Max's Search Warrants Released!!!! Discuss Max's Death here #2

[oceanblueeyes]

myBelle, according to articles, she did report the scream:

Linky dink:


http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/rebecca-zahau-witness-heard-screams-went-cops-blown

This was reported twice!

It doesn't say when though.

I would think she would get in contact with Rebecca's family right away after being 'blown off' as she states it.

Now if we find out there was a call placed that night around 11:30 pm when she heard it ......I will take that much more seriously.



IMO

 

[justbetweenus]

She says she approached LE twice about the scream.

Do we know if this person is female?

 

[CDS22]

Bringing some things over from the other thread:

The SW says the doctor "expressed concerns made based on the -- the above factors, suffocation may have occurred prior to Shacknai's fall". (direct quote from page 5 of the third thumbnail in the SW link).

What gets me about that quote is that he specifically says suffocation may have occurred PRIOR to the fall. How could he fall if he were suffocated?

 

[ziggy]

Seems to me with Max's height and the railing height, even if he was running and ran into the dog or ran into anything the natural consequence would be to hit the railing and fall or fall down the stairs, not get lifted into the air and OVER the railing. Defying gravity is not easy; so that's why finding a scenario whereby he is sent over the railing is baffling to me.

 

[jjenny]

Seems to me with Max's height and the railing height, even if he was running and ran into the dog or ran into anything the natural consequence would be to hit the railing and fall or fall down the stairs, not get lifted into the air and OVER the railing. Defying gravity is not easy; so that's why finding a scenario whereby he is sent over the railing is baffling to me.

There is an area where railing dips. Which is where police think he went over.

 

[CDS22]

Seems to me with Max's height and the railing height, even if he was running and ran into the dog or ran into anything the natural consequence would be to hit the railing and fall or fall down the stairs, not get lifted into the air and OVER the railing. Defying gravity is not easy; so that's why finding a scenario whereby he is sent over the railing is baffling to me.

That's what's troubling most of us, particularly with the doctor saying he believes MS was suffocated prior to his fall. (Quote 2 posts above from the SW in thumbnail 3).

 

[greenpalm]

CDS22 asked me:

What's your take on Max's death?

I believe that Maxie's death was an accident. I believe there may have been some horseplay going on on the stairway banister earlier that morning, before the teenaged shacknai's left. I don't doubt that all the minors were horsing around on that railing. I have no real speculation regarding the specifics. I would believe many possibilities, none of them malicious. I'd even believe XZ could have been involved or a witness, but I'd also buy a scenario in which Maxie, having been warned of the dangers, waited until XZ & RZ were both in the bathroom to try his stunt.

I also believe it's possible, even likely that, if DS was already mistrusting of RZ (do we have confirmation of that? I heard DS didn't want Maxie alone with RZ. Anyone verify that?) so, assuming their trust was strained, then DS gets this info from the doc that Maxie might have been suffocated prior to his fall, that would be some wicked motivation to retaliate. Now, in hindsight, we know from the autopsy that the pre-suffocation wasn't true. His spinal cord was damaged without any fractures to his vertebra. But, at the time, if DS or JS thought Maxie's Death was malicious, it certainly could warrant some rage on their part, directed at RZ. I can't imagine how angry I'd be. It's beyond comprehension.

MOO

 

[CDS22]

"Rebecca loved and adored Max as her own son. She often shared stories with us about Jonah's children, especially Little 'Maxie,' " Mary wrote.

http://www.azcentral.com/business/a...girlfriend-mystery-lingers.html#ixzz1YpHSqRau

Kind of strange that now we know the "stories" shared about JS's other two children weren't so pleasant.

Was Shacknai in love with Becky?

Mary hesitates.

“I don’t know. I couldn’t read [them]. I mean, were they affectionate with each other? No, not really. Not in front of us. If I saw them, I probably wouldn’t get that impression. Becky told me that she did love him but that she was disappointed in a lot of ways because he wouldn’t…she was disappointed in his [teenaged] kids, [how] they were allowed to be openly rude to her. Those other two children didn’t want her, period. They resented her. And Jonah would not defend her [against them], stop that. Not really. Not by my impression.”

By this summer, it was coming to a crunch for Rebecca.

“We talked about it; that if the teenaged kids’ behavior doesn’t improve she was considering telling Jonah at the end of this summer that she…needed to have some time to herself.

“I don’t know if she ended up telling him or not.”

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2011/sep/14/citylights2-rebecca-zahau/

 

[CDS22]

CDS22 asked me:

I believe that Maxie's death was an accident. I believe there may have been some horseplay going on on the stairway banister earlier that morning, before the teenaged shacknai's left. I don't doubt that all the minors were horsing around on that railing. I have no real speculation regarding the specifics. I would believe many possibilities, none of them malicious. I'd even believe XZ could have been involved or a witness, but I'd also buy a scenario in which Maxie, having been warned of the dangers, waited until XZ & RZ were both in the bathroom to try his stunt.

I also believe it's possible, even likely that, if DS was already mistrusting of RZ (do we have confirmation of that? I heard DS didn't want Maxie alone with RZ. Anyone verify that?) so, assuming their trust was strained, then DS gets this info from the doc that Maxie might have been suffocated prior to his fall, that would be some wicked motivation to retaliate. Now, in hindsight, we know from the autopsy that the pre-suffocation wasn't true. His spinal cord was damaged without any fractures to his vertebra. But, at the time, if DS or JS thought Maxie's Death was malicious, it certainly could warrant some rage on their part, directed at RZ. I can't imagine how angry I'd be. It's beyond comprehension.

MOO

Thanks for your response.

Do you have any specific theories on how he went over the railing and got fatal whiplash? That's what gets me - how he got his spinal cord unplugged from his brain in a way that typically only happens in a car accident with no seat belt. I can't see him getting enough velocity even if he fell from the railing or jumped. Plus it wouldn't explain his back injuries and the fact that he was found with a scooter on his leg.

 

[SophieRose]

Thanks for your response.

Do you have any specific theories on how he went over the railing and got fatal whiplash? That's what gets me - how he got his spinal cord unplugged from his brain in a way that typically only happens in a car accident with no seat belt. I can't see him getting enough velocity even if he fell from the railing or jumped. Plus it wouldn't explain his back injuries and the fact that he was found with a scooter on his leg.

Plus RZ didn't know if she found him on his stomach or back. If he was on his stomach, did he say "Ocean" into the carpet. Did the scooter fall on him after she rolled him over?

 

[thinkingstraight]

Bringing some things over from the other thread:

The SW says the doctor "expressed concerns made based on the -- the above factors, suffocation may have occurred prior to Shacknai's fall". (direct quote from page 5 of the third thumbnail in the SW link).

What gets me about that quote is that he specifically says suffocation may have occurred PRIOR to the fall. How could he fall if he were suffocated?

You're right! I had to read that a couple of times and now it's all coming to me! An unconscious (presumably dead?) person cannot fall off the stairs on their own (and I'll just throw in they can't say "Ocean" either)

 

[jjenny]

You're right! I had to read that a couple of times and now it's all coming to me! An unconscious (presumably dead?) person cannot fall off the stairs on their own (and I'll just throw in they can't say "Ocean" either)

Max was not an "unconscious" or "dead" when he went over the railing. His cardiac arrest was caused by spinal cord contusion, not suffocation.

 

[thinkingstraight]

Plus RZ didn't know if she found him on his stomach or back. If he was on his stomach, did he say "Ocean" into the carpet. Did the scooter fall on him after she rolled him over?

Didn't she tell the police that he had been warned not to play on his scooter in the house? Wasn't that a little early to start "blaming the victim". I'm not sure if she said this at the time of the accident or later. I hope someone can find a link to that. That's always bothered me.

 

[thinkingstraight]

Max was not an "unconscious" or "dead" when he went over the railing. His cardiac arrest was caused by spinal cord contusion, not suffocation.

Or maybe he just stopped breathing before he suffered the spinal cord contusion. Honestly, I'm not a doctor. I don't know.

 

[CDS22]

Max was not an "unconscious" or "dead" when he went over the railing. His cardiac arrest was caused by spinal cord contusion, not suffocation.

That means he could not have said "Ocean" as Rebecca claims.

 

[CDS22]

Plus RZ didn't know if she found him on his stomach or back. If he was on his stomach, did he say "Ocean" into the carpet. Did the scooter fall on him after she rolled him over?

Interesting that the SW states RZ told them she found MS on his back and turned him over to administer CPR (page 3, thumbnail 3). If that is true, how did the scooter wind up on his leg? Also, did she tell one cop one thing and something quite different to another?

 

[justbetweenus]

Didn't she tell the police that he had been warned not to play on his scooter in the house? Wasn't that a little early to start "blaming the victim". I'm not sure if she said this at the time of the accident or later. I hope someone can find a link to that. That's always bothered me.

Yes you're right she did. It has bothered me too. Also she said (paraphrazing) the last time she had seen the scooter had been a couple days ago (at time of accident) and was upstairs. It is in her statement to police. I can no longer open the docs as I get file damaged. Wish I had of saved them.

ETA: she said that Max was warned not to play with the scooter upstairs.

 

[justbetweenus]

Interesting that the SW states RZ told them she found MS on his back and turned him over to administer CPR (page 3, thumbnail 3). If that is true, how did the scooter wind up on his leg? Also, did she tell one cop one thing and something quite different to another?

Good point!

 

[jjenny]

The idea that RN would want to hurt the child is absurd. The woman quit her job and moved in with a millionaire. Presumably she might have wanted to become a Mrs. S. Hurting the child is not the way to go to achieve that goal. So she has no motive whatsoever to do anything to the child.

 

[CDS22]

Okay, on the list in the SW, thumbnail 3, they say they list a black T-shirt (cut) (that's item 3 on the list). Page 4 says they found the shirt near MS at the scene. So who's shirt was it since MS was wearing a shirt, and how did it get cut? Did someone change him prior to calling the police, or was it XZ's or RZ's? Why would a cut T-shirt be lying next to an injured child with a scooter across his leg and a chandelier at his shoulder?