Man Dragged off United Airlines/Flight Overbooked, April 2017

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by Tricia, Apr 11, 2017.

  1. kanzz

    kanzz kanzz=kansas

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    Ok, maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Didn't realize it required hundreds.

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  2. Gunslinging Granny

    Gunslinging Granny Well-Known Member

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    When the flight attendants saw what was occurring, they could have intervened. They could have told the security officers to stop and leave the plane, but they didn't. Dr. Dao should take legal against them too.
     
  3. emirates1957

    emirates1957 Well-Known Member

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    The Captain is command, if something happened like that here we would need the skippers okay......Flight Attendants would not be required to intervene.
     
  4. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    http://www.citynews.ca/2017/04/13/appalling-united-airlines-incident-wont-tolerated-canada-garneau/
    .
     
  5. BayouBelle_LA

    BayouBelle_LA Well-Known Member

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    Rbbm

    Is it relevant to you?
     
  6. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I'm not sure what you mean. Is it relevant to me that we have attorneys on the thread who have been explaining since the beginning that the law doesn't allow a company to get away with what United did? Well I'm one of them. (Although I think SBHack is much more knowledgeable and on target with her or his explanations of the law than I have been).

    But what I have seen is that some disregard even expert legal opinions. So at a certain point, I don't know what else can be said to help people understand. Or if anything else should be said to convince those who are so vested in the idea that United is blameless that they actually try to change the meaning of verbs!

    It is bizarre. IMO.
     
  7. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    kanzz
    Sorry I did a poor job of wording. No, did not intend to say or imply you are wrong. As I said, IDK. My apologies.

    Just thinking about concept of a class action lawsuit, presumably U/A passengers against U/A - the deepest pockets I see of the various entities involved.

    IIUC this plane did not accommodate hundreds, so does not seem imo a proposed plaintiff class could be composed of the individuals on that particular flight that day and prob'ly an insufficient # to be certified for a class action.

    What about other passengers on other U/A flights on other days, w other departure locations & arrival destinations, who have been bumped from some of those flights? If some suffered bodily injuries (e.g., broken nose, broken teeth, cuts & bleeding, bruises, etc.), doubtful imo hundreds of passengers were injured like that.

    Maybe legal professionals here could weigh in about feasibility of a class action.* For them, below is quote from my post.

    ________________________________________________________________________________
    Class action against United Airlines? If filed, who would be members of the plaintiff's/Dr. Dao's class?
    "...A class action, ... lawsuit where one of the parties is a group of people who are represented collectively by a member of that group....
    "The typicality requirement ensures that the claims or defenses of the named plaintiff are typical of those of everyone else in the class...." *
    Would Dr Dao's experience & claim of assault & battery be typical of the experience & claims of hundreds of other United Airline passengers, to meet the typicality requirement. Could a group meet the other three requirements for a class action below? *
    IDK.

    __________________________________________________ ________
    *. "Class certification Under Rule 23 [Federal Rules of Civil Procedure]
    "For the case to proceed ...court must certify the class under Rule 23 ... For a class to be certified, the moving party must meet all of the criteria listed under Rule 23(a), and at least one of the criteria listed under Rule 23(b).[SUP][8][/SUP]
    The 23(a) criteria are referred to as numerosity, commonality, typicality, and adequacy.[SUP][14][/SUP] Numerosity refers to the number of people in the class. To be certified, the class has to have enough members that simply adding each of them as a named party to the lawsuit would be impractical.[SUP][8][/SUP] There is no bright-line rule to determine numerosity, but classes with hundreds of members are generally deemed to be sufficiently numerous.[SUP][14][/SUP] To satisfy commonality, there must be a common question of law and fact such that "determination of its truth or falsity will resolve an issue that is central to the validity of each one of the claims in one stroke."[SUP][15][/SUP] The typicality requirement ensures that the claims or defenses of the named plaintiff are typical of those of everyone else in the class.[SUP][8][/SUP] Finally, adequacy requirement states that the named plaintiff must fairly and adequately represent the interests of the absent class members.[SUP][8][/SUP][SUP]" [/SUP](with some ^ bbm & sbm)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_action.
     
  8. Rocco

    Rocco Well-Known Member

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    The point is he did not have surgery scheduled in the morning. The OP pointed out the ramifications of a patient having to reschedule surgery so the increase in urgency to get home. That doesn't apply here. I've read that he had surgery scheduled the next day here and other places multiple times. Repeat misinformation enough times and it starts to become a fact that's really an untrue rumor and gets woven into the rationale of why this man urgently needed to keep his seat.
     
  9. emirates1957

    emirates1957 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Gitana1, you make sense to me and I'm sure many others.
     
  10. Rocco

    Rocco Well-Known Member

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    I know you have stated a couple of times that you would be interested in knowing when the flight crew that needed the seats arrived. I found a link that answers your question.

    “There was a Republic crew that needed to take a flight out of Louisville the next day and they sent their crew to get on that plane to Louisville. Somebody at Republic clearly knew they were sending that crew to the gate, but they didn’t get there until after the plane was bordered.”

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/features...ines-incident-former-spirit-airlines-ceo.html
     
  11. Elley Mae

    Elley Mae The enemy is here. beware

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    “In a directive in January, we ordered them to not use the word ‘police.’ To use the word ‘security’ on their jackets,” Evans said.

    But Burke pointedly noted what the videos show: that the word “police” was still on the uniform of at least one officer involved in removing 69-year-old Dr. David Dao off a United Express jet bound for Louisville Sunday evening.

    “Incorrectly,” the commissioner interjected.

    Burke countered, “Your officer was wearing a jacket with the word ‘police’ on it. Why didn’t you enforce your order?”

    http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/after-dao-united-incident-city-will-review-all-airport-policies/
     
  12. drjones

    drjones Former Member

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    i dont think even this will stop people from trying to defend what United did but United just made it a rule that they will never do this again - they will only forcibly remove a passenger from a flight for security or safety reasons from now on. there were 3 or so other things they are going to do to address this but i cant find them in writing yet (i just saw it live on TV). one was more training and one was reviewing their policies for involving security/police in disputes.
     
  13. emirates1957

    emirates1957 Well-Known Member

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    Rocco, it's not that simple, crew can be repositioned in a heart beat....their A/C may have been delayed for many reasons consequently arriving minutes to the flight closing out. At the end of the day deadheading crew will go head and fly 100/200/300 pax to their destination which does not equate/justify offloading 1 passenger.
     
  14. Wyle_E_Coyote

    Wyle_E_Coyote Well-Known Member

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    Really? So a rape victim's past sexual history is relevant? Or a mugging victim's habit of walking late at night? If a prostitute is murdered her history of arrests is relevant?

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  15. JanetElaine

    JanetElaine Well-Known Member

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    That article is well worth the read.

    I also found this part interesting: "Redding also revealed that it is not the city’s policy to “interfere” when airlines have customer service issues." (BBM, and Redding is the security chief at O'Hare airport).

    That's exactly what this was - a customer service issue. And the United crew called the cops or security or whatever their name is to solve it. Such poor judgment. And now they have a PR nightmare on their hands (and more).
     
  16. Karinna

    Karinna Well-Known Member

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    (quote)
    United, like all airlines, has protocol in place for overbooking incidents, said Mahany. Under United’s Rule 25: Denied Boarding Compensation, the airline lays out its responsibilities in dealing with an overbooked flight, but the rule deals only with passengers who have not yet boarded the plane.

    Per these rules, the company would have had to deny entry to the passenger before, not after, he boarded the plane. In order to require someone to leave the plane who is already seated, Mahany said, they would need to provide a lawful reason.
    “If they’re not dressed appropriately, if they have certain communicable diseases, if they’re drunk, if they’re violent, you can remove them,” he said. “If they don’t turn off their cell phone when they’re supposed to, you can remove them. If they won’t obey lawful instructions from a crew member, you can remove them. But telling someone, ‘Hey, we’ve overbooked, get off the plane,’ that wouldn’t be a lawful instruction.”

    LawNewz, a website run by legal correspondent Dan Abrams, agreed that the company acted illegally when it forced the passenger to de-plane. The Department of Transportation's Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings said in a statement Tuesday that it had begun reviewing what happened on the flight.
    http://www.ibtimes.com/united-airli...ane-was-illegal-says-lawyer-heres-why-2524701
     
  17. Karinna

    Karinna Well-Known Member

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    (quote)
    This might sound like it’s coming from left field, but what I’m sensing here — what lies at the root of this unfortunate episode — was a lack of empowerment. There is no reason that an overbooked flight should result in the forced, physical removal of a passenger by law enforcement. There had to be a better solution. Yet nobody came up with one. Why?

    Not all flights are routinely overbooked, and for those that are, it’s done in accordance with tracked data that predicts how many people with reservations are actually going to show up. Once in a while, for any number of reasons, those predictions are off, and there are more passengers than seats. When this happens, somebody, one way or the other, has to give up his or her seat. Who that person is will vary with a somewhat complicated seating hierarchy (when you bought your ticket, when you checked in, etc., are among the variables). To avoid it coming to this, carriers will offer a reward, usually in the form of a travel voucher, in exchange for a seat, and usually with the guarantee of a seat on a flight later that day. The value of the reward is incrementally increased until somebody takes the bait. Almost always they find enough volunteers.
    http://www.askthepilot.com/passenger-forcibly-removed/
     
  18. Wyle_E_Coyote

    Wyle_E_Coyote Well-Known Member

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    I see what you're saying... but... then might makes right and bullies win.



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  19. Hiandmighty

    Hiandmighty Well-Known Member

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    When I pointed this out yesteday on a different discussion elsewhere, I was told to F-off

    United did not have a right to do any of it
     
  20. Hiandmighty

    Hiandmighty Well-Known Member

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    I have to admit I thought the discussions about his "relevant" past and how "if he only would have"... dangerously close to... if that college girl hadn't gotten drunk and walked around alone, she wouldn't have fallen prey to that serial killer...

    He is a victim whether you like him or not
     

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