Manorville John Doe, NamUS 2725

Discussion in 'LISK Unidentified Victims' started by bessie, Jan 20, 2017.

  1. WesternArtist

    WesternArtist Active Member

    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I've been searching for potential matches for this 2000 Manorville John Doe and it's really challenging. Since we don't have a sketch I focused on individuals who went missing under circumstances that could fit -disappeared after being released from jail, homeless/transient, estranged from family or little contact (and who had fit the general demographics and timeline, although few are Hispanic). What I came up with is sort of a mix of individuals with few who went missing really close by geographically. Since there's several unidentified males found in this same area in a fairly short timeline perhaps one of these could match one of the unidentified:

    Lonnie Michael Rodriguez http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/rodriguez_lonnie.html Missing from Tampa in 1998 after being released from jail. IMO he resembles the Dix Hills John Doe http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/681umny.html but has much better teeth -could that amount of decay occur in two years? Meth?

    Stephen DeWayne Talley http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/talley_stephen.html Disappeared from Lovingston, VA in 2000 while hitchhiking. May grow his hair long or shave his head, surgical scar on top of head.

    Kenneth Dale Batchelor https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/34152/6 Last known contact was with Salt Lake City Police in 2000. Transient, known to travel to Oklahoma, Arizona, Utah, and California and frequent homeless shelters. Many previous injuries/scars: Prior fractured ribs, leg, and arm as well as a prior injury to his nose, scar on left finger.

    Dana Olson https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/8047/80 Missing from Bradenton, FL in 1998 (reported missing by family in New York). Deformed leg from traffic crash.

    Bruce Allan Longley http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/longley_bruce.html Missing from Chattanooga, TN in 1997. He was having personal and health problems at the time and told a family member "he was leaving and no one would ever see him again."

    Waldyslaw Szczypta http://ilcoldcases.blogspot.com/2016/06/missing-for-20-years-wladyslaw-szczypta.html Missing from the Chicago area since 1996. Had a drinking problem at the time.

    Randall Sirrine Clark https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/21239/47 https://www.colorado.gov/apps/coldcase/casedetail.html?id=310003 Missing from Denver since 1996. Homeless and had "metal problems."
     


  2. coffeeandacig

    coffeeandacig ...

    Messages:
    1,653
    Likes Received:
    7,540
    Trophy Points:
    113

    What do you think of this guy for Manorville 2000 "New Jersey t" John Doe? Matthew Glen Anderson, missing since June 1996 Roseville, California 5' 9" 165 lbs. "Known to wear makeup" Took $400 out of his checking account before going missing.

    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/4452/6

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/anderson_matthew.htm

    l
    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  3. PictureSnatcher

    PictureSnatcher Former Member

    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What do I think? I don't know I mean there isn't really much to say. He disappeared from California 4 years before, is developmentally disabled and left with only 400 dollars. Is he possible? Yes any suggestion pre 2000 is possible, but is he probable? Not really

    But what is Manorville "new jersey t" John Doe?
     
  4. coffeeandacig

    coffeeandacig ...

    Messages:
    1,653
    Likes Received:
    7,540
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thanks for your opinion. I wanted to know what others thought of the possibility. Manorville 2000 "New Jersey t" is just a reference that I keep on my files, based on the items that he was wearing. Sorry for any confusion that may have generated.
     
  5. PictureSnatcher

    PictureSnatcher Former Member

    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    sounds like you are mixed up. John Doe 2000 Manorville was wearing only boxers and socks
     
  6. PictureSnatcher

    PictureSnatcher Former Member

    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I believe you are confusing the AC shirt Wolf Hill Rd man was wearing with this John Doe btw. He was found in 2000 but not in Manorville
     
  7. DQN

    DQN Former Member

    Messages:
    573
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Hi Western,

    I would rule this guy out, seemed like a nasty drunk and probably got into a fight with someone that killed him the area , or he died in a drunken stupor some where unknown, I do see this guy finding his way to NY.

    Waldyslaw Szczypta http://ilcoldcases.blogspot.com/2016...-szczypta.html Missing from the Chicago area since 1996. Had a drinking problem at the time.
     
  8. WesternArtist

    WesternArtist Active Member

    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Thanks DQN I was hoping to narrow down this list and that both helps and makes a lot of sense!
     
  9. WesternArtist

    WesternArtist Active Member

    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    28
    His height is a better match than Lonnie Rodriguez. I wish there were a picture where we could see his teeth. (I was referring to this John Doe as Dix Hills John Doe earlier but just sort of made that up for my own purposes.)
     
  10. DaisyChains

    DaisyChains Active Member

    Messages:
    682
    Likes Received:
    260
    Trophy Points:
    43
    So was his cause of death strangulation?

    If so it makes me wonder if the motivation for this crime was sexual. Strangulation is a very personal (intimate?) way to kill someone. The victim not really being dressed makes me think either he had been sexually abused and strangled while basically naked OR that his clothes would have given too big of a clue to his identity.

    I wonder if the victim was in a specific line of work his clothes would have helped clue investigators into (construction or landscaping) OR maybe the killer didn't want anyone thinking he was with a crossdresser and put a piece of menswear with the body.

    I hate saying this, but if this John Doe had issue opening his mouth properly and was involved in some form of prostitution, perhaps this effected his ability to "perform" and this enraged the John as he felt he was not getting the service he paid for? OR even could anger a pimp who would see the victim as "useless"? A jaw injury kind of effects a sex worker's efficiency. And if the killer were worried about contracting an STD he might have not wanted to have full intercourse with the victim.

    IF the victim was a cross dresser or sex worker (which nothing he was found with indicated he dressed as a woman or lived a high risk lifestyle as a prostitute).
     
  11. WesternArtist

    WesternArtist Active Member

    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    28
    IMO this theory about compromised performance in oral sex because of an injury is a very good theory. It reminds me of what happened with Robert Lee Yates' surviving victim Christine Smith, although Yates shot his victims:

    http://murderpedia.org/male.Y/y/yates-robert-lee.htm
    "Smith had agreed to perform oral sex for $40 in the back of Yates' van in a secluded parking lot in Spokane on Aug. 1, 1998. According to Smith, Yates was driving a black van with a bed and mattress in the back. Smith asked Yates if he was the "psycho killer." that had been killing prostitutes at the time, Yates responded by saying "he was not the killer because he had five kids and would not do that."
    After several minutes when Smith had failed at arousing Yates with oral sex Yates shot her in the head - (Smith had thought she had been hit rather than shot), nearly causing her to lose consciousness however Smith struggled to stay awake and keep her wits about her as she fell backwards. Luckily the bullet had only scraped the side of her face. Smith did not know she had been shot until a later x-ray showed fragments in her face and skull."


    It's also sort of similar to Lee Anne's story about Burke in the failure to arouse followed by violence.
     
  12. WesternArtist

    WesternArtist Active Member

    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    28

    Attached Files:

  13. WesternArtist

    WesternArtist Active Member

    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    28
    How about Carlos A. Cedeno (as a possible match for the 2000 Manorville John Doe https://www.identifyus.org/en/cases/2725)? http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/4228dmnj.html He went missing from West New York, New Jersey in June 1999. There isn't any smoking gun like a jaw injury. I'm thinking since he went missing nearby around the time and fits the height (although he is a little heavier than the weight estimated from the article, not the 112 NamUs lists) he could be a match. Since this case is so challenging I'm reading between the lines more. This guy was reporting missing by his mom -maybe he lived with her. Also, it doesn't say anything about not showing up for work so maybe he was unemployed which could make him more at risk. I know -reaching there.

    If he doesn't seem like a strong match for the Manorville John Doe, maybe he's a match for this UID https://www.identifyus.org/en/cases/6073 found in the trunk of an impounded Lumina in Brooklyn in August, 2000.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  14. WesternArtist

    WesternArtist Active Member

    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    28
    [​IMG] How about Augustine John Dellea. There is something about his jaw that appears as though he could have had a previous injury there (although that isn't specifically listed for him). He went missing from California in 1998 and is taller but the weight and age are in range for the 2000 Manorville John Doe. He has previous addresses listed in East Nassau, NY, Eaton, NY, and Easton, NY as well as CA. Could he have made it back to NY (but been down in the city or on LI) and been reported missing in CA? http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/dellea_augustine.html
     

    Attached Files:

  15. u01mpk

    u01mpk New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Back in 2003 I took an interest in this case before anyone acknowledged there may be a serial killer on Long Island. Myself, a native long islander was working as a private investigator and was in the midst of developing software to predict behavior and patterns of offenders in the retail environment, I was actually looking to write software that would predict and profile people most likely to steal from their employers. This lead to me teaching myself everything I could about criminal profiling and serial homicide.

    In no way am i professionally qualified nor claim to be a profiler. Since I live on Long Island it was about this time that news articles appeared about a torso being found in Manorville, now known as Jessica Taylor. A couple years before that another torso was found in Manorville as we all know. I became fascinated and also frustrated that no alarms were sounded that there was most likely a serial killer operating on Long Island. I sought to search as many news articles and blogs I could find to try and find similar cases and patterns on Long Island. I do remember reading about peaches in 1997 and felt it fit the pattern of LISK with break of two years in between each kill. But I remember reading about Fire Island Jane Doe and thought it may be connected but the pattern was off by a year.

    There are so many twists and wild cards in this case, starting with Shannan Gilbert which I feel is coincidence and not related to LISK. Many people believe James Burke is LISK which I don't believe either. I do believe he is guilty as charged and corrupt and wanted the FBI out of his business to protect his own interests, but I think the idea of him being a serial killer is a far fetched conspiracy.

    Forgive me if I digress but I have so much to get off my chest and have paid attention to this case long before anyone else really noticed. Stay with me because i have a lot of interesting points to offer and ponder. During my research in 2003 I came across a blog from a medical student who was an intern at the Suffolk county medical examiners office and he wrote a short blog about being in the autopsy room when Jessica Taylors body was brought in and he remarked how the Doctor had mentioned that whoever dismembered her knew what they were doing because the marks on the bones appeared to be from a hunters saw and was cut with precision. This gave me the chills because it brings me back to another unsolved homicide on Long Island that occured around 1982 that i found in Newsday archives, Tina Foglia. She was found cut up and dismembered and placed in bags on the side of the Sunken Meadow parkway. Do i believe that the Foglia case could be related to LISK? I would say there is a 80% chance and if the person is ever caught and he is tied to the Foglia case I would not be surprised. 1982 may seem like a long way away from now but it's really not a long period of time from 1996 when Fire Island Jane Doe was found. Could there be others in between we haven't tied to him yet, or could something have happened in LISK's personal life to distract him from killing and take a break during those years? Which also brings me to my next point, Peter Hackett. His lying to SG's mother raises a red flag, but what makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck is one of Tina Foglia's friends mentioning that before she was murdered she wrote in her diary about meeting a doctor shortly before she died but doesn't name him. Coincidence possibly, and considering that Peter Hackett has spoken on TV and has had his voice heard and the victims sister who spoke to LISK didn't recognize his voice gives me doubt.

    I also think of the case of Tanya Rush found dismembered on the side of the parkway in the summer months and I do believe this case is also part of the LISK web. What disturbs me most about this case, especially as a parent is toddler who was later discovered to be daughter of peaches. It is no longer about dead prostitutes when an innocent baby is found in a serial killers dumping ground. I won't second guess law enforcement and assume anything, although I do believe they screwed this case up, but I think finding everything out they can about the infant could be key to solving this case.

    Babies come with a lot of baggage, strollers, diapers, clothing, bottles, etc. Where did peaches live? Did no one notice a mother and baby missing? Was an apartment left behind somewhere with all this baby stuff? She had a C section scar and a unique tattoo and was associated with the CT area. Were the hospitals in the areas canvassed? Shelters canvassed asking if anyone with a baby suddenly left their belongings behind? Abandoned vehicles with a carseat? I find it hard to believe that nobody noticed a mother and baby missing.

    One other thing I want to point out before I relieve you of my long winded rant here is the distance from the roadways that all the bodies seem to be dumped and that is about thirty feet, that is very telling in itself and I think if more areas were searched about thirty feet from the roadway there may be more discoveries made.
     
  16. PictureSnatcher

    PictureSnatcher Former Member

    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have long wondered about locals who had realized there was a serial killer after Jessica Taylor was found and took an interest in solving the case. I was very excited to read your post after that first sentence ha! The hunter's saw with precision is a huge tip. Do you have a copy of that intern's post? Very significant, however with the info you have provided and the number of victims found by hunters tells me the SK is a hunter, not a doctor. Tell me this, in 2003 were you aware of the male victims who were dumped in Manorville? Do you have any articles saved that are no longer available like the interns post? I am very interested in hearing what else you have to say
     
  17. u01mpk

    u01mpk New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I do remember reading about the males dumped or found in the area, and I also remember there was a child's body discovered buried in Manorville around the same time but that case was solved and it turned out to be the parents. There are a lot of coincidences on Long Island. I remember reading about Rita Tangredi, and Theresa Macnamee and wondered if they were connected and years later John Bittrollf was arrested through DNA for those crimes and he lived in Manorville miles away from where JT was dumped. Could he be LISK? I don't know? Im sure the police thought the same thing, or maybe they don't have enough evidence to tie him? I would have to do a deep google search to find that blog post from 2003 from the medical student, i literally came across it by accident and I wish i printed it and saved it, i promise to try and find it again but I can't promise it will still be out there. Many of those blog posts disappear into cyber space. He could be a hunter, but he could also be a doctor and proficient with cutting bone, or he could be a doctor that enjoys hunting as a hobby. I do think a lot more focus should be focused on looking at the Tina Foglia case, I remember reading one of the archived news articles mentioning how her body was cut up with precision. I can't picture her murder being an isolated case and her murder occurred before the internet even existed so there wasn't as much chatter or awareness besides print articles at the time. I was a kid then so i don't recall hearing about it back then.
     
  18. PictureSnatcher

    PictureSnatcher Former Member

    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hope you can find the intern's blog. There is a ton of focus on Tina Foglia because they ran a bunch of news stories about a possible connection to LISK lately. Perhaps, but there is a big gap between 1982 and 1996...a huge gap. Foglia was dismembered with a surgeon's tool. A lot of people like to claim Hackett could be her doctor boyfriend, but was Hackett even in med school in 82? You should check out the thread Forgotten Remains, the first couple posts
     
  19. PictureSnatcher

    PictureSnatcher Former Member

    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    By hunter's saw you mean bow saw, yea? Was there any other info the intern revealed? Would really like to read that post. Bow saw seems typical for dismemberments
     
  20. u01mpk

    u01mpk New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    As a newbie here I haven't had a chance to sift through all the threads yet but I'm anxious to see what others have to say about the connection to Tina Foglia. Yes, 1982 to 1996 is a big gap but then again it's not. As we saw with BTK killer and the Green river killer these guys can take a cooling off period or life can distract them too. Our own John Bittrokf killed in the early 90s and then settled down and got married , started a family and seemed successful and by all appearances normal with no other homicides we know of . I tried to search again for that blog post From the intern with no luck, I'll do my best to look again. The impression I got from reading his blog post was that he/she wasn't too surprised or focused but more observant about how the killer scratched out JTs tattoo and how the doctor remarked how the bone was cut by some type of hunters saw.
     

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice