is made out that CB wanted to give MWT a face to face interview in prison (which seemed brave) but that the authorities blocked it. In the longer version on paramount+ though, CB actually backs out of the interview himself at first. Then later in the program, CB changes his mind and says he will do it only for the authorities to then say no. I think CB already knew they would, which is why he suddenly "agreed" to it.

Personally, I don't think CB ever had any intention of sitting down face to face. It's one thing carefully writing down your "story" in your own time with nobody able to gauge your true reactions, altogether different when you are put on the spot. I noticed in CB's latest letter to this "pen pal" as he calls him, the recipient has obviously asked him whether CB would consider allowing a visit and CB says he would probably refuse that request because talking is too strenuous for him....

 

[Pixie Child]

I don’t think the alibi will be important. None of us could prove where we were 9-10pm on 3.5.07. (Maybe with a laptop from the time.) It would only be significant if he was questioned within a week of the crime.

The Defence won’t put CB on the stand to give evidence of his movements. They will put Lena on the stand to question her about his activities & demeanour in that time. She will be asked if there was a night she expected him and he didn’t come.

What will be more significant is what his mobile phone records show. Can they plot his movements that week? They have witness evidence of him stalking the apartment. Will the phone evidence support that?

The Prosecution may wish to focus on murder but they will also be conscious of setting out a narrative that is persuasive to the Judge, McCanns and the public.

 

[mrjitty]

In the doc, MWT says he and CB wrote several letters back and forth. The one where CB speaks about the 'alibi' is shown on MWT's laptop screen briefly near the end of the doc. It's been slightly blurred but from what you can see, it appears consistent with the style of CB's other letters written in pencil. MWT claims he's also handed all his evidence over to the German authorities, which I presume includes the letters.

One interesting thing is that in the channel 5 version, it is made out that CB wanted to give MWT a face to face interview in prison (which seemed brave) but that the authorities blocked it. In the longer version on paramount+ though, CB actually backs out of the interview himself at first. Then later in the program, CB changes his mind and says he will do it only for the authorities to then say no. I think CB already knew they would, which is why he suddenly "agreed" to it.

Personally, I don't think CB ever had any intention of sitting down face to face. It's one thing carefully writing down your "story" in your own time with nobody able to gauge your true reactions, altogether different when you are put on the spot. I noticed in CB's latest letter to this "pen pal" as he calls him, the recipient has obviously asked him whether CB would consider allowing a visit and CB says he would probably refuse that request because talking is too strenuous for him....

I agree. Giving a recorded interview, even a softball MWT interview, is potentially a very stupid thing to do - especially because it gives insight into demeanour and other intangibles.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

There are images of at least one page of it in one of the articles I linked to.

Yep, found it in the Daily Mail article. I’ll take a look at it and see what it says.

 

[Malleux]

Yep, found it in the Daily Mail article. I’ll take a look at it and see what it says.

If it's the pic of two letters I've seen next to one another, I don't think either of them are the ones written to MWT. One is in German, written I think to Nick Pisa and the one in English is to BS and IM.