MD - Cockeysville teen charged in murders of parents, two brothers *Guilty*

[Jeana (DP)]

he is beyond help at this point imo-
15 years old or not- he was not living on the streets-crackhead, roof over his head and honor roll, varisty sports player, eagle scout and member of a church-
imo- someone who is "sick" does not pull this off without a diagnosis of some sort sooner- sounds more to be like a spoiled brat gone bad.....
I dont know.......shaking my head...........

I'm not saying let him out of prison and make him homecoming king. I'm just saying that we don't execute children. Serving his life behind bars should be sufficient.

 

[southcitymom]

we dont know- I agree-- yes- it is jaw dropping- makes me wonder if I should look at my 13 yo over my shoulder, as she could be written about the same way, except age & gender-of course at this point of knowing only what we do- kwim? how can somone who can be so "sane" - be so sick ? scarey
( :blowkiss: scm)

:blowkiss: back to you and I do know what you mean. For some reason - this case has really shaken me. They all get all of us, I know - but some sink in and stay (I don't always know why) and this is one of those for me.

I want to know what everyone else does - didn't someone notice something? This kid seems very normal and even above-average with all the advantages. What happened? I am desparate to know what happened. My boys are 5 and 7 - I'm so looking forward to when they are 11...13...15.

I just think about that Mom and Dad, my age, raising three sons and all that wiped out by a child whose brain isn't even fully developed in the blink of an eye over....some father-son teenage disagreement.

Heartbreaking - I pray for everyone devastated by this - and that includes the 15 year old.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I think if we're looking for the "why" it may be found in the classic overachiever syndrome. I think this kid may have felt as if nothing he did would ever be good enough and he couldn't live up to what his family expected of him.

 

[southcitymom]

I think if we're looking for the "why" it may be found in the classic overachiever syndrome. I think this kid may have felt as if nothing he did would ever be good enough and he couldn't live up to what his family expected of him.

Great point, Jeana. Another thing to think about which surely makes sense in connection with what we do know.

 

[deanws]

Because this "little " is a child. We don't execute children. And, if he is indeed "sick," what he needs is help.

No Jeana, a 15 year old that kills his WHOLE family is not just a child...he is a monster.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

No Jeana, a 15 year old that kills his WHOLE family is not just a child...he is a monster.

Well I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't believe that this kid is any kind of a monster. He didn't remove their eyeballs and scramble them with his morning eggs. That would make him a monster. The kid snapped and killed his family. Wouldn't you think it may be a good idea to try and figure how why? Maybe some other kid is going through the same problems. Maybe if we figured out the "why" we could work on figuring out the solution so that it doesn't happen again.

 

[MeoW333]

I think if we're looking for the "why" it may be found in the classic overachiever syndrome. I think this kid may have felt as if nothing he did would ever be good enough and he couldn't live up to what his family expected of him.

From what we know, it may be the case..
I also have to wonder how much we don't know; as the family was very well thought of in the community; if the son was having problems, would they have kept it secret, as to not destroy their image?
It's just shocking that a 15 year old boy can murder his whole family and then go out afterwards like nothing happened. This is just one of many cases like it. These kids have no preparation for such, they weren't in the military. What is making them cold blooded killers? Where they can kill their families, then go about their lives as if nothing happened until they get caught. Is it just the desensitization of society combined with genetics and environmental causes? This case alone, there seems to be no signs of problems before this with the son (aside from him not getting along with his father)... it's just bizarre..

 

[Reannan]

You know....I am beginning to develop a theory that as a society, we have become too easy on our children. We cater to their every whilm and whimsy. We worry more about their self-esteem than their character. We have cases where children from well-to-do families kill the entire family, and we have cases where men have grown up with nothing, and they stomp the heads of their babies. If that isn't a picture of a world gone insane, I don't want to see the real picture. I can't help but think about the lyrics to Bucky Covington's song "A Different World". I loved Bucky when he was on American Idol last year (don't hi-jack this thread by bashing that show!!!), and when I heard his song, I thought to myself - Dang - he is right on!!!

"A Different World"
We were born to mothers who smoked and drank
Our cribs were covered in lead based paint
No child proof lids no seat belts in cars
Rode bikes with no helmets and still here we are, still here we are
We got daddy's belt when we misbehaved
Had three TV channels you got up to change
No video games and no satellite
All we had were friends and they were outside, playin' outside

[Chorus]
It was a different life
When we were boys and girls
Not just a different time
It was a different world

School always started the same every day
The pledge of allegiance then someone would pray
Not every kid made the team when they tried
We got disappointed and that was all right, we turned out all right

[Chorus]
No bottled water, we drank from a garden hose
And every Sunday, all the stores were closed

......I highlighted in bold font the words that screamed out to me from Bucky's song in terms of a lot of the crimes we discuss. Have we, as a society, created a beast that is so mindful and impressed with his/her self that the rest of the world is disposable?? Has character and empathy taken a backseat to self-esteem and self-centerdness??

 

[southcitymom]

You know....I am beginning to develop a theory that as a society, we have become too easy on our children. We cater to their every whilm and whimsy. We worry more about their self-esteem than their character. We have cases where children from well-to-do families kill the entire family, and we have cases where men have grown up with nothing, and they stomp the heads of their babies. If that isn't a picture of a world gone insane, I don't want to see the real picture. I can't help but think about the lyrics to Bucky Covington's song "A Different World". I loved Bucky when he was on American Idol last year (don't hi-jack this thread by bashing that show!!!), and when I heard his song, I thought to myself - Dang - he is right on!!!

"A Different World"
We were born to mothers who smoked and drank
Our cribs were covered in lead based paint
No child proof lids no seat belts in cars
Rode bikes with no helmets and still here we are, still here we are
We got daddy's belt when we misbehaved
Had three TV channels you got up to change
No video games and no satellite
All we had were friends and they were outside, playin' outside

[Chorus]
It was a different life
When we were boys and girls
Not just a different time
It was a different world

School always started the same every day
The pledge of allegiance then someone would pray
Not every kid made the team when they tried
We got disappointed and that was all right, we turned out all right

[Chorus]
No bottled water, we drank from a garden hose
And every Sunday, all the stores were closed

......I highlighted in bold font the words that screamed out to me from Bucky's song in terms of a lot of the crimes we discuss. Have we, as a society, created a beast that is so mindful and impressed with his/her self that the rest of the world is disposable?? Has character and empathy taken a backseat to self-esteem and self-centerdness??

I don't think so. There have always been families where empathy and character take a back seat to self-centeredness, but I don''t find the problem to be epidemic in today's society.

In fact, I find most young people today extraordinarly caring and focused on the larger world around them - more so even than when I was a child. I think the world is getting better and better - that kids are more cared for and respected today than they were in the past - and this leads to a spriritually stronger new generation of adults.

Also - I think most of us are glad Moms smoke less these days during and after pregnancy, that we have a bit of a handle on lead-based paint and that cars have seatbelts. Additionally, I think it's a good thing that beating kids with a belt is no longer considered acceptable. I could be wrong, but that's my opinion!

 

[Lurker]

Friends and family all say that he was a well rounded child, played sports was on the honor roll, parents were very active in his life.

I wonder what the disagreement with his father was about? 15 years old and his life is pretty much over now. I hope that "disagreement" was worth (to him) wiping out his whole family. I wonder if he was on drugs?
It just seems weird that one day he's a honor roll boy scout and the next he murders 4 members of his family and then goes to stay with friends like nothing happened.

 

[kahskye]

From what we know, it may be the case..
I also have to wonder how much we don't know; as the family was very well thought of in the community; if the son was having problems, would they have kept it secret, as to not destroy their image?
It's just shocking that a 15 year old boy can murder his whole family and then go out afterwards like nothing happened. This is just one of many cases like it. These kids have no preparation for such, they weren't in the military. What is making them cold blooded killers? Where they can kill their families, then go about their lives as if nothing happened until they get caught. Is it just the desensitization of society combined with genetics and environmental causes? This case alone, there seems to be no signs of problems before this with the son (aside from him not getting along with his father)... it's just bizarre..

We don't know what was actually going through his head after he murdered his family. I might have missed this, but was it mentioned that his friend or family noticed him acting different that night? We don't know for sure that he went on like nothing happened. He for sure didn't want to stay in that house that night. I'd love to know more.

 

[Lurker]

http://www.nbc4.com/news/15232319/detail.html?dl=headlineclick

Sometimes there are no warning signs.

 

[Malini2001]

This family has experienced a shooting death by a sibling before.......


"The fatal shooting last weekend of a Baltimore County couple and two of their sons, allegedly at the hands of their eldest son, is not the first gun tragedy to have visited their extended family.

More than three decades ago, the sister of the father killed last week in Cockeysville was shot dead in an apparent accident in their Howard County home."
Much more at link.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_county/bal-md.co.browning06feb06,0,2583873.story


I would have hoped this would have made the family more proactive about keeping guns secured. Of course, we still haven't heard if and how the gun was secured. The community is trying to forgive Nicholas. Since they knew him better than we do, it sounds like there was no sign whatsoever that this would happen.

Nicholas' poor grandmother.....has lost 2 children, a daughter-in-law, and 2 grandchildren to gunshots. Actually, 3 grandchildren, if you count Nicholas.

 

[MeoW333]

That article is amazing, good find, Malini!

The community is grieving and still supporting the son who killed the family. It is beautiful in a tragic way, as even the children; they are showing empathy and forgiveness, it's not something we see everyday at all. Rarely does a community stick by the accused one. I'm could only imagine it is a close knit community. Instead of showing hatred and anger, they are showing forgiveness and offering support, it is beautiful.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/lo...-md.co.browning06feb06,0,2583873.story?page=1

 

[Reannan]

MeoW333, I totally respect you and love to read your posts, but I am not sure that I am down with that bit about supporting this guy. I haven't seen him ask the community for forgiveness yet. Forgiveness should only come after repentence. Personally, I do not forgive him for any of his murderous actions - especially those of his lilttle brothers. What must they have thought? We can lull ourselves into ignorance by thinking everyone was asleep when they died, but that is just stupid. Most of that family had to hear the gunshots that were coming their way. No one should spend their final moments on this side of life in fear. No one......except a murderer. God rest their souls, and God make him suffer for what he did; perhaps then he will feel true remorse and can repent. Until then; I hope he gets what he deserves.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Reannan,

I agree with everything that you said. I also agree with your previous post about Bucky's song...I love Bucky and his music. I bought his CD and I love the song that you mentioned. I believe it was a better world when I grew up. No, we didn't need lead in the paint and I use a seat belt but things were easier back in my youth. The world wasn't coming apart at the seams then. We played outside all weekend and after school. I used to ride my bike to my girlfriend's house who lived a couple miles away. We played baseball with the other kids in my little country community, made playhouses out of a calf pen and small chicken house...went to church every Sunday... just had good innocent fun without all of the expensive tech stuff that keeps kids tied to the TV playing games these days.

My mom used a switch on my sister and me....not often but when she did we deserved it and remembered it. I call it descipline with love...not beating.
I wanted my way in my teens but I didn't have the attitude that "I have it coming so give it to me." Nowdays kids think they are so darn entitled to everything. Look at the parking lots at the high schools in your town. Most of the kids who have a car don't drive junkers...they have pretty new cars. They have everything that mom and dad can give them and more. Parents want their kids to have everything that they didn't have....MISTAKE. They don't learn responsibility that way.

I don't know anymore about this boy then anyone else does but something is haywire when a kids will murder his whole family. I don't ever remember anything like that happening in my youth. No one quit school either unless they were pregnant! It just wasn't done. We respected our teachers or acted like we did anyway. I've been in Middle School classrooms and High School classrooms now and it is not that way in many classrooms. It is a totally different world now and we are paying the price.

I don't know about anyone else but if they were to let this kid out on bail I WOULD NOT want him living in my home or even in the same neighborhood as me.

 

[MeoW333]

I was looking at it objectively, marveling at the closeness of the community, when i mention their support. I've not seen it before in cases like this.

 

[Reannan]

I was looking at it objectively, marveling at the closeness of the community, when i mention their support. I've not seen it before in cases like this.

Meow, you are such a good soul, and I think you seek the good in everyone. I admire that. :blowkiss: I recall the Amish school shootings, and the way the Amish community immediately forgave the perpetrator that murdered thier children. I guess I am just jaded, because I cannot imagine being that forgiving. AS a Christian, I, myself have to ask God for forgiveness, and he does so only after I repent. Without some measure of responsibility on the part of the guilty, the entire concept of forgiveness becomes a blank check to run up astronomical cosmic forgiveness tabs. Automatic forgiveness allows the guilty to do anything they want with no holds barred because they will just be forgiven. Scary stuff IMHO. John Couey and Joseph Duncan are two others that I cannot find it in my heart to forgive. I don't feel that I have to, however, because they are not one damned bit sorry or repentent for what they did. I honestly don't know how I would feel about those two monsters if they did truly, become repentent and asked for forgiveness. I am not sure I could forgive them, and that makes me a lousy, hypocritical Christian. :bang: Oh well....it is probably a mute point - Joseph Duncan and John Couey are not likely to challenge me with forgiveness. The kid in this thread......I agree with you Mewo; there is hope for him, but thus far, I am not convinced he is sorry.

 

[Marie]

http://www.nbc4.com/news/15232319/detail.html?dl=headlineclick

Sometimes there are no warning signs.

I found this information in the article interesting:

Quote from Paul A. Mones, a defense attorney for children accused of killing their parents, who wrote a book about his work called 'When a Child Kills.'

Mones said slayings are typically motivated by one of two factors: 'extreme family dysfunction in terms of physical and emotional abuse, or severe mental health issues that pervade the family, whether it's the perpetrator or the parents or themselves.

 

[Bilas]

I think if we're looking for the "why" it may be found in the classic overachiever syndrome. I think this kid may have felt as if nothing he did would ever be good enough and he couldn't live up to what his family expected of him.

Please...You sound like the parents made him feel bad so he killed them all?? Lets think about this maybe he just wanted to kill them? We don't know maybe he was planning to kill them for a while now. There is obviously something wrong and I am too glad they don't execute children but I don't want this to get out either! Those boys that were killed had there whole lives a mother and father killed. He should be locked up for his whole life! But because people will say he was this or that he will probably get out!

what a waste!