Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #5

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Owlpellet

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No. The "locals" are not such cowards. They would have brought her to the resorts area, and looked for her family

I mean no disrespect to local people. There are many other reasons why someone might be unable or feel reluctant to take her to the resort. Maybe they were in the area doing something they didn’t want known about. (Visiting a girl friend, driving without a license) Who knows.

Also they may have come across Nora on the Sunday before they understood there was a missing and vulnerable girl from Dunsun that everyone was looking for. Perhaps they just saw someone on the road that needed help and took her with them to the Police Post which happened to be at the start of the easier, shorter walk to the waterfall. Nora would not have known the name of where she was staying and there would have been communication issues. It just makes more sense to me that she wandered the shorter distance to the waterfall and beyond from the Police Post. (Ending up 500m from a track a 4x4 could manage.) Taking her to the Police Post would have seemed a helpful thing to do.

Of course, if the Police Post was always staffed then it couldn’t have happened this way. But it may have been early or late in the day. So she could have been given a lift in the early morning at the start of all this (an unintentional abduction) or after she was seen bathing in the river near the road at 7pm if that sighting was of her.
 
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SuperTmo

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I don't think her being able to go up and down the stairs is consistent with the picture they've painted of her abilities later on. IMO.

I agree. The reviews of the resort and the home said it looks nothing like the photos and is much more rickety than guests anticipated. The stairs aren’t reasonably safe for someone that is described how Nora was.

But that said, her school makes it sound like she was only dealing with some learning delays. The kids in the school video don’t sound at all like Nora did. It’s all very confusing.

As far as I understand the police were not allowed to speak to the kids and the family’s lawyer they retained on day 2 was the intermediary in all questions, meaning he would ask the kids along with the parents the questions that the cops wanted to know.
 

SuperTmo

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I can not see a reason why her parents would exaggerate her walking abilities.
The one thing they wanted was for her to be found.
If for a moment they thought she could have gone unaided into the jungle would they have not immediately have gone there and started to call her name?

Why would they immediately assume someone couldn’t have dumped her there after kidnapping her? They were unhappy and frustrated with the jungle search being the focus and not the kidnapper story (per the LBT guy). But if they thought she could go up and down spiral stairs they should have known she could get into the jungle on her own.

It’s confusing how some refuse to see that she could have done these things because she did, and refuse to acknowledge that the parents seemingly exaggerated her inabilities because she obviously DID. It feels like they did not want the jungle search. What she did is not cohesive with what her parents claimed she couldn’t do. But is totally in line with what they initially said about her.
 

SuperTmo

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I'm out running errands so I don't have time to make a detailed response but I don't think that the parents were lying I just think that they have ardently believe from the beginning that she was kidnapped and if she was able to do more things physically than what they've let us to believe fewer people would believe she was kidnapped. back to the issue of needing assistance with walking what assistance did she have she's going to a school where she is supposed to be learning to be independent if she needed assistance walking then I expect you to have a walker or a cane or braces or something like that. but I haven't seen any evidence that she used anything like that maybe she walked slowly maybe she needed to hold on to things but the jungle is full of trees and things are her to hold onto I just think in the absence of any evidence that she was kidnapped at the only option is that she left on her own at sad is that may be.

Her school describes itself as being for kids with moderate learning disabilities and autism spectrum disorder. It doesn’t appear to be a school for severely disabled children. It doesn’t appear that there are kids with any mobility issues unless they left them off of the video. They just don’t seem to be at the same grade level as their same age peers, based on the video. None of the kids in the video seem to have their own aides working 1:1 or 1:2. It’s all very strange because her life doesn’t match with what we came to know after many days of her missing. I’m just super confused by this case.
 

Skigh

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Her school describes itself as being for kids with moderate learning disabilities and autism spectrum disorder. It doesn’t appear to be a school for severely disabled children. It doesn’t appear that there are kids with any mobility issues unless they left them off of the video. They just don’t seem to be at the same grade level as their same age peers, based on the video. None of the kids in the video seem to have their own aides working 1:1 or 1:2. It’s all very strange because her life doesn’t match with what we came to know after many days of her missing. I’m just super confused by this case.
it was a lovely video and the children did look happy to be there.
Did you spot Nora?
There was no way to tell whether some children had mobility issues.
The staffing levels would be high and children would work in small groups according to their needs.
Some children would have specific time working on exercises to strengthen muscles and improve coordination.
 

oviedo

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IMO, if she had ANY trouble walking, there was no reason for her to have to sleep upstairs and navigate those stairs when there was a bed downstairs. I just think perhaps her difficulty walking has been exaggerated.
It is odd IMO a spiral staircase even with just one curve is still tricky at night or early morning - and with someone who’s difficulty the parents described in walking to manage that just does not make sense to me - either she could not have managed walking and stairs due to her disability or she could ?
 

crhedBngr

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I'm wondering if Nora's parents will have another postmortem conducted when they get home.

Nora's family 'hoping for answers' over death

From the above-referenced link:

The family of a teenager who died in Malaysia after disappearing on a family holiday said they hope to have "more answers to our many questions".

Nora Quoirin's body was found beside a stream on Tuesday about 1.6 miles (2.5km) from her accommodation.

A post-mortem examination revealed the 15-year-old died from internal bleeding probably caused by hunger and stress.

Her family said the test results gave "some information" but she died in "extremely complex circumstances".

"We are still struggling to understand the events of the last 10 days," they added in a statement.
 

dotr

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It was said that Nora could wash and dress herself independently but struggled to wash her hair and do buttons.
I'm assuming she did not have to wear protective gear such as elbow or knee pads or a helmet or it would have been mentioned. I'm not sure about any other kind.
She was learning to ride a bike at school so she may have had to for that particular activity. Imo
"Protective material" was my poor euphemism for pullups/diapers.
 

MsBetsy

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it was a lovely video and the children did look happy to be there.
Did you spot Nora?
There was no way to tell whether some children had mobility issues.
The staffing levels would be high and children would work in small groups according to their needs.
Some children would have specific time working on exercises to strengthen muscles and improve coordination.
Yes, and there is no reason why she could not have had additional therapies somewhere else.
If she was only just learning to ride a bike then it seems to me she must have needed some type of physical or occupational therapies at some point in her life.
In some cases, the therapists can come to the home or the school to provide these services.
She also spent a great deal of time in the hospital.
She had her strengths monitored continuously and appeared to have difficulty with fine motor skills so I would assume she had some sort of therapy to help with that. Imo
 

MsBetsy

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"Protective material" was my poor euphemism for pullups/diapers.
Oh, ok, well she was described as being in her underwear when she disappeared.
My guess would be she would not have worn pull ups. She was able to brush her teeth and wash herself and other daily living skills so it sounds to me like she was very high functioning considering her disability. Imo
 

Skigh

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Yes, and there is no reason why she could not have had additional therapies somewhere else.
If she was only just learning to ride a bike then it seems to me she must have needed some type of physical or occupational therapies at some point in her life.
In some cases, the therapists can come to the home or the school to provide these services.
She also spent a great deal of time in the hospital.
She had her strengths monitored continuously and appeared to have difficulty with fine motor skills so I would assume she had some sort of therapy to help with that. Imo
Often outside agencies come into school and work with staff so they can work with students to practise different skills or do certain activities.
I am sure riding a bike would be something she was learning at school and probably also at home.
 

Kubirai

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I mean no disrespect to local people. There are many other reasons why someone might be unable or feel reluctant to take her to the resort.
...
Of course, if the Police Post was always staffed then it couldn’t have happened this way. But it may have been early or late in the day. So she could have been given a lift in the early morning at the start of all this (an unintentional abduction) or after she was seen bathing in the river near the road at 7pm if that sighting was of her.
There are much more likely scenarios without "locals" transporting a young foreign female.
 

dreamwarrior66

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Her school describes itself as being for kids with moderate learning disabilities and autism spectrum disorder. It doesn’t appear to be a school for severely disabled children. It doesn’t appear that there are kids with any mobility issues unless they left them off of the video. They just don’t seem to be at the same grade level as their same age peers, based on the video. None of the kids in the video seem to have their own aides working 1:1 or 1:2. It’s all very strange because her life doesn’t match with what we came to know after many days of her missing. I’m just super confused by this case.
There's no schools for "severely disabled" children, only hospitals and care facilities. There is no place in the world for children specifically with Nora's disability because it's so rare. So the family will take whatever they can get. Nora may have needed a lot of help, but as long as she wasn't violent to herself or others any mild-moderate special needs school/class would welcome her.
 

Mercsw

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Really good points! Given how convoluted this story is I wouldn’t blame anyone for being hesitant to approach her. Maybe that is why a whole hiking group went together when she was found. So nobody could find themselves being blamed.

The map suggests this sighting was incorrect or unlinked. I can believe she wandered towards the waterfall and got disorientated, I don’t believe she was swimming many miles away near a busy road. The biker did the right thing reporting it but it’s unlikely to be the girl as it was too far away and I believe she couldn’t swim
 

Kubirai

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Google search will show a 2013 page called "Lata Berembun easy day hike" by mcHiker.

He drove a small 4x4 vehicle all the way to the waterfall from the exact location marked on this map.

He posted photos of the river below the trail, and even the main waterfall through some trees.

The witness who reported seeing a white female swimmer may have followed same offroad trail, above the river barely visible in the map.

Dusun resort map shows same river.Screenshot_20190818-145403.pngScreenshot_20190818-143525.png
 

Kubirai

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I can believe she wandered towards the waterfall and got disorientated, I don’t believe she was swimming many miles away near a busy road.
Swimming and bathing is interchangeable in local language. If he was on the offroad trail, he had a brief glimpse through the trees.

The location was NOT many miles away, it was closer to Dusun, probably the white area near the red marker in my map above.

It was Sunday, Aug 4, very first day. It is possible Nora was trying to cross the shallow wide section.
 

Chiatos

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Google search will show a 2013 page called "Lata Berembun easy day hike" by mcHiker.

He drove a small 4x4 vehicle all the way to the waterfall from the exact location marked on this map.

He posted photos of the river below the trail, and even the main waterfall through some trees.

The witness who reported seeing a white female swimmer may have followed same offroad trail, above the river barely visible in the map.

Dusun resort map shows same river.View attachment 199048View attachment 199049
I'm sorry, but:
The waterfall you are referring to is in Pahang, North of KualaLumpur.
The Lata Berembun waterfall in Pahang - Rainforest Journal
'Nora's' waterfall is South East of KualaLumpur, near Pantai.
 
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Liming

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There's no schools for "severely disabled" children, only hospitals and care facilities. There is no place in the world for children specifically with Nora's disability because it's so rare. So the family will take whatever they can get. Nora may have needed a lot of help, but as long as she wasn't violent to herself or others any mild-moderate special needs school/class would welcome her.
Perhaps do a little research, your post is incorrect.
 

Chiatos

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There is no way Nora would have been able to reach that waterfall on her own. Someone took her there.

It's of no use to mix up waterfalls to prove that Nora reached it on her own and that the rider on the motorcycle had seen her in the river.
 
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