Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #36

[Lyall0814]

Goodness! Did it really take them as long as six days? My opinion is that we live in a digital age of immediate wall to wall dissemination of information. The minute any sort of information is given - it goes round the world in seconds complete with accompanying journalistic copy.

The initial release of information via MS's podcast was in April 2019 don't forget. And therein is where the mischief making lies - not with investigators building an evidence based case against a suspect. My opinion

Did I say I thought the German investigators were mischief making? They've just done what they think needed to be done I'm sure. But they have - and probably still do - use tactics you just can't bring yourself to admit. And I wonder why. That's all I said earlier in the day. It's interesting to me. Why can't some of us admit the Germans from time to time behave just like police and prosecutors in other countries?

 

[Mex]

No media blitz? I presume in Germany they were still calling him Christian B (and maybe they still are) and not using his photo but in Britain his photo was on the front page of eight national papers. Eight!

CB will not be tried in Britain. If he is tried at all it will be in Germany under German law.

Given the amount of evidence gathering which has taken place over the last few years and is continuing now, I see a progression.
The BKA and prosecutors have been very busy. They got enough to lay charges in relation to five different cases. They probably investigated quite a few more than that to achieve that success rate for evidence in cold cases.

The bad guys in this are the criminals, not the guys trying to catch them in the spirit of justice and stop them from future offending. My opinion

 

[Mex]

Did I say I thought the German investigators were mischief making? They've just done what they think needed to be done I'm sure. But they have - and probably still do - use tactics you just can't bring yourself to admit. And I wonder why. That's all I said earlier in the day. It's interesting to me. Why can't some of us admit the Germans from time to time behave just like police and prosecutors in other countries?

You have misread my post. Quite clearly the mischief making to which I referred was spawned on a particular date on a particular podcast.

I don’t really have an opinion on what you say are German tactics regarding (I presume)the media. What would the point of that be when the German judicial system is structured in a way that doing so makes it an irrelevance? The German police and prosecutors will tailor their practices to their own system of justice and if you must make comparison with others, I would say they are second to none.

What I'm seeing with regard to the German police and prosecutors is the way in which their evidence gathering skills in five pending cases far outweighs that of the Portuguese who gave up on all of them.

I would like to see them being given the space to do likewise in the MM case with the evidence leading to charges and a trial.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

You have misread my post. Quite clearly the mischief making to which I referred was spawned on a particular date on a particular podcast.

I don’t really have an opinion on what you say are German tactics regarding (I presume)the media. What would the point of that be when the German judicial system is structured in a way that doing so makes it an irrelevance? The German police and prosecutors will tailor their practices to their own system of justice and if you must make comparison with others, I would say they are second to none.

What I'm seeing with regard to the German police and prosecutors is the way in which their evidence gathering skills in five pending cases far outweighs that of the Portuguese who gave up on all of them.

I would like to see them being given the space to do likewise in the MM case with the evidence leading to charges and a trial.

far outweighs that of the Portuguese who gave up on all of them.
This! Shameful and poor representation of police forces here in Portugal, specially in the touristy Algarve. And imagine other cases that didn't come up...and/or other poorly investigated and "forcibly concluded".

 

[Denis R Tandib]

If we don't find anything we'll let you know, but if we do we wont, is what?

A good example of pointless commentary.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Did I say I thought the German investigators were mischief making? They've just done what they think needed to be done I'm sure. But they have - and probably still do - use tactics you just can't bring yourself to admit. And I wonder why. That's all I said earlier in the day. It's interesting to me. Why can't some of us admit the Germans from time to time behave just like police and prosecutors in other countries?

I’m with you Lyall.

Obviously the Met is very skilled at dealing with the media on high-profile cases like this one. In fact, it has run an investigation on this very case for 12 years.

Therefore, it’s easy to make a comparison between the Met and the Braunschweig prosecutors office. The media commentary from OG, aside from occasional formal announcements has been pretty much non-existent. HCW, on the other hand has spoken to second rate media outlets (Even This forum doesn’t think the Sun’s reporting is credible) consistently for three years. In doing so, they have fuelled misreporting, incorrect links to other crimes and confusion amongst the public.

IMO, this shows the either the German prosecutors have an agenda to promote a message about their suspect or they are naive on media strategy.

This comparison makes the point so clear, it should be beyond argument. But, no doubt, someone will find one word or minor point in what’s written above to find one.

 

[Okapi]

I see both pov here, regarding the comparison between the OG and the German investigation.

Something JG said during OG’s investigation that struck me:

“It is important the Met don't share too much to put words in people's mouths because the evidence has to be sufficiently independent in order to be put before a court."

Madeleine McCann: German suspect profiled by former NI cop Gamble ... 'an end could be in sight' for heartbroken parents Gerry and Kate

And HCW’s stance:

‘Mr Wolters added: “The sooner we get evidence, the better for us to avoid the risk of him ever being released.

"If we find nothing new against him it could be that in seven years at the latest he may be released and leaves Germany for a country that doesn’t extradite."

The prosecutor said investigators are attempting to build the strongest case possible before trying to interrogate their chief suspect.’

Maddie suspect who raped pensioner now 'in therapy to cope with media scrutiny'

 

[RichardKimble]

Back in June 2020...going in circles here. It seems BKA is really a kamikaze team. LOL

It's something to chew over , the case has been going in fits and starts with bursts of energy since OG went into full mode in 2013.First the revelation moment Tannerman was almost certainly not an abductor, the digs and plethora of interviewees in 2014 including arguidos.This led no where.2017 the ten year anniversary of the disappearance and subsequent appeals in Europe.
2020 we're told a prime suspect has emerged after OG were given CBs name after the 2017 appeal.Investigation continue although we're told you'd think him guilty if you knew what we knew and 100% convinced CB killed the girl ,yet not a charge in sight with the it being said it'll be some time yet.
It seems that no investigation brought any suspicion upon CB save for an informant , it could be said that it is because there is no direct link between the suspect and victim which is hes either very clever, lucky or had no part in the disappearance .JMO

ETA ,with one rape conviction, offences against minors ,5 charges pending including rape and offences against minors, lucky or clever doesn't cover it so does it leave the third option above?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I see both pov here, regarding the comparison between the OG and the German investigation.

Something JG said during OG’s investigation that struck me:

“It is important the Met don't share too much to put words in people's mouths because the evidence has to be sufficiently independent in order to be put before a court."

Madeleine McCann: German suspect profiled by former NI cop Gamble ... 'an end could be in sight' for heartbroken parents Gerry and Kate

And HCW’s stance:

‘Mr Wolters added: “The sooner we get evidence, the better for us to avoid the risk of him ever being released.

"If we find nothing new against him it could be that in seven years at the latest he may be released and leaves Germany for a country that doesn’t extradite."

The prosecutor said investigators are attempting to build the strongest case possible before trying to interrogate their chief suspect.’

Maddie suspect who raped pensioner now 'in therapy to cope with media scrutiny'

 

[Consider Dudley]

Bluffing by saying he knows for certain something he can't possibly know for certain.

Let's leave it, Dudley. Just agree to disagree Just saying what I think. It's cool if you don't agree.

Cool, I don’t think you can accuse them of bluffing though unless you know for a fact that they have no other compelling evidence upon which they base their conclusions. So when you say they are bluffing you may be right but equally you may be wrong.

 

[Consider Dudley]

Bluffing by saying he knows for certain something he can't possibly know for certain.

Let's leave it, Dudley. Just agree to disagree Just saying what I think. It's cool if you don't agree.

Cool, I don’t think you can accuse them of bluffing though unless you know for a fact that they have no other compelling evidence upon which they base their conclusions. So when you say they are bluffing you may be right but equally you may be wrong.

 

[G-Unit]

Not forgetting that there are five cases pending which also have victims awaiting justice.

If Braunschweig is ruled to have jurisdiction, and if CB is found guilty, of course.

 

[Dave55]

We assume the girl is dead. There’s no other possibility.
Maybe my confusion but I thought there was something reporting "she's would not have survived"?! But can't catch this in the press.
Photo or autobiographic text or panikspatz chat (corroborating HB and others? testimonies) and that may capture pre-torture or pre-destruction of the body?!

I too recall Wolters saying she would not have survived...along with other things he's said made me believe he has a photo or video of abuse

 

[RichardKimble]

I too recall Wolters saying she would not have survived...along with other things he's said made me believe he has a photo or video of abuse

No one seems to be able to bring that quote to the table, does it exist ?

 

[Lyall0814]

You have misread my post. Quite clearly the mischief making to which I referred was spawned on a particular date on a particular podcast.

I don’t really have an opinion on what you say are German tactics regarding (I presume)the media. What would the point of that be when the German judicial system is structured in a way that doing so makes it an irrelevance? The German police and prosecutors will tailor their practices to their own system of justice and if you must make comparison with others, I would say they are second to none.

What I'm seeing with regard to the German police and prosecutors is the way in which their evidence gathering skills in five pending cases far outweighs that of the Portuguese who gave up on all of them.

I would like to see them being given the space to do likewise in the MM case with the evidence leading to charges and a trial.

Well the HB case was being mentioned in 2007, so it wasn't the BKA who unearthed that. And one of the other cases led to CB being extradited by the Portuguese back to Germany. So the BKA didn't unearth that case either. I think it's important to not exaggerate.

And nobody's stopping the German, British and Portuguese investigators. Three years of space they've had now since they went public. It's been six years or so since they first associated CB with MM. It's been 7 1/2 years since they searched one of the locations he was associated with and found the large haul of digital material.

That's a lot of time and space, but they're still unable to bring the evidence Wolters talked about in 2020 to a court. People are entitled to ask questions about why they can't. People are entitled to wonder if the reason they can't is because what Wolters said in June 2020 was simply wrong.

(The jurisdiction issue probably hasn't helped. And it's likely pandemic restrictions slowed investigation also. That's all true but so is that even with these problems it has been a lot of time and questions can be asked. Imo they should be asked)

 

[Okapi]

No one seems to be able to bring that quote to the table, does it exist ?

I think this is a case of Chinese whispers, and the meaning has been incorrectly inferred from statements paraphrased in media down the years.

Rather than ‘there’s no way she could have survived’ (inference: a horrific ordeal), I suspect it alludes more to ‘based on our corroborative evidence implicating CB in MM’s abduction, we think there is no chance she could have survived’ (inference: statistically speaking).

Because the odds of survival after abduction by an unknown paedophile are well known to be vanishingly small.

“We have no body and no DNA but we have other evidence. Based on the evidence we have, it leads to no other conclusion.

“I can’t tell you on which basis we assume she is dead. But for us, there’s no other possibility. There is no hope she is alive.”


Prosecutor '100% convinced' suspect abducted and murdered Madeleine McCann

 

[Denis R Tandib]

If Braunschweig is ruled to have jurisdiction, and if CB is found guilty, of course.

Not to undermine the seriousness of the alleged crime but two of those case don’t have identified victims… victims that haven’t come forward despite the global appeal. I can understand the difficulty victims of rape may have in coming forward but the facts, as we know them, are that CB was visible on the footage and we only know about these offences from two criminals - one of which is a convicted people smuggler and has a conviction for publicly assaulting a woman.

To say there are victims of five crime awaiting justice is inaccurate IMO.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Well the HB case was being mentioned in 2007, so it wasn't the BKA who unearthed that. And one of the other cases led to CB being extradited by the Portuguese back to Germany. So the BKA didn't unearth that case either. I think it's important to not exaggerate.

And nobody's stopping the German, British and Portuguese investigators. Three years of space they've had now since they went public. It's been six years or so since they first associated CB with MM. It's been 7 1/2 years since they searched one of the locations he was associated with and found the large haul of digital material.

That's a lot of time and space, but they're still unable to bring the evidence Wolters talked about in 2020 to a court. People are entitled to ask questions about why they can't. People are entitled to wonder if the reason they can't is because what Wolters said in June 2020 was simply wrong.

(The jurisdiction issue probably hasn't helped. And it's likely pandemic restrictions slowed investigation also. That's all true but so is that even with these problems it has been a lot of time and questions can be asked. Imo they should be asked)

I agree. People should ask questions. How else would we ever get close to the truth about anything?

Believing what HCW has said despite how the investigation has unfolded is akin to continuing to drink the Koolaid IMO.

 

[Dave55]

No one seems to be able to bring that quote to the table, does it exist ?

It absolutely exists. It was in the early stages when he was criticized for saying Maddie was dead...he explained that they did not have absolute proof of death but that death was the only conclusion that could be drawn from their evidence

 

[Dave55]

I think this is a case of Chinese whispers, and the meaning has been incorrectly inferred from statements paraphrased in media down the years.

Rather than ‘there’s no way she could have survived’ (inference: a horrific ordeal), I suspect it alludes more to ‘based on our corroborative evidence implicating CB in MM’s abduction, we think there is no chance she could have survived’ (inference: statistically speaking).

Because the odds of survival after abduction by an unknown paedophile are well known to be vanishingly small.

“We have no body and no DNA but we have other evidence. Based on the evidence we have, it leads to no other conclusion.

“I can’t tell you on which basis we assume she is dead. But for us, there’s no other possibility. There is no hope she is alive.”


Prosecutor '100% convinced' suspect abducted and murdered Madeleine McCann

Not Chinese whispers..Wolters was quite clear