Manorville Bodies: A Second Killer? Latest Remains found 02/17/2012

Discussion in 'LISK Unidentified Victims' started by Seaslug44, May 9, 2011.

  1. LindsayLohan6

    LindsayLohan6 Former Member

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    insane they both from Mastic Beach
     
  2. LindsayLohan6

    LindsayLohan6 Former Member

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    IDENTITY SOUGHT
    FOR SKELETONIZED HUMAN REMAINS
    Agency: East Hampton Town Police Department
    Contact Person:
    D
    /
    Lieuten
    an
    t
    Christopher Anderson
    Telephone: (631) 537
    -
    6989
    VICTIM INFORMATION
    Region of Activity:
    Long Island and coastal areas from Delaware to
    Massachusetts
    Date of Discovery:
    December 24, 1999
    Location of Discovery:
    Ocean Beach, 1 Mile west of Montauk Point, Montauk, N.Y.
    Status:
    Deceased, Unidentified
    Sex:
    Male
    Appropriate Age:
    30
    -
    40 years
    Approximate Height:
    5ft 7 inches to 6 ft 1 inch
    Ap
    proximate Weight:
    Unknown
    Hair:
    Unknown
    Remarks: The Skeletonized remains of the victim were found to be wearing: 1) black denim pants; 2)
    Multi colored, striped, brief style underwear (red, yellow and blue vertical stripes); 3) One Nike
    basketball sneak
    er (black and white).
    The East Hampton Town Police Department Detective Division is investigating the death, and
    attempting to identify the mummified/skeletonized remains, of an unidentified white male (possibly
    Hispanic). On December 24, 1999, at approxi
    mately 1:00 PM the East Hampton Town Police responded
    to a report of a body on the beach west of the Montauk Point Lighthouse. The responding Officer
    discovered the remains lodged in the rocks in an area called Cavett's Cove.
    The investigation, and a subs
    equen
    t forensic anthropological analysis revealed that the remains of this
    individual were fully intact, missing no skeletal elements. The remains of this individual further revealed
    that there was a well
    -
    healed fracture of the right third proximal hand ph
    alange with 3 small surgical
    s
    crews present in the bone. Additio
    nally, there was evidence of extreme scoliosis of the vertebral
    column with significant curvature to the right. A stainless steel rod had been mounted to support the
    vertebral column, which ap
    pears to have been in place for a significant period of time. Anyone with
    information regarding identity of this subject should notify:
    D/
    L
    ieutenan
    t Christopher Anderson, Commanding Officer, Detective Division
    http://www.ehamptonny.gov/DocumentsPDF/Police/InformationWanted.pdf
     
  3. LindsayLohan6

    LindsayLohan6 Former Member

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    Maybe the wolf hill man had a bathing suit because he was coming back from the hamptons (perhaps his body was actually six months old). Maybe Jane Doe and Jessica Taylor were actually dumped either going to or coming back from the hamptons, since that exit is right on the way there
     
  4. LindsayLohan6

    LindsayLohan6 Former Member

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    "Over the years, he’s enjoyed walking the beach, riding, sitting by the fire and fishing, he said. Harrison Tweed, the prior owner, taught Mr. Cavett how to surf cast on the property’s beach when he was 91, “and quite well,” Mr. Cavett said.

    That beach came to be known as Cavett’s Cove and became popular as a surf spot with a relaxed attitude toward sunbathing and swimming attire." http://www.27east.com/news/article.cfm/Montauk/195816/Dick-Cavetts-tells-tales-of-his-dream-castle

    Surfing? Surfers sometimes run through the beach side of Ocean Parkway brush to get to the water
     
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  5. Aleph

    Aleph New Member

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    Yes. It made me think that the killer placed her body with the intention to shock whoever found it. An afterthought, perhaps, since none of the other bodies were placed this way.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  6. Aleph

    Aleph New Member

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    Lindsay, as usual, your thinking on this case is outstanding. Thank you for your contributions.

    My thought: surgical patients may = people who became addicted to opiates during the healing process. Why were they not missed? Drug addicts, marginalized, homeless. They may have been prostitutes as well. The john may have a swimming pool. (Those summer months again...)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  7. LindsayLohan6

    LindsayLohan6 Former Member

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    "The modus operandi of a killer is only the combination of those actions that are necessary to commit the murder. Because it can change, simply saying that the homicides can’t be related because there are different modi operandi in a number of cases otherwise related by time, place, or area is foolishness" Keppel, Riverman

    "Fitzpatrick and the homicide department are not considering the possibility of a connection between the cases, including the chance of a serial killer roaming the South Shore." (2002)

    Snippet from 4 Bodies Leave Hamlet On Edge

    By JULIA C. MEAD DEC. 14, 2003 NYTIMES:

    On Nov. 19, 2000, three hunters walking in the woods about a half-mile west of Halsey Manor Road, north of the Long Island Expressway, discovered plastic trash bags containing human remains. They were later determined to be those of a female who died several weeks before. She was nude, her body was chopped into pieces and her head, hands and right foot were missing. A forensic exam determined she was a brunette, white or Hispanic, no more than 5-foot-5 or 125 pounds, and between 35 and 40 years old.

    Four days later, hunters found a second body just inside the tree line on the south side of the expressway between exits 68 and 69. That body was male, intact and clothed. Crushed neck bones were ''not accidental,'' Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said. The victim had been dead for about three weeks, was white or Hispanic, 20 to 30 years old, about 5-foot-6 and 130 to 150 pounds, and had black hair, he said. (https://identifyus.org/cases/full_report/2725)

    On July 26, 2003, a woman walking her dog, again near Halsey Manor Road and the expressway, found a second female body -- also white or Hispanic, no taller than 5-foot-5 and under 125 pounds -- an estimated week after she died. She was between 20 and 30 years old. Unlike the first female body, this one was left in the open, on a paved access road to a sump. But like the first female, this victim was nude, decapitated and had her hands chopped off. Detectives later released photos of part of a wing tattoo near her right kidney and a purple and silver decal on one of her toenails.

    On Nov. 10, mushroom pickers found the body of a male, intact but in an advanced stage of decomposition. Like the first male, this one was also dumped just south of the expressway, but 11 miles east of the first. The victim was Caucasian, 35 to 50 years old, about 5-foot-6 and had died up to four months earlier. (https://identifyus.org/en/cases/full_report/13094)

    The math on those dates

    Nov 19 - 2.5 weeks = Nov 2
    Nov 23 - 3 weeks = Nov 2
    July 26 - 1 week = July 19
    Nov 10 - 4 months = July 10

    In order for the male victims to be unrelated, one would have to accept that two separate killers chose to dump their victims extremely close together within days of each other in November 2000. Then 3 years later in July 2003 two killers again chose to dump their victims in Manorville within days of each other. This is an absurd theory in my opinion. It is clear these murders are the work of one killer or at the very least related. We know Jessica Taylor was a sex worker and we have been told by the police that they assume Jane Doe was a sex worker from NY as well. The question is who are the males? The 2000 male : "The man™s body, described as white or Hispanic, five-and-a-half to six feet tall, 130-150 pounds, with a surgical staple imbedded in his chin, was disrobed of all clothing save a pair of Gap boxer shorts. He was later revealed to have been a victim of strangulation."

    Hunter's found Jane Doe on Nov 19, and then hunter's found John Doe 4 days later. So they were clearly dumped in areas only frequented by hunters. "hunters found a second body just inside the tree line on the south side of the expressway between exits 68 and 69. That body was male, intact and clothed. Crushed neck bones were ''not accidental,'"

    But there is a discrepancy here. Was the man clothed, or was he only wearing underwear? The namus says partially clothed but only lists the underwear a pair of gap boxers. I feel that the strangulation and the underwear indicate a sexual element to the homicide. So where did this man come from? Was this man a male prostitute who was picked up in NYC like Jane Doe probably was? Was he a trans prostitute...If so, then why would he be wearing gap boxers? Was he a hispanic male, living in the closet who went out to a gay cruising hot spot for sex met the killer and never came back? If a serial killer was picking victims this way, it would be quite risky to guess who would had a family and who would be reported missing. We have often wondered if this man was picked up at a crusiing spot rest stop along the LIE, which one was it? I believe I now can guess if this was the case. But let's look at John Doe 2003 first.

    "A mushroom hunter yesterday led police to a nude body buried under a tangle of leaves and branches off the Long Island Expressway – not far from a heavily wooded area where the bodies of two nude, headless and handless women were found dumped....
    He led cops to the corpse in dense woods just west of the Edwards Avenue exit of the LIE, yesterday morning......The mushroom hunter told The Post he thought the victim was a girl “because the feet were small.” He said he also didn’t see any fingers on the body, but thought they may have been buried under the brush. " NYPOST

    The small feet comment leads us to consider the possibility that this male could have been dressing as a female like asian male. But if he was a prostitute, or even a vagrant he would likely have some arrest record. Were the fingers chopped off? This would be an easy way to prevent id without going through the trouble of dismemberment.

    Now way back in this thread I found an old post by seaslug about a man who found stabbed to death in the woods in Calverton. Here is a snippet "The body, stabbed repeatedly, was found in an area of pine barrens behind a rest area on Route 24, between the Long Island Expressway and the county jail. The body was covered with leaves and debris, and McElhone said that it was apparently a deliberate attempt to bury the body. He added that the body had been there too long for police to be able to tell if there had been a struggle. He said that because Johnson was a large man - over six feet and 200 pounds - and the body was found more than a quarter mile from the road, it was likely that the murder was committed at the scene. The badly decomposed body was identified with the help of dental records.

    According to police the rest area was a well-known rendezvous area for homosexuals and a friend of Johnson's told them that Johnson frequented the area. Police from the missing persons unit posted fliers at the spot after Johnson's disappearance. They also were seeking information about a man he reportedly met in a Riverhead restaurant on the day he disappeared. The man has not been found."

    Now Edwards ave exit off the LIE is where Route 24 begins, meaning these bodies were actually both found quite near to each right in the same stretch of woods south of Route 24. The 03 male was found near Toppings Path while Johnson who was stabbed in 1988 was found " found near several trails in the woods, one-quarter to one-half mile east of the rest stop on the east side of Route 24, just north of the Southampton-Brookhaven town line." The significant part is, that a rest area right near where John Doe 03 was found is a cruising spot. Can anyone tell exactly where this rest area is on the map? There are no streets between Toppings Path and the entrance to the Shooting Range. Hopefully someone who nows this area can tell us exactly where the rest area is, as I believe it could be a likely murder location for John Doe 2003 and possibly 2000.

    There is a fifth victim mentioned in the original times article. "Lieutenant Fitzpatrick said the head was found at Twin Ponds in Center Moriches, about 10 miles southwest of the fourth Manorville body" This belonged to Andre Jamal Isaac who was known as Sugar Bear. Now, it is important to find out where the bags containing Andre's limbs was found. It says miles away from the head but that's all. Closer to Manorville? " The victim’s arms and legs were later found miles away in plastic bags. It took Suffolk detectives almost a year and a half to identify the victim as Andre Jamal Isaac, 25, of East New York, the grandson of a Vietnam POW.DNA tests linked the body parts to a torso found clad in a skirt, black body suit and tank top in Far Rockaway, Queens, in December 2002. "nypost

    Andre was last seen in East New York getting to a red bmw with flashy rims driven by a hispanic male in November 2002. Andre's friend said the man was Andre's "secret friend" which is slang in the gay community for someone who likes the company of men or trans individuals but are still in the closet. Sounds like the same type of individual who would be visiting late night cruising spots. Sugar bear goes missing from East New York and his head ends up way out in Moriches but his torso on the barrier island of Far Rockaway. Did the killer drive from Brooklyn to dump the body parts and make a loop? Here is key question, where was Sugar Bear killed and dismembered?

    I believe he was killed/dismembered in an abandoned building in East New York. First off, Sugar bear had a gunshot wound to the head, which doesn't fit with the LISK's strangulation signature, but he was also a big dude and it's possible SK was unable to overpower him.

    758UFNY.jpg
    On Feb 20 2002, East New York, Brooklyn......"

    Workers clearing out an abandoned building in East New York, Brooklyn, found a rotting skull and hands in a refrigerator yesterday, police said. And in an apparently unrelated case, a faceless body belonging to a man in his 20s was discovered in another East New York building, police said. The first discovery was made at 11 a.m. inside 2743 Fulton St. when a crew hired by a bank that had foreclosed on the property was cleaning out the building. In addition to the skull and hands, believed to have been decomposing for about two months, additional bones were located in the building's basement, a police source said. At 647 Belmont Ave., the corpse of a man left under a mattress was found by a drug user hanging out in the abandoned building. The body's face had been hacked off, apparently with a bloody machete left nearby, the source said. There was no immediate word on the identities of the victims or any suspects. Cops said that drug addicts had been known to use both buildings.
    Daily News

    Here is the namus report for the female, you can even see the jewelry https://identifyus.org/cases/full_report/5764 There is none for the male however. Was he identified? I believe this two were destined for manorville. Notice exactly the same parts removed from Jessica Taylor and Jane Doe are removed from this girl and kept in the fridge. Was the killer planning to leave these bodies/parts here or was he planning to bring them out to LI? Was the female dismembered in the abandoned house, it sounds like she was dismembered in the basement, which is the perfect place. Especially when your hunting ground is located within a square mile or so......

    But before I move on, I want to direct your attention to a human bone that was found 5 days before these two on a road called Halsey Neck Rd South Hampton. Strangely similar to Halsey Manor Rd isnt it?
    Between Road D and Halsey Neck
    Address 2
    City South Hampton
    State New York
    Zip code 11968
    County Suffolk
    Circumstances
    Bone found on beach
    https://identifyus.org/cases/full_report/7879

    2202 Linden Blvd Dec 5 2001. Here is another case from East New York where the victim has been dismembered and his head and hands were never recovered. So it's the same MO as Jane Doe, Jessica Taylor, etc.

    "Unidentified Black Male

    * The victim was discovered on December 5, 2001 in Brooklyn, Kings County, New York.
    * Estimated Date of Death: 2001.
    * State of Remains: Not recognizable - Partial remains with soft tissues.
    * Cause of Death: Unknown.

    Vital Statistics

    * Estimated age: 20-40 years old.
    * Approximate Height and Weight: 160 lbs. and height unknown.
    * Distinguishing Characteristics: Unknown hair and eye color.
    * Marks, scars: 2 scars on the left shoulder; 2 scars on the left leg.
    * Clothing: None.
    * Dentals: Not available.
    * DNA: mtDNA and nucDNA available at FBI NMPDD.
    * Fingerprints: Not available.

    Case History
    The victim was found in a garbage bag mixed in with the other bags labeled from the housing project located at 2202 Linden Boulevard.

    No head or hands were recovered. The body had been dismembered."
    https://identifyus.org/cases/full_report/6004

    March 13, 2013 "The skeletal remains of a woman found stuffed into a charred suitcase in a burned-out Brooklyn building nearly two years ago have finally been identified.
    Erica McDaniel, 30, was identified through DNA testing, police said yesterday.
    McDaniel’s badly decomposed body was discovered inside 174 Hull Street in Bedford-Stuyvesant on March 23, 2013." http://theweeklychallenger.com/rema...rooklyn-building-is-30-year-old-kansas-woman/

    Tanya Rush lived and disappeared from 345 Livonia Ave, Brooklyn, NY. Flier

    Jessica Taylor was found on July 26, 2003; On July 30, 2003.....A man whose headless and legless torso was found inside a suitcase in Chinatown on June 30 has been identified as a Queens cook who was on his way to a Connecticut casino when he vanished last month, police said yesterday. Yang Jun Zhang, 45, of Flushing, Queens, was identified through fingerprints after police were contacted by his live-in girlfriend this month....

    A dismembered body found in a suitcase on a Chinatown street last month was identified yesterday as that of an unemployed cook who had lived in Queens, the police said. The cook, Yang Jun Zhang, 46, had been decapitated and his legs had been cut off, the police said. His body was stuffed into a large black suitcase. Mr. Yang came from Liaoning Province in China, according to Ken Fan, 29, whose family rented a room in their home on 41st Road in Flushing, Queens, to Mr. Yang. The suitcase containing the body was discovered at 2 a.m. on June 30 by homeless men at the corner of Forsyth Street and East Broadway.

    Here's another body that was found on Feb 15 but in 2012 and about 5 blocks from where Tanya Rush lived at 345 Livonia.
    "A woman’s body was found Wednesday afternoon stuffed in a black laundry bag that had been left in a vacant lot in Brownsville, Brooklyn, the police said.

    The woman, whose identity and cause of death were not immediately known, looked to be in her 40s, the authorities said.

    The body had been left among weeds, tires and trash at the corner of Lott Avenue and Bristol Street, just steps from the sidewalk. It appeared that the body had not been there long before it was found about 12:30 p.m., the police said." Times

    Meanwhile in Manorville.....on Feb 17 2012.....someone found the body of a male 100 feet north of North Rd & Wading River. "The remains, Mr. Samuel said, appeared to be wrapped in a bed sheet, wrapped in a plastic garbage bag, and tied with duct tape. Weeds and leaves had buried most of the remains. “It looked pretty bush league, how they did it,” Mr. Samuel said. Police couldn’t confirm if the body had been wrapped or tied with duct tape. http://riverheadnewsreview.timesrev...w-remains-found-in-wooded-area-in-manorville/

    This body had a blueberry bush growing through it and it's said to have been there 5 plus years.

    Obviously not all these bodies have clear connections to Manorville, but I believe they may be all the work of the same "Torso Killer" or the Butcher of Manorville. I believe many of the unidentified remains were individuals who were hunted and killed/dismembered in East New York. I believe the killer may use drugs to lure the victims to abandoned buildings where he kills or dismembers them. It may take him lots of planning and time to find the proper locations needed for the dismemberment. The manorville males could be sex workers from Brooklyn, or they could be men the SK met at cruising sites off the LIE near Route 24. One thing is for sure, I do believe the SK is bisexual. Here s a map of some points of interest. Something worth noting is that...although I know Sugar Bear went missing from East New York where he lived at the time....I do not have the address and we need this to further complete the geo-profile. I believe that Khalil White is also from East New York, and although I have two possible streets i haven't included them. So imagine another relevant pin. The address of Akeem Cruz 295 cozine is included to show proximity especially to the dismembered male from Linden 2001.

    BKhuntingground.jpg


    345 Livonia Avenue Tanya Rush 2008
    674 Belmont Male Feb 20 02
    2743 Fulton Dismembered Black Female Feb 20 02
    174 Hull St Erica McDaniel
    Bristol & Lott Female in laundry sack Feb 15 2012
    2202 Linden Boulevard Dismembered male garbage bags Dec 5 2001
    295 Cozine Ave Akeem Cruz

    New members, please read through the entire thread before posting!
     
  8. GINK

    GINK New Member

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    golf, wrapped, dumped by waterways Manorville, gilgo timeline long island serial killer stops and Ohio town serial killings begin,,,same mo, but uses big plastic bags.. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ohio-town-fears-serial-killer-loose-article-1.2269997.
    golfer, le maybe sheriff dept of corrections, womens facility though he hires them often, he likely lives near golf course as he plays, lives alone likely apt complex/white mid 50s strong avoids socializing people in his living area may use fake name socially, avoids attention
     
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  9. redall

    redall New Member

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    I believe that there has always been two people involved in every single murder attached to LISK and the Manorville butcher!!
    I believe it is a man an a woman working together.I believe if any at all, he has more remorse (wrapping in burlap)
    She did not like this "so called attention" or "caring" if you will.
    That is why the MO has changed to ,torture, dismemberment,plastic bags ,plastic,containers and spreading the body parts into different places. Cheap and considered garbage. I believe the only reason some were found with the first four found ,wrapped in burlap is because SHE was saying; "this is still MY home.I'll do what I want!!As a game for them (her)the killing was not enough any more.
    torture , sadism , and dismembering were added to increase pleasure.
    He is an impitent weakling who can not please her. Yet he is afraid of her.And in some sick way he loves her..She is purely a sadistic psychopath. No feelings of remorse. Not capable. Probably raped and beaten as a child by Daddy and maybe brothers as well. Mom did nothing to help.I just saw 2 episodes of the kkilling season , based on Gilgo Beach ect only 2 days ago.
    Was touched very deeply and will do anything I can to help.
    Have much more.
    LISKS beware. I am close.
     
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  10. kat913

    kat913 Well-Known Member

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  11. Ktsleuth

    Ktsleuth New Member

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  12. Tora Gahan

    Tora Gahan Member

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    I was driving around Manorville today and got to thinking About this case again. I have a random question and I don't mean "the killer knows/was the last to see, etc." in cases like this, how do we know a victim was last seen somewhere, or frequented a certain area? I.E. Jessica was known to frequent Port Authority area, but how do we know that? Did an acquaintance assist LE? Also...I wonder how many of these victims were ID'd. Was photo ID on them? Ok we know Jessica was nude and dismembered, and was estranged from her family...but these little details pop up sometimes. just my random thoughts.
     
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  13. twocuriouscats

    twocuriouscats Searching for Killer Owls

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    Hi Tora,
    In Jessica's case I'm not sure where LE (law enforcement) got the info that she was seen near Port authority. A few years into the investigation a man went public - said he was her pimp, and that she was actually last seen in Queens. Can't remember his name - you can google JT (Jessica Taylor) and pimp...you will find more...Welcome!
    She had a tattoo (Remy's Angel) which a detective remembered - that's how she was id'd, although LISK tried to erase it. The pimp claimed he was "Remy" but that wasn't his real name and he admitted it in the media interviews I saw him do.
     
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  14. VoiceForMissing2502

    VoiceForMissing2502 New Member

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    Hi All - So from the above post it is quite possible that the Pimp aka Remy may in fact know and have met LISK on more than one occasion. If so why would he not want to tell this information to get him off the streets and away from those of the women he is trafficking. No disrespect meant to the victims but if Lisk is known to him and he may have an idea it may in fact be him then it makes sense he'd want Lisk off the streets or away from his girls because the more access he has to them the possibilities that he was and is BAD for his business and his $$$ in his pockets. Generally just from the what I've read online it seems to me too that he is a creature of habit with his routines and rituals he has done with the victims. I don't see him getting too far off track or going from one city or area that he has done his diligence with researching before these crimes are committed. I am not so sure that he is not stalking some of these victims or like I mentioned before befriending them on a very casual level. Something that has struck me in these posts and what I've read in other sources what it is about November that seems to almost "Trigger" him? It seems he gets a bit more erratic and in some cases almost frenzied with the victims that are chosen in November. There has to be some connection to the month. I have not researched it enough to know if in November if he is striking on the same days in November much like other Serial Killers. Thoughts on this?
     
  15. VoiceForMissing2502

    VoiceForMissing2502 New Member

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    Reading above comments what about Bath Houses? I know they are a more International custom but with much Illegal activity I am sure there are also Bath Houses that are legal but just called something else? Men's Club, Trophy Club or some type of Society that requires hush hush membership for the type of activities and/or fetishes that he may well have. I would think that if prostitutes could be found in CL or another source then it would be no problem to find a type of Business that caters to male clients that may be fronting as Spa's or may be in fact set up as a Spa with benefits to members. We all know that from what we've been smart enough to figure out is that on the Dark Web that anyone can find just about anything they are looking for regardless of what or WHO that might be for whatever DARK purposes they seek to fulfill.
     
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