Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #5

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Ellmau, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. cocomisty

    cocomisty Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Garratt Park School - Nora Quoirin

    The Garratt Park School community is deeply shocked and saddened by the awful news of Nora’s death. Nora was a delight to work with, and focused very hard on making the best of her abilities. She was always well behaved, and set an example to others.
     


  2. sabrecmc

    sabrecmc Active Member

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    I admit that I stopped following this case after it seemed like a semi-satisfactory explanation had been given, but I was checking back and saw this article. I guess I'm still so confused by one version of Nora that made her sound virtually incapable of doing much of anything on her own and this version where she reads the Washington Post on a Kindle and makes new recipes every week. I think at one point it was reported that she could ride a bike, or was learning how to, then then another report said she couldn't possibly manage stairs on her own, couldn't button her clothes, etc. One version would be all but unable to leave the room on her own, the other could easily have wandered off for a variety of reasons and gotten lost. That dichotomy has always been so confusing to me. We will probably never know, unless the DNA results come back with something that indicates foul play, but the disparities in how she was described as far as her mental and physical capabilities have been frustrating.

    We are not, of course, entitled to know all of the particulars of Nora's abilities. I'm sure the family shared the information with the authorities and searchers to aid in the investigation and search, and that's all that matters, but I do admit to still being left feeling like I really have no idea how to evaluate the different scenarios because I just don't have that crucial information about Nora's abilities.

    I hope whatever comes of the DNA results and toxicology, it gives the parents some sense of closure. The uncertainty has to eat at them, and all I can hope is that they are able to get a little bit of a better picture of what might have happened.
     
  3. AzPistonsGirl

    AzPistonsGirl Detroit to the Bone

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    SBM: Thank you. I am also confused by this and appreciate someone else saying so. There is so much love and support for Nora's family that I feared pointing this out so just stayed away. It is not for me to be satisfied with the findings here, but it does leave me feeling quite unsure (and unconvinced) about what happened. Regardless, may her friends and those who loved Nora find the comfort and support they need.
     
  4. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    They are not obligated to express any insights or acceptance about the investigation that they have, nor should they be expected to.

    The spokesman for the family related some of the family's concerns early on in the investigation before Nora's body was found. Those concerns were normal and certainly not out of the ordinary.

    Since then the investigation has been ongoing, and they have expressed their thanks and have been waiting for toxicology and DNA reports to be completed.

    The lawyer was pretty clear that only if there were any other significant findings would they pursue a criminal investigation. If they had uncovered any other evidence we probably would have heard by now. Only then would I expect them to make a statement if they felt it was necessary.

    The mystery behind what happened may never be known. It's a very stange and complex case and there are still many questions that we may never know the answers to.

    The family is dealing with their grief right now and hopefully have some closure now. I haven't seen any indication that they are not acceping of what happened.

    Unfortunately the hardest thing may be that they will never understand or come to know the circumstances of what happened to their daughter. I imagine the not knowing will be the hardest thing to come to terms with.
    It's not so much that they won't accept it, but that they may never understand it.

    IMO
     
  5. Eloise

    Eloise Well-Known Member

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    Reading newspapers on a kindle ... could have conversations ... competing in a sackrace.

    I definitely think Nora was capable of getting as far as she did under her own steam. I have felt this way for a long time, and never saw how there was evidence she was abducted. Just my own opinion.


    Probably they have accepted it. That said I have a great deal of sympathy for parents who can't accept that bad things sometimes happen with nobody to pin the blame on.

    I really don't think they have to. Maybe they just want to quietly go on with their lives. Maybe they feel there is nothing left to say to the world at large and they just want to focus on their own family.
     
  6. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure the comment about reading the Washington Post was meant to be seen as something comical that Nora said. It was said that she was very funny. As she was only on a beginning reading level she may have been able to make out a few small words but she would not have understood it. "Playing with her kindle" doesn't mean she could read at that level. She only spoke in 2 or 3 word sentences.

    She was high functioning for her disorder, but her issues with mobility would have made it extremely difficult for her to navigate the terrain in the jungle by herself.
    Jumping in a sack race and learning how to ride a bike hardly compares with the strength required to survive in the jungle for 7 or 8 days. Even a person without a disability would have a difficult time. Imo
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  7. neesaki

    neesaki Well-Known Member

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    There would have been nothing at all wrong with taking flowers, but a very sweet and thoughtful thing to do.
    Even if you didn’t, it’s the thought that counts.
     
  8. bronbaby

    bronbaby Well-Known Member

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    that is kind of you to voice your opinion. I decided not too when I read a few opposing comments on here and felt bad. It's the same as people laying flowers where someone has died.
    xo
     
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  9. Kittybunny

    Kittybunny Well-Known Member

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    But she didn't survive. There's really nothing in that jungle short of her drowning herself that would have killed anyone instantly, regardless of how disabled they are. Unfortunately, starvation is a slow painful death. Also, don't underestimate human survival instinct - strength and adrenalin are survival mechanisms that enable us to do things we wouldn't ordinarily be able to, and it doesn't take mental abilities for that to kick in. It's primal.
     
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  10. DianeElaine

    DianeElaine Well-Known Member

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    I’ve spent a lot of time reading this thread and thinking about Nora and her family, trying to imagine what could have happened here (and I have a lot of company). For what it’s worth, here are some of my (amateur) ideas.

    If we didn’t already know that Nora was tragically found deceased, alone, barefoot, nude and apparently unmolested in the rainforest adjacent to the resort 11 days (?) after she disappeared, I would never have come up with the following scenarios.

    The family was at the resort/accommodation a full day (?) before Nora vanished. Although they would probably have been tired from traveling and may well have spent some time resting, I would imagine they also spent some time outdoors too, perhaps at the swimming pool or playground and/or just walking around to see what was there.

    While swimming, playing and/or walking around outside, they may have talked with others such as adults and children who were guests, and perhaps even resort staff.

    I believe I recall seeing a sign (or was it on their website?), describing the offer of guided walking tours to the nearby rainforest waterfall. Perhaps the family either took part in conversations with others about the guided walking tours or overheard others talking about them. They maybe even discussed the possibility of going on such a guided walking tour, and that may well have captured the imagination of the children, and perhaps Nora most of all.

    Now I do not pretend to know anything about Nora that has not been mentioned in this thread, but I can’t help wondering if at 15, she was beginning to feel a bit more like a “regular” teenager (unlike her parents’ opinion of her) and wanted to strike out on her own a little to “prove” she was more capable than others thought she was. Tragically, 15 year olds (whether “special needs” or not), often do not have the maturity to foresee the consequences of their actions.

    So after sleeping the night (and I don’t know when she left her room), she awakened and decided to go have a look around the resort either by herself, or in the company of a sibling. The sibling may well have refused to go with Nora, or she may have decided not to ask a sibling to go with her. So then Nora might have left on her own, probably quite tentatively at first, and probably quietly so as not to awaken her parents. She would have been excited at the prospect of striking out on her own. If the children had left their shoes downstairs (which seems reasonable), Nora may have forgotten to stop to put them on before leaving through the downstairs window. At this point, I don’t know what to say about the nighttime garments she was wearing, other than she seems not to have gotten dressed, which is odd (I think).

    Nora steps outside and is thrilled with her independence. Maybe it was at dawn or just before dawn. If she left in total darkness, it’s just hard for me to imagine that, unless the resort had outside lighting that would have been on at the time she left her accommodation. In any case, she starts out on her walk, and goes to the entrance of the rainforest, which she may have known about from their walk around the day before. Surely by this time it’s dawn and there is enough sunlight to allow her to see where she’s going in the rainforest.

    She may have just imagined walking for a short distance then turning around and going back, just for the thrill of it. Perhaps as she approached and entered the rainforest, some of the early morning staff or the guests had started to either arrive or stir, and she hurried a bit to stay out of sight. Perhaps she walked a little further on until she could no longer hear any activity from the resort, assuming she did hear and/or see at least some movement or sound.

    From what I think I recall, the ”path” into the rainforest was walkable for a distance, otherwise, the guided walking tours would not have been offered.

    Nora was enthralled with what she was seeing (perhaps with the idea she would actually reach the waterfall — not sure at all about that one). But the beauty of the rainforest was intoxicating and she was on an adventure. All had worked out so far: she had gotten out of her accommodation without waking her parents, and actually reached the rainforest path without anyone seeing her. And she had done it on her own!

    Tragically, Nora becomes lost after walking over a mile in the rainforest. At some point, she takes off her nighttime garments. I don’t pretend to know why (unless they got wet when she went to drink from the river or creek or whatever, and they didn’t dry because of the humidity and so were uncomfortable). I really don’t know if she would have been afraid to ask for help from any of the searchers, if indeed she ever saw or heard any of the searchers. But we seem to know she didn’t apply for or receive help from anyone (as far as we know) and she was hopelessly lost. It’s simply heartbreaking to think of her 8 days alone, lost, wandering, starving, and no doubt desperate to find a way out of the forest. I live in North America, but I sure wish I could have been there to help her.

    Sorry for this long narrative. I’ve been thinking about all of this for days and wanted to just get it out there.
     
  11. Chichi baby

    Chichi baby Well-Known Member

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    Please do not feel bad. I think you are very kind to even consider taking flowers to the brave site. You are an awesome person!! No matter what a person does, there will always be someone to try and knock you down. Dont let them. Stay as awesome as you are.
     
  12. MrJames

    MrJames Active Member

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    I believe it has been reported along the lines that there is no suspicion of foul play following the autopsy.

    If there were no signs of foul play on the body then does that rule out that foul play did not take place? I do not think so.

    From what I have read and gather it is highly unlikely she would have ventured out of the resort on her own.

    I believe she had mobility, coordination and balance type problems along with her condition and other LD’s.

    Along with the terrain, environment and climatic conditions I do not believe she would have been capable of moving very far unseen yet the police, special troops, trackers, indigenous people, sniffer dogs, cadiva dogs and drones could not find her alive and relatively close to the resort.

    If she was able to navigate anywhere in the jungle/forest which I doubt, then I believe that she would have navigated herself back to the resort where she was staying and not to the area of a water fall which is pie in the sky in my personal opinion.

    To me this case does not add up or make sense at all.

    Too many questions remain unanswered.

    All of the above are my subjective thoughts and opinions only.
     
  13. neesaki

    neesaki Well-Known Member

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    ITA, doesn’t add up, doesn’t make sense, at all.
     
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  14. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's never made any sense.
    That Nora suddenly developed some kind of amazing strength based on her will to survive is not likely.

    She had to have been incredibly weak from hunger. If she drank from the river, she would have become ill within 24 hours, I would think.
    She must have gone to the bathroom multiple times a day.
    Yet the dogs never picked up her scent?
    She was barefoot.

    She had a duodenal ulcer that ruptured! She had to have been in incredible pain in the days before her death.
    To think that she somehow over came starvation, an ulcer in her intestines, and cuts or other injuries to her bare feet, and somehow carried on and continued her journey to the waterfall is just not realistic or believable.

    Even a person in great physical shape would be significantly weakened from that condition.

    We may never learn the story of what really happened to Nora.

    IMO
     
  15. MrJames

    MrJames Active Member

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    Correction: ...cadaver dogs... (not cadiva dogs).
     
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  16. Didi777

    Didi777 Well-Known Member

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    Every possible logical scenario, to explain what happened there, just doesn't add up.
    I have to assume that important details have either been omitted, distorted, or not even considered.
    What a very strange happening. I feel sad for all involved.
     
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  17. Major Confusion

    Major Confusion Member

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    I do not have much to add to this mystery but having lived in a tropical rain forest I do know that clothing does not last very long . Older trees fall taking younger trees with them,limbs ,trunk pieces and branches stick out every direction just waiting to snag and tear whatever you are wearing.
     
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  18. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    O/t instantly reminded of this bit from Midsummer's Night Dream..

    "Their sense thus weak, lost with their fears thus strong,
    Made senseless things begin to do them wrong;
    For briers and thorns at their apparel snatch;
    Some sleeves, some hats, from yielders all things catch."
     
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