Madonna Angers the Vatican

[narlacat]

Show me one Catholic woman who is repressed.


Catholicism has no time for women, otherwise they would be in positions of power like the men.
They're not.
I think all Catholics are repressed lol, you can't do this, you can't do that

 

[Sherlockmom]

It's funny to see how some people will twist and turn themselves to defend this.


>>Uh, I don't get it. Why is Madonna's use of a crucifixion image necessarily sacriligious or an attack on the Catholic Church? <<

Because Jesus' suffering on the cross is the symbol of our religion and has been for centuries. It's the most important part of what makes us Christian. Christians hang crucifixies in their homes, pray in front of them in Church and wear them around our necks. Madonna also wears a crown of thorns on her head. She is mocking the crucifixion not honoring it. And you don't see why we would be offended? Did you feel the same way about the Mohammed cartoons? At least we don't have to worry about Christians declaring Jihad on anyone and rioting in the streets.


>>Why is this particular faux-crucifixion such an outrage?<<

The same reason that Christians were offended by depictions of the virgin Mary with pee displayed in a museum at the public's expense. That's not art. I can poop on a piece of cardboard and hang it up. Would you consider that art? Not all art is the same. Some is good art, some is bad art, and some isn't art at all no matter what people would like to call it. It's the same with religion. Not all are on the same moral plain. I wouldn't put Islam on the same moral plane as Christianity. The idea that Catholic women in our country are repressed is just ludricious. There isn't ANY repression in this country of women and there hasn't been for some time. We have the most free women on the face of the earth.

I left the Catholic church myself dissatisfied but it wasn't because I was repressed or angry at God. If Madonna is still doing outrageous stuff like this because she is acting out like a spoiled teenager she needs psychological help. And where is this "repression" coming from? Has Madonna said she was repressed or is this a figment of someone's imagination?

When you talk about spoiled Italian women needing to talk prozac or drink because they think they were repressed by the Catholic church you sound like you live in some kind of insulated bubble and haven't heard about the real repression of women that is going on all over the world. The disfiguring female circumcision, the repression of women in the middle east who are stoned when they are raped, the women in Africa who are raped when they go to get cooking water for their families.

I'm sorry, but I haven't read any stories about repressed Italian Catholic women stoned when they went to the drugstore to get prozac

 

[Nova]

OK, I guess I should have said religious themes that "shock" or "offend" the audience - didn't most of those present to their own audience, country, religion of choice; or did they go to another country to "present".

My beef is just her going to Italy with this; I think you have to have respect for another country's predominant language, religion, social more's, etc.

...

Yes, "Jesus Christ, Superstar" was a hit in the 60's; but did it play in Italy? Don't know; but it was a rather positive celebration, wasn't it?

Superstar wasn't considered positive by most Christians at the time.

So the Dixie Chicks can't talk about Bush in England and Madonna can't mount her faux-cross in Italy? Somebody is going to have to put out a book on international, show biz etiquette.

 

[Marthatex]

Superstar wasn't considered positive by most Christians at the time.

So the Dixie Chicks can't talk about Bush in England and Madonna can't mount her faux-cross in Italy? Somebody is going to have to put out a book on international, show biz etiquette.

No. And Bush should chew with his mouth closed in Spain. (or wherever it was)

 

[Nova]

Sherlockmom,

Your last post quotes me and then responds to a number of arguments, many of which weren't mine. I'll leave the issue of whether Catholic women are repressed to others.

Yes, the crucifixion is a powerful symbol; that's why Madonna and other artists invoke it. I see no reason why that symbol belongs to you or to the Pope more than it does to Madonna. Whether Madonna is mocking the symbol, I can't say. I have yet to see evidence of that. But if she is, mockery too is a form of artistic expression.

No, I didn't have a problem with cartoons depicting Mohammed. I thought the violent response to those cartoons was deplorable.

Of course, you are entitled to be offended. And I am entitled to think you are overreacting. (ETA this last statement sounds snarkier than I meant it to be. I enjoy your posts, Sherlockmom. But I think people of great faith have to accept that not everyone will share their devotion.)

 

[Nova]

No. And Bush should chew with his mouth closed in Spain. (or wherever it was)

Aw, Martha, give GW a break. At least he didn't throw up on his host.

 

[Dark Knight]

>I think Madonna express's her anger at the Church through her art which is music. I think even at 50 she is rebelling against the traditional roles placed on the Italian Catholic women of her childhood and family.<


As a Christian I am deeply offended and see this as hate speech. Will her career be over like Mel Gibsons? Will this dominate the airways and will Hollywood be called upon to shun her? Will there be a call to boycott her recordings and shows?

Madonna has expressed her hatred of the Catholic church in many ways over the years and has suffered absolutely no consequences for it. When she does it's "expressing herself through her art". If she had come out and depicted Mohammed in an offensive way would the outcry be louder? How about she came out wearing a headscarf or a burka wearing a suicide vest to express her anger towards Islam. Do you think that would create a bigger controversy and calls for her to be condemned for hate speech? I can assure you, her career WOULD be over and all of her friends would burn their little red Kabballah bracelets.

Madonna isn't doing this to express her repressed Catholic upbringing. From what I've read of her past she came from a very normal middle class Catholic family her mother died young from cancer I believe and her father remarried. How was she repressed? She was hardly forced into any kind of traditional role. She wasn't forced into a convent or forced to marry and have 10 kids. She led a very free life from a young age. She became a sleazy pop star that simulates sex in her stage acts, simulates lesbianism with other pop tarts, makes fun of the Catholic church and uses it's most sacred icon for shock value to gain a buck and has posed with her legs spread apart in a book of sexual poses. She then joined a fake religion that insults Jews IMO. This stuff is done for it's shock value alone and to make even more money to keep her has-been career going. Nothing surprising here except that there will be little outrage. What part of her new-found religion looks favorably upon this type of behavior?

Mel Gibson got drunk and says Jews are responsible for all of the wars in the world. But last I looked he was still married to the same woman, raises his kids to be decent human beings, is married to their mother making them all legitimate, stays away from Hollywood parties and keeps his pants on.

Mel makes a movie about Jesus' death and is mocked and reviled. Madonna makes fun of Jesus and will make a big bunch of money and still be a media darling. Go figure. This country suffers from a lack of moral clarity.

Well said! :clap: :clap: :clap: Of course it's meant to be offensive.

Madonna is just lame and desperate at this point. I'm praying for her, she needs it. (Well, who doesn't? lol)

 

[Dark Knight]

No. And Bush should chew with his mouth closed in Spain. (or wherever it was)

LOL!!!!!!!! Russia, actually.

 

[Dark Knight]

Show me one Catholic woman who is repressed.


Catholicism has no time for women, otherwise they would be in positions of power like the men.
They're not.
I think all Catholics are repressed lol, you can't do this, you can't do that

I think you need to be more repressed! Bahahahahahahaha! :crazy:

 

[Nova]

Perhaps its her trying to compare herself with Jesus? I'm not Catholic, so that's just my guess. I don't care for Madonna, so there's not too much she can do that I agree with.

For the record, I thought Madonna's attitude was fun in 1982. I was in my 20s. I matured.

 

[Dark Knight]

Perhaps its her trying to compare herself with Jesus? I'm not Catholic, so that's just my guess. I don't care for Madonna, so there's not too much she can do that I agree with.

I would think any Christian would be offended by it. She just brought it to the Vatican's back yard this time, is all. Rome is rich in Christian history, obviously. But stunts like this should be distateful to all Christians anywhere. Even the Muslim and Jewish groups in Italy have condemned this stunt, which I appreciate.

 

[Sherlockmom]

>Of course, you are entitled to be offended. And I am entitled to think you are overreacting. (ETA this last statement sounds snarkier than I meant it to be. I enjoy your posts, Sherlockmom. But I think people of great faith have to accept that not everyone will share their devotion.)<


I'm not really offended. I was trying to make a point. The point is that what Madonna is doing is just as offensive as MG's remarks about Jews but it is treated differently. Excuses are made for her that will not be made for MG. Now before I am misunderstood, I find Mel equally despicable but more for his drunk driving behavior than his remarks about Jews. One action could have resulted in much more serious harm.

Whether or not Madonna shares my devotion is besides the point. It doesn't give her a pass to make a mockery of something that alot of people take very seriously. I have read a statement of hers somewhere about why she did this and it wasn't because she was repressed. It was to make a political/religious statement. If I have some time later between canning pickles and freezing green beans LOL I'll try to see if I can dig that up. It will be interesting to see if her statements change in tone now.

What I am trying to do is compare this to the outrage that was shown MG for his Jewish statements. I can see how Hitler and his ideas took hold in the Jewish population. It has become okay to treat one group of people, christians, differently than other religious groups. It is politically correct to mock them and villify them. You can say things about Christians that you wouldn't dare say about Islamists for example. It started out to be small things and grew and grew.

If Mel had done the same thing except instead of saying bad things about Jews said that George Bush was the new Hitler and that Christians were responsible for all of the wars in the world he would have been given a pass. He would have been just another hollywood nutcase expressing his first amendment rights.

Sorry if I spoke of other comments while only quoting you. I haven't figured out how to include multiple quotes from different posters yet in this forum. I wasn't intending on picking on you or putting words in your mouth

 

[narlacat]

Well said! :clap: :clap: :clap: Of course it's meant to be offensive.

Madonna is just lame and desperate at this point. I'm praying for her, she needs it. (Well, who doesn't? lol)

I doubt Madonna needs you praying for her!
She would probably tell you not to bother.

Lots of people are doing just fine without being prayed for DK :hand:

 

[Delores]

>I think Madonna express's her anger at the Church through her art which is music. I think even at 50 she is rebelling against the traditional roles placed on the Italian Catholic women of her childhood and family.<


As a Christian I am deeply offended and see this as hate speech. Will her career be over like Mel Gibsons? Will this dominate the airways and will Hollywood be called upon to shun her? Will there be a call to boycott her recordings and shows?

Madonna has expressed her hatred of the Catholic church in many ways over the years and has suffered absolutely no consequences for it. When she does it's "expressing herself through her art". If she had come out and depicted Mohammed in an offensive way would the outcry be louder? How about she came out wearing a headscarf or a burka wearing a suicide vest to express her anger towards Islam. Do you think that would create a bigger controversy and calls for her to be condemned for hate speech? I can assure you, her career WOULD be over and all of her friends would burn their little red Kabballah bracelets.

Madonna isn't doing this to express her repressed Catholic upbringing. From what I've read of her past she came from a very normal middle class Catholic family her mother died young from cancer I believe and her father remarried. How was she repressed? She was hardly forced into any kind of traditional role. She wasn't forced into a convent or forced to marry and have 10 kids. She led a very free life from a young age. She became a sleazy pop star that simulates sex in her stage acts, simulates lesbianism with other pop tarts, makes fun of the Catholic church and uses it's most sacred icon for shock value to gain a buck and has posed with her legs spread apart in a book of sexual poses. She then joined a fake religion that insults Jews IMO. This stuff is done for it's shock value alone and to make even more money to keep her has-been career going. Nothing surprising here except that there will be little outrage. What part of her new-found religion looks favorably upon this type of behavior?

Mel Gibson got drunk and says Jews are responsible for all of the wars in the world. But last I looked he was still married to the same woman, raises his kids to be decent human beings, is married to their mother making them all legitimate, stays away from Hollywood parties and keeps his pants on.

Mel makes a movie about Jesus' death and is mocked and reviled. Madonna makes fun of Jesus and will make a big bunch of money and still be a media darling. Go figure. This country suffers from a lack of moral clarity.

I agree ! thanks for saying it so well

 

[Delores]

Because she's a woman?

A few years ago, a theater in New Jersey received death threats because they cast an African-American man as Jesus in a play.

I'm not sure accommodating magical thinking is a matter of respect. I think we might better call it enabling.

Perhaps our Lord is african? who is gonna bow their kness to him then? I WILL FOR SURE no matter what he is, He is Lord.Madonna is a rude woman.

 

[narlacat]

I think you need to be more repressed! Bahahahahahahaha! :crazy:

Yeah shut up Narla, who cares what you think, Catholics rule ok

 

[narlacat]

Madonna to help orphans in Malawi.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=68121


She's not all bad.

 

[luvbeaches]

I can not stand her. She is so fake in every sense of the imagination including her fake british accent ...isn't she from Detroit or something...I could care less what the B@@@@ does because she is only doing it to keep her sorry a## in the media spotlight. But, I should try to be more honest w/ my feelings...not hold anything back :blushing: :blushing:

I agree, she is so fake. And a hypocrite to boot. I've read about things she allows her kids to do and not to do, but she seems to set no boundaries for herself. It's going to be interesting to see what those two kids of hers do once they are old enough to make their own choices.

I personally think she's getting a little long in the tooth to be dressing the way she does...The tart look, looks really goofy on her. It's like she refuses to understand that she is getting old!

I think she is from Detroit.

 

[SieSie]

I like a lot of Madonna's music and how she's been able to change styles through the years to keep the public interested. I don't always agree with everything she chooses to do, but I do believe she has the right to express herself however she wants. I, myself, think it's disrespectful and I wish she would choose other outlets for her "art". I won't go see the show, but I also won't condemn her right to perform it.

From news.ninemsn.com.au
Muslim and Jewish leaders also criticised the concert stunt.

"It's not the first time Madonna stages such an act. We deplore it, we feel it is an act of bad taste," said Mario Scialoja, president of the Muslim World League in Italy.

"We express solidarity with the Catholic world," said Riccardo Pacifici, spokesman for Rome's Jewish community.

"It's a disrespectful act, and to do it in Rome is even worse."

I think it's great that Muslim and Jewish leaders are showing support for the Catholic community - that's something good, huh?!

 

[michelle]

:laugh: :laugh:

No. And Bush should chew with his mouth closed in Spain. (or wherever it was)

Oh, that had me laugh out loud!